Hans Raj Hans Converts To Islam

[dalsingh101]

Then again the hindus are too busy getting top grades, top positions in business, politics, academia.......to worry about low level gangster stuff...

Don't get me wrong, I agree hindu achievements in the education and business department (especially the medical field) is admirable and commendable. No one in their right mind can take that away and if anyone tried to, they would be a fool in my opinion.

I guess it boils downs to your conception of society. If we think that they are generally stable, then the fact that hindus don't 'worry' about 'low level gangster stuff' (as you have characterised it), is the perfect response.

If, however, this isn't an accurate conception, and societies can suddenly turn hostile and violent for whatever social, political, economic reason(s), then the picture is different.

Again, I'm not under any illusion that all Sikhs are some doughty warriors, as I've encountered plenty of cowards amongst us, but - I still think us (admittedly) generally less educated/sophisticated and less politically savvy Sikhs have - at this time in the UK - (at least a slightly) better capacity to defend ourselves than our Hindu brethren. I'm not going to lie; I think this is good because I do believe that sometimes societies can get nasty towards minorities.

Although it may be an extreme example, it may be worthwhile remember the fate of the Jews who were also very successful and highly educated in Europe in the run up to world war 2.

Edited March 15, 2014 by dalsingh101

[Jonny101]

Don't get me wrong, I agree hindu achievements in the education and business department (especially the medical field) is admirable and commendable. No one in their right mind can take that away and if anyone tried to, they would be a fool in my opinion.

I guess it boils downs to your conception of society. If we think that they are generally stable, then the fact that hindus don't 'worry' about 'low level gangster stuff' (as you have characterised it), is the perfect response.

If, however, this is isn't an accurate conception, and societies can suddenly turn hostile and violent for whatever social, political, economic reason(s), then the picture is different.

Again, I'm not under any illusion that all Sikhs are some doughty warriors, as I've encountered plenty of cowards amongst us, but - I still think at this moment, us admittedly generally less educated/sophisticated and less politically savvy Sikhs have - at this time in the UK - (at least a slightly) better capacity to defend ourselves than our Hindu brethren. I'm not going to lie; I think this is good because I do believe that sometimes societies can get nasty towards minorities.

Although it may be an extreme example, it may be worthwhile remember the fate of the Jews who were also very successful and highly educated in Europe in the run up to world war 2.

Just look at the situation of Punjabi Hindus of west Punjab right before partition. They along with the Sikhs of west Punjab were the wealthiest and most industrious people in India. And in the case of the Hindus, they were also very educated. But when things got hostile, what good did all that wealth, education do? in the end people of east Punjab had to resort to the "low level gangstar stuff".

The jews of Europe are another example people who thought they could rely on their success within Europe. But no amount of success could stop their holocaust. They are an example for us to follow. Today they have their own country that they can call home. Now they have a standing army which can beat any army in the middle east or even Europe.

[Amandeep Hindustani]

Just look at the situation of Punjabi Hindus of west Punjab right before partition. They along with the Sikhs of west Punjab were the wealthiest and most industrious people in India. And in the case of the Hindus, they were also very educated. But when things got hostile, what good did all that wealth, education do? in the end people of east Punjab had to resort to the "low level gangstar stuff".

The jews of Europe are another example people who thought they could rely on their success within Europe. But no amount of success could stop their holocaust. They are an example for us to follow. Today they have their own country that they can call home. Now they have a standing army which can beat any army in the middle east or even Europe.

Those are all blips. When life gets back to normal its all about wealth and education.

BTW, congratulations to Indra Nooyi (CEO-Pepsi) Congratulations to Satya Nadella (CEO-Microsoft) and Dr. Arvind Gupta (CEO- UBC)

and I am saddened by the passing of another hindu visionary last year Amar Bose -Bose Stereo Corporation.

Now continue with the "gangsta stuff"

[dalsingh101]

Now continue with the "gangsta stuff"

I'm not going to lie; I'd be very sad if Singhs simply became a mirror of our Hindu brethren - whose achievements I do admire.

That being said, a part of me is both disgusted and sort of affectionate towards that streak of hot headed (often inebriated) fuduness, and simplicity exemplified by certain Panjabi Sikhs. I've worked in prestigious jobs in the square mile; growing up, I've also worked in warehouses and building sites with crews of apnay. I know which one is more satisfying and fun, even if it isn't as financially rewarding. So it's not a simple black and white picture. Put bluntly, I'd rather a son made less money (enough to get by) and retained his manliness, than have a massive fortune and be an emasculated supernerd. But then that's just personal preference.

Hindustani - you carry on with your vision. Be a Hindu, you have much to be proud of, but when doing so let us be Sikhs and find our own way. I hope and pray we always have our hand in 'low level gangster stuff' I feel better for it. Whether upheavals are blips or not, partition, 1984, the rise of the NF in 80's UK, race attacks in America post 9/11 show that these things ARE a reality for a Sikh man.

What you have done is highlight a nuanced difference between the mindset of Hindus and many Sikhs - generally I'd argue that we do have a more 'working class mentality' (for want of a better phrase) whilst you are very much like Jews with all its positives and negatives.

[dalsingh101]

Not all singhs are gangtsa nor all Hindus are nerds.

Who was saying that anyway? Not me.

But, still, there are ground level differences in the communities, Fauji Sikhs ARE generally more inclined to working class, manual jobs here than Hindus. And get this. The pendus will come here and think they've hit the lottery by landing a labouring job. If one can land and handle a brickie, carpentry or plasterer job - hell! the man is no less than a king amongst his peers! lol

I see Hindus come here, upper class ones as doctors, and middle class ones as computer programmers. I've seen a smattering of HPs working in Sikh owned and dominated building firms though. But generally Sikhs will do jobs many other Indians will feel are degrading or too hard. Panjabi pendus also have a stong drinking culture too, which is akin to the Irish/English one - if not worse.

I don't think Hindus can really appreciate the mindset and worldview of a Sikhman because being a minority wherever we go, and a visible one at that, we have to consider things. Not only that, but we also have the whole legacy of Guru Gobind Singh's belief in the importance of being able to protect yourself wisping around as an ideal - whether or not we rise to it.

Hindus often appear to be very sophisticated, conservative and reserved, whilst many common Sikh men can be raucous and simple. I'm one of that latter type, and make no bones about it.

I should add that we also do have our business highflyers like Narinder Kapanay, Gurdev Khush, Ajay Singh - the CEO of Mastercard (zzzzzz......) I don't get what Hindustani is trying to get at?

PS - I know the thread has serious shifted off point. I'll bow out now.

Edited March 16, 2014 by dalsingh101

[Jonny101]

Once again this fellow refuses to conduct any research before making such claims.

Zakat has got nothing to do with kafirs. Zakat is about alm-giving by the wealthy Muslims. Its a institution from where Sikhs got inspiration for Dasvandh. i would let him do some homework and find out about the tax Muslims imposed on kafirs. No spoon-feeding of a fanatic.

no clue what he is trying to say about Khalsa Raaj and muslim state.

Sikhi didn't get inspired by any religion. Sikhi is a divine religion of Vaheguru. Daswand(10%) is not Zakat which is only 2%

[Jonny101]

Dal singh, neither you nor Hindustani represent the two faiths. Not all singhs are gangtsa nor all Hindus are nerds.Have a tour of Khap country and you would think that Jat Sikhs are such a sophisticated community. look at Tamil Tigers' recent history and you would think khalistanis are such mellow in comparison. Study Asom freedom fighters/terrorists working class? what you know about the toiling billion strong population of india. the segment you are addressing is restricted to few millions. i wish you know more about the peasants toiling in Andhra pradesh or Rajsthani...i wish you have better idea about the Indian army recruitment drives in bihar and elsewhere which always end up in riots as 20% or so positions are reserved for a community with two percent population.

For once I agree with Sher here and fully disagree with Hindustani. Not all Hindus are like the Punjabi Hindus and Gujus who sadly give the Hindus the emasculate image that we are so familiar with and who have to leech off the legacy of other more brave Hindu ethnicities(like the Marathas, Rajasthanis). Not all Hindus are cowards. The Hindu Jats, Gujjars, Rajputs, Gurkhas, Marathas, Tamils can and do punch back when provoked. But of these people only the Marathas are religious nationalists like the Sikh people, the other ones although brave are not religious nationalists.

Edited March 16, 2014 by Jonny101

[chatanga1]

i wish you have better idea about the Indian army recruitment drives in bihar and elsewhere which always end up in riots as 20% or so positions are reserved for a community with two percent population.

couldnt resist that dig could you? entry into the army should be on merit alone, and that is why the Sikhs have such representation in the army.

[Amandeep Hindustani]

Everything in the world today is decided via the boardrooms, courtrooms, senate offices.

Who was saying that anyway? Not me.

But, still, there are ground level differences in the communities, Fauji Sikhs ARE generally more inclined to working class, manual jobs here than Hindus. And get this. The pendus will come here and think they've hit the lottery by landing a labouring job. If one can land and handle a brickie, carpentry or plasterer job - hell! the man is no less than a king amongst his peers! lol

I see Hindus come here, upper class ones as doctors, and middle class ones as computer programmers. I've seen a smattering of HPs working in Sikh owned and dominated building firms though. But generally Sikhs will do jobs many other Indians will feel are degrading or too hard. Panjabi pendus also have a stong drinking culture too, which is akin to the Irish/English one - if not worse.

I don't think Hindus can really appreciate the mindset and worldview of a Sikhman because being a minority wherever we go, and a visible one at that, we have to consider things. Not only that, but we also have the whole legacy of Guru Gobind Singh's belief in the importance of being able to protect yourself wisping around as an ideal - whether or not we rise to it.

Hindus often appear to be very sophisticated, conservative and reserved, whilst many common Sikh men can be raucous and simple. I'm one of that latter type, and make no bones about it.

I should add that we also do have our business highflyers like Narinder Kapanay, Gurdev Khush, Ajay Singh - the CEO of Mastercard (zzzzzz......) I don't get what Hindustani is trying to get at?

PS - I know the thread has serious shifted off point. I'll bow out now.

Do you think that hinduism would have survived this long if it did not have an ability to fight? While its sister civilizations have disappeared and read about in books.

Do you think 500 years of survival is great? How about 2000, 3000, 4000?

BTW, Guru Gobind Singh ji was not just a master of war but equally a master of education, learning and analysis. Maybe you should also strive for that ideal as well?

The Gurkhas and Tamils are docile, peace loving people in real life until pushed and they become fierce warriors. Every human being retains this ability. Before the Gurkhas and Tamils, it was the sikhs before that it was the marattas before that it was the guptas before that it was the rajputs before that the Tamils again and then the Biharis.

Push the gujju or punjabi hindu far enough you may get the same result....

[dalsingh101]

Everything in the world today is decided via the boardrooms, courtrooms, senate offices.

Do you think that hinduism would have survived this long if it did not have an ability to fight? While its sister civilizations have disappeared and read about in books.

Do you think 500 years of survival is great? How about 2000, 3000, 4000?

Okay, you've dragged me back in...lol It's too interesting a subject!

I don't agree. I think ground level shite can play a massive role too. It's fear of terrorist retaliation/repercussions on the street that inclines many ground level whites to at least resent their governments foreign policy (in england), even if they are too apathetic or cowardly to confront their ruling classes. Also, when I was growing up, violent retaliation against neo-nazi groups and others who targeted brown folks for abuse and attacks totally transformed our day too day lives (for the better). So no, not everything is dictated by boardrooms or senates.

Like I said, I have a lot of respect for ancient Indic achievements (which I also see as part of my heritage), but your account is a massive whitewash. Hindustan just went through a period of colonisation and subjugation for centuries. There was seriously cowardly, supine behaviour during this as well as brave resistance. If I can put my hands up and say "I feel like the Sikh reaction to British colonialism was on the dubious side and often verged on outright sycophancy", why do you have a problem acknowledging the more shameful aspects of Hindu subjugation?

Problem with Hindus (like many Sikhs) is that they fail to face up to the more shameful side of their society and history engaging in cheap triumphalism. We now know that pre-annexation Sikh historians, like Bhangu, didn't adopt this style and gave a warts and all account.

BTW: I still don't get what the main thrust of your argument is?

BTW, Guru Gobind Singh ji was not just a master of war but equally a master of education, learning and analysis. Maybe you should also strive for that ideal as well?

I absolutely agree. Personally I try to, but that doesn't mean I ignore what I see around me regarding my fellow Sikhs - many of them are simple pendu creatures. That's just a fact of life.

In time, with increasing education and (hopefully) a gradual unraveling of the petty thinking/mindset that characterises us - I hope we get to somewhere better. Saying that, I hope we express the moorings of our own heritage when we do this - and not simply become brown Jews or like educated Hindus. I know we have a Jat fudu problem, but in the long run, I hope Sikhs aim for something more noble than trying to be some grand, super-powerful 'master race' type community.