Can Someone Be A Keshdharis Sikh And Gay At The Same Time?

[dalsingh101]

Found this interview of a cool keshdhari producer/rapper then found out he was gay.

Just wondering what the score is with this? I know if someone like that appeared in my family they'd tell him to cut his hair straightaway if he was a poof.

You know what, I was thinking that now we have spread out in the more 'open' diaspora, we will have to deal with things that are usually kept undercover back home, like gayness, lesbianism, non Panjabi speaking 3rd generation Sikhs etc. This is really going to change the shape of the panth.

Edited February 8, 2011 by dalsingh101

[HSD1]

To be honest, what's the big deal with homosexuality? If people are born that way then who the hell are we to judge? Sikhs are so willing to tolerate all kinds of bad actions of non-sikhs and even from so called respected elders in our own community but when it comes to gays/lesbians it causes sikhs to get all upset and annoyed. Is it because homosexuals dont stand up to us and outwit us like those other groups I mentioned do? Homophobia is itself more prominent in anglo/abrahamic societies than many others. Some of us like to go on about 'victorian' values that have wormed their way into sikhi but only seem to apply that logic to things they personally disagree with.

As for Sikh Knowledge, the guy makes some great songs with Humble the Poet. The lyrics of Baagi Music and Singh With Me reflect a style of thinking that is way beyond anything expressed by our supposedly wiser older generation. Dont let homosexuality cloud your views of a person. If some sikhs talked about others actions due to their colour/caste/religion then many other sikhs would jump on them even though there may be truth in what they say. Why is sexuality an issue?

[dalsingh101]

I'm not being judgmental like that. I have nothing against poofters. Once when I was working in some racist company the only bloke that wasn't being an jackass was a gay man. I have no problems with them and think they can't help what they are generally (unless they where brought up in those famous posh boarding schools and were turned or groomed into being batty boys by older 'prefects', or so I have heard).

I was just wondering from a theological perspective? You know, being a Khalsa and gay.

I say this in a wider context of a lot of issues that aren't directly covered by the dharam, other examples being abortion. I mean I wonder what our Gurus would of made of them? Maybe they would have been really anti?

That's the thing with Islam, it covers a lot of stuff so they don't have to think about and make difficult decisions on certain matters.

As far as Islam is concerned you can't officially be a sullah and a poof. They are mutually exclusive. Even though a lot of those Arabs and those mountain wallay on the Pak/Afghan border dig that vibe apparently.

My point was if the pagh/dhara and being openly gay was an acceptable combo?

By the way, I'm sure plenty of 'uncle jis' were gay too, they just kept it undercover. Funny how we will be dealing with all this stuff in future and how it has been suppressed for so long.

Edited February 8, 2011 by dalsingh101

[HSD1]

I wasnt talking about you personally Dal, just the older community in general.

Once when I was working in some racist company the only bloke that wasn't being an jackass was a gay man.

Exactly. Sexuality doesnt come into judging how a person is on a moralistic level.

I have no problems with them and think they can't help what they are generally (unless they where brought up in those famous posh boarding schools and were turned or groomed into being batty boys by older 'prefects', or so I have heard).

Werent you a teacher once......?

I was just wondering from a theological perspective? You know, being a Khalsa and gay.

I say this in a wider context of a lot of issues that aren't directly covered by the dharam, other examples being abortion. I mean I wonder what our Gurus would of made of them? Maybe they would have been really anti?

I think these werent covered as they probably change with the politics of the time. Look at the west, turning its back on the parts of christism that didnt fit in with society gave them a bit more cohesion. Unfortunately for whitey, their search for hedonism has overtaken any kind of morality searching. Islam itself only compounded the collapse of middle eastern civilization in the middle ages, and thanks to islam the region has never recovered. Sikhs need to realise that these things werent covered for a reason.

By the way, I'm sure plenty of 'uncle jis' were gay too, they just kept it undercover. Funny how we will be dealing with all this stuff in future and how it has been suppressed for so long.

Sikhi's emphasis on the family life probably had something to do with this.

[dalsingh101]

Islam itself only compounded the collapse of middle eastern civilization in the middle ages, and thanks to islam the region has never recovered.

I know it's a tangent but if we are straight up sachiar (truthful) then we have to acknowledge sullay weren't always junglee pussoos as their culture seems characterised now. They had fine art (albeit using no images but calligraphy type stuff and patterns), weaponry, architecture, maths knowledge, astrology, libraries etc.

If Iraq (the then centre of Islamic civilisation) wasn't ass raped by the Mongols, maybe they would've been more advanced than now and not have lost their older preIslamic knowledge?

Maybe this is a subject for a separate thread?

In any case that rapper represents what we will have to deal with in future. We may as well face it.

Ha ha! You new gen mofos will have to deal with all this! lol @ u! Plus being Sikh and not knowing Panjabi....haha!

Edited February 8, 2011 by dalsingh101

[HSD1]

I know it's a tangent but if we are straight up sachiar (truthful) then we have to acknowledge sullay weren't always junglee pussoos as their culture seems characterised now. They had fine art (albeit using no images but calligraphy type stuff and patterns), weaponry, architecture, maths knowledge, astrology, libraries etc.

If Iraq (the then centre of Islamic civilisation) wasn't ass raped by the Mongols, maybe they would've been more advanced than now and not have lost their older preIslamic knowledge?

Maybe this is a subject for a separate thread?

This may have started the decline but we all know that when the euros got on their ships and started sailing around africa/america they would have no need to send trade through the middle east. As a result of lack of trade the region had nowhere near as much money to lavish on armies, research, arts and infrastructure. Hell, they didnt even have the money to maintain what they already had. We are seeing something similar in Europe today.

In any case that rapper represents what we will have to deal with in future. We may as well face it.

Deal with? lol, whats the issue? I think bigotted oldies are something that we youthful spirits will have to overcome.

Ha ha! You new gen mofos will have to deal with all this!

We'll do a damn sight better than your lot did.

lol @ u! Plus being Sikh and not knowing Panjabi....haha!

Lol all i have to do is concentrate on the reading and writing. You on the other hand have lost your youth. Now stop being so jealous and judgemental, this whole midlife crisis your having will pass one day. Just stick it out old man.

Edited February 8, 2011 by HSD 2

[kdsingh80]

To be honest, what's the big deal with homosexuality? If people are born that way then who the hell are we to judge?

This is the biggest question? There were/are lesbian Feminists Who openly asked women that for complete liberation they need to adopt Lesbianism and being a Lesbian is a choice.similarly there are cases of Jail inmates adopting Homosexuality because of Sexual starvation,now the question is do we need that this Sikhs will adopt this type of culture?

[chatanga1]

I know if someone like that appeared in my family they'd tell him to cut his hair straightaway if HE was a poof.

homsexuality has been around almost the same time as heterosexuality. for me it aint a problem, as my work colleagurs have asked many times, if sikhi tolerates gays.

Dal Singh Ji, why would your family insist on the guy cutting his hair straightaway? wouldnt they go down the "lets take him to a baba to get the bhoot out of him" route first?

And the way you have put "he" into "HE" looks like you trying to hide something.

Edited February 8, 2011 by chatanga1

[dalsingh101]

And the way you have put "he" into "HE" looks like you trying to hide something.

lol!! If I was a poof, I'd straight say it. I wouldn't be scared myself. I'm not trying to hide anything okay!! Before the rumour mill starts! That was a grammatical typo.

Now I think about it, I sort of respect that brother for coming out with it instead of hiding it. Canada seems really mellow. I don't think he could have got away with it here in the Ju Kay? But then it cuts both ways, like that mona comedian guy with the "Pag it!" joke in his video. A few years ago in the UK someone would have tracked him down and probably roughed him up for that.

Maybe it's a good thing that we can laugh at ourselves? Jews have been doing it for donkeys years with Mel Brooks etc. Even that Ali G bundha does it. Those Canucks seem to be at much more ease with themselves than JU Kay wallay. But then we are in the very belly of the beast itself so no surprise.

homsexuality has been around almost the same time as heterosexuality. for me it aint a problem, as my work colleagurs have asked many times, if sikhi tolerates gays.

I agree but we have to acknowledge that the Akal Takhat has already put out an anti gay thing about them getting married a few years back. Don't you lot remember? Maybe not, as you were in your nappies then? lol

Dal Singh Ji, why would your family insist on the guy cutting his hair straightaway? wouldnt they go down the "lets take him to a baba to get the bhoot out of him" route first?

I think they tried this route for other problems many many years ago and err...don't believe in its 'efficacy' anymore...lol

Edited February 8, 2011 by dalsingh101

[dalsingh101]

Lol all i have to do is concentrate on the reading and writing. You on the other hand have lost your youth. Now stop being so jealous and judgemental, this whole midlife crisis your having will pass one day. Just stick it out old man.

Yeh, but I had the benefit of immersion in the middle of real life first gen Panjabs and the language and culture in its raw form, warts and all. So - ha! For all the things f**ked up about them,some of those oldies were hilarious (the blokes anyway) in many ways. Especially their attempts at being cool and speaking English and the drunken pendu brawls. lol

Plus, I'm older and wiser now. Like a fine wine, matured just right. Special reserve, if you know what I mean. Whilst you are a cheap bottle of Bulgarian plonk, that thinks of itself as Champagne! Poor thing, don't worry, we all go through that obnoxious stage. You'll grow out of it when your brain fully develops.

[Mithar]

Judging from this thread, Sikhs of England seem to be very accepting of homosexuality. Living in England for 3 generation has made you into Goray/European in terms of your moral/ethical values.

[chatanga1]

I agree but we have to acknowledge that the Akal Takhat has already put out an anti gay thing about them getting married a few years back.

that is slightly missing the point, as this topic is about being kesadhari and gay. Someone could be both, and still be married to a woman.

Sam-lingi anand karaj, i think overwhelming if not all of panth will abide by Sri Akal Takht Sahib on its edict.

[dalsingh101]

Judging from this thread, Sikhs of England seem to be very accepting of homosexuality. Living in England for 3 generation has made you into Goray/European in terms of your moral/ethical values.

No, I just think that in the wide scope of things that we need to resolve as a panth here in the UK, poofterism is pretty low on the agenda. I think the UK Sikh community is probably the most troubled of the diasporic communities in western countries.

Plus to be honest, I don't really want to be one of those people that just abuses poofs for no reason. Truth is that poof men are usually much better people than an ahhm goray - from my experiences anyway. Sure they can talk, dress and walk funny with their mincing ways but, more often than not, it's hilarious. Its like a bundha acting like a janani - you know that makes you laugh.

Anyway, I know a few 'uncle jis' are undercover fags. Being one and pretending not to be one is worse in my opinion.

Edited February 8, 2011 by dalsingh101

[dalsingh101]

Sam-lingi anand karaj - what is this?

[Maha Singh]

According to this site, it is possible lol

http://www.singhsabhainternational.blogspot.com

Edited February 8, 2011 by Maha Singh

[HSD1]

This is the biggest question? There were/are lesbian Feminists Who openly asked women that for complete liberation they need to adopt Lesbianism and being a Lesbian is a choice.similarly there are cases of Jail inmates adopting Homosexuality because of Sexual starvation,now the question is do we need that this Sikhs will adopt this type of culture?

Sikh culture actively promotes chastity before marriage. So examples of people committing sexual acts for political/physical reasons is wrong whether it is homo or heterosexual.

That was a grammatical typo.

Putting 'he' into 'HE' has nothing to do with grammar, old boy. Active subconcious morelike.

I agree but we have to acknowledge that the Akal Takhat has already put out an anti gay thing about them getting married a few years back. Don't you lot remember? Maybe not, as you were in your nappies then? lol

Havent there been a few lesbian marriages in the Punjab? Dont think they lasted long, but I think the couples went through with it.

Yeh, but I had the benefit of immersion in the middle of real life first gen Panjabs and the language and culture in its raw form, warts and all. So - ha! For all the things f**ked up about them,some of those oldies were hilarious (the blokes anyway) in many ways. Especially their attempts at being cool and speaking English and the drunken pendu brawls. lol

They do say characteristics skip a generation. Explains why your lot are so dire!

Plus, I'm older and wiser now. Like a fine wine, matured just right. Special reserve, if you know what I mean. Whilst you are a cheap bottle of Bulgarian plonk, that thinks of itself as Champagne! Poor thing, don't worry, we all go through that obnoxious stage. You'll grow out of it when your brain fully develops.

What is it with old people and their insecurities? Anyway, leave the analogies to me as yours are terrible. Bulgarian plonk?! Ghastly.

Judging from this thread, Sikhs of England seem to be very accepting of homosexuality. Living in England for 3 generation has made you into Goray/European in terms of your moral/ethical values.

The anglos are deeply homophobic compared to other european countries, judging by what some people on the continent say about people there. Truth is that the whites only care about homos when they are being persecuted in islamic or non-white countries. It's like a stick they can use to show how they are morally superior, even if it is completely hypocritical. Sikhs themselves need to be less protestant and stop giving our enemies the sticks to beat us with.

Sure they can talk, dress and walk funny with their mincing ways but, more often than not, it's hilarious. Its like a bundha acting like a janani - you know that makes you laugh.

Anyway, I know a few 'uncle jis' are undercover fags. Being one and pretending not to be one is worse in my opinion.

The lady doth protest too much!

[dalsingh101]

The anglos are deeply homophobic compared to other european countries,

That's because they are mostly fags themselves (or have tendencies that way inclined) and are repressing it and it is coming out all ugly and angry like it always does with them. That's what I reckon. Seriously.

The only other whites more bent then these lot are Greeks.

[chatanga1]

Sam-lingi anand karaj - what is this?

same gender marriage.

[kdsingh80]

Sikh culture actively promotes chastity before marriage. So examples of people committing sexual acts for political/physical reasons is wrong whether it is homo or heterosexual.

So it means two feminists have anand karaj even if they are not naturally homo then it become acceptable,similarly two prison inmates marry and start indulging homosexual activity then it also become acceptable according to Sikh culture?

BTW On this site members give importance to puratan sources .Is there any puratan source that these type of marriages happened in Sikhs?

[HSD1]

So it means two feminists have anand karaj even if they are not naturally homo then it become acceptable,similarly two prison inmates marry and start indulging homosexual activity then it also become acceptable according to Sikh culture?

My point is that you are using western events to try and make the point that homosexuality is not natural. Heterosexuality for me is natural, the idea of marrying a man is something I would never consider. If we were to take your examples, I seriously doubt sikh feminists would marry one another in order to fight sexual inequality. Western feminism wants women to be allowed to do what men do. Living in the west, I can tell you that western men arent all holy and pious. Women in the west have used equality in order to get drunk and sleep around. So the idea that sikh feminists would get married to fight oppression is just mute. As for male prisoners, i have no idea whether sikhs indulge in homosexuality in prison here or anywhere else in the world. But you do know that some sikhs who get married are doing it because they come from conservative families and they want to get it on with one another? Marrying for lust is not something I agree with whether they are hetero or homo.

http://www.punjabnewsline.com/content/view/4606/38/

[Mekhane'ch Jannat]

In a society where people can make up a whole identity, based on the data that as males they like to have sex with other males, is a society teetering on the edge of the pit. No one denies that these unnatural acts have occured throughout history. But a big difference is that there were certain rules of behaviour, in the past, that were known as rules of NATURAL MORAL ORDER. Which were created over the course of many generations for the harmonious and coherent functioning of society. Now with no Natural Moral Order people feel free to 'express' all their unnaturalities in order to standardise and normalise them. It should be accepted that a Man goes with a Woman, anything deviating from this is against natural law and therefore against God and causes suffering to the person because it goes against natural instincts and will cause remorse for him later on. And I would say gays are possessed, possessed by an idea that causes them to override natural impulses, an external factor that enters into them and moves them in the Gay direction. All this 'i was born gay' BS is a self justification for gays to make their own Raj a gay kingdom which is their secret aim and conspiracy, eventhey have infiltrated Sikhs how sad. Please WAKE UP and dont let the gays make their Gay Raj by supporting them ideologically, being gay is wrong. But if you have to be gay it is ok to do it quietly in private, just don't try to make a Gay Raj.

[dalsingh101]

BTW On this site members give importance to puratan sources .Is there any puratan source that these type of marriages happened in Sikhs?

You know what, I think there is a homo reference in the original Panth Prakash text but I have never been able to translate/fully understand it?

I've attached it, incase anyone can nail it (pun intended).

Edited February 8, 2011 by dalsingh101

[kdsingh80]

As for male prisoners, i have no idea whether sikhs indulge in homosexuality in prison here or anywhere else in the world. But you do know that some sikhs who get married are doing it because they come from conservative families and they want to get it on with one another? Marrying for lust is not something I agree with whether they are hetero or homo.

Here is one of the article about Punjabi Youths illegally working and suffering in Germany

---------------------------------------------------

http://www.sikhawareness.com//index.php?showtopic=13498&view=&hl=Life&fromsearch=1

However, he clarifies, gayness works for those who find it a feasible option by choice and not by force. With homosexuality having ceased to be a social taboo in European society, some of his South Asian housemates are also fast coming to terms with this practice. Although this new tendency vis-à-vis sexual behaviours is not a disease, it definitely can be attributed to frustration and depression in their life due to lack of their contact with female members of the population. Needless to say that their forced and prolonged sexual abstinence is encouraging them to resort to this new sexual behaviour.

----------------------------------------------------

[kdsingh80]

My point is that you are using western events to try and make the point that homosexuality is not natural. Heterosexuality for me is natural, the idea of marrying a man is something I would never consider. If we were to take your examples, I seriously doubt sikh feminists would marry one another in order to fight sexual inequality. Western feminism wants women to be allowed to do what men do. Living in the west, I can tell you that western men arent all holy and pious. Women in the west have used equality in order to get drunk and sleep around. So the idea that sikh feminists would get married to fight oppression is just mute.

The Idea of accepting homosexuality By large majority of Sikhs itself is total crap.The community that still find it hard that their children marry Outside caste suddenly become accepting gay marriage which even very liberal people of India may find hard to accept is totally unthinkable in India.

As far my question is concerned It is related to whether the homosexuality is natural? Just because west is now saying that it is natural people are accepting it.

Also Please read what happened to first so called sikh lesbian marriage of Punjab

http://www.punjabnewsline.com/content/punjabs-lesbian-couple-separates-amidst-high-drama

Baljit Kaur who played husband Thursday tried to commit suicide but was arrested by the police for attempt to murder. She alleged that Rajwinder Kaur had broken the relationship under pressure from her parents. Rajwinder Kaur however has told the police that she was misled by Baljit on the promsie to taking her to Canada. Rajwinder was taken away by her parents.

Edited February 8, 2011 by kdsingh80

[HSD1]

Here is one of the article about Punjabi Youths illegally working and suffering in Germany

Like I said before i think sikhi does not allow sex before marriage or for sikhs to marry for reasons of lust. To provide the example that some freshies in germany cant keep a hold of themselves because the local german and asian girls arent into them is hardly the evidence for ridiculing all the sikhs who grew up in the west where they had free choice and still say they are naturally gay.

The Idea of accepting homosexuality By large majority of Sikhs itself is total crap.The community that still find it hard that their children marry Outside caste suddenly become accepting gay marriage which even very liberal people of India may find hard to accept is totally unthinkable in India.

Well sikhs are becoming less and less weary of straying from their parents path. I've seen families ripped apart in the UK because the elders have had retarded views on how their children should be even though they themselves got up to all sorts when they got off the boat or as they grew up here. India itself is a prehistoric shithole who's only claim to fame is being one of Britannia's Bastards. What is interesting is how sikhs dont care about heterosexual getting up to all sorts that is against sikhi, only to be all up in arms at the idea of homosexual sikhs.

This thread is about whether a sikh can be homosexual and still be religous, or at least appear to be. This music producer grew up in canada where he had the freedom to chose. He wasnt forced by feminist propaganda/prison sentences or living in a foreign central european country. Without asking this guy why he is the way he is then i cant really see the questions you asked being resolved as I'm not homosexual.

Also Please read what happened to first so called sikh lesbian marriage of Punjab

That link just shows the level of family politics in the average hindustani sikh family and the nature of many sikhs over there. I dont agree with getting married to get abroad, whether the marriage is homosexual or heterosexual.