Shin-Kin, Your Thoughts On It...

[chatanga1]

I have been thinking of taking my child (7) to Shinkin. I have seen some of their classes, and wanted to know what the brothers here feel about Shinkin.

I would really like for him to learn shastarvidya, but i think he may be a bit young for some of those techniques. So i have been thinking about Shinkin more.

Your thoughts please.

[Maha Singh]

7 is the ideal age for a child to begin learning Shastarvidiya, normally children are brought in at the age of 3 and left in the akhara to just stay in the environment and witness the training. Over the years they will automatically begin picking up techniques and principles. At the age of 6 their formal training starts by teaching them basic blocks and defence, the teaching is more self defence and techniques such as neck breaks, spinal twists, eye gouging, ripping throats etc are not taught. Instead they are taught techniques which are effective enough to end a fight quickly, but are also told of the consequences of fighting and the principle of avoiding fights if possible so it will keep them safe in school. As they pick up the basics they begin learning each of the Khat Ang year by year and then move onto Jang techniques, sparring against others, and then by the age of 16ish they would have done enough training to begin on the classical side of the art and battlefield strategies.

I wont comment on Shin Kin because ive never trained in it, ive trained with some students of Shin Kin however.

Edited June 23, 2010 by Maha Singh

[shaheediyan]

One of my training partners went to Uni with the founders of Shin-kin. From the stories I have been told, they are certainly hard nuts (the guys who invented it).

However, IMHO, I don't believe their personal fighting ability/attitude translates to the teaching of an efficient fighting system. From what I have seen of shin-kin its very kick and punch intensive, looking a lot like taekwondo (which I am certain at least one of the founders has trained in).

The rest is a mix of grappling (jujitsu?) and weapons training taken from Japanese systems rather Chinese from what I can see. It would certainly give you some confidence/ability on the street, but I am not a fan of highy intensive kicking or punching arts. Clever footwork, body movement, evasion and efficient destruction (rather than tit for tat) are much more important in my experience.

I think the fitness training is certainly very good, you get sangat and you get good (with fight experience) teachers... but with regards to the fighting style, I would prefer more classical combat systems.

Chatanga, the other option is you start training in SV and then train your son/daughter for a few years until they are older. You will also learn some great ithihaas and Singh fighting psychology.

Alternatively I would recommend Hari Singhs Eagle Claw classes, you will train in a classical style, with ancient conditioning/exercises and learn some seriously dangerous skills!

There is also that Singh Sahib who teaches JKD in Brum, he looks like he knows what he is doing, but not sure if he does kids classes.

Edited June 23, 2010 by shaheediyan

[SURYADEV]

I think the JKD guy is Sifu Sardara Singh, cool guy. Seems to be well respected by the local martial arts community in Brum. I used to learn gatka with him 'back in the day' when it first started.

I went to Hari SInghs class years back. The guy really knows his stuff but I found he really lacked in the teaching methodologies. Very difficult to learn from him then. However , now he's experienced things may haVE changed.

You could fall back and take him to gatka classes that take place at local temples.

[chatanga1]

yeah he goes to a gatka class run by the talented Sardara Singh. Sardara Singh also know other stuff but as this is something that he runs a business in, he wont teach it as sewa. Gatka I have always thought is very impractical as an art in this urban jungle we live in. I took my son there and told him it was the beginning point of "POWER RANGERS TRAINING" cos he loved that stuff. but i know there is only showmanstuff to be learnt in gatka, and i want him to learn something that at least he can use in difficult situations.

Myself, i have like arthritic knees, and work as a postman so cannot really afford to get injured, and that is very easily done, so i just work on cardio and yoga. I think this handicap would hold me back in shastarvidya classes.

I was thinking of taking him to shinkin for a couple of years and then maybe to shastarvidya classes.

Shaheediyan has made a vey good point in some arts being very punch and kick intensive rather than more destructive or disabling techniques that aren't as movement intensive. Kinda like Mohammad Ali and Mike Tyson, although im sure that both styles have their advantages and disadvantages.

Edited June 23, 2010 by chatanga1

[SURYADEV]

if you are worried about picking up injuries I'd say go to SV. Although its a powerful HARD art the trainig is done almost as if its a SOFT art ie nothing too aggressive is done in training.

The other SV practiontioner can elaborate here.

[Maha Singh]

Chatanga, my advice would be to pop into each school and check out the teaching before you commit to anything, the art, and the environment and see if it suits you and your son. If you do intend to come to SV, Fridays will be best as there is a large amount of younger children who train in the beginners classes so he will have someone to partner off with.

[SURYADEV]

Sardara Singh also know other stuff but as this is something that he runs a business in, he wont teach it as sewa.

Haha thats the influence of NanakDev Singh there! Boy does he know how to make money from this stuff!

personally, If I had a child at that age I would rather send him/her to gymnastics or yoga or even ballet lessons for a couple of years to build excellent body strength, stamina and flexibilty. then later progress onto SV.

You may want to read up on how the old ninja of japan used to train their children into their martial lifestyle/culture. Something the so-called 'modern sikh warriors' can learn a few things from.

PS maybe the mods can set up a section on raising children. How the older members of the forum have done it, problems relating to sikhi (esp when the child comes home from school saying they want to cut their hair), how they taught them about facts of life (birds and the bees), how to explain sikhi to non-sikh children, generally what to do/not to do and offer advice etc, etc

[shaheediyan]

Chatanga, SV caters for people with 'mature characteristics'.

See Nihang Nidar Singhs 'bajurg' tactics in one of the martial arts exhibition videos... :-)

[shaheediyan]

Jattboot, interesting plans for your kids, although Gymnastics is very good, it is said to stunt a childs growth, hence most Gymnasts being small. Its actually best for a child to have a natural upbringing in my case, as Maha singh says, let them hang around an akara, this is the best way for them to learn, as nature intended. They will pick things up, take interest as and when their ability/understanding increases. Personally, I think it is best for the parents to be practicing, as for the 1st 9 years or so, kids hold their parents in high esteem, and aim to mimick and replicate everything they do!

Saying that, if you really want your child to be a fighting bad a*s, send them to the London Shaolin school, which is run by a real Shaolin Master. They train kids in thousands of year old tried and tested methods, their science is excellent, they know exactly how and when to progress a child, and the health/growth is not risked at all. In this training the child will develop super strong and flexibile tendons, muscles, bones... become very fit and disciplined, and pick up a rythm for the plethora of the hundreds of different fighting styles that are at the Shaolins disposal.

[Guest Jere]

Good day! This post could not be written any better!
Reading this post reminds me of my old room mate! He always kept
chatting about this. I will forward this post to him.
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[GurjantGnostic]

On 6/23/2010 at 6:14 AM, Maha Singh said:

7 is the ideal age for a child to begin learning Shastarvidiya, normally children are brought in at the age of 3 and left in the akhara to just stay in the environment and witness the training. Over the years they will automatically begin picking up techniques and principles. At the age of 6 their formal training starts by teaching them basic blocks and defence, the teaching is more self defence and techniques such as neck breaks, spinal twists, eye gouging, ripping throats etc are not taught. Instead they are taught techniques which are effective enough to end a fight quickly, but are also told of the consequences of fighting and the principle of avoiding fights if possible so it will keep them safe in school. As they pick up the basics they begin learning each of the Khat Ang year by year and then move onto Jang techniques, sparring against others, and then by the age of 16ish they would have done enough training to begin on the classical side of the art and battlefield strategies.

 

I wont comment on Shin Kin because ive never trained in it, ive trained with some students of Shin Kin however.

That's real advice there. 

[GurjantGnostic]

9 hours ago, Guest Jere said:

Good day! This post could not be written any better!
Reading this post reminds me of my old room mate! He always kept
chatting about this. I will forward this post to him.
Pretty sure he will have a good read. Thank you for sharing!
aid for ukraine

Why do all our guests ask for money for the nazis?