Idea Of Khalsa Being Founded By A Gujrati Brahmin?

[Genie Singh]

I came across this facebook post and wondered what everyone thought. It was in response to a post about guru gobind singh asking pandits to summon the devi, they couldn't and he took his sword and said it was the devi.

Kesar Singh Chibbar's Bansavalinama gives a very different story. And if I'm correct, he was Chaupa Singh's grandson.

...

Bhagauti is directly related to Durga. The word Bhagavat means 'Lord'. It's masc form in the nominative is Bhagavan and the feminine is Bhagavati. In the Persian script, va is also read as o and au (و). Hence بهـگوتى can be read as Bhagavati or Bhagauti. She is the divine as Shakti. The sagun form is Durga as well as weapons. Shakti is the archetype.

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In short, Pandit Devi Datt, 10th guru's vidya guru, told him how Bhima performed a yag by which durga appeared and gave him the Shakti to defeat the enemy. The Guru wanted to manifest Devi this way to fight the Turks. Devi Datt said he wasn't capable and he should access more competent Brahmins. The Guru called loads of them to test them for their purity by offering meat to eat along with money. When there were only three left, he honoured them and asked them to do the yag. They said they couldn't do this but recommended Pandit Kalak Das from Gujarat who had made Devi manifest before. So the Guru met him and Kalak Das asked the reason. The Guru said to kill the Turks. Kalak Das replied that the Guru is an advaitin seeing all as One, so why the need to kill them? The Guru said that for the purpose of protecting dharma, The Lord has commanded him. Panditji then suggested that he create a panth to do this for him. The Guru agreed. So the Guru replaced his janeu and sat for the yag with Kalak das for forty days undisturbed by all. Devi then appeared, gave the sword and said 'go, may your panth be victorious'.

(Worth noting btw here, that the idea of having the Khalsa was from a Gujarati Brahmin. I bet neo-Sikhs won't like this).

[Guest]

Bhagauti is definitely Bhagvati. doesn't matter what the denialists say

Bhaugati cannot be confined to only bhagvati chandi ji only. According to sant gurbachan singh ji katha he quoted from amar kosh where bhaugati is interpreted to have four theological meaning -

1. Akaal purkh

2. Kirpan- Sri Sahib

3. Bhagvati Chandi

4. Aad shakti

[dalsingh101]

Plus what about the fact that contemporary Sainapati's Gursobha doesn't mention any of the devi stuff at all?

[Singh123456777]

What proof is there?There is no prove about the Devi thing at all.

As n30 s!ngh veer Ji said bhaguti means many different things.

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

In Gurmat we accept Akal as being formless but the parent of all forms. Baba Santa Singh says that this Akal manifested his shakti, which then shaped the illusion as per it's parent's wishes. This shakti is Bhagauti, Bhagvati, Durga and Chandi. For the Khalsa it is often worshipped in it's sargun saroop as the sword. Avtar Singh Vahira writes that this Shakti is itself a form of the lord (Khalsa Dharam Shastar), but a more feminine one opposed to the masculine view purported to by other faiths. When shakti (the Akal) in a sargun saroop appeared to the Guru it/he/she granted him the power of Shakti to fortify and embolden the panth. Vahira also evidences the fact that before any 'Hindu Dharma,' or 'Sikh Dharma' existed individuals saw the Khalsa Gurus and Indian deities as having been sent by one source. Subsequently, he provides an exegesis of how Krishna, Ram Chandra and many others manifested this motherly form of the lord for success.

Secondly the Khalsa (pure) has existed since time immemorial. It has only evolved in form. As far as I am concerned I do not trust any facebook post, lol, God help us if facebook became our repository of knowledge. Chibber has also written an exegesis of Uggardanti, yet neo-Sikhs twist it to idealise the notion that a certain Sukha Singh wrote it.

http://tisarpanth.blogspot.co.nz/2013/10/the-metaphysical-feminine.html?view=timeslide

http://tisarpanth.blogspot.co.nz/2013/10/the-diversification-of-brahm.html?view=timeslide

http://tisarpanth.blogspot.co.nz/2013/09/the-linear-narrative.html?view=timeslide

http://tisarpanth.blogspot.co.nz/2013/09/the-primary-narrative.html?view=timeslide

[GtLoc]

the Guru replaced his janeu and sat for the yag with Kalak das for forty days undisturbed by a

Loll. Yo, India has the best comedy. Nobody else picked up on thay,

Let me say this any man wearing a janeau ran away centuries before chamkaur, he didn't fight in it.

End of story.

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਹਿ||

[Genie Singh]

the Guru replaced his janeu and sat for the yag with Kalak das for forty days undisturbed by a

Loll. Yo, India has the best comedy. Nobody else picked up on thay,

Let me say this any man wearing a janeau ran away centuries before chamkaur, he didn't fight in it.

End of story.

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਹਿ||

How about Maharati Shiva Ji?

[Jonny101]

How about Maharati Shiva Ji?

July and told him that the Vedic Brahmin Religion and mantras have no power and Ganga Bhatt was a idiot who looted him like a fox and thief. He told him that all his loss was due to following of wrong religion, mantras, system of coronation. Shivaji Maharaj totally agreed with him and throw away Janeu and second coronation was carried out on 24 th Sepember, 1674 at the hands of Hindu Dharma System ( tantra) Guru Nischchal Puri Goswami from Bengal a site of hidden Buddhist Religion and his assistant Malla i.e. Naga Chela.

http://nativeraut.blogspot.ca/2011/11/shivaji-maharaj-left-brahmin-religion.html

[GtLoc]

What about him? You're a hindu, most likely khatri or bramin.

He's sissodia I'm sissodia. I see why you are a history chor. He'd look at you like you're mod's edit, I'm doing that right now.

[Jonny101]

1758 a janeu wearing Brahmin Raghunath Rao conquered WHOLE Punjab from east to west, right up to Peshawar (The Cambridge History of India, Volume 3 By Edward J. Rapson page 416);

before him, banda bahadur also conquered substantial part of Punjab. He too, being a vaishnav, wore a janeu. Ala Singh of patiala was used to wear a janeu.

What a history chor. This chor has been proven false on the Baba Banda Singh Bahadur issue yet he is still repeating his propaganda here. Admins should give him a warning to not distort Sikh history on purpose.

Marathas with the HELP of their allies Adina Begh the Mughal and brave Sikhs of Punjab came to the indus, but 2 years later when Afghans came under Abdali he ran away without even putting up a fight. Again I have previously given him a history lesson on this hoping that maybe he did not know, but it is clear he is here just to spread his anti Sikh propaganda.

[chatanga1]

Look at it loogically, Guru Nanak Dev Ji refused to wear Janeu, in childhood and dismissed the whole practice.

In Sri Dasam Granth, 10th Guru says that the Lord will help him to create the panth. Why would Guru Ji need any Brahman to help him with this?

The main theme of using the brahmans in this story was to display, that they held no power whatsoever and were frauds, to the common man who were taught to worshiop them as Gods.

[Genie Singh]

What about him? You're a hindu, most likely khatri or bramin.

He's sissodia I'm sissodia. I see why you are a history chor. He'd look at you like you're mod's edit, I'm doing that right now.

I only asked a question it sounds like you are a fundamentalist to find offence at someone mere asking a question. Are you or will you be one of those parents who will slap their children when they ask a question? If so sikhi won't remain in your next generation.

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

I only asked a question it sounds like you are a fundamentalist to find offence at someone mere asking a question. Are you or will you be one of those parents who will slap their children when they ask a question? If so sikhi won't remain in your next generation.

The problem is with History Chor Ji.