Sant Hari Singh Ji Randhawale and pissed off members grilling him on woman equality

[Singh123456777]

I think this lurker is Satkiran cause they have similar thinking at a similar way of writing.

[Singh123456777]

It's not a matter of impure or not. It's a matter of cleanliness. If I have a wound on my arm and I covered it up with gauze and bandage but it's stained with pus and blood would I come and sit and do seva of maharaj Ji? No. I would change the bandage and wait till my wound heals so I can do seva. 

[Singh123456777]

A woman never become impure. If a woman became impure than my mother and sister are impure as well then. Is taking a crap impure? No it isn't but is it clean? No it isn't. Is periods impure no but is it clean no. Cleanliness is what's important. There is only impure actions and impure thoughts. 

 

So this is for both men and women. If you are not clean either it be a wound, menstruation, sickness, diarrhea etc then you should refrain from doing maharaj seva but you can do other seva such as degh or langar or Kirtan etc. 

[sukrit kaur]

If one can do seva of degh or langar then what remains beside?

Okay Veer Ji,let it take in context of GUrubani.

We are all moorkhs .

Please share any Gurbani tuk,or GURU sahib's Saakhi or any GURU SAHIB'S words which clearly claim that women are impure during menstruation??? It can really change the side of one's mind.

Gur fateh!!

[SikhKhoj]

*edit

Edited June 6, 2015 by SikhKhoj

[Guest]

Please tell me why if cleanliness is the issue, why is langar seva ok, where one has to work with FOOD?  Certainly langar would be more an issue than akhand paaths etc. if cleanliness were the issue? No it's not a cleanliness issue.  Women are not dripping blood on Guru Granth Sahib Ji if they are menstruating.  Just like you would wash your hands after using restroom so too would a Bibi who is on her period.  And she would use hygiene products that make sure nothing leaks.  

There were Babas known to have had issues with piles, and that didn't stop them from seva.  Menstruation blood is not dirty... however blood leaking from piles coming from the anus very much IS since fecal matter would be present.  These Babas I guarantee did not use hygiene products like females would during their periods in order to contain it either.  And though the names escape me right now, you can easily find the information online. 

If cleanliness were TRULY the issue, then langar seva would be a big no no.  But we can't go without our food can we, and the men don't often step up to cook.  

 

[SikhKhoj]

 

So this is for both men and women. If you are not clean either it be a wound, menstruation, sickness, diarrhea etc then you should refrain from doing maharaj seva but you can do other seva such as degh or langar or Kirtan etc. 

​

So when you're 'unclean' you can do langar seva but not maharaj seva. That is what you are saying Singh123...

BTW, based on what do you decide that menstruating women can do langar and degh seva but not maharaj seva? Whats your basis, either from Guru Granth Sahib or Gur Ithaas? I don't want to hear some Babas name.

 

[paapiman]

To claim some things right which are no where mentioned in Gurbani and are even proved wrong is just a simple example of human ignorance or so called man made rules.To say no one can eat meat by giving man made reasons , by saying no women are not allowed to do seva during menstruation , or saying women can never be equal to men or saying a mona ,roda or patit can NEVER meet guru sahin or to say to take amrit is just the beginning and the end or to say non amritdhari can never be loved by Guru sahib or to say this particular jathebandi/sect is not  group of guru's sons are ALL man made rules....GURBANI is definitely not this!!!!!!!

​Certain rules (Rehat Maryada) are made in the Panth to help jagayasus/beginners to progress in their spiritual journeys. We cannot ignore these rules. They are very very important. Can you imagine a country without laws? It would be chaos. Rehat Maryada creates fear in the minds of people, which gradually turns into love.

 

We cannot use sakhis in our history to change the Rehat Maryada. Examples:

Satguru jee did kirpa on Nabi Khan and Gani Khan. Most likely, they were halal meat eaters. Does that mean, we should start eating halal meat or start serving halal meat in langar?
 

Most likely, Maharaaj must have done kirpa on naked sadhus too. Does that mean, we should start going naked to Gurudwaras?
 

Tenth master did kirpa on a Brahmin, who had immense love for Satguru jee. Does that mean, we should start following Brahmin rites and rituals?
 

Tenth master also once ate food with jhotay hands from a premi. Does that mean, we should stop washing our hands before eating?
 

Leave the love factor for God to decide. We must keep following maryada, without questioning it. Once a person reaches Brahamgyan, the situation changes.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

 

[paapiman]

BTW, based on what do you decide that menstruating women can do langar and degh seva but not maharaj seva? Whats your basis, either from Guru Granth Sahib or Gur Ithaas? I don't want to hear some Babas name.

​There is a sakhi, where two queens come to have darshan of tenth master. One of the queens, is on her periods and bows to Satguru jee. Maharaaj says something. I don't know the complete sakhi. If someone can provide the details, that would be great.

Bhul Chuk Maaf

[paapiman]

 

Please share any Gurbani tuk,or GURU sahib's Saakhi or any GURU SAHIB'S words which clearly claim that women are impure during menstruation??? It can really change the side of one's mind.

​Sister, it is common sense. A person becomes impure after urinating, bleeding, sweating, excreting, etc. Maharaaj says,

ਭਰੀਐ ਹਥੁ ਪੈਰੁ ਤਨੁ ਦੇਹ ॥

When the hands and the feet and the body are dirty,

ਪਾਣੀ ਧੋਤੈ ਉਤਰਸੁ ਖੇਹ ॥

water can wash away the dirt.

Here is an example. A woman is on her periods. She decides to go to Gurudwara to do Satguru jee's seva. She takes a bath and then goes. When she reaches Gurudwara, the bleeding starts again. Her body has become impure again. According to the above tuks, she needs to bath again with water, to wash away that dirt.

ਮੂਤ ਪਲੀਤੀ ਕਪੜੁ ਹੋਇ ॥

The word "ਪਲੀਤੀ " means ganda (dirty) or Apavitar (impure).

Maharaaj says in Gurbani that urine makes a cloth dirty/impure. If urine can make a cloth dirty, blood will definitely do so.

Bhul chuk maaf.

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

 

Edited June 6, 2015 by paapiman

[paapiman]

People here are comparing physical wounds, running noses and other things to menstruation. While menstruating may 'outwardly' appear 'dirty' it is a natural process unlike running noses and physical wounds. These latter things are 'situational' while menses are natures way of regulating a womans body to prepare her for an eventual pregnancy.

​Let's leave aside running nose, sore throat and other process which might be situational.

What about excretion and urination? According to Paathi maryada, a person must do full body ishnaan after excretion, in order to go back to Sachkhnad/tabeya for reading gurbani. After urination, panj ishnana are required. Bathing would be ideal even after urination. That is why, it is very important for paathis to follow a strict diet. 

A lady on her periods, will probably tire out by doing so many ishnaans. In addition, the possibility of her catching cold (especially in cold countries like Canada) will also increase.

Bhul chuk maaf.

[paapiman]

​Looks like thats not happening. Why don't you address this issue on community level with fellow male counter parts first then pointing out what female should do or not do.? I don't see you using same passion towards  the cause "men must also respect women"...do you really think sikh men are respecting woman as they should? Like basic human courtesy and consideration? 

 

​Root cause of the problem - not following Gurmat.

The situation is so so bad in our community. Approximately 40-50 % (rough estimate), of so-called Sikhs are committing a sin (cutting kesh), which is as sinful as incest. Most of the problems in our community will start disappearing gradually or will be minimized, once we start following Gurmat.

Bhul chuk maaf

Edited June 6, 2015 by paapiman

[paapiman]

or saying women can never be equal to men

​Who said that? Women and men, both can reach Brahamgyan. At that point, they are equal.

The reason in Gurmat, ordinary men and women are not considered equal is because, they are very different from each other, physically and mentally.

Quote

A study completed recently in December 2013 on nearly 1,000 brain scans has surprisingly confirmed what many of us thought…that there are major differences between the male & female brain.  Women’s and men’s brains are indeed wired in fundamentally different ways.

The research showed that on average, female brains are highly connected across the left and right hemispheres, and connections in male brains are typically stronger between the front and back regions. Men’s brains tend to perform tasks predominantly on the left-side, which is the logical/rational side of the brain. Women, on the other hand, use both sides of their brains because a woman’s brain has a larger Corpus Callosum, which means women can transfer data between the right and left hemispheres faster than men.

Unquote [1]

[1] - http://www.fitbrains.com/blog/page/2/

Furthermore,

Quote

• Brain Size & Brain Connections: Women’s brains are 8% smaller than men’s, but have more interconnections.  Women perform better at “bigger picture” & situational thinking while men do better on more specific spatial thinking (problem solving, and pattern prediction involving objects and their spatial relationships).
• Multi-tasking: Men tend to be better at learning and performing a single task, like cycling or navigating, and women are better at juggling different tasks at once.
• Social Context: Women are better at social thinking & interactions than men, while men are more abstract and task-orientated.  This is why women are normally better at communication while men more often prefer relying on themselves to get things done.
• Emotions: Women typically have a larger limbic system than men, which makes them more in touch and expressive with their emotions.  Women are usually more empathic and comprehensive in thinking, while men focus on exact issues and disregard impertinent information.  Men have a difficult time understanding emotions not explicitly verbalized but can think more logically, while women have a more wholesome view of thinking & understanding but their emotions can sometimes influence decisions.
• Math Skills: A brain area called the “Inferior-Parietal Lobule (IPL)” is normally larger in men than women.  This area is thought to control mathematical processes, which explains why men typically can perform mathematical tasks better than women.
• Pain: Women tend to perceive pain more intensely than men.  The Amygdala is the brain area activated when pain is felt. The right Amygdala is activated for men and the left Amygdala is activated for women. The right Amygdala has more connections with external functions while the left Amygdala has more connections with internal functions.
• Coordination & Movement: Men are generally better with coordination, controlling their movements, and have faster reaction times.
• Language: Women are more attuned to words and sounds and are normally better at learning languages.  This is also why men tend to have a harder time expressing emotions verbally.
• Memory: Women generally have better memory than men.  They have greater activity in the brain’s hippocampus, which is part of the brain that helps store memories. Studies have shown women are generally better at recalling words, names, faces, pictures, objects, and everyday events.
• Sense of Direction: Men has shown to have better visual-spatial & geographic memory and thinking, meaning they tend to have a better sense of direction and remembering where locations and areas are.
• Risks & Rewards: Men has a brain wired for risk-taking more than women.  Male brains get a bigger burst of endorphins, sensation of pleasure, when faced with a risky or challenging situation.  And the bigger the reward is, the more likely a man will take a risk.
• Senses & Sex: Men focus more on their visual sense, among other senses of perception; while women tend to use multiple senses. In terms of sexual activity, men are prevalently turned on by what they see, whereas women are turned on by multiple sources: ambience, touch, scent, as well as visual perception.

Unquote [1]

[1] - http://www.fitbrains.com/blog/page/2/

 

Tribal thinking or Advanced science (Gurmat)???

Bhul chuk maaf

Edited June 6, 2015 by paapiman

[ibrute]

I think sangat is enraged because they did not understand the issue at all, ladies thought that Giani Ji is disrespecting them by calling woman unequal to men and avapavitar at core by quoting Maharaja Jee Bani. Its not true. How can Giani Jee find Gurbani pangti's that women are impure when Guru Nanak Maharaj was Quoting "So manda aakhiye jit jameh raajan". And Guru Amar Das ji maharaj was in favor or remarry widows at that period of time. So, women and men are equal at all levels no doubt.

What Giani Jee was saying, was to acknowledge the purity of Guru Granth Sahib jee Maharaj Aasan (Throne) which applies to both men and women equally. Women are quoted especially because periods are natural and will happen to every women, so needs to get mentioned as precaution. Its a precautionary measure, in case blood from periods gets on to Guru Maharaj Bastars (Includes Sheets, underneath the Tabiaya Singh/kaur ). Period ladies are more than welcome to sit in sangat and listen.

Also, Giani was right for not having debate in presence of Guru sahib because usually debates gets heated and its highest order of disrespect raising ones voice in front of Guru jee.

Regarding doing paath, it is more than acceptable, as Gutka Sahib is in your hands away from body no disrespect there. The way ladies behaves raising their voice is the first sign of defeat in debate. Some one was saying sangat making langar is Ok during periods, I think they should discontunue and do some other sewa because langar was first offered to Guru sahib, there is possibility of blood transfer to food. So just keep in mind.

Also some lady was arguing who came to Gurudwara in shirt and pant is not very good dress code, as Guru sahib is our father never forget our culture wherever we are living. Have to first correct ourselves before going to town on Giani Jee. 

Thoughtless rage in all nothing else.

[sukrit kaur]

​Certain rules (Rehat Maryada) are made in the Panth to help jagayasus/beginners to progress in their spiritual journeys. We cannot ignore these rules. They are very very important. Can you imagine a country without laws? It would be chaos. Rehat Maryada creates fear in the minds of people, which gradually turns into love.

 

We cannot use sakhis in our history to change the Rehat Maryada. Examples:

Satguru jee did kirpa on Nabi Khan and Gani Khan. Most likely, they were halal meat eaters. Does that mean, we should start eating halal meat or start serving halal meat in langar?
 

Most likely, Maharaaj must have done kirpa on naked sadhus too. Does that mean, we should start going naked to Gurudwaras?
 

Tenth master did kirpa on a Brahmin, who had immense love for Satguru jee. Does that mean, we should start following Brahmin rites and rituals?
 

Tenth master also once ate food with jhotay hands from a premi. Does that mean, we should stop washing our hands before eating?
 

Leave the love factor for God to decide. We must keep following maryada, without questioning it. Once a person reaches Brahamgyan, the situation changes.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

 

That's what I m saying.You too gave the answer.As you mentioned how a patit,meat eating man,mona ,roda person can be a beloved soul of sachepatsah,then it's worthless to account such things into frame.why to say that one is a mona so can't give his/her views.

It's all his grace.A Kattar Sikh (by rehat etc,not spiritual grace) can lose his chance of meeting waheguru due to his false ego,while any mona or patit can have it if his spiritual vichaars are high...

It's simple!! Clear!!

 

[paapiman]

 

why to say that one is a mona so can't give his/her views.

 

 

​A mona/moni can have their views and they have full freedom to express them, but not in a Gurudwara. They should not interfere in Gurmat matters.

What will we do, if non-Sikhs start expressing their views in Gurudwaras? After all, the doors of Satguru jee are open to all.

What if, Muslim premis demand halal meat in langar? What will you do?

Bhul chuk maaf

Edited June 6, 2015 by paapiman

[sukrit kaur]

​A mona/moni can have their views and they have full freedom to express them, but not in a Gurudwara. They should not interfere in Gurmat matters.

What will we do, if non-Sikhs start expressing their views in Gurudwaras? After all, the doors of Satguru jee are open to all.

Bhul chuk maaf

I'm sorry veer ji but You are too controversial  with your mind.At same time you are saying that doors of satguru jee are open for everyone and at same time your saying that a non amritdhari sikh is not allowed to discuss GURBANI.That doesnt sound well . All matters is his /her knowledge to Gurbani,love for Guru Ji,his spiritual vichaars, (def not written on one's face or cannot be determined from physical appearance)and then such things come but in different aspect.

[paapiman]

I'm sorry veer ji but You are too controversial  with your mind.At same time you are saying that doors of satguru jee are open for everyone and at same time your saying that a non amritdhari sikh is not allowed to discuss GURBANI.That doesnt sound well . All matters is his /her knowledge to Gurbani,love for Guru Ji,his spiritual vichaars, (def not written on one's face or cannot be determined from physical appearance)and then such things come but in different aspect.

​Doors are open to all, but there are certain restrictions.

What will you do, if a lady in a bikini wants to come into the gurudwara? Answer this.

Bhul chuk maaf

Edited June 6, 2015 by paapiman

[paapiman]

and at same time your saying that a non amritdhari sikh is not allowed to discuss GURBANI.That doesnt sound well .

​Read the above post carefully. You will find your answer.

Bhul chuk maaf

Edited June 6, 2015 by paapiman

[sukrit kaur]

​Read the above post carefully. You will find your answer.

 

As taking this scenario,the woman No one knows her personally ,no one knows about her spiritual life ,no one knows whether she has appropriate knowledge about Gurbani or not,nor she is in any western dress ,nor she conducted any shamless act, seems to be a non amritdhari sikh,then why to comment "she can't give her views" ??? 

This is not real sikhi.Guys such things/thoughts are somewhere contradicting the real definition of sikhi...

Sorry!! Doesn't sound well!!

[sukrit kaur]

What will you do, if a lady in a bikini wants to come into the gurudwara? Answer this

 That's a different scene.Nothing is comparable with this situation.This statement is just trying to misinterpret the quote.

[paapiman]

As taking this scenario,the woman No one knows her personally ,no one knows about her spiritual life ,no one knows whether she has appropriate knowledge about Gurbani or not,nor she is in any western dress ,nor she conducted any shamless act, seems to be a non amritdhari sikh,then why to comment "she can't give her views" ???

​If she is amritdhari, then she can give her views.

If not, still she can, but not in a Gurudwara. She should not be interfering in Gurmat matters.

If we allow non- amritdhari Sikhs to express their opinions in a Gurudwara, then we will also have to allow Hindus, Muslims, etc to do the same. Imagine what will happen then.

Bhul chuk maaf

[sukrit kaur]

Errrr...That's just the negativity of mind...

This is the reason that new sikh generation thinks a lot when talking about spirituality.

BTW it's really not right to create such definition of Sikhi.Afterall if a sikh will not allow other sikh( who is just trying to decide his path) to investigate his views ,then really it's a big sorry from me!!

[Singh123456777]

Actually I wouldn't even allow an unclean person to do langar or degh seva regardless if it's a man or woman.  Rehat and sucham come into play.

Lage Divan Mool na jaave 
Rehat bina parshad vartave 
Sooha Pehr laye naswaar 
Gobind Singh jam kare Khwaar

 

later on the Mona's and monis will also say we want to give Amrit to people lol

[sukrit kaur]

later on the Mona's and monis will also say we want to give Amrit to people lol

Another Negativity!!!!