Deeper Insight Towards Meat Debate (Veggie Vs Non Veggie)

[paapiman]

What about a person who is allergic to dairy products. ? Should we allow him non veg diet or he/she should remain unhealthy? Milk is one the thing that many doctors and nutritionists say to avoid if you have allergies.

Paaji, this is a tough one. In this situation, one must consult Panj Pyaray or a Saint. 

Do they say to avoid all dairy products or only milk?

Bhul chuk maaf

[Koi]

[CdnSikhGirl]

Paapiman this is why we are pointing out that meat is not prohibited. Nowhere does it say in Gurbani that meat is disallowed. In fact the wording against the hypocrisy actually points to it being allowed the way Guru Ji points out life is in everything - as you also just confirmed.  The hypocrisy is in saying refraining from meat you are somehow more spiritual... It has nothing at all to do with spirituality aside from keeping our bodies healthy.  And human body was meant to process animal proteins.  We are omnivores and you can't escape it.  

The very same arguments you are using against vegan diet is the very same reasons why you can't then use the argument that meat is prohibited but milk is allowed.  By doing so you are the hypocrite Guru Ji was speaking against. 

So just eat what you need whether meat whether dairy whether eggs etc but not to excess (simply) and not killed the Muslim way - it's the ritualistic and sacrificial aspect and suffering to the animal which is being condemned with halal and not the meat itself.

Panj pyaras told us at Amrit eating meat is our choice but just Halal and by extension also kosher are disallowed.  

[Xylitol]

a bit off topic but this seems like a good place to post this. Almost everyone is mineral deficient b/c of our modern agriculture methods.

I felt a lot more energized after taking morningstar multiminerals. I recommend that you guys supplement with this. http://ca.iherb.com/Morningstar-Minerals-Immune-Boost-77-Mineral-Supplement-120-Veggie-Caps/16754

 

The only people who actually don't need supplementary nutrition are those who have eaten biodynamic organic for a very long time. 

[kdsingh80]

Paaji, this is a tough one. In this situation, one must consult Panj Pyaray or a Saint. 

Do they say to avoid all dairy products or only milk?

Bhul chuk maaf

for  many illnesses they say reduce milk and diary products but if you  are strictly allergic to milk then diary products are big no.

[CdnSikhGirl]

for  many illnesses they say reduce milk and diary products but if you  are strictly allergic to milk then diary products are big no.

Those who are lactose intolerant, like my Mother can not eat cheese, can not eat yogurt, can not drink milk, or even use a tiny bit of cream in coffee without suffering a few hours later.  And let me tell you the symptoms can be severe. Cramping, Diarrhea (sometimes violently), Nausea, Vomiting... etc.  And thats just lactose intolerance, there's a high level of actual milk allergy too on top of that.  Adult humans are not actually designed to process breast milk.  Eggs in this case are a way better source of proteins. It's very difficult to obtain protein from vegan diet but it CAN be done with lentils, beans and other legumes and even peanuts (which are legumes and not actually nuts).  If someone is avoiding meat for whatever reason, and wishes not to kill, then eat eggs from an organic free range farm where no males are allowed access to the hens, so that there is no chance of fertilization and no chance of male chicks who were born accidentally, being killed.  You can not escape it with milk though, calves will die no matter what.  It's a matter of numbers and that its impossible to maintain all the calves.  

 

[paapiman]

for  many illnesses they say reduce milk and diary products but if you  are strictly allergic to milk then diary products are big no.

Bro, these cases are exceptional instances. We cannot use such cases to change the rules of Sikhism. 

Example: At times, when one goes for a surgery, hair removal is required. There is no option available. Some people have a medical problem with keeping long hair too. Daas personally knows of two such people. These instances cannot be used, by ordinary healthy humans, to justify killing hair (a cardinal sin in Sikhism).

Btw, how common is allergy to milk among Punjabi Indians?

Bhul chuk maaf

[Xylitol]

A person can get all the protein they need from a vegan diet pretty easily. 

[paapiman]

Vegan diet (not Lacto-vegetarian) lacks in the following nutrients:

 

Quote

In fact, B12 deficiency is very common in vegans, one study showing that a whopping 92% of vegans are deficient in this critical nutrient (1).

But B12 is just the tip of the iceberg… there are other lesser known nutrients that are only found in animal foods and are critical for optimal function of the body.

Here are a few examples:

• Animal protein contains all the essential amino acids in the right ratios. It is important for muscle mass and bone health, to name a few. Vegans don’t get any animal protein, which can have negative effects on body composition (2, 3, 4, 5).
• Creatine helps form an energy reservoir in cells. Studies show that vegetarians are deficient in creatine, which has harmful effects on muscle and brain function (6, 7,8).
• Carnosine is protective against various degenerative processes in the body and may protect against aging. It is found only in animal foods (9, 10, 11).
• Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) is the most active form of Omega-3 fatty acids in the body and primarily found in animal foods. The plant form of Omega-3s, ALA, is inefficiently converted to DHA in the body (12, 13, 14).

 Unquote [1]

[1] - http://authoritynutrition.com/top-5-reasons-why-vegan-diets-are-a-terrible-idea/

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

Bad effects of meat eating, as mentioned in Gurbani Path Darpan (written by a Brahamgyani).

 

Bhul chuk maaf

 

[Guest]

B12 fortified vegan products like soy milk etc can easily be found in vast majority of grocery stores all around the world.  The B12 is sourced from spirulina, algae etc and sometimes bacteria in soil.  So simply by replacing dairy milk with rice milk, soy milk, almond milk etc you will be just fine. 

As a side note, eggs contain much more B12 than milk does, so if you drink milk but refuse eggs you might want to reconsider trying eggs.  You still won't be eating meat as eggs are not considered meat, in fact the basic make-up of milk and eggs are very similar.

[paapiman]

B12 fortified vegan products like soy milk etc can easily be found in vast majority of grocery stores all around the world.  The B12 is sourced from spirulina, algae etc and sometimes bacteria in soil.  So simply by replacing dairy milk with rice milk, soy milk, almond milk etc you will be just fine. 
 

Guest jee, what about the other nutrients mentioned above?

 

As a side note, eggs contain much more B12 than milk does, so if you drink milk but refuse eggs you might want to reconsider trying eggs.  You still won't be eating meat as eggs are not considered meat, in fact the basic make-up of milk and eggs are very similar.

One cannot compare milk (sacred food and approved in Gurbani) to eggs (menstrual waste of an animal). This has been discussed before on this forum.

For more details, please have a look below.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Guest]

First of all, chickens do not have menstrual periods as you are thinking, but even then, an egg is not waste. Think of it this way, cow breastmilk provides nutrients for a baby cow which has been born (yes it was meant for the baby cow not you).  There is a reason that eggs and milk and very very similar in composition. It's because eggs are the food for unborn chicks in the same way milk provides for an animal that is born. So they are not waste by any meaning of the word.  The waste is in letting this important source of protein and nutrients go to waste haha. Unlike with the dairy industry there is no baby cows being killed so that milk can be produced.  Hens lay eggs no matter what, so unfertilized hens will still produce eggs.  No baby chicks are killed in the process unlike with milk where baby cows ARE killed and there is no way to get around it.  Eggs are far more humane than diary.  If you consume milk, then you approve of killing baby cows, which means you can not then say meat is disallowed because of killing.  If you disapprove of killing animals, then give up milk.  All of the required nutrients are found in fortified vegan milks like rice milk, almond milk, soy milk.

 

[paapiman]

First of all, chickens do not have menstrual periods as you are thinking, but even then, an egg is not waste. Think of it this way, cow breastmilk provides nutrients for a baby cow which has been born (yes it was meant for the baby cow not you).  There is a reason that eggs and milk and very very similar in composition. It's because eggs are the food for unborn chicks in the same way milk provides for an animal that is born. So they are not waste by any meaning of the word.  The waste is in letting this important source of protein and nutrients go to waste haha. Unlike with the dairy industry there is no baby cows being killed so that milk can be produced.  Hens lay eggs no matter what, so unfertilized hens will still produce eggs.  No baby chicks are killed in the process unlike with milk where baby cows ARE killed and there is no way to get around it.  Eggs are far more humane than diary.  If you consume milk, then you approve of killing baby cows, which means you can not then say meat is disallowed because of killing.  If you disapprove of killing animals, then give up milk.  All of the required nutrients are found in fortified vegan milks like rice milk, almond milk, soy milk.

 

Are you a registered member of this forum?

Bhul chul maaf

[Ragmaala]

Are you a registered member of this forum?

Bhul chul maaf

haha its satkiin bro

[CdnSikhGirl]

haha its satkiin bro

who is me?  Not every Guest on the forum is me hahaha  If its me I will put the SK at work at the bottom...  kdsingh80 also posted about killing calves!  I'm not the only one! lol.  

[Ragmaala]

who is me?  Not every Guest on the forum is me hahaha  If its me I will put the SK at work at the bottom...  kdsingh80 also posted about killing calves!  I'm not the only one! lol.  

hehe

[Ragmaala]

:(

 

 

 

 

 

 

jus kidin

[CdnSikhGirl]

:(

 

jus kidin

it's actually kinda funny lol

[paapiman]

haha its satkiin bro

You might be right bro.

Bhul chuk maaf