dalsingh101 Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Obama's divali message: I got this from thelanagrhall.com site. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Well at least he has some diplomacy skills, something which was obvioulsy non-existant in the previous monkey brained multiple war starting bufoon. Now all Obama has to do is get decent PR agent, if you are going to reach out to specific communities, at least spend more than 30 seconds researching the facts and learning how to pronounce the names! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted October 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Given the prevalent supercillious attitude towards black Africans commonly manifested by Sikhs from Africa, I'm happy he's made any effort at all Shaheediyan. This is two way thing. Unless we want to be some inward looking, insular community, we need to make bridges towards other people. By that I don't mean sucking up to Anglos (which enough of our brothers and sisters have/are doing to death already). But fostering good relationships with others who aren't out to use and abuse or convert us. I think their is much we can share and learn from the African American community myself. Many of their own prominent wrtists/directors have shown an open willingness to promote the Sikh image through their media, which in turn gets shown to the wider public. Think Puff Daddy showing Sikh images in his videos, Spike Lee, Jay Z's appreciation of Panjabi music etc. etc. This is more than the WASPS have ever done for us. We need to recognise potential friends when we see them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 "Think Puff Daddy showing Sikh images in his videos, Spike Lee, Jay Z's appreciation of Panjabi music etc." Great, Sikhs promoted through trash culture, perfect. Talking about fostering good relations, you could stop by not refering to the Anglo community in the way yo have done thus far in many threads. Most of them are nice and tolerant people believe it or not, otherwise you wouldn't be enjoying all this freedom of speech and endless other benefits that I am sure you thank Parmatma for everyday in your ardaas. Anyway, I wasn't having a go at Obama, although thus far, he hasn't proved to be anything special, not to me anyway. What he has done is bog standard politcal PR, which the likes of Gordon Brown etc have been doing for years, to a much higher and believable level. Just saying its nothing to get excited about. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted October 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 (edited) See that very attitude is what I have heard from many Pakistanis about Panjabi Sikh culture. That it is all base, unsophisticated and trash. What is it that you want? Sikhs to be represented as poncey "I say old chap" types? Without getting judgemental about another people's culture (who have done us NO harm btw), I still say that some of this community have done much to extend a respectful hand to Sikhs. My point was that instead of keeping us off the radar (which Anglos generally do, whether you like to admit it or not). These people have recognised us to an extent and that without any obvious motive. I still see racism regularly. So you can keep a hold of this whole notion of being eternally grateful to yourself. Yes, many are good people, many aren't. If you're trying to deny there is strong rightward shift in the land then you must be living in cloud cuckoo land. But I have to ask you: Are you they type that thinks 'all is well if I am well'? Because one thing I find sad is how some brothers constantly seem to try and negate the negativity of white people around them. It is plain commonsense and prudent to be aware of it and also discuss it amongst ourselves. Not take an ostrich stance towards it (i.e. bury head in the sand). Within the Anglo community there has also (for centuries) been a strong element of white supremacism, which wants to dominate all aspects of the world, beit in terms of culture, military and politics or resources. It is this insidious force that I talk of, not Joe Blogs down the street looking for a pint and pie after work. You are right. But i have to admit, him just simply not being Dubya Bush is enough to keep me a bit happy right now. But yes, we have yet to see what happens in the long run. Do you not feel however, that he has done much to remove that 'pressure cooker' feeling Bush created? Another point is that his election alone is somewhat of a hindrence to the growth of the far right here. If they ever get ugly (or uglier), it is nice to know there is someone in the Whitehouse who probably would have some degree of concern over the issue. If it was a white man like Bush, he would most definitely either turn a blind eye or do too little too late. Edited October 21, 2009 by dalsingh101 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matheen Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Given the prevalent supercillious attitude towards black Africans commonly manifested by Sikhs from Africa, I'm happy he's made any effort at all Shaheediyan. True, at least he mentioned why Sikhs celebrate that day. Sikhs in the land of Obama's father are probably the richest community yet still fall under the HIndu Council of Kenya and most have no clue about Sikhi at all. You're right about the attitudes to 'kaley' too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted October 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 True, at least he mentioned why Sikhs celebrate that day. Sikhs in the land of Obama's father are probably the richest community yet still fall under the HIndu Council of Kenya and most have no clue about Sikhi at all. You're right about the attitudes to 'kaley' too. Let's not forget the seriously pointy turbans either! Unforgivable. lol 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSD1 Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 After listening to that mini-speech I think we should remember all those sikhs who were/are still imprisoned for practicing sikhi and fighting to protect our history. May there sacrifices be worth it in the end. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zulu Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Let's not forget the seriously pointy turbans either! Unforgivable. lol Never diss the chung! the chung makes the pugh! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zulu Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Sikhs in the land of Obama's father are probably the richest community Indeed we are. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsingh96 Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 "Think Puff Daddy showing Sikh images in his videos, Spike Lee, Jay Z's appreciation of Panjabi music etc." Great, Sikhs promoted through trash culture, perfect. People say the same about Jatt culture. Spike Lee is widely accepted as a very good movie director/maker. I loved how he showed racism to Sikhs in his movie, Inside Man. If that is trash culture what do you want, Sikhs portrayed in Operas? Will that get the word out? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 I was talking about Jay Z and P Daddy - Hip Hop culture. As you say Spike Lee has made some efforts to address real issues like Racism in his films, apologies if I hurt the feelings of his fans. Lol, I didn't know the only alternative to Hip Hop was Opera. Re Jatt Culture, what is that exactly, may be you would care to explain? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsingh96 Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 Although Jay Z and Puff Daddy both have their origins in the early 1990's really hard/rough rap, their music now extends much broader and is well known in the pop culture as well. Having recognition from them, in their music videos or other things, is excellent, what other medium would show Sikhs in a positive light to hundreds of thousands of people? My comparison with the jatt culture was just that people see it as trashy, unsophisticated, unintelligent and unmoral with all the drinking/swearing/dancing/etc. Why do you say hiphop culture is trash? Drugs/drinking, disrespect for women, swearing, materialism, pride, etc etc, Fair enough. What culture is not trash then? If you put on a negative lens its not hard to see negatives. In the same way one can view Punjabi culture as very negative, i.e. drugs/drinking, disrespect for women (spousal abuse), swearing (who's not an elder say ma di ....., or pain di .....), materialism (don't even need to show example of that lol), pride (oh mr sandhu's son is a doctor while mine should be as well!). Lets try to look at the positives 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 (edited) IMHO Pop culture and Hip Hop is trash both, for the reasons you stated. Same goes for supposed 'Jatt Culture' although I would not use the stereotype myself - esp today - that sort of trash behaviour is seen across all jaathaan paathan. Anyways, you lead on to a good point - MTV culture has trashed the Sikh youth of Punjab and Delhi as I have seen with my own eyes, any sign of the valued and respectful Indian traditions i.e. modesty, respect for elders, seva etc are fast disappearing - the same is true all over the world, MTV has long arms... The Pop heroes you mention are responsible for creating and promoting this this manmati, panj vaikaari culture to high extremes across the world. To the point that I have seen many people from across various faith streams bin the traditional dharm based names and name their kids after hip hop stars etc. I understand what you say about lokking at the positives, but trash is trash - you can put all the flowers on it you like, it will still stink. Just cos someone is famous, doesn't mean anything if they promote a Sikh. What is more important is 'association'. If associations of these people are negative, then so will be the type of promotion. Anyway thats my view, you are obviously entitled to yours. Our Guru Sahibans royal Darbar and rvaaj were both high end - they practiced and introduced only the best in terms of rvaaj and art forms (in every possible field) in order to fill our intellectual and well as spiritual hunger. Todays Darbar is very, very different Edited October 24, 2009 by shaheediyan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekhane'ch Jannat Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 Has Sikhi become a consumer item that it needs to be promoted? Have we sunk so low that it is being considered to promote a pure teaching through the filth of hip-hop. This is not anything to do with culture but an issue of purity. Do you take a religious holy book into a toilet to read. Hip-Hop culture uses the word admin cut for women and promotes such things as get rich or die trying. Such filthy ideas are incompatible with the religious life. I am not sure whether people understand purity, ideological purity. Certain ideas that are behind the words of the Hiphop artists are corrosive and anaethema to holy ideals of prayer renunciation and effort. In fact they are in direct contradiction to holy ideals. By using this black tide of crap as a vehicle to promote Sikhi is equivalent to the annhilation of the underpinnings of Sikhi, and bascially all that is left is the image or product of Sikhi that is left to be 'promoted'. What is there to be proud of when a snake like Obama mentions Sikhs. I regard it as an insult when the devil praises Sikhi. Here is poem by Zulu Shaman Credo Mutwa: An actor walks upon the floodlit stage of life wearing a mask of an angel beneath a demon's gown. Pretence smiles upon the crowded hall of life holding out hope as bright as it is false. Son of a woman in whose veins flows the blood of ancient Ireland and dark Africa’s plains. You are Obama, nick-named the standing king You are Barack, oh, son born to deceive The suffering hoards of Africa look up to you, See a black saviour where nought but a Judas strides. An entrapper of nations, bringer of dismal war Behind the robes and the nylon wings of hope Oh, may those who look upon you, see you as you are. May those who hope in you behold you as you be A prince deceitful to bring down Africa’s shrines A siren who leads Africa’s ships onto rocks of obliteration. Your rule my lord will not be one of peace Your reign my king will not be one of smiles Even as we speak in caves both dark and dank Enraged fanatics plot your dark demise They will put around your head a bloodwet martyr’s crown. Oh black Kennedy following the one before May God forgive thee and thy fiery spouse As you walk in silence from the stage of life Barack Obama, blessed son, Oh standing king. Credo Mutwa 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsingh96 Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 The promotion that we were speaking about, at least me, was that of awareness of who Sikhs are. it is purely an identity concept nothing more. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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