Shyam From Dasam Bani

[Mr Sardar]

Would just like to continue from a convo posted in questions answers of x and y

A friend of mine consulted santhiya teacher of damdami taksal who has learnt off mahapurkhs himself in regards to who is poet shyam.

ਅਬਿ ਚਉਬੀਸ ਉਚਰੌ ਅਵਤਾਰਾ। ਜਿਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਤਿਨ ਕਾ ਲਖਾ ਅਖਾਰਾ। ਸੁਨੀਅਹੁ ਸੰਤ ਸਬੈ ਚਿਤ ਲਾਈ। ਬਰਨਤ ਸ੍ਯਾਮ ਜਥਾ ਮਤਿ ਭਾਈ। ੧। {੨੪ ਅਵਤਾਰ ੧}

Abe Chaubees Uchro Avtaara Jeh Bid Tin Kaa Lkhaa Akhaara Suneeaho Sunt Sbai Chitt Laaee Burnutt Shyam Jathaa Mutt Bhaaee 1

Now I describe the twenty-four incarnations as their play was played. All saints are to focus on the story and listen. Shyam (poet) is stating them according to his own understanding. 1.

ਮਧੁ ਕੀਟਭ ਕੇ ਬਧ ਨਮਿਤ ਜਾ ਦਿਨ ਜਗਤ ਮੁਰਾਰਿ। ਸੁ ਕਬਿ ਸ੍ਯਾਮ ਤਾ ਕੋ ਕਹੈ ਚੌਦਸਵੋ ਅਵਤਾਰ। ੪। {੨੪ ਅਵਤਾਰ ੩੭}

Mud Keetub Kay Badh Namitt Jaa Dinn Jagat Muraar. So Kub Syaam Taa Ko Khai Chadusvo Avtaar 4 {24 Avtar, 37}

When Vishnu prepares to kill Mudh and Keetab demons, Poet Shyam calls him the 14th incarnation. 4.

Sri Dasam Granth Bani vichoon Shyam koun hai?

vjkkvjkf ji

i can explain u its not aukha

a person who doesnt have knowledge about bani grammer and pronounciation

will get easily confused

dat its a kavi shayam at da time of dasam pita ji

we have dats third person and first person

first person is dasam pita ji

and third person not kavi shayam

but da avtar kirshan himself

guru gobind singh ji take dis katha frm another granth

a person an author or a good kave a good vidvaan never ever change da theme or katha when he is coping frm another granth

bcoz they dont have knowledge of GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI

HANJI ITS NOT KAVI SHYAM

GURU JI is telling dat not kavi shayam [ krishan ] himself calls da 14th incaranetion

according to da mesege u send it writen dat

When Vishnu prepares to kill Mudh and Keetab demons, Poet Shyam calls him the 14th incarnation. 4.

its very deep knodledge and interesting

deezz stupid persons have nothing knowledge about grammer ,,pingal ,,vedant ..chhanda bandee

nd just doing wrong arth of guru jis bani

they dont even beleive in jaap sahib so just forget them keep ur shardha on guru jis bani

do ur naam simram

do ur bani kunth

atlest u shud done ur panj granthi kunth

deezz stupid persons have nothing knowledge about grammer ,,pingal ,,vedant ..chhanda bandee

nd just doing wrong arth of guru jis bani

they dont even beleive in jaap sahib so just forget them keep ur shardha on guru jis bani

do ur naam simram

do ur bani kunth

atlest u shud done ur panj granthi kunth

do abhiyaas of bani

go on reading go on reading go on go on ......

forget dis stupid jokerzz

then just look wat happen even wid guru jis kirpa

u dont have to tell any body to do amrit chhak or to took baanna or read bani or beleive in dasan granth its will happen just on ur looking on ur walking

pp will watch u and get inspired

go on doing jaap of bani

[GuptSingh1699]

I am not fooled one bit by that. Why? Because I have read Krishan Avtar.

When Gurbani says KAHAI NANAK, its third person, isn't that the Guru Sahibaan?

You have a flawed logic.

a person an author or a good kave a good vidvaan never ever change da theme or katha when he is coping frm another granth

What other Granth written by Krishan are you talking about? If you had enough Gyaan, you would know that it is based on Bhagwat Puran. I would rather urge you to read Bhagwat Puran itself that Poet Shyams edited translations of it. You guys really love third party stuff, don't ya?

Edited December 22, 2009 by GuptSingh1699

[singh2]

I am not fooled one bit by that. Why? Because I have read Krishan Avtar.

When Gurbani says KAHAI NANAK, its third person, isn't that the Guru Sahibaan?

You have a flawed logic.

What other Granth written by Krishan are you talking about? If you had enough Gyaan, you would know that it is based on Bhagwat Puran. I would rather urge you to read Bhagwat Puran itself that Poet Shyams edited translations of it. You guys really love third party stuff, don't ya?

I have two questions

1)Can you tell us who was poet shyam if not Guru ji

2) You claim having read krishna avtar.When you say krishna avtar is translated from bhagwat puranas. What does it exactly mean

[GuptSingh1699]

1)Can you tell us who was poet shyam if not Guru ji

He was some person. I am not interested in his life as he wrote anti Gurmat stuff.

2) You claim having read krishna avtar.When you say krishna avtar is translated from bhagwat puranas. What does it exactly mean

It means what it means. translation = translation. What part of that word is difficult to understand?

trans⋅la⋅tion

  /trænsˈleɪʃən, trænz-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [trans-ley-shuhn, tranz-] Show IPA

–noun

1. the rendering of something into another language or into one's own from another language.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/translation

[singh2]

He was some person. I am not interested in his life as he wrote anti Gurmat stuff.

That is a lie. We are discussing poet shyam in context of krishna avtar. Show us where he wrote anti gurmat?

It means what it means. translation = translation. What part of that word is difficult to understand?

A total lie.show us the following in Hindu granth

ਧੰਨ ਜੀਓ ਤਿਹ ਕੋ ਜਗ ਮੈ ਮੁਖ ਤੇ ਹਰਿ ਚਿੱਤ ਮੈ ਜੁਧੁ ਬਿਚਾਰੈ ॥ ਦੇਹ ਅਨਿੱਤ ਨ ਨਿੱਤ ਰਹੈ ਜਸੁ ਨਾਵ ਚੜੈ ਭਵਸਾਗਰ ਤਾਰੈ ॥

धंन जीओ तिह को जग मै मुख ते हरि चि्त मै जुधु बिचारै ॥ देह अनि्त न नि्त रहै जसु नाव चड़ै भवसागर तारै ॥

Bravo to the soul of that person, who remembers the Lord through his mouth and reflects in his mind about the war of righteousness; who considers this body the war of righteousness; who considers this body as transient, ascends the boat of Lords` praise and ferries across the dreadful ocean of the world;

[GuptSingh1699]

That is a lie. We are discussing poet shyam in context of krishna avtar. Show us where he wrote anti gurmat?

Poet Shyam is writer of Dasam Granth. He worshipped 4 armed Mahakaal. That is an attack on MOOL MANTAR - essence of Guru Granth Sahib Ji - itself. Mool Mantar says Waheguru is Ajooni. It says Waheguru is Akaal Moorat... Then from where do these 4 arms, anklets, etc come from? The poet worshipping a four armed creation is already enough anti Gurmat stuff.

A total lie.show us the following in Hindu granth

ਧੰਨ ਜੀਓ ਤਿਹ ਕੋ ਜਗ ਮੈ ਮੁਖ ਤੇ ਹਰਿ ਚਿੱਤ ਮੈ ਜੁਧੁ ਬਿਚਾਰੈ ॥ ਦੇਹ ਅਨਿੱਤ ਨ ਨਿੱਤ ਰਹੈ ਜਸੁ ਨਾਵ ਚੜੈ ਭਵਸਾਗਰ ਤਾਰੈ ॥

धंन जीओ तिह को जग मै मुख ते हरि चि्त मै जुधु बिचारै ॥ देह अनि्त न नि्त रहै जसु नाव चड़ै भवसागर तारै ॥

Bravo to the soul of that person, who remembers the Lord through his mouth and reflects in his mind about the war of righteousness; who considers this body the war of righteousness; who considers this body as transient, ascends the boat of Lords` praise and ferries across the dreadful ocean of the world;

It is BASED on Bhagwat Puran. Read it, understand it and you will see! The Bible says that one shouldn't indulge in adultery, this doesn't mean that it is Gurbani, same way few things in accordance to Gurmat doesn't make it Gurbani.

[singh2]

Poet Shyam is writer of Dasam Granth. He worshipped 4 armed Mahakaal. That is an attack on MOOL MANTAR - essence of Guru Granth Sahib Ji - itself. Mool Mantar says Waheguru is Ajooni. It says Waheguru is Akaal Moorat... Then from where do these 4 arms, anklets, etc come from? The poet worshipping a four armed creation is already enough anti Gurmat stuff.

This is not the answer to my question. You wrote that poet shyam wrote anti gurmat in Krishna avtar. I asked what is that anti gurmat? PLease show me by quoting verses from Chaubis avtar. Be specific and not beat about bush.

It is BASED on Bhagwat Puran. Read it, understand it and you will see! The Bible says that one shouldn't indulge in adultery, this doesn't mean that it is Gurbani, same way few things in accordance to Gurmat doesn't make it Gurbani.

That is why i am asking you " Show this verse in Bhagwat purana." Please show this.

I will give tens more and show if those are in Bhagwat puranas? Lies would not work here.

Edited December 23, 2009 by singh2

[Balbir Singh]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear all!

This is a good topic.

Let us put one example of a Vaak from Dasam Granth where the word 'Sayaam' occurs. We can discuss this if it is about Sayaam, Vishnu or a poet whose name is Shyaam.

This is what I found.

ਏਕ ਕੀਏ ਸੁ ਰਥੀ ਬਿਰਥੀ ਅਰਿ ਏਕਨ ਕੋ ਬਹੁ ਘਾਇਨ ਘਾਯੋ ॥ ਸਯਾਮ ਭਨੈ ਸਭ ਸੂਰਨ ਕੋ ਇਹ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਹਲੀ ਪੁਰਖਤ ਦਿਖਾਯੋ ॥੧੮੩੫॥

एक कीए सु रथी बिरथी अरि एकन को बहु घाइन घायो ॥ सयाम भनै सभ सूरन को इह भांति हली पुरखत दिखायो ॥१८३५॥

He deprived many chariot-riders of their chariots and wounded ,many of them. The poet Shyam says that in this way Balram exhibited his bravery to the warriours.1835.

I feel the above translation is misleading. The word poet is not used here. Why the translator has translated it as the poet Shyaam?

*****

Anti Dasam Granth lobby has found a good excuse. They argue that they read and mention the translations on stages. They should not be blamed if translations are wrong.

My curiosity is to know. Why they preach translations from others? When will they learn the original experience of the reverend Guru?

Balbir Singh

[Balbir Singh]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear all!

Here is the second example.

ਚਕ੍ਰ ਸੰਭਾਰ ਮੁਰਾਰ ਤਬੈ ਕਰ ਜੁੱਧ ਕੇ ਹੇਤ ਚਲਯੋ ਬਲ ਧਾਰਯੋ ॥ ਰੇ ਨ੍ਰਿਪ ਤੂ ਭਿਰ ਮੋ ਸੰਗ ਆਇ ਕੈ ਰਾਮ ਭਨੈ ਇਮ ਸਯਾਮ ਪੁਕਾਰਯੋ ॥੧੮੫੩॥

चक्र स्मभार मुरार तबै कर जुध के हेत चलयो बल धारयो ॥ रे न्रिप तू भिर मो संग आइ कै राम भनै इम सयाम पुकारयो ॥१८५३॥

Then Krishna moved forward for fighting, holding his discus; according to the poet Ram, he began to challenge the king for fighting.1853.

Can someone please explain it? Why the word poet is added in the above translation?

Balbir Singh

[singh2]

1)I want midget scholar of kala afghana sect to show me where did poet shyam wrote anti Gurmat.

the refrenced quote is given below again

ਅਬਿ ਚਉਬੀਸ ਉਚਰੌ ਅਵਤਾਰਾ।

ਜਿਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਤਿਨ ਕਾ ਲਖਾ ਅਖਾਰਾ।

ਸੁਨੀਅਹੁ ਸੰਤ ਸਬੈ ਚਿਤ ਲਾਈ।

ਬਰਨਤ ਸ੍ਯਾਮ ਜਥਾ ਮਤਿ ਭਾਈ। ੧। {੨੪ ਅਵਤਾਰ ੧}

Abe Chaubees Uchro Avtaara

Jeh Bid Tin Kaa Lkhaa Akhaara

Suneeaho Sunt Sbai Chitt Laaee

Burnutt Shyam Jathaa Mutt Bhaaee 1

Now I describe the twenty-four incarnations

as their play was played.

All saints are to focus on the story and listen.

Shyam (poet) is stating them according to his own understanding. 1.

2)Balbir ji has given two verses from krishna avtar.Can this kala afghna sect midget scholar show those in Purana.

[Balbir Singh]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear all!

This is the example number three.

ਅਬਿ ਚਉਬੀਸ ਉਚਰੌ ਅਵਤਾਰਾ। ਜਿਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਤਿਨ ਕਾ ਲਖਾ ਅਖਾਰਾ। ਸੁਨੀਅਹੁ ਸੰਤ ਸਬੈ ਚਿਤ ਲਾਈ। ਬਰਨਤ ਸ੍ਯਾਮ ਜਥਾ ਮਤਿ ਭਾਈ। ੧। {੨੪ ਅਵਤਾਰ ੧}

Abi Chaubees Uchro Avtaaraa. Jih Bidhi Tin Kaa Lakhaa Akhaara. Suneeahu Sant Sabai Chit Laaee. Barnat Sayaam Jathaa Mati Bhaaee. 1. {24 Avtaar 1}

From now twenty-four are verbalized Incarnations. The way, their play is observed. Listen! All Saints! Intently. Explanation of Sayaam accordingly the understanding pleases.

Please let all know. Where is the word 'poet' mentioned in the above Vaak?

*****

The above Vaak of 'Chaubees Avtaar' is in the beginning. Chaubees Avtaar is about the twenty-four incarnations of Vishnu Jee. Sayaam is one of the attributes of Vishnu Jee.

Experiencing God as Sustainer is Vishnu. HE maintains all in the cosmos remaining hidden. That is why HIS and all HIS Avtaars Attributes are Sayaam.

O! Idiot Mind! Better pray for Darshan of Sayaam when you get a pause in hating Hindu Vocabulary.

Please spare some time and listen. The reverend Gurus are singing the beauty of Sayaam also right now. When will you?

Balbir Singh

[singh2]

Balbir ji

Let kala afghna sect reply to it first. The purpose of this thread is not what you are trying to tell us.

We can discuss your view point afterwards.

[Balbir Singh]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear all!

This is the example number four.

ਮਧੁ ਕੀਟਭ ਕੇ ਬਧ ਨਮਿਤ ਜਾ ਦਿਨ ਜਗਤ ਮੁਰਾਰਿ। ਸੁ ਕਬਿ ਸ੍ਯਾਮ ਤਾ ਕੋ ਕਹੈ ਚੌਦਸਵੋ ਅਵਤਾਰ। ੪। {੨੪ ਅਵਤਾਰ ੩੭}

Madhu Keetabh Ke Badh Namit Jaa Din Jagat Muraari. Su Kabi Sayaam Taa Ko Khai Chadusvo Avtaar 4 {24 Avtaar 37}

For Madhu, Keetabh's slay that day Jagat Muraari. Him poets, call Sayaam to you the fourteenth incarnation.

Please explain this. Poets sing praising Godly Attributes of Raam, Sayaam. The reverend Gurus have also done the same. Why some understand, it is the poem from a poet whose name is Raam or Shyaam?

Balbir Singh

[singh2]

Question to kala afghana sect again

1) Show us where poet shyam is writing anti gurmat. Cite the verse.

2) Show the cited verses in Bhagwat puranas as claimed by you.

[GuptSingh1699]

Inder, Read Bhagwat Puran and you will know.

Anti Gurmat stuff? Does god incarnate?

ਤਬ ਤਬ ਦੇਹ ਧਰਤ ਅਵਤਾਰਾ ॥

तब तब देह धरत अवतारा ॥

Then the Lord manifests himself in physical form;

Page 413 from Dasam Granth. Waheguru does not come nor go according to Gurmat.

Balbir, open chariter 110.

Beer Douhoo Diss Kay Kub Shyam Mukh Ouppar Dhaalan Ko Dhurr Jootay| Baan

Kmaan Dhray Muthsaan Aaparmaan Juaanan Kay Run Shootay| ...| 11|

Poet Shyam says, warriors from both sides were dueling with others using their shields.

Strong warriors were firing countless arrows with their bows. … 11.

He clearly says KUB SHYAM. Kub means Poet and SHYAM is SHYAM. Enemy of wisdom... Don't you see that?

[Matheen]

Anti Gurmat stuff? Does god incarnate?

ਤਬ ਤਬ ਦੇਹ ਧਰਤ ਅਵਤਾਰਾ ॥

तब तब देह धरत अवतारा ॥

Then the Lord manifests himself in physical form;

Page 413 from Dasam Granth. Waheguru does not come nor go according to Gurmat.

Ang 968, Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Satto & Balwand speak of Guru Sahib:

ਕਲਿ ਵਿਚਿ ਧੂ ਅੰਧਾਰੁ ਸਾ ਚੜਿਆ ਰੈ ਭਾਣੁ ॥

कलि विचि धू अंधारु सा चड़िआ रै भाणु ॥

Kal vicẖ ḏẖū anḏẖār sā cẖaṛi▫ā rai bẖāṇ.

In this Dark Age of Kali Yuga, there was only pitch darkness. Then, He rose like the sun to illuminate the darkness.

ਸਤਹੁ ਖੇਤੁ ਜਮਾਇਓ ਸਤਹੁ ਛਾਵਾਣੁ ॥

सतहु खेतु जमाइओ सतहु छावाणु ॥

Saṯahu kẖeṯ jamā▫i▫o saṯahu cẖẖāvāṇ.

He farms the field of Truth, and spreads out the canopy of Truth.

ਨਿਤ ਰਸੋਈ ਤੇਰੀਐ ਘਿਉ ਮੈਦਾ ਖਾਣੁ ॥

नित रसोई तेरीऐ घिउ मैदा खाणु ॥

Niṯ raso▫ī ṯerī▫ai gẖi▫o maiḏā kẖāṇ.

Your kitchen always has ghee and flour to eat.

ਚਾਰੇ ਕੁੰਡਾਂ ਸੁਝੀਓਸੁ ਮਨ ਮਹਿ ਸਬਦੁ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ॥

चारे कुंडां सुझीओसु मन महि सबदु परवाणु ॥

Cẖāre kundāʼn sujẖī▫os man mėh sabaḏ parvāṇ.

You understand the four corners of the universe; in your mind, the Word of the Shabad is approved and supreme.

ਆਵਾ ਗਉਣੁ ਨਿਵਾਰਿਓ ਕਰਿ ਨਦਰਿ ਨੀਸਾਣੁ ॥

आवा गउणु निवारिओ करि नदरि नीसाणु ॥

Āvā ga▫oṇ nivāri▫o kar naḏar nīsāṇ.

You eliminate the comings and goings of reincarnation, and bestow the insignia of Your Glance of Grace.

ਅਉਤਰਿਆ ਅਉਤਾਰੁ ਲੈ ਸੋ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਸੁਜਾਣੁ ॥

अउतरिआ अउतारु लै सो पुरखु सुजाणु ॥

A▫uṯri▫ā a▫uṯār lai so purakẖ sujāṇ.

You are the Avataar, the Incarnation of the all-knowing Primal Lord.

Many more pankitis saying the same thing....

Edited December 24, 2009 by Matheen

[GuptSingh1699]

Again DeraWadi translations.

What about:

Ang 759

Satgur Mera Sadaa Sadaa

Na Ave Na Jaye

Oh Abhinaasi Purakh Hai

Sabh Mein Reha Samaaye

My True Guru, forever and ever,

does not come and go.

He is the Imperishable Creator Lord;

He is permeating and pervading among all.

BTW, You can understand that without translations as well.

[singh2]

Inder, Read Bhagwat Puran and you will know.

Anti Gurmat stuff? Does god incarnate?

ਤਬ ਤਬ ਦੇਹ ਧਰਤ ਅਵਤਾਰਾ ॥

तब तब देह धरत अवतारा ॥

Then the Lord manifests himself in physical form;

Page 413 from Dasam Granth. Waheguru does not come nor go according to Gurmat.

I have read Bhagwat purana and that is the reason i am asking you that this is not there in Bhagwat purana.

Show me where is it in Bhagwat Purana?

Edited December 25, 2009 by singh2

[GuptSingh1699]

Read it and you'll see.

[singh2]

Read it and you'll see.

Again same nonsense.It is not there.I challenge you to show me. This is not from Bhagwat Purana. You liars of kala afghna sect.You lie here.

[singh2]

Again DeraWadi translations.

What about:

Ang 759

Satgur Mera Sadaa Sadaa

Na Ave Na Jaye

Oh Abhinaasi Purakh Hai

Sabh Mein Reha Samaaye

My True Guru, forever and ever,

does not come and go.

He is the Imperishable Creator Lord;

He is permeating and pervading among all.

BTW, You can understand that without translations as well.

Kala afghna sect are closed mind bigots.They have no comprehension of gurmat.

There is no bar on akal purakh. he can do anything he likes.

ਪ੍ਰਭ ਥੰਭ ਤੇ ਨਿਕਸੇ ਕੈ ਬਿਸਥਾਰ ॥

parabh thambh tay niksay kai bisthaar.

So God emerged out of the pillar, and assumed a mighty form.

ਹਰਨਾਖਸੁ ਛੇਦਿਓ ਨਖ ਬਿਦਾਰ ॥੪॥

harnaakhas chhaydi-o nakh bidaar. ||4||

He killed Harnaakhash, tearing him apart with his nails. ||4||

ਓਇ ਪਰਮ ਪੁਰਖ ਦੇਵਾਧਿ ਦੇਵ ॥

o-ay param purakh dayvaaDh dayv.

The Supreme Lord God, the Divinity of the divine,

ਭਗਤਿ ਹੇਤਿ ਨਰਸਿੰਘ ਭੇਵ

bhagat hayt narsingh bhayv.

for the sake of His devotee, assumed the form of the man-lion

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Do you guys want proper arths of that NarSingh shabad too? If yes, we can give that too. You people haven't been able to digest garur chrrai, don't know how you will digest narsingh ones. Tuahadaa taa kam kharab hee aaa. Regarding var of satta and balvand, we will give proper arths in future. You guys cry about why so and so oppose bhagat bani, well you know what? Maybe you guys are the problem? You people don't accept proper arths, try to force karamkaandi arths down people's throats and then ask them to accept karamkaandi arths? This will never happen. Could you show me proof where Ghagga opposed bhagat bani? Last time I heard him, he was doing katha from it. I don't know what you liars are on about. By the way, singh isn't lying if he says Krishan Avtar is from bhagvat puran, you should read Krishan Avtar and also bhagvat puran and see. Other than that, bring live talk and we will prove you wrong there.

Edited December 25, 2009 by The Khalsa Fauj

[singh2]

Do you guys want proper arths of that NarSingh shabad too? If yes, we can give that too. You people haven't been able to digest garur chrrai, don't know how you will digest narsingh ones. Tuahadaa taa kam kharab hee aaa. Regarding var of satta and balvand, we will give proper arths in future. You guys cry about why so and so oppose bhagat bani, well you know what? Maybe you guys are the problem? You people don't accept proper arths, try to force karamkaandi arths down people's throats and then ask them to accept karamkaandi arths? This will never happen. Could you show me proof where Ghagga opposed bhagat bani? Last time I heard him, he was doing katha from it. I don't know what you liars are on about. By the way, sunny isn't lying if he says Krishan Avtar is from bhagvat puran, you should read Krishan Avtar and also bhagvat puran and see. Other than that, bring live talk and we will prove you wrong there.

Who is sunny? i am missing something.

Again my challenge

1) The quoted line is not from Bhagawat purana. Show me or shut up.

You are just beating about the bush.

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Who is sunny? i am missing something.

Again my challenge

1) The quoted line is not from Bhagawat purana. Show me or shut up.

You are just beating about the bush.

Sunny is weather. Weather was sunny today in some area. Other areas it was snowing. Where is the bush that I am beating about? Dasam Granth is a bush? Oh bring live talk and make those statements so I can expose you and prove DG wrong. Please come if you got game. DG is a bush. So many hideous and anti-Gurmat things hidden in there.

[Matheen]

Again DeraWadi translations.

What about:

Ang 759

Satgur Mera Sadaa Sadaa

Na Ave Na Jaye

Oh Abhinaasi Purakh Hai

Sabh Mein Reha Samaaye

My True Guru, forever and ever,

does not come and go.

He is the Imperishable Creator Lord;

He is permeating and pervading among all.

BTW, You can understand that without translations as well.

I was hoping you would post that in relpy. Just wanted to show that it is very easy to take one line out of context and miss the point.

The fact that Guru Sahib was a pooran avtar doesn't contradict the fact that Akaal Purkh isn't born and doesn't die. The same goes for our Atmas.

We have to start thinking on the atmic level when dealing with Gurbani, not just the black & white physical level. There is no need to twist arths into nonsensical meanings just so they fit in with our understanding. That is manmat. Read Gurbani first before deciding what is Gurmat and what is Manmat. Some people build an image in their minds of what Gurbani should say, then twist it to fit in with their mat, rather than changing themselves to follow Gurbani.

Sorry for taking this thread off-topic, carry on.