Dalits Fined For Daring To Drink Water From Tap

[kdsingh80]

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/dalits-fined-for-daring-to-drink-water-from-tap/133186-3.html?from=tn

Bikaner: In a shocking incident in Rajasthan, three Dalits were fined Rs 45 thousand by a Panchayat for daring to drink water from a public tap. A case has now been registered against the accused.

These Dalits have been discriminated against not just by the upper castes, but also by Muslims. The three of them from Randhisar village near Bikaner were fined Rs 15,000 each by their Muslim sarpanch Gope Khan. Their crime was drinking water from a public tap.

One among the three victims, Birbal Meghwal said, “We have been fined Rs. 45000 for drinking water from a public tap.”

When the Dalits protested against the decision, they were allegedly roughed up by Gope Khan’s henchmen. Police were then deployed in the village to defuse any tension and an FIR filed against the attackers.

SP, Bikaner said, “The injured man has registered a case.”

But shockingly the sarpanch who perpetrated this discriminatory act continues to be off the hook.

[dalsingh101]

In time they will get their own Malcolm X, Martin Luther King types I imagine.

On a related note, does anyone know about the so-called 'chauthi paur' I've heard rumours of, which constitutes a separate Amrit ceremony for 'lower' castes?

Anything more than rumours? Any evidence?

Edited October 17, 2010 by dalsingh101

[amardeep]

When Budha Dal hosts Amrit Sanchars there is a special pahul for the lower castes.. Do a search here on the forum, it was discussed in 2005-2006..

[Silence]

If only Sikhs were where we are meant to be, we'd be the ones standing up for their rights.

[amardeep]

Silence: No.. we have lots of rehitnamas telling us to distance ourselves from the lower castes! You're just displaying your singh sabha mentality

Edited October 17, 2010 by amardeep

[dalsingh101]

Silence: No.. we have lots of rehitnamas telling us to distance ourselves from the lower castes! You're just displaying your singh sabha mentality

Are you being serious here?

Is this what you believe?

Have you taken Amrit?

Edited October 17, 2010 by dalsingh101

[amardeep]

no no I was just being sarcastic hehe Casteism is a disease that needs to be destroyed and the institutional examples and principles of the Gurus is the way to conquer it.

Edited October 17, 2010 by amardeep

[amardeep]

Btw thanks for your help bro, the article was approved by the editors

[jaikaara]

www.sikhspectrum.com/112007/scheduled.pdf

Ambedkar’s Move for en masse Conversion

of Depressed Classes to Sikhism

There has been a lack of clarity about why Ambedkar’s resolution

for conversion of India’s scheduled castes to Sikhism in

1936 was quietly dropped. Sikhism was considered to be the best

available option for moving out of the oppressive stranglehold

of Hinduism. Understanding the reasons for rejection of this

option and his conversion to Buddhism instead, 20 years later,

is important to help make sense of the position of lower caste

people in the Sikh community. A part of the suggestive explanation

comes from Ambedkar’s biographer Dhananjay Keer,

M S Gore and L R Bally. Perhaps another significant part of the

explanation lies in a disclosure made by Sardar Kapur Singh in

his Saachi Sakhi.

On October 13, 1935 Ambedkar made a solemn statement at

the Yeola conference of depressed classes that whereas unfortunately

he was born a Hindu untouchable, “I solemnly assure

you that I will not die a Hindu”. This rightly came as ‘a thunderbolt’,

for it rocked political parties and social institutions in

India. It was not simply a question of Ambedkar’s personal choice

because of spiritual or religious reasons. He exhorted his followers

to change their religion en masse: “you have nothing to lose except

your chains, and everything to gain by changing your religion”.

This made it a political question. The leading figures from all

other religions, approached Ambedkar separately, inviting him

to convert to their religion, promising different rewards.

After serious thinking and consultations with a large number

of people, Ambedkar had decided by June 1936 to embrace

Sikhism along with his followers. This had the approval of the

leaders of the Hindu Mahasabha and of Shankracharya Kurtakoti.

Conversion to Sikhism was, as Ambedkar argued, the best choice

from the standpoint of the Hindus [Keer 1971:279-80]. After

participating in the Sikh Missionary conference at Amritsar in

April Ambedkar sent his son, Yashwant Rao, and nephew to

the Golden Temple in May, where they stayed for one month and

a half, to observe the situation and meet with leaders of the

community. On September 18 a group of 13 followers was

deputed to visit Amritsar to meet the ‘Sikh Mission’. There was

already an understanding that the Sikh Mission was going to start

a college in Bombay in the interest of those Depressed Classes

who would convert to Sikhism.

One of the reasons for the change in Ambedkar’s programme

may have related to his anxiety about the ‘chinks in the untouchable

unity’. According to M S Gore “Ambedkar had always been

conscious of the Mang community’s coolness towards his

movement. Ambedkar responded by leaving the final decision

on conversion to the future” [Gore 1993: 145]. Keer tends to

suggest that the reason for postponing the idea of conversions

related to his anxiety about the fate of the Depressed Classes’

share in political power after conversion to Sikhism [Keer: 286-

89]. Bally, who has been a leading Ambedkarite activist, writer

and editor of Bhim Patrika, provided another explanation.

According to him, the untouchables of Punjab had conveyed

to Ambedkar the atrocities they suffered at the hands of the

dominant community of jat Sikhs and appealed to him to ensure

that the untouchables never become Sikhs [bally 1997:155,

Ahir 1992:12].

However, a part of the reason why they failed to hit it off may

well be related to a rethinking and opposition to the move among

the Sikh political class. It was inevitable that the leading men

would consider the fate of their leadership and position in the

SGPC and Gurdwaras, after six crore (60 million) untouchables

became Sikhs. Such is the evidence offered by Sardar Kapur Singh

in his well known but controversial book, Saachi Sakhi. According

to him there was an apprehension that once Ambedkar became

a Sikh with all his followers, no one from the existing Sikh leaders

like Baldev Singh would be nominated to the Viceroy’s executive

council as a representative of the Sikh community. Master Tara

Singh and his supporters had to consider their position and that

of other leaders in the Sikh community and the Shiromani Akali

Dal , the SGPC and control of gurdwaras. Kapur Singh recounted

a story told by Sardar Inder Singh Karwal, an advocate and Akali

leader to a small gathering of advocates in the bar room of Punjab

High Court at Chandigarh in September 1964. He stated that

when, because of differences between Akali leaders and Ambedkar,

the six crore untouchables publicly dropped the idea of adopting

Sikh religion, he asked his neighbour in Lahore, Sardar Harnam

Singh Jhalla, MA, LLB, advocate, (judge of the high court), who

was at that time a prominent Akali leader, the real reason or cause

of this ‘tragedy’. Sardar Harnam Singh then replied “O you don’t

have an understanding of these matters. By making six crore of

untouchables, Sikhs, should we hand over the Darbar Sahib to

Chuhras”?. ‘This way’, says Kapur Singh, “six crore of Rangretas

– Guru Ka-Betas, who had come to the door of the Guru were

pushed out; the same way as Guru Tegh Bahadur was not allowed

to enter Harimandir Sahib (Golden Temple)”. But, according to

him, the actual truth of the matter is even “more crude and

despicable”. His argument is that when the ‘Akali party’ understood

the full implications of six crores untouchables entering

the Sikh community, they unanimously devised a strategy to deal

with this ‘emergency’. Then “they unanimously decided that

Ambedkar and his follower untouchables must be dissuaded

and stopped from becoming Sikhs for all time”. Master Tara

Singh, whose leadership of the Sikh community was threatened

by Ambedkar’s entry, sent Sardar Sujan Singh to Bombay,

‘with specific instructions’ to tell Ambedkar ‘clearly’ the mind

of the Akali leaders, so that he dropped the idea [Kapur

[amardeep]

Why would the jatts approve of dalits converting to Sikhism. It would shift the power balance as they would become the new majority

[jaikaara]

thats the prob ..even after all the philosophies of equality we stand at the same sqare one from where ..umm i think we never started ..we always placed ourselves there

what have we achieved ? what has hindustan achieved ? will these issues ever be history? i see these differences in the young generation, the last year firing case in vienna, i had tried to stop both sides from fighting each other and was at the recieving end from a lot of sikh youth, they would just swear " you bloddy chamar"

[dalsingh101]

Why would the jatts approve of dalits converting to Sikhism. It would shift the power balance as they would become the new majority

So what you are suggesting is that many Jatts are in the panth because it is some sort of platform for their own aspirations rather than faith? That they would compromise key egalitarian principles in order to preserve their 'power'?

??

If what you are saying is true we are finished, because that means the majority have no real belief in the faith and that they will place obstacles to our numerical growth, which is essential in todays political world, simply to preserve some personal power?

Very dodgy situation. Like a retrogressive fifth column.

I pray you are wrong. If people get out of petty thinking and open their eyes to what is going on globally, we could go the same way as the Spartans. lol

Every day we read in Ardas how the panth will flourish if Waheguru gives blessings to it. If people seriously compromise Sikhi then we may fall out of grace?

Edited October 18, 2010 by dalsingh101

[jaikaara]

here is a great poem by a poet from maharashtra Namdeo dhasal

While I write this at night

it’s three o’ clock

Though I want to have a drink

I don’t feel like drinking.

Only I want to sleep peacefully

And tomorrow morning see no varnas

- Namdeo Dhasal

[dalsingh101]

The first place we can overcome the varna thing is in the western diaspora.

We just need the will and an idealised generation.

[jaikaara]

the west is not left out, usa has color, i thought this was past, however travel to old areas and interacting with whites destroys the myth of equality, UK has class differences

[dalsingh101]

My point was that we have a better chance of combating caste in the panth in the west than in Panjab right now.

I've seen families get off their high and mighty horse with regard to caste once a child of theirs marries a nonSikh. Then all of a sudden a Sikh of another jaat is acceptable to them in future.

Plus in one or two generations, those of us that remain committed to a Sikh identity out here will have to seriously consider the wisdom of trying to perpetuate a caste system in this environment. Other than brainwashed kids, many of the people who have a sense of fairness and equality and desire to perpetuate their religious heritage will want to transcend caste themselves. Caste will make less and less sense to them in future.

Of course you will have the ignorant die hards but they are already under pressure to keep their crap perpetuated through increasing inter-marriages between castes and races. I think casteists may become dinosaurs pretty quickly out here.

If you live in a insular small community like Southall, I imagine you could be quite isolated from what really goes on in the wider world.

[tonyhp32]

There is so much falsification and wishful thinking associated with the Ambedkar episode. Firstly Ambedkar was not the only leader of the lower castes in India although he was by far the best known. His support was localised to the area around Bombay and mostly restricted to the lower castes of his own Mahar caste. Secondly to blame his non-conversion to Sikhism on a Jat or Akali conspiracy to keep their power and position in the Sikh community is plainly nonsense. Thirdly the numbers sprouted about the potential followers of Ambedkar who would have converted to Sikhism has been grossly overestimated. When Ambedkar did convert to Buddhism in 1956 about 500,000 of his followers followed suit with another 3-4 million afterwards. If the Jats or Akalis were so concerned about lower castes becoming Sikhs, they why did they set up the Aligarh and Harpur missions in UP which eventually converted over 200,000 lower castes to Sikhism at the same time as they were supposedly preventing Ambedkar from becoming a Sikh?

[dalsingh101]

There is so much falsification and wishful thinking associated with the Ambedkar episode. Firstly Ambedkar was not the only leader of the lower castes in India although he was by far the best known. His support was localised to the area around Bombay and mostly restricted to the lower castes of his own Mahar caste. Secondly to blame his non-conversion to Sikhism on a Jat or Akali conspiracy to keep their power and position in the Sikh community is plainly nonsense. Thirdly the numbers sprouted about the potential followers of Ambedkar who would have converted to Sikhism has been grossly overestimated. When Ambedkar did convert to Buddhism in 1956 about 500,000 of his followers followed suit with another 3-4 million afterwards. If the Jats or Akalis were so concerned about lower castes becoming Sikhs, they why did they set up the Aligarh and Harpur missions in UP which eventually converted over 200,000 lower castes to Sikhism at the same time as they were supposedly preventing Ambedkar from becoming a Sikh?

To me none of this matters a toss. Anyone who is not purposefully turning a blind eye towards the matter can see the nature of the subsequent treatment of so-called 'low castes' by 'Sikhs' and the effect it has had in Panjab.

Forget every single thing in the past. Look at the situation now. People have a simple choice to make. Either continue with this barely concealed 'personal caste interest' agenda or try and help reshape Sikh society into a flatter, fairer more egalitarian form. The former represents a nasty self-centred approach to me, the latter a more progressive humane one.

I guess this is really a matter of conflict between tossers and progressives now. I know tossers trying to keep a grip on their tossery usually end up being hated and falling off. So people have the option of seeing sense and welcoming in change, or doing an 'English' and seeing their carefully laid schemes and structures falling apart around them.

Take your pick.

[chatanga1]

So what you are suggesting is that many Jatts are in the panth because it is some sort of platform for their own aspirations rather than faith? That they would compromise key egalitarian principles in order to preserve their 'power'?

I pray you are wrong.

the answer to your 1st question is YES!

In my gurdwara there was talk of making a non-jatt a stage secretary, and the jatts went ape-shit over it, one even saying you have bought in a bhatra to sit on our heads. Even the women who make langar threatened to walk out if he was given a place in the committee.

Nope, we are still right. Jatts consider themselves as the best and truest sikhs.

[jaikaara]

and i have seen the worst lot of them, doing all the kurehits ! the asnwer is simple the management during the time of babasaheb dint want the people coming in an organised form, they wanted to control the movment themselves so that they could save their seats.

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

It was due to caste system only that Sanatan Sikh lost the control of Shri Akal Takhat Sahib, before Kartar Singh Jhabbar took over, Rhityas(weavers, who are either Arya Samaji now or merged with Ramdasis), Ramdasis(leather dealers) and Majhabis/Raghuretas(sweepers) were not allowed to cross from the bank of holy lake in front of Darshani Deohari. This bank is called Chautha PAur so are Sikhs from out side four Varnas by Nihungs, Nanaksar, Rumi Sants and some Rara Sahib people. Yes Namdharis have separate "cage" for them.

It is possible that Gurus did appoint untouchables on gate so that all Sangat who must visit Harmandir Sahib, should shun untouchablility and touch these manifestations of Akal.Any way Baba Nanak was from the family of Kush, who was infact made up fro the Kush/seat /family of Balmiki, who is termed as Supachara/dog eater in Shri Guru Granth Sahib. Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha is wrong when he says that there are two Balmikis as spokesman also said the same. Hindu texts talk of one Balmiki only who was reformed and wrote Ramayana, he tells that he is son of PRacheta, which means Varun/Water. The Kolis or fisherman on mahrashtra and Gujrats again are Valmikis. working with fish of water. As per Manu Samriti say for few fishes if someone eat fishes he is not of high birth as Fish eats evrything.

All info given here is bookish and could be wrong.

[chatanga1]

vijaydeep singh, any books youcan recommend for further reading of the so-called low castes concerning sikhs?

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh

S. Jaswant Singh Ji of Chandigarh has done a great work on this,but presently he his busy with the book on Adi Guru Darbar and Dasam Guru Darbar. if you want contact das on his email id akalustatvijay@yahoo.com.

While there are two magazines in Punjab again on crusade against cast ism.

http://www.indopunjab.com/

This has support of Singh Sahib Baba Balbeer Singh, if editor is to be believed.(Editor Gurnam Singh Aqida)

http://www.sachkibela.org/

This has support of Singh Sahib Baba Joginder Singh Ji Akali of Raqba.(Editor Anbhol Singh)

Both the magazines are working at tandom and may merge in future, they both have a sort of alliance against spokesman of mohali.

If you want email id of both the editors and thier mobile number das could be contacted and they will be provided. All three are known to das and reference of das vijaydeep Singh could be given while contacting them. All the best.

Some more info on the topic.

Swami Gyandev Singh Ji Nirmala's Sri Mahant are anti caste, Sant Ramanand, slained in veinna was part of his organisation and touching feet of Gurdev Singh in presence of Adi Guru Darbar is not a sin in Sanatan Sikhs.

Another person Swami Brahmdev Ji Udasis are also against caste , He has students from Bhaini Sahib of Namdharis, who too had discussion with das and agreed for the possibility of reform when they are in a postion.(someone from them one day could be Satiguru of Namdharis).

[jaikaara]

i also belive that our huzuri singhs are against caste, during one of my recent visits to huzur sahib nanded, i was present at an ocassion when a newly married banjara couple had come to seek blessings.

the did matha tek and offered their daswand, the sevadars had a brief conversation with them and invited them in th evening, the banjara sikhs (they were sehajdhari) replied that in the evening they had satnarayan paath.

now in this situation, had the sevadars been of the singh sabha or the kirtani jatha, they would have done a lot of lecturing why they shouldnt do paat of satnarayan, HOWEVER, this is where our huzuri singhs deserve a pat on the back, they too smiled back and appreciated them.