India Untouched - The Caste System

[Amandeep Hindustani]

A must watch documentary on the caste system. It is absolutely sickening from what I just watched. And even though I am a strict hindu and brahmin, if this is the treatment of metted out to Dalits then they should leave hinduism immediately.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uM85zVt6xCU

Sorry, the adding of the link did not work for me.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Amandeep Hindustani

[jaikaara]

Do you understand what you are talking ? Dalits should leave your house since rest of your fellow hindus will not treat them well ? You will not do anything to eradicate this issue ???? Why ? As a brahmin do you own Hinduism pvt. ltd ?

My appeal to dalit and non brahmins is ..throw out people who have castiest brhaminical mindsets ..get rid of them ..dont let them worship your Devte ...What is the populations of brahmins in India ? Barely 4% . What is the population of Dalits in India ? 16% . So mr. Amandeep you mean to say that to accomodate 4% traitors of this land who did nothing to protect India from invaders the rest of 16% should walk out ???? I hope you are not high on marijuana .

I am sorry for my words but i mean this . Enough !!! just enough of this dhoti choti waale ...i dont hate all brahmans but i know there is this crap sitting very deep inside their hearts that rest of the world should change for you .


You should be thankful to Dr. Babasaheb Amabedkar who asked the Dalits to convert to Buddhism and did not ask that crowd which had gathered to slaughter you.

Grow up man ! Because of such a mindset so much blood has been flowing . Again, sorry if you felt i had hatred for brahmins ..i dont. I hate the lot which follows the brahminical devils .

And dont think you are alone ..there is a brahmin devil sitting in the heads of jats , rajputs thakurs who have persecuted the lower castes and raped their daughters .

I dont want to pay for your mistakes ..before the sulle will be out of this face of the world , i would be happy to see such evil mindsets going extinct .

[dalsingh101]

And dont think you are alone ..there is a brahmin devil sitting in the heads of jats , rajputs thakurs who have persecuted the lower castes and raped their daughters .

Let's not get it twisted, plenty of jats act as bad as any hindus with casteism. Including rape. Get your head out of the ground.

[jaikaara]

so this is what i said dally.

[dalsingh101]

so this is what i said dally.

My apologies then.

It's REALLY sad that Sikhs engage in this jaat paat thing. At least Hindus have an excuse in that their way of life (society) is traditionally built upon caste division - Sikhs have NO excuse.

But we still see fudu apnay trying to justify or excuse it away as 'tribal identity' or the 'effects of Hindu influence'; when in reality it's just rampant haumai in our community. Nothing to do with Brahminical devils in my opinion.

Edited April 3, 2014 by dalsingh101

[jaikaara]

Bro no one is getting above this ..even in muslims this is existing ..to escape caste people converted but arent going anywhere ..

[jaikaara]

I find this comment to be really crazy. Are you holding every Brahmin alive today responsible for his or her forefathers' acts? Are you condemning the 'evil' or the children of the 'evildoers'?

I definitely agree that Brahmins should be doing all they can within their means to eradicate the caste system but butchering them just because the highly discriminatory system exists sounds like a deranged idea.

This is like prosecuting the indian Muslims for the thousand years of genocide let loose by their foreigner co-religionists and rapist forefathers.

and what does this line: 4% traitors of this land who did nothing to protect India from invaders" mean btw?

Are you saying Brahmins did nothing to protect India from invaders? Besides reining in your intolerance, you should also read history.

While condemning the caste system and their modern age perpetrators (Which would also include the backward castes who persecute the castes considered 'lower' to them in the pecking order), i would urge for a better understanding of the caste dynamics in the 21st century and what can be done to eradicate this scourge - the worst kind of racism.

Understand caste dynamics ? At what cost ? for more than 2000 years the so called castes formed on the basis of their work have been persecuted and here is a man who wants to 'understand !!! I do not blame the so called Hinduism ..The Vedas clearly state of treating everyone equal ..a bunch of pujaris who called themselves brahamins hacked away people wanting to study the Vedas ..do you know why ??? had they studied they wouldnt be slaves and wouldnt have carried their night soil !

Look man ..understand one thing straight ..India is my country and such a irrational statement from someone who calls himself a strict hindu and brahmin expecting dalits to convert cannot be taken for a joke okay ?

Do you know who is the best Hindu ?? it is the Khalsa ..they have continued to carry on with the best traditions of this land and separated themselves ..i know there is caste followed in the pinds but ideally speaking ..there is no place for caste.

There are shaloks in the Vedas describing the langar tradition and treating everyone equally..who is follow the Vedas ??? is it the brahmins ??? does a brahman even open the Vedas in his lifetime ..???

If the integrity of this country is being broken ..then be it hindu sikh or muslim ..no one should be spared ..you get it ?

[Amandeep Hindustani]

Do you understand what you are talking ? Dalits should leave your house since rest of your fellow hindus will not treat them well ? You will not do anything to eradicate this issue ???? Why ? As a brahmin do you own Hinduism pvt. ltd ?

My appeal to dalit and non brahmins is ..throw out people who have castiest brhaminical mindsets ..get rid of them ..dont let them worship your Devte ...What is the populations of brahmins in India ? Barely 4% . What is the population of Dalits in India ? 16% . So mr. Amandeep you mean to say that to accomodate 4% traitors of this land who did nothing to protect India from invaders the rest of 16% should walk out ???? I hope you are not high on marijuana .

I am sorry for my words but i mean this . Enough !!! just enough of this dhoti choti waale ...i dont hate all brahmans but i know there is this crap sitting very deep inside their hearts that rest of the world should change for you .

You should be thankful to Dr. Babasaheb Amabedkar who asked the Dalits to convert to Buddhism and did not ask that crowd which had gathered to slaughter you.

Grow up man ! Because of such a mindset so much blood has been flowing . Again, sorry if you felt i had hatred for brahmins ..i dont. I hate the lot which follows the brahminical devils .

And dont think you are alone ..there is a brahmin devil sitting in the heads of jats , rajputs thakurs who have persecuted the lower castes and raped their daughters .

I dont want to pay for your mistakes ..before the sulle will be out of this face of the world , i would be happy to see such evil mindsets going extinct .

Yes, if this is how dalits are treated then definately they have a full right to leave hinduism. I will not oppose it. Maybe, I said it incorrectly. Perhaps that will be a wake up call for the elitist at the top to change their ways.

The question is not about Dalits alone - even they are subdividing themselves according to the documentary. It seems to be much worst in the rural areas. The documentary also visits punjab and talks to the Valmikis and takes a brief look at reservations and quotas.

[Amandeep Hindustani]

Do you understand what you are talking ? Dalits should leave your house since rest of your fellow hindus will not treat them well ? You will not do anything to eradicate this issue ???? Why ? As a brahmin do you own Hinduism pvt. ltd ?

My appeal to dalit and non brahmins is ..throw out people who have castiest brhaminical mindsets ..get rid of them ..dont let them worship your Devte ...What is the populations of brahmins in India ? Barely 4% . What is the population of Dalits in India ? 16% . So mr. Amandeep you mean to say that to accomodate 4% traitors of this land who did nothing to protect India from invaders the rest of 16% should walk out ???? I hope you are not high on marijuana .

I am sorry for my words but i mean this . Enough !!! just enough of this dhoti choti waale ...i dont hate all brahmans but i know there is this crap sitting very deep inside their hearts that rest of the world should change for you .

You should be thankful to Dr. Babasaheb Amabedkar who asked the Dalits to convert to Buddhism and did not ask that crowd which had gathered to slaughter you.

Grow up man ! Because of such a mindset so much blood has been flowing . Again, sorry if you felt i had hatred for brahmins ..i dont. I hate the lot which follows the brahminical devils .

And dont think you are alone ..there is a brahmin devil sitting in the heads of jats , rajputs thakurs who have persecuted the lower castes and raped their daughters .

I dont want to pay for your mistakes ..before the sulle will be out of this face of the world , i would be happy to see such evil mindsets going extinct .

Calling Brahmins as traitors is extremely biased. Some of the big shots from history were Brahmin - The Maratha Peshwa Sardars that conquored South, Central India and then planted the flag of hinduism in Northern India while decimating muslim powers in the region were brahmins. As was Laxmi Bhai, Chandershekhar Azad, RajGuru, Sukhdev, Chankaya, Parmeshwar Dutt and others. How about Raja Dahir?

It also ignores their contribution to science, philosophy, politics, mathematics, language, business, poetry which is unparalleled for a community that is so small. People like yourselves are still eating from this work and perhaps you dont even know it.

Every major movement in Indian history, you can name it , was ordered by or led by brahmins. Bhakti movement, freedom fights, maoists, communists, naxalites, RSS, Arya Samaj, Brahmo Samaj and perhaps even sikhism itself.

[dalsingh101]

Bro no one is getting above this ..even in muslims this is existing ..to escape caste people converted but arent going anywhere ..

I don't think Sikhs should be looking at other communities failings and excusing their own by them.

Caste in Sikhs is a result of certain people who call themselves Sikh thinking they are innately supreme to other Sikhs by virtue of their caste. No bahman told them to do this, many of these people don't generally affiliate or even respect bahmans.

It just looks like you've excused this behaviour in our community by pointing out that others also do it - that doesn't wash. Blaming outsiders is also weak bro.

[BhagatSingh]

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

I don't think Sikhs should be looking at other communities failings and excusing their own by them.

Caste in Sikhs is a result of certain people who call themselves Sikh thinking they are innately supreme to other Sikhs by virtue of their caste. No bahman told them to do this, many of these people don't generally affiliate or even respect bahmans.

It just looks like you've excused this behaviour in our community by pointing out that others also do it - that doesn't wash. Blaming outsiders is also weak bro.

The point is we know where it came from, how it came and whence it came. The problem now is how to send it packing from where we are standing. Any by we, I mean the Sikh community. Not any other community but us. Nice point regarding the bahman thing.

[Amandeep Hindustani]

The Brahmin (correct word) has no presence in the Punjab, or does he behind the scenes? And please don't bring the line "If we converted to sikhism or buddhism then everything would ok because both religions outlaw casteism"

Not so, I can find very few teachings from sikhism or buddhism that say casteism should be destroyed or eliminated. Instead, I find the founders of both religions repeatedly refer to caste, and say that deeds determine caste not birth. Meaning there is caste and people can go and up down based on their deeds.

To Sundarika Bhâradvâja, the brahmin who inquired about his lineage, the Buddha answered:

"No Brahmin I, no prince,

No farmer, or aught else.

All worldly ranks I know,

But knowing go my way

as simply nobody:

Homeless, in pilgrim garb,

With shaven crown, I go

my way alone, serene.

To ask my birth is vain."

n41

On one occasion a caste-ridden brahmin insulted the Buddha saying. "Stop, thou shaveling! Stop, thou outcast!"

The Master, without any feeling of indignation, gently replied:

"Birth makes not a man an outcast,

Birth makes not a man a brahmin;

Action makes a man an outcast,

Action makes a man a brahmin."

(Sutta-nipâta, 142)

Edited April 4, 2014 by Amandeep Hindustani

[Amandeep Hindustani]

So is the caste system unjust or the way its practiced (by birth)

We all know the story of Valmiki who was a robber that strangled people and ate them. He was a shudra (outcaste) for his deeds. The only words he knew were "mar mar" which mean roughly "kill kill" until he was instructed to reverse those two words into "raam naam" or "ram ram" and he eventually became a saint, wrote the ramayan and occupies a special place in hinduism.

[Amandeep Hindustani]

Part 2 - has a section about sikhism and caste. Starts at 24.30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If2Vad5NjD8

Edited April 4, 2014 by Amandeep Hindustani

[jaikaara]

Brother ...caste or varna is by virtue as in the Vedas ..however as time has passed the varnas became communities which means a person from one varna couldnt go to another varna ..i had a emotional outburst when you said they should convert ..i apologize ..just that i was hurt ..since it is this attitude that has destroyed us .

Had this great nation been one would any alexander have entered India ? Would a Ghori or Ghazni or a Abdali think about desecrating our relgious asthaans ? Would the Mughals or British or the Portuguese would have ruled us ???

Please understand my concern ..my concern is not that you are a brahmin ..my concern is ..when you showed that hallow around you saying you were a strict hindu brahmin and then what followed is that the dalits should convert ...that is where it hit me ..

What message are we giving brother ? Reading history makes us cry . We were so many and we still couldnt save ourselves !!!! Why ? Because we have this caste , class creed distinctions . My forefathers were kshatriyas should i have rajput pride ? I cant. The real Rajput amongst us was Rana Partap and who was besides him ..the Bheels ..the tribesman with basic weapons . Chhatrapati Shivaji who created lions out of meek peasants ..who was besides him ..The Mavlas ..again simple people ...Guru Gobindsingh ji Maharaj did not enjoy support of the moustache twirling kshatriyas ..The Hill Rajas were loyal to the Mughals . the Khalsa Fauj was made up of such simple non martial race . Guru Sahib made them roaring Lions .

We have lost our land, our respect and our unity. Let us try to gain this back. I have pointed out earlier brother that none of the Panths and Sampardays in India is bereft of caste conflicts even though their creators wanted to destroy it . The basic problem is us ..we did not pay heed to the advice of our Gurus our Sants ...

[jaikaara]

I don't think Sikhs should be looking at other communities failings and excusing their own by them.

Caste in Sikhs is a result of certain people who call themselves Sikh thinking they are innately supreme to other Sikhs by virtue of their caste. No bahman told them to do this, many of these people don't generally affiliate or even respect bahmans.

It just looks like you've excused this behaviour in our community by pointing out that others also do it - that doesn't wash. Blaming outsiders is also weak bro.

I get your point bro...i am not blaming just the brahmins ..i am blaming everyone who has contributed to the growth of caste system . For that case i had a strong arguement with some Dalit activists who were doing brhamin thrashing in their speeches ..i quoted cases and asked them to point out the brahmin factor . The fact was the recent conflicts of say the past 30-40 years has no high caste ..it is O.B.C versus dalit .

What just irritated me was that a man proudly putting up his caste and instead of accepting the blame is wanting the victims to move on to other religions . That didnt sound fair bro

[Amarjeet Singh_1737]

Brother ...caste or varna is by virtue as in the Vedas ..however as time has passed the varnas became communities which means a person from one varna couldnt go to another varna ..i had a emotional outburst when you said they should convert ..i apologize ..just that i was hurt ..since it is this attitude that has destroyed us .

Had this great nation been one would any alexander have entered India ? Would a Ghori or Ghazni or a Abdali think about desecrating our relgious asthaans ? Would the Mughals or British or the Portuguese would have ruled us ???

Please understand my concern ..my concern is not that you are a brahmin ..my concern is ..when you showed that hallow around you saying you were a strict hindu brahmin and then what followed is that the dalits should convert ...that is where it hit me ..

What message are we giving brother ? Reading history makes us cry . We were so many and we still couldnt save ourselves !!!! Why ? Because we have this caste , class creed distinctions . My forefathers were kshatriyas should i have rajput pride ? I cant. The real Rajput amongst us was Rana Partap and who was besides him ..the Bheels ..the tribesman with basic weapons . Chhatrapati Shivaji who created lions out of meek peasants ..who was besides him ..The Mavlas ..again simple people ...Guru Gobindsingh ji Maharaj did not enjoy support of the moustache twirling kshatriyas ..The Hill Rajas were loyal to the Mughals . the Khalsa Fauj was made up of such simple non martial race . Guru Sahib made them roaring Lions .

We have lost our land, our respect and our unity. Let us try to gain this back. I have pointed out earlier brother that none of the Panths and Sampardays in India is bereft of caste conflicts even though their creators wanted to destroy it . The basic problem is us ..we did not pay heed to the advice of our Gurus our Sants ...

'Brother?'

[jaikaara]

all of us are brothers ..yaar ..ki hoya ?

[OnPathToSikhi]

all of us are brothers ..yaar ..ki hoya ?

"Amandeep Hindustani" has already been kicked out of this forum once (at least that I know of). He is back with a new id. He is know for his supremacist trash talks. He has openly admitted that Sikhs deserved the '84 massacre. Now you can decide if you are his "brother"

Edited April 4, 2014 by OnPathToSikhi

[Amandeep Hindustani]

"Amandeep Hindustani" has already been kicked out of this forum once (at least that I know of). He is back with a new id. He is know for his supremacist trash talks. He has openly admitted that Sikhs deserved the '84 massacre. Now you can decide if you are his "brother"

Ah...no. I never ever said sikhs deserved 84 massacre. I think you have the ability to check all the posts that I have made and perhaps cite some?

On the contrary I have repeatedly said both sides should fess up to whatever they did, take the neccessary action to make sure it does not happen again.

[Amandeep Hindustani]

I get your point bro...i am not blaming just the brahmins ..i am blaming everyone who has contributed to the growth of caste system . For that case i had a strong arguement with some Dalit activists who were doing brhamin thrashing in their speeches ..i quoted cases and asked them to point out the brahmin factor . The fact was the recent conflicts of say the past 30-40 years has no high caste ..it is O.B.C versus dalit .

What just irritated me was that a man proudly putting up his caste and instead of accepting the blame is wanting the victims to move on to other religions . That didnt sound fair bro

You know you could be proud of your tribe, race, colour, caste, lineage. religion but still be non-oppressive towards others. Millions of people do it.

I never blamed the "victims" but said that if hinduism cannot learn to treat these people well like I am seeing in this documentary then why cry when these people move onto other religions.

Hindu society needs to change. This "chalta hai" attitude towards these poor people is disgusting. And that stupid fat baman with the sunglasses that keeps on popping up in the documentary needs a beat down.

[jaikaara]

Brother it is not just Hindus but all the people in India in general.

[Amandeep Hindustani]

Brother it is not just Hindus but all the people in India in general.

True. Hopefully, there will be development in these rural areas because that alone will cool down tensions.

[dalsingh101]

From a Sikh perspective, brahmins are out of the equation. Caste nastiness comes from other quarters.