Genie Singh Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) -Edited- Edited December 10, 2015 by JatherdarSahib 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny101 Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) That's what I was talking about with these singers who slyly promote Islam in the form of Sufism. Hans Raj Hans was showing the signs years ago. Most of his Sikhi related songs are from the 80s to mid 90s. After that he just stopped. Just get ready for the others to follow suit namely Sartaj and Kanwar Grewal who I feel are closet Muslims especially Grewal. What kind of message this will send to their fans especially Sikh youth lets see. Another possibility I see is a lot of people "convert" to Islam in India in order to marry a second time(as Dharmindra did) or maybe he has converted to Islam for a Muslim lady much as a Nakai Sardar who was the heir to the Nakai misl did a long time ago. Edited February 19, 2014 by Jonny101 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 What the Hell ????? Sadly, Jonny jee, the way you foresee these issues, seems to be correct. The Guru's were inspired by some of the works of sufis, but they didn't encourage us to embrace te whole lifestyle and dharm further. I mean, Hans raj hans gave us that wonderful ''patha patha singhan da vairi'', a whole album that every household had at the time and I still keep in the car. If someone told me back then in the early 90's that this guy is gonna be a full muslim or is already a 'SID'(sulah in disguise!). Then I probably would have smacked them on the face ! I say again..........''What the hell'' ???? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 I don't think he was ever Sikh anyway? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) I don't think he was ever Sikh anyway? No, but he contributed and portrayed the images of sikhi in positive lights with some of his mainstream dharmik productions. He had the gift of expressing sikhi in the music regardless if he was amritdhari or not. Very few artists can give you something that you FEEL as well as hear. It's when you hear people say ''that he sings from his heart.'' It's all in the god given voice and breath. There's only a handful of artists that can do this, and they are the one's that survive the longest in the industry. You will always remember the dharmik song and message mostly, and not the artist. There is a lot of groundbreaking dharmik material by old UK artists like Bhujangy group, which I always enjoy listening to along with some of the shabads and kirtan they produced. These guys weren't amritdhari, but they had the gifts of expressing guru's words. Sadly, these gems of music are very difficult to locate unless you have the LP's from 70's/80's. Luckily, i have been able to digitize my own copies of whatever I could get my hands on. Edited February 19, 2014 by Lucky 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdsingh80 Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Sikhism is going through terrible time. every other day you hear news of sikh women marrying men of other religion even terrorists.More and more sikhs are adopting hindu rituals, following baba's .In sports now you hardly see a sikh with patkas at top level . Even in cricket there are no sikhs left in Indian team and at under 19 level I don't see anyone.In other sports its the same situation . And now you hear news of a famous punjabi singer converted to islam 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Sikhism is going through terrible time. every other day you hear news of sikh women marrying men of other religion even terrorists.More and more sikhs are adopting hindu rituals, following baba's .In sports now you hardly see a sikh with patkas at top level . Even in cricket there are no sikhs left in Indian team and at under 19 level I don't see anyone.In other sports its the same situation . And now you hear news of a famous punjabi singer converted to islam Thanks to ultra right wing singh sabha idealogy- black and white idealogy on who is a sikh and who isnt- black and white..approach.. Actual gurmat sikhi and puratan samparda's who followed old traditional sikhi never made sikhi exculsive faith it was always been inclusive open to all. Nirmale and udasi (modern day hybrid group -udasi + khalsa- 3ho) to this day like puratan times- give naam vidhiya, preach sikh adhyatam to all regardless whoever they are without any string attached, conditioning, approach is natural where one can relate to sikhi spiritually and get peace, its also very nicely packaged-connected to one self- scientific spiritual reasoning and effective for most part many monaie ended up growing kesh and take amrit after a year or so. But according to neo tat khalsa singh sabha/other right wing sikhs abroad they are not even sikhs. Radhaswamis/Nirankaris and also dodra were able to tap on udasi and nirmale spirituality parchar approach and captalized on it and look how well they did.!! If one is not introduced to sikh spirituality hand in hand with basic rehit framework, - raw standalone bunch of sharia bodily rules are too sour- does not work..sure it can give people temporary high- people loose interest and move on as they cannot handle daily tribal bickering of sikhs who cannot get past begineer sharia basic level of dharam- outer discussion kachera color-length/kara kirpan size, manmat/gurmat club discussions) as neo tat khalsa singh sabha incompetent reformist missionary christian sikhi can only go that far.. You want to save sikhi, go back to roots of adhyatam- ferengi reformist christian protestant sikhi can only go so far and off course ferengi sikhi mixed with political activism (post 1984) is dangerous mix...most of western born punjabi sikhs(especially ladies) simply cannot be arsed..they have bettter peace of mind following one aspect of sikhi- spiritual culture-yoga/kundalini of west...can't blame them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny101 Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 http://www.thenewstribe.com/2014/02/19/indian-singer-hans-raj-hans-embraces-islam-wants-to-go-madinah/ Lahore: Indian famous singer Hans Raj Hans has confirmed media reports in which it was mentioned that the singer has embraced Islam. According to a report published in newspaper, the singer said his name would be Mohammad Yousuf for now but he cleared that he will maintain his name ‘Hans Raj Hans’ for singing industry. He said he has got the Islamic education very closely and started reading of Holy Quran and gradually began to understand the essence of the divine revelation. I listened to the call of my heart and decided to embrace Islam.” We should follow the teaching of Islam as it is a Religion of Love and Peace, he added. Raj further said that he felt proud to become a Muslim, adding that he wanted to visit Madinah as early as possible. He emphasized both India and Pakistan to resolve all the problems with dialogue as it was the wish of the people of both the countries. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyhp32 Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Neo as always trying to push his sanatan ideas when these very sanatan ideas were the ones that ensured that caste has remained a part of Sikhi, that people who worshipped idols could claim to be 'Sikhs', that the Gurdwaras were the sole preserve of the Mahants and lower castes could not have their offering accepted at certain times of the day. Neo you need to be aware that it not the existence of Singh Sabha ideology that has brought the news of an idiot like Hans becoming a Muslim to pass but because so many cling on to the liberal anything goes type of Sikhi that you are espousing, Hans and even people like Gurdas Mann have never been Sikhs, If Hans had been a Keshdhari Sikh for years and then announced he was to become a Muslim then you could have had a point that the Singh Sabha ideology was failing but the guy was and always stated that he was a follower of a Sufi shrine. The same is the case of Gurdas Mann, who follows some cigarette smoking half naked buffoon called Laddi Shah, These Sufi followers were the same ones who the Singh Sabha defeated so decisively in the beginning of the last century. Their comeback is more to do with a lax and lazy attitude in Sikhs than the sudden negation of Singh Sabha ideology, Had we had the great pioneers of Singh Sabha ideology around today rather than half baked hotch potch Udasi-Nirmala dera Babas we would never see such things as a fool like Hans Raj becoming a Muslim. You would not see people claiming to be Sikhs frequent Sufi shrines, you also wouldn't see adverts in Punjabi newspapers claiming so and so Baba for a price can cure of any mental or physical condition, These things happen in Punjab because people do not follow Singh Sabha ideology and not because there is an excess of Singh Sabha ideology. Had Giani Ditt Singh been alive today he would have destroyed the hotch potch ideas of people like Hans Raj before he even had time to espouse them. I dare say he would have described him as a fool and and idiot. It will be amusing to see how a libertine like Hans Raj who has only seen the lax Islam of the Sufis will now cope with having his whole behaviour regulated in things like which foot he should place first when going into a loo and which prayer to recite to ward off the devil who resides there! Let's hope he doesn't get to see in real life what true Muslims do to Sufis as has happened in Pakistan in recent years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Singh Posted February 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) -Edited- Edited December 10, 2015 by JatherdarSahib 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyhp32 Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Nice to see that the media reports have been countered by his son. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Going back to original topic, in grand scheme of things its fine if he is drawn towards mystic layer of dharma its fine and spiritual progressing, many sevapanthis have sufi mix literature as well of rumi and other sufi fakirs, sikh saints have warm relationship between mystic traditions of all cultures and religion- fakirs, sadhus etc. I think sikhs should pay more attention to contain non sikhs who have converted into sikhi like gorreh sikhs, try to build up bridge between them, last time harbhajan singh yogi tried to build up bridge between them- he got death threats, legal law suits from insecure right wing punjabi tribal sikhs. Even to this day, go to facebook and see how badly they are treated, demoralized demonized by neo right wing tribal groups abroad...none of punjabi gurdwaras abroad host them or try to bridge the gap instead demonize them...then they whine about parchar or people converting to islam. White sikhs treatment remind me of how dalits were treated by neo singh sabha. Typical jatts pendu/punjabi mentality in our panth, they cannot let go of control and tribalism. I was lucky i was born in calcutta so i do have a bit of eagle eyes on overall suitation- biggest threat sikhi has its internal and punjabi tribalism- Tribal punjabis are most self righteous, self loathing, self praising, self absorbed, self policing, self entitled, self privileged group of people i have ever met.!! They talk about anakh, there is a difference between false pride and genuine pride, punjabi tribal own worst enemy is their own vanity. We need to realize there is a diffference between genuine pride and gajini type of false pride/ego. Guru Maharaj has said, ਗਰਬ ਗੰਜਨ ਦੁਸਟ ਭੰਜਨ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਦਾਇਕ ਕਾਮ || Thou art the Destroyer of ego, the vanquisher of tyrants and performer of works leading to salvation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny101 Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Damn media! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh123456777 Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Who cares what this guy does.I really don't. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Who cares what this guy does.I really don't. All though i don't care as well, as everything is in hakum but from parcharik perspective this should be bit of pinch wake up call ...mainstream parcharikhs may want to review how they approach things in sikhi. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny101 Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 All though i don't care as well, as everything is in hakum but from parcharik perspective this should be bit of pinch wake up call ...mainstream parcharikhs may want to review how they approach things in sikhi. One thing I think Sikh Parcharaks need to do is stop infighting with each other. Due to this infighting, we just end up cancelling each other out. Let the Sants, Taksals, AKJ, Nihangs, Nirmalas, missionaries, SGPC all do their own parchar. Just don't do parchar against each other. Once we have this type of mindset, then the real parchar will take place towards Sikhs and non Sikhs and Sikhi will grow. Our own infighting has resulted in the rise of Nakli Gurudoms in Punjab, Christian proselytism and the likes of Sumedh Saini trying to spread Islam. Bhai Jugraj Singh of Basics of Sikhi has a good approach. We need parcharaks like him in India and watch how people will gravitate towards Sikhi. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 One thing I think Sikh Parcharaks need to do is stop infighting with each other. Due to this infighting, we just end up cancelling each other out. Let the Sants, Taksals, AKJ, Nihangs, Nirmalas, missionaries, SGPC all do their own parchar. Just don't do parchar against each other. easier said than done. The first step is to acknowledge that there is diversity in the panth, and not criticize others viewpoints. So the contentious issues, which we fight over day in, day out, (meat, raagmala,etc) will be replaced by other parchaar. So much time and effort goers into encouraging vegetarianism, and denigrating non-vegetarianism, that we miss more important issues. If we ALL abide by Sri Akal Takht Sahib hukam, then we would have more progress. Just think of it, all the jathas saying, abide by the hukam of Sri Akal Takht Sahib, and the in-fighting will end. No-one will think of themselves as the "correct" version of sikhi. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GtLoc Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) Thanks to ultra right wing singh sabha idealogy- black and white idealogy on who is a sikh and who isnt- black and white..approach.. Actual gurmat sikhi and puratan samparda's who followed old traditional sikhi never made sikhi exculsive faith it was always been inclusive open to all. Nirmale and udasi (modern day hybrid group -udasi + khalsa- 3ho) to this day like puratan times- give naam vidhiya, preach sikh adhyatam to all regardless whoever they are without any string attached, conditioning, approach is natural where one can relate to sikhi spiritually and get peace, its also very nicely packaged-connected to one self- scientific spiritual reasoning and effective for most part many monaie ended up growing kesh and take amrit after a year or so. But according to neo tat khalsa singh sabha/other right wing sikhs abroad they are not even sikhs. Radhaswamis/Nirankaris and also dodra were able to tap on udasi and nirmale spirituality parchar approach and captalized on it and look how well they did.!! If one is not introduced to sikh spirituality hand in hand with basic rehit framework, - raw standalone bunch of sharia bodily rules are too sour- does not work..sure it can give people temporary high- people loose interest and move on as they cannot handle daily tribal bickering of sikhs who cannot get past begineer sharia basic level of dharam- outer discussion kachera color-length/kara kirpan size, manmat/gurmat club discussions) as neo tat khalsa singh sabha incompetent reformist missionary christian sikhi can only go that far.. You want to save sikhi, go back to roots of adhyatam- ferengi reformist christian protestant sikhi can only go so far and off course ferengi sikhi mixed with political activism (post 1984) is dangerous mix...most of western born punjabi sikhs(especially ladies) simply cannot be arsed..they have bettter peace of mind following one aspect of sikhi- spiritual culture-yoga/kundalini of west...can't blame them. True. But, there is a big difference between a flame becoming dim and being extinguished. Edit Calcutta eh khatri sahib? Jatt ain't welcome here eh, jk. Amarjeet is a cool dude though, look steel always meets steel. Whether in crossfire, or sword to sword. Ours is embued with fire, their's with ice. ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਹਿ | | Edited February 21, 2014 by GtLoc 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amarjeet Singh_1737 Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Come to think about it, if it wasn't for this thread I would still have been thinking Hans Raj Hans was some Islamic exponent. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GtLoc Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Eh who cares. Tha Tha Karan Vaitha Delair Barra Der Da. When time comes, no aaki left. ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕਾ ਖਾਲਸਾ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜੀ ਕੀ ਫਤਹਿ | | 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 I just remember someone telling me years ago that HRH was a Farsi or something? Plus, when you check it, Mirasis traditionally convert (or flirt) with the religion in power as they rely on patronage. I mean look at our beloved Kuldip Manak, he appears to be quite close to Islam despite singing lots of pro-Sikh songs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Have not embraced Islam: Hans Umesh Dewan Tribune News Service Jalandhar, February 20 Renowned Sufi singer Hans Raj Hans has debunked reports in Pakistan media claiming that he has embraced Islam. "Responding to a media query in Pakistan, I expressed my desire to visit Medina. Guru Nanak Dev had also visited Medina. Every Sikh wants to visit the places that were visited by Guru Nanak,” he told The Tribune this evening. Though only Muslims visit Medina, his son Navraj said: “If a non-Sikh visits the Golden Temple, it does not mean he has embraced Sikhism.” News portal ‘Pakistan Affairs’ and ‘U News TV’ claim that after converting to Islam, Hans Raj Hans has changed his name to Mohammad Yousuf but will continue to use his original name in the entertainment industry. Born to Sikh parents at Shafipur village near Jalandhar, Hans Raj Hans is a Padma Shri recipient. He unsuccessfully contested the 2009 parliamentary elections from Jalandhar. He heads Dera Lal Badshah in Nakodar. He is a frequent visitor to Pakistan. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Good one Neo, appears to another Neil Armstrong type Muslim propaganda then. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Too much paranoia, Sikhs/Khalsas becoming increasingly paranoid. Dal Singh is right, nothing about HRH shows that he was/is a Sikh. There are many like him who would like to be left alone as far as their spiritual allegiance is concerned. Going by SGPC, neo Tat Khalsa definition HRH is NOT a Sikh. period. hansas village is by mine, and his parents are Sikhs, so i would say he was of a sikh background, although he does seem to be more of a spiritualist than any particular religion. It was hansa who bought the radha swami plot in safipur. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Good one Neo, appears to another Neil Armstrong type Muslim propaganda then. people still beleive that even now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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