Who is Sehajdhari Sikh?

[SikhKhoj]

I have given several contemponary Sikhs of Guru Gobind Singh who may never have taken pahul in my previous posts. Sehajdhari Head Granthi and leader of congregations according to Hukamnamas is the most solid example one can get. The place where Khalsa was finalized (Kesgarh) had a Sehajdhari head granthi, what else do you need as proof.

Bhai Nand Lal 'Singh' is the revisionist version of our history where all things that do not conform to certain groups ideologies are whitewashed. Just like Hakikat Rai 'Singh' or Kanhaiya 'Singh'.

[paapiman]

I have given several contemponary Sikhs of Guru Gobind Singh who may never have taken pahul in my previous posts. Sehajdhari Head Granthi and leader of congregations according to Hukamnamas is the most solid example one can get. The place where Khalsa was finalized (Kesgarh) had a Sehajdhari head granthi, what else do you need as proof.

​Can anyone confirm that the Sikhs, who did not take Khanday da amrit, did not consume any other form of amrit? Did they go through any other form of ceremony for "Guru-dharna"?

We also need to remember that Sikhs of the tenth master, pre-1699, had taken charan pahul. They were effectively amritdharis, even if they did not have the surname of Singh.

Bhai Nand Lal 'Singh' is the revisionist version of our history where all things that do not conform to certain groups ideologies are whitewashed. Just like Hakikat Rai 'Singh' or Kanhaiya 'Singh'.

​So, who is Baba Nand Lal jee Mirdhang then? Which Baba Nand Lal was given the surname of Mirdhang?

Shaheed Haqiqat Rai jee was a Sehajdhari Sikh, one of his parents was a Hindu.

People, who intentionally try to change historical facts, are committing a sin. One can term something written in a historical account as anti-Gurmat ( ex - Fifth master taking sixth master to Sitala devi mandir - debunked by Bhai saab Bhai Vir Singh jee), but one should not change any accounts, to suit his own ideology.

Bhul chuk maaf

Edited July 4, 2015 by paapiman

[paapiman]

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Edited August 19, 2015 by paapiman

[paapiman]

Another piece of evidence which proves that Baba Kanahiya jee took Guru Dheekheya. 

Quote

Bhai Ji (referring to Baba Kanahiya jee) went forward and placed his head at His lotus feet, paying his obeisance. Maharaj Ji's (ninth master) divine vision instantly electrified him, and he felt he had found his beloved. Maharaj Ji initiated Bhai Ji and gave him Gurmantar, and explained him the methods of Naam Simaran and explained Rehat.

Unquote[1]

[1] - http://www.sikhawareness.com/topic/17072-celebrating-the-sweet-memory-of-the-eternally-celebrated-bhai-sahib-bhai-kanhaiya-ji-maharaj-epitome-of-naam-compassion-and-obedience-sep-20/#comment-153657

Bhul chuk maaf

Edited September 19, 2015 by paapiman

[paapiman]

Dargah Mal was diwan of 7th to 9th Guru and Dharam Chand diwan of 10th Guru. Dharam Chand was thus born in a Sikh family (their ancestors were Sikhs of the 5th Guru).

A Hukamnama from 1704 still refers to Dharam Chand with the same name meaning he did not take Pahul.

So, what about your theory now? (source: "Some unknown Hukumnamas of Guru Gobind Singh")

Sikhkhoj had claimed that Diwan Dharam Chand did not partake Amrit, but he was incorrect. Please have a look below.

 

 

Reference: Guru Kian Saakhian

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[JustAnotherSingh]

To say that all Sikhs historically were Amritdharis is complete revisionism. Again, what do you make of people like Kaura Mal who were loyal to the Khalsa, followed Sikh teachings, but were not Khalsa by identity? If you go to Sindh today, you can see a lot of Sahejdhari Hindu-Sikhs who never take Amrit but still practice Sikhi.

One must also note that there are different "degrees" of being Sahejdhari: It seems even historically, there was a difference between those who still followed Khalsa identity but didn't strictly follow the tenants of the Rehits (similar to most mone today), and those who were essentially Hindu but blended it with Sikh practice (like most Punjabi Hindus today who still go to Gurdwara). 

[amardeep]

How many Sehajdhari Sikhs are there left in Sindh, Pakistan?

[JustAnotherSingh]

Official stats are difficult to pull up for the same reason they were in early colonial Punjab--how do they know whether to identify as "Hindu" or "Sikh" in the census polls? I can tell from personal experience that pretty much all the Sindhi Hindus I know (they do not live in Sindh currently, they're a diaspora that moved to India in 1947 from their original home) are Sahejdhari Sikhs. The views of Gurus, Gurdwara, everything is mostly the same; only thing is that they don't have any of the Khalsa symbols. The numbers in Pakistan would be even more difficult to ascertain; I know there's a Rajput lord based there, but he's definitely not Sikh.

The famous Bollywood actor, Ranveer Singh, is also a Sindhi Sahejdhari Sikh. "Singh" is not his actual name, as most Sindhis do not carry Singh either; he picked it up later to sound more glorious. 

Edited November 1, 2015 by JustAnotherSingh

[jaikaara]

9 hours ago, JustAnotherSingh said:

Official stats are difficult to pull up for the same reason they were in early colonial Punjab--how do they know whether to identify as "Hindu" or "Sikh" in the census polls? I can tell from personal experience that pretty much all the Sindhi Hindus I know (they do not live in Sindh currently, they're a diaspora that moved to India in 1947 from their original home) are Sahejdhari Sikhs. The views of Gurus, Gurdwara, everything is mostly the same; only thing is that they don't have any of the Khalsa symbols. The numbers in Pakistan would be even more difficult to ascertain; I know there's a Rajput lord based there, but he's definitely not Sikh.

The famous Bollywood actor, Ranveer Singh, is also a Sindhi Sahejdhari Sikh. "Singh" is not his actual name, as most Sindhis do not carry Singh either; he picked it up later to sound more glorious. 

Sindhi Sikhs are Nanakpanthi ...they are being 'whitewashed ' too by our SGPC these days , i am part of a jatha which has Sindhi Sikhs in higher numbers than keshdhari Sikhs ..they are pretty much more committed and its like if you ask them bhai ki haal aa..they answer back Guru Nanak sahib ki full kirpa ! :)

I use to live in Mumbai years back and there was a Sindhi Gurughar with a 5 feet high Guru Nanakdev ji's moorti

[JustAnotherSingh]

7 hours ago, jaikaara said:

Sindhi Sikhs are Nanakpanthi ...they are being 'whitewashed ' too by our SGPC these days , i am part of a jatha which has Sindhi Sikhs in higher numbers than keshdhari Sikhs ..they are pretty much more committed and its like if you ask them bhai ki haal aa..they answer back Guru Nanak sahib ki full kirpa ! :)

I use to live in Mumbai years back and there was a Sindhi Gurughar with a 5 feet high Guru Nanakdev ji's moorti

Super interesting! Are they just Nanakpanthis though? The few Sindhi Sikhs I knew revered all the Gurus.

Yeah, it is rather sad that like you said they're being scrubbed out of the authentic history. I am not a Nanakpanthi and personally identify with the Khalsa, but I don't see why we can't make room for more diversity in the Panth for all people who love Guru and express that whatever way they did.

[dalsingh101]

 <quote>a Sindhi Gurughar with a 5 feet high Guru Nanakdev ji's moorti</quote>

 

I don't know about this though. 

[jaikaara]

13 hours ago, JustAnotherSingh said:

Super interesting! Are they just Nanakpanthis though? The few Sindhi Sikhs I knew revered all the Gurus.

Yeah, it is rather sad that like you said they're being scrubbed out of the authentic history. I am not a Nanakpanthi and personally identify with the Khalsa, but I don't see why we can't make room for more diversity in the Panth for all people who love Guru and express that whatever way they did.

Yes they revere all the Gurus of course but if i  am not wrong they have been influenced from the Udasi Panth of Baba
Srichand ji , it is just like the Nihangs who revere all the Gurus however their focus is Guru Gobindsingh ji .

[jaikaara]

11 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

 <quote>a Sindhi Gurughar with a 5 feet high Guru Nanakdev ji's moorti</quote>

 

I don't know about this though. 

It is common is old Sindh Tikana as they call their Gurughars

[paapiman]

On 7/2/2015, 12:36:19, BhagatSingh said:

Source?

The below confirms that Srimaan Baba Kanhaiya jee Maharaaj took khanda da amrit too.

 

 

Reference: http://www.scribd.com/doc/289767186/Bhai-Sahib-Bhai-Kanhaiya-Ji-Maharaj

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

On 11/1/2015 at 4:12 PM, JustAnotherSingh said:

To say that all Sikhs historically were Amritdharis is complete revisionism. Again, what do you make of people like Kaura Mal who were loyal to the Khalsa, followed Sikh teachings, but were not Khalsa by identity?

Bro, Diwan Kaura Mal jee was a Hindu (Sehajdhari). You do not have to a Sikh, to be loyal to Khalsa Panth. There were possibly many Muslims, who were loyal to the Khalsa too.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

@amardeep - Bro, you had made the following comment.

Quote

What about the udasis? They weren't Sikhs either according to you?

Unquote

 

Please listen to Sant jee below (after 1:00 min). Sant jee mentions about Charan Pahul received by a Mahapurakh by Srimaan Baba Sri Chand jee Maharaaj.

 

Daas is assuming that Udhasis do go through a Baptism ceremony. Similarly, it is possible that even Sewapanthis of the olden times, had some sort of Baptism ceremony. Gurparsaad, will try to confirm this information.

If they do, they cannot be classified as Niguray (according to Gurbani), unlike people born in Sikh families, who don't go through any ceremony and claim to be Sikhs.

Bottom line - Nigurapan has to be eliminated with some procedure, as it is considered to be very very bad in Gurmat.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Guest Jungchamkaur]

The Hindus in sindh like Punjabi Hindus worship guru granth sahib and are staunch hindus and sufis.. It isn't against Hinduism to pray to guru granth sahib as all Hindus consider sikhs as part and parcel of hinduism

.. The rajput Rana hamir Singh sodha and his clansmen are also followers of Sufi pirs and gurus yet maintain their hindu identity And know how to read history and gurbani as it was read pre Singh sabha era.

[Guest brahmgyani sikh khoj]

Quote

The famous Bollywood actor, Ranveer Singh, is also a Sindhi Sahejdhari Sikh. "Singh" is not his actual name, as most Sindhis do not carry Singh either; he picked it up later to sound more glorious.

Ranveers grandfather was actually a keshdhari sikh and had the name Singh. its from there that he picked up Singh. 

[kdsingh80]

12 hours ago, Guest brahmgyani sikh khoj said:

Ranveers grandfather was actually a keshdhari sikh and had the name Singh. its from there that he picked up Singh. 

This really surprise me as so many bollywood actors has sikh ancestors but hardly anyone now call himself sikh because of fear of not wearing turban or keeping uncut hair..Many of these still have faith in Gurdwara and go their , we had lost so many and still losing because of orthodox attitude of few people. Many now call themselves as gurdwara going Hindu's rather than clean shaven sikhs

[paapiman]

On 4/22/2016 at 0:15 PM, paapiman said:

Daas is assuming that Udhasis do go through a Baptism ceremony.

Udhasis go through the Charan Pahul ceremony to get Baptized. Their Gurmantar is Satnam.

Source - Matra Sahib Ji by Kamalpreet Singh Pardeshi

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Guest guest]

On 3 July 2015 at 3:50 PM, paapiman said:

 Now, the question is -- can someone confirm that they did not receive any form of amrit? Maybe they did receive amrit, but not khanday da amrit.

how is someone supposed to confirm that?

and logically, shouldn't you ask "can someone confirm if they took another form of Amrit"?, because it doesn't make sense to ask someone to prove a negative (learnt that from Ayn Rand!)

[Guest guest]

On 4 June 2015 at 1:09 AM, paapiman said:

Cutting hair = root of sikhi = big sin = no Sikhi = patit

where in SGGS does it say this?

[paapiman]

15 hours ago, Guest guest said:

where in SGGS does it say this?

If an Amritdhari cuts his kesh, then he becomes a Patit. Killing Kesh is one of the cardinals sins in Sikhism.

For non-Amritdharis (born in Sikh families), they will be classified as Niguray, not Patits.

Please have a look below for more details:

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Guest guest]

6 hours ago, paapiman said:

If an Amritdhari cuts his kesh, then he becomes a Patit. Killing Kesh is one of the cardinals sins in Sikhism.

For non-Amritdharis (born in Sikh families), they will be classified as Niguray, not Patits.

Please have a look below for more details:

 

Bhul chuk maaf

You have not answered the question.  Neither has that thread.  

[paapiman]

18 hours ago, Guest guest said:

You have not answered the question.  Neither has that thread.  

Guest jee - Check the post in that thread, where an audio link has been provided.

 

Bhul chuk maaf