Shere Panjab Magazine (1998/1999?)

[dalsingh101]

Saw this laying around a friend's place yesterday and grabbed it. Haven't seen it on the net before so I thought I'd share. Apparently it was released around 1999? (not sure exactly). I know these guys were controversial and I've only read a few pages myself yet. I wonder if any of the stuff is still relevant today, seeing as it is a decade old?

The magazine is a bit tatty and has pages missing, so sorry about the quality.

Addition: I've had a quick browse. It is made up of articles covering:

(1)The reign of Maharajah Ranjit Singh

(2)A critical piece on Sikh leadership

(3)An essay from a theological perspective covering the paradox of militancy and spirituality

(4)An account of a French convert

Edited March 8, 2010 by dalsingh101

[jaikaara]

thanks a ton ! though it does not give much idea of the organisation but yea the articles are too good.

something similiar needs to be setup here, there r so many incidents happening here.

[Kaljug]

something similiar needs to be setup here, there r so many incidents happening here.

What and where?

K.

[jaikaara]

here in india, our girls getting trapped

[Kaljug]

here in india, our girls getting trapped

By sulleh? Dies this happen in a specifioc part of India or is it a general occurence?

Perhaps you can start a branch of Shere Panjab in India, Singha.

K.

[jaikaara]

yes by sulleh , and it is happening all over, this is what i thinking, to open a branch and get our munde tyaar bar tyaar. trust me veera its easy to unite in UK or amreeka, than in india, in india we r jats , khatris tarkhaan and everything but sikh.

[dalsingh101]

yes by sulleh , and it is happening all over,

If the girls are doing this willingly - what can you say?

this is what i thinking, to open a branch and get our munde tyaar bar tyaar. trust me veera its easy to unite in UK or amreeka, than in india, in india we r jats , khatris tarkhaan and everything but sikh.

Frequently it's not too different here in the UK.

[jaikaara]

yea but how long will we sit like this ? the monthers of these girls r more protecting, the girls got no brains, at the most they will come home or be hijab wearing lady ninja

[dalsingh101]

If its happening in India now, I'd say the issue/problem is with our women, more than sulley. Sulley just taking advantage of loose morals.

[jaikaara]

veer ji if dont stop this, we r in serious trouble, either we will have to accept them back in what ever condition they come or lose them to those pen**ods

[dalsingh101]

If we can't stop this in India, we may as well give up as a quom.

Anyway, the biggest penc@@day (as you put it), are the ones in our quom who have been ignoring this stuff for the last 15 years.

I pray your wrong about it going on back home, but knowing apneean......

Edited March 30, 2010 by dalsingh101

[Kaljug]

yes by sulleh , and it is happening all over, this is what i thinking, to open a branch and get our munde tyaar bar tyaar. trust me veera its easy to unite in UK or amreeka, than in india, in india we r jats , khatris tarkhaan and everything but sikh.

It only took 5 heads to initiate the Khalsa Panth and to bring down the Mughal Empire. Start with 5 Singhs, do an ardas, and go from there.

Perhaps start at a local level and open a martial arts and gym/worout arena at your local gurdwara. You can start a gym with just a bench, a barbell, some weights, and perhaps a power rack. This can be done at someone's house if need be. Train the local Sikh youths to be tyaar bar tyaar, encourage them by example to learn Shastar Vidiya and Sri Dasam Granth vidiya.

Make it known that you and the other 4 Singhs are able to visit families who are having problems and talk to them about solutions, even if it is just to educate Sikh kuriyaan about Sikhi, about the sacrifices their ancestors have made so that they could remain free of Islamic tyranny. In my mind, it does not matter if these girls choose to lose their religion for the sake of some silly Bollywood fantasy marriage with some would be Shah Rukh Khan. The onus is on the local Sikh community not to let them go without a fight. If after all this help, the youth is determined to follow her own path, then fine - but don't give up on them out of laziness and some modern day fantasy about it being OK to give up Sikhi and follow a Muslim lifestyle.

And yep, be prepared for the greatest backlash and criticism to come from your own people who are to scared to do anything themselves.

K.

[jaikaara]

kalyug veer ji you talk so true, i want to fight, i feel to fight, i should and i will fight, even if i dont win i dont think i should lose and sit like a fu*kin loser, i will have to start somewhere, maybe even talk to some of those jhandu hindus who r losing it by the day and facing this in a severe way

[shaheediyan]

Although being tyaar bar tyaar is crucial for all Singhs, the issue here is not lack of fighting spirit, but the bollywood/MTV culture the 'parents' bring their kids up in, and then cry when their kids manifest that culture.

Whats needed here is quality parchaar - deep, intelligent, life changing parchaar that will win the respect, minds and hearts of the listeners. Its generally the people who usually look down on Sikhi jeevan as some outdated Pindu rvaaj (most of Punjab and Delhi) that eventually become victims of kids choosing to exercise their modern upbringing and 'democratic rights' (freedom).

SP didn't exactly get very far, in fact, its in their territory where today you see the highest number of Sikh girls running off with Musle/Kaalai. Its ground level parchaar that is needed, lifestyle changes in teh family, families adopting Sikh rvaaj, practicing so that their kdis will follow. SP eventually became nothing more than another 'gang' with amli Sikhs taking advantage of Sikh girls themselves, I grew up through this and saw it everyday, alongside other gangs in teh Midlands liek the Donkeys and the Blue Bullets. There may have been a few Singhsd with the right intention, but it turned into cannibalising animal.

Those that really care should be focusing more on prevention, rather than cure. Simply bringing your kids up to believe that Muslims are evil isn't going to work (which some Punjabi families do), I have seen those same kids eventually meet Muslims thorugh education or whatever and completely rebel against their parents for teaching them a lie.

Rather, they should be warned of 'bad people' across the board, including the tens of thousands of 'Sikhs' that use and abuse Sikh girls, and should be brought up to develop pyaar for Gurus charan, through this everything else will fall into place, as respect for parents wishes follows respect for Gurus wishes.

As has been mentioned, violence can and should be used where laws are being broken and girls are being forced against their will (this was the reason historically), but to encourage violence where the girl chooses to exercise her rights will leave Sikhs no better than Talibanic Muslims.

Girls should be taught to see the Singh roop as heroic and beautiful, that will only happen (and does happen, I see it everyday) through a parvaars Gursikh Jeevan and Sangat.

Re the physical side, as Kalyug veer says, peope should stop moaning, and put in some hard work and effort to learn combat and then teach it to their local sangat at the very least - alongside bir ras parchaar/baniyan. This is what is needed, not some 'a-team' that you can call when there is trouble. Learn to look after yourselves and those around you!

[dalsingh101]

Although being tyaar bar tyaar is crucial for all Singhs, the issue here is not lack of fighting spirit, but the bollywood/MTV culture the 'parents' bring their kids up in, and then cry when their kids manifest that culture.

Whats needed here is quality parchaar - deep, intelligent, life changing parchaar that will win the respect, minds and hearts of the listeners. Its generally the people who usually look down on Sikhi jeevan as some outdated Pindu rvaaj (most of Punjab and Delhi) that eventually become victims of kids choosing to exercise their modern upbringing and 'democratic rights' (freedom).

I did a postgrad thing in Psychology years ago and it really brought home how susceptible human minds are, especially the average female psyche.

That type of parchaar (you mention) that can reach the average Joe doesn't seem to exist right now. But you are right in that the issue is one at the heart of the matter. It's about forming a particular worldview and frankly a typical Panjabi Sikh upbringing frequently fails miserably at this. That is a big weakness.

You're right about the route SP went to an extent. It was like a textbook example of what Orwell was trying to highlight in his famous Animal Farm. But a lot of good was done also, and this shouldn't be ignored. Even if some idiots later started to get involved to improve their chances of getting laid or whatnot. I've seen hardcore anti-sullah families have those issues you spoke of too. Ultimately though, if you're a young female and your getting attention from someone who you find attractive, in a wider society that actually encourages sexual 'adventurism', chances are you'll take the bait. Especially away from home at uni say.

As has been mentioned, violence can and should be used where laws are being broken and girls are being forced against their will (this was the reason historically), but to encourage violence where the girl chooses to exercise her rights will leave Sikhs no better than Talibanic Muslims.

Fair point, but the consequences of Muslay being strict about their kurian marrying/dating out, mixed with the targeting of apneaan (dude it happens a LOT) isn't any mystery. Especially with a small quom like ours. I personally saw how Pak sullay dealt with this issue in their community in the 80s. Those doing it weren't all fundamentalist/Talibanesque types like your suggesting, but average Abduls. But I also think a strain of whiteist culture has the same agenda too. To absorb other quoms into themselves whilst weakening them.

Girls should be taught to see the Singh roop as heroic and beautiful, that will only happen (and does happen, I see it everyday) through a parvaars Gursikh Jeevan and Sangat.

I hate to say this - but what has been happening to the quom for a long time is that the emphasis on spirituality has become an excuse for inaction and cowardice. In this context it isn't too surprising that some (bewakoof) kurian would rather opt for a streetwise sullah. You have to admit for a long time, Amritdhari Singhs were what you could describe as hyper-masculine. The epitome of dedication, strength, courage, noncompromise. It's those characteristics that we admire so much in puratan Singhs. What are today's Singhs like compared to them? Sadly many seem emasculated for some strange reason?

This is what is needed, not some 'a-team' that you can call when there is trouble. Learn to look after yourselves and those around you!

Absolutely. This stuff happens at a family and close friends level.

Anyway, you're saying x,y,z about SP, look at the haal of the Buddha Dal now.

Edited August 4, 2010 by dalsingh101

[kdsingh80]

here in india, our girls getting trapped

I don't know what you are talking about.In 90% cases of sikh girls non sikh boys the guy is Hindu.Sikhs and muslims don't live side by side anywhere in India.Yes there are some odd cases.

There was a report of love jihad In kerala,Maharshtra and some other states

But in all the cases mostly Girls were hindu's

Edited March 31, 2010 by kdsingh80

[shaheediyan]

Budda dal is a seperate issue, I am not a nominated representative, nor do I claim to be an expert on the inner issues. No organisation today is without problems, Budda Dal is not exempt, but Budda Dal and Dal Panth in general, still hold much value in terms of knowledge and lifestyle of many of its members.

As I said, lets focus on ourselves and those around us at localised level and try and help each other intelligently at a national/international level i.e. share valuable/productive knowledge/resources. No point moaning about life or begging others for help, Shamshere Pita has made you Sardaars, about time people started taking some pride and seeing the value in teh health, faith, history and opportunity they have (esp in the west) and work hard to become real Singhs, and real Men for that matter.

But more importantly (and not at the expense of the other) we should make full effort towards living a true Gursikh jeevan - with Amritvela, Simran, Kirtan, Paat, Seva, Sangat, Khoj, Vichaar, Parchaar being part of our daily routine. This is the most powerful tool to be utilised in changing a quom. We need to get away from teh mindest that 'others' will do it i.e. send kids off to Gurdwara for the weekend for 2nd rate education (sorry to say). The next thing to tackle is the quality of Sikhi and resources in our Gurdwarai.

[Maha Singh]

In my opinion the sikheya you get at home at a young age paves the way for your life, good bachans passed through knowledge, pyar and understanding by parents stick in the minds of children more than any thrashing with a danda.

There are always two parties in the "sulla traps apni kuri" situation.

[jaikaara]

I don't know what you are talking about.In 90% cases of sikh girls non sikh boys the guy is Hindu.Sikhs and muslims don't live side by side anywhere in India.Yes there are some odd cases.

There was a report of love jihad In kerala,Maharshtra and some other states

But in all the cases mostly Girls were hindu's

There maybe more hindu girls but there r ours too, not many cases come up, some are silenced by the parents.

and do u think that they will not attempt for sikh girls ? if the sikhs and hindus or jains or buddhists or the christians, the love jihad has christian girls too (they are not lagging behind too !) dont get together an face they will all be devoured separately

here is a poem someone mailed me its by By Pastor Niemoller

First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out

-- because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out

-- because I was not a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out

-- because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me

-- and by then there was no one left to speak out for me.

Edited March 31, 2010 by jaikaara

[kdsingh80]

There maybe more hindu girls but there r ours too, not many cases come up, some are silenced by the parents.

and do u think that they will not attempt for sikh girls ? if the sikhs and hindus or jains or buddhists or the christians, the love jihad has christian girls too (they are not lagging behind too !) dont get together an face they will all be devoured separately

here is a poem someone mailed me its by By Pastor Niemoller

First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out

-- because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out

-- because I was not a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out

-- because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me

-- and by then there was no one left to speak out for me.

Sikh Girls in Urban India are already marrying Hindu's at crazy rate.Moreover After marriage non of the girls try to raise its family as sikh.In Some cases which I heard recently they force their parents to find a Hindu husband for them.So many Sikh Girls are already a gone case.If they marry Hindu or Muslim it does not matter to sikh community as in both cases they are lost for quam.

[jaikaara]

its true that they r lost in both cases, however we need to make out the difference, the hindu is not baiting on them, if they insist, they may have a sikh upbringing for their children. It usually happened before.

the sulleh is baiting for them, all over the world. the sulleh will not in any case tolerate anything for sikhi forget bringing up children

after getting converted if they repent and want to come back, there is no way back

[kdsingh80]

its true that they r lost in both cases, however we need to make out the difference, the hindu is not baiting on them, if they insist, they may have a sikh upbringing for their children. It usually happened before.

the sulleh is baiting for them, all over the world. the sulleh will not in any case tolerate anything for sikhi forget bringing up children

after getting converted if they repent and want to come back, there is no way back

Jaikara ji

It is nearly impossible to find a sikh Girl who married a Hindu and raised her children as sikhs.

India is a Patriarchal society and children always take their fathers religion.Jagdish tytler,Amitabh Bachan

Varun Gandhi have sikh mothers and How much sikh they are we already know

Also

Don't expect many hindu families to be too generous to allow raise their children as sikhs

In Both Cases their is no way to comeback

Edited March 31, 2010 by kdsingh80

[kdsingh80]

Btw on One thing I agree with you that Sikhs should try to stop this love jihad against Girls irrespective of religion where they see it happening

[jaikaara]

the prob is the intention, the hindu, i feel he has no intention to make the girl have disrespect or disbelief in sikhi, i agree that rare is the case when the sikh girl insists. what i have seen is the hindu will visit sikh religious places.

getting into the love jihad or any such matter depends on the individual, the hindus have still not woken up to it. what will the sikh do ?

my only concern is if we are not on alert we r on the target. if the enemy is common then we dont have a choice.

if you see sikh girls of Huzoor sahib, they are better off than their punjabi counterparts, the huzoori singhs are more kattar. thats the upbringing !

not a single case of running away of sulleh has taken place wherein the girl was a deccani sikh

the case i know of is of 2006 the girl was punjabi sikh and the boy was the son of a muslim mla

riots broke out and nanded burned for 4-5 days

[kdsingh80]

the prob is the intention, the hindu, i feel he has no intention to make the girl have disrespect or disbelief in sikhi, i agree that rare is the case when the sikh girl insists. what i have seen is the hindu will visit sikh religious places.

Well I agree with you that Hindu boys don't have any pre planned strategy to trap sikh Girl.But If sikh Girls themselves are so desperate to marry non sikhs

then they are obviously an easy target for anybody.

The net result of all this is that they are ending up in non sikh homes with non sikh families.The question why should sikhs spend time,energy on these type of Girls who hate the image of sikhs.

As I said above Sikhs should help Girls if they found them in love jihad but I don't think that sikh boys should give special attention on sikh Girls when they themselves are marrying non sikhs with their own wish