paapiman Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) Anyway it is for these reasons that I am not 100% convinced that all content in dasam granth can be attributed to Guru Ji. It just seems like it would do more harm than good through psychological conditioning (whether intended or not). If you feel the way you do, then you really have to work on your spiritual life. Rather than pointing finger at our holy father's sacred writings. analyze yourself.It is better to stay quite, if one is not understanding Gurbani, rather than spreading confusion on a public forum.A spiritually weak person like me, won't be able to understand the deep level concepts in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib jee.Bhul chuk maaf Edited July 13, 2015 by paapiman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Our Gurus were very clear on equality of every human including gender. That is why I have a hard time believing that he would only write about the 'wiles of women' unless the granth wa sonly meant for men to read (maybe there is a similar book for his daughters warning them of the wiles of men which was somehow lost in history). Read the above posts carefully, you will find your answer.Bhul chuk maaf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh123456777 Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) For myself, I am not convinced that the 'entire' dasam granth was authored by Guru Ji. I am certain that *some* of it was. However, since he did not declare it as 'Guru' I can never hold it on par with Sru Guru Granth Sahib Ji. (Waiting for the onslaught of accusations now). Even 3 Gurbanis, which are used in amrit ceremony, are from Sri Dasam Granth Sahib jee. If you don't consider them as guru-roop, then you should not believe in Amrit Sanchaar then.Bhul chuk maaf Edited July 19, 2015 by paapiman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted July 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Even 3 Gurbanis, which are used in amrit ceremony, are from Sri Dasam Granth Sahib jee. If you don't consider them as guru-roop, then you should not believe in Amrit Sanchaar then.Bhul chuk maafRead the line that you quoted from me.... For myself, I am not convinced that the 'entire' dasam granth was authored by Guru Ji. I am certain that *some* of it was. However, since he did not declare it as 'Guru' I can never hold it on par with Sru Guru Granth Sahib Ji. (Waiting for the onslaught of accusations now). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystal Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) Read the line that you quoted from me.... For myself, I am not convinced that the 'entire' dasam granth was authored by Guru Ji. I am certain that *some* of it was. However, since he did not declare it as 'Guru' I can never hold it on par with Sru Guru Granth Sahib Ji. (Waiting for the onslaught of accusations now).sorry I forgot you are such a renowned scholar versed in the many languages of Sri dasam granth. Out of the ten gurus how many have their writings in maharaj? The ones who don't have any writings in maharaj should we class those gurus beneath the onesones who do? (Sorry I am just a Pindu jatt so I don't explain that great.) Crystal Edited July 19, 2015 by Crystal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted July 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 sorry I forgot you are such a renowned scholar versed in the many languages of Sri dasam granth. CrystalThere are plenty of sites which have tons of evidence on both sides... There is only about 50 pages which are 100% (meaning unrefutable) attributed to Guru Ji. The rest very well could be his work, but since there are convincing arguments to the contrary, those parts could also have been added later for various reasons. We can never know for sure, so that's why I am remaining 'open' and not going either direction on that debate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Read the line that you quoted from me.... For myself, I am not convinced that the 'entire' dasam granth was authored by Guru Ji. I am certain that *some* of it was. However, since he did not declare it as 'Guru' I can never hold it on par with Sru Guru Granth Sahib Ji. (Waiting for the onslaught of accusations now).You do not hold Sri Jaap Sahib, Sr Chaupai Sahib and Sri Tva Prasaad Savaiye Sahib on par with SSGGSJ. So why would you take amrit, which is made by reciting those Gurbanis?Bhul chuk maaf There are plenty of sites which have tons of evidence on both sides... There is only about 50 pages which are 100% (meaning unrefutable) attributed to Guru Ji. The rest very well could be his work, but since there are convincing arguments to the contrary, those parts could also have been added later for various reasons. We can never know for sure, so that's why I am remaining 'open' and not going either direction on that debate. In the past, people have even doubted Bhagat Bani, which is part of SSGGSJ. If you listen to cultists, there is no doubt that they will confuse you.Bhul chuk maaf The ones who don't have any writings in maharaj should we class those gurus beneath the onesones who do? Bro, that's a good point.Dhan Guru Nanak 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted July 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Paapiman you are twisting my words and you know it...you are just trying to grasp at straws and make noise like a whiny child. My point about SGGSJ being HIGHEST and that Dasam Granth can not be EQUAL is that SGGSJ IS GURU. Dasam Granth is NOT Guru Dasam Granth. GURU = HIGHEST AUTHORITY. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) Paapiman you are twisting my words and you know it...you are just trying to grasp at straws and make noise like a whiny child. My point about SGGSJ being HIGHEST and that Dasam Granth can not be EQUAL is that SGGSJ IS GURU. Dasam Granth is NOT Guru Dasam Granth. GURU = HIGHEST AUTHORITY. Why cannot Sri Dasam Granth Sahib jee be equal to SSGGSJ?According to this thinking, tenth master should be considered lower, than the other nine masters.Anything written or said by Satguru, is guru-roop.Bhul chuk maaf Edited July 19, 2015 by paapiman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted July 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Why cannot Sri Dasam Granth Sahib jee be equal to SSGGSJ?According to this thinking, tenth master should be considered lower, than the other nine masters.Anything written or said by Satguru, is guru-roop.Bhul chuk maafNo it isn't. Guru Gobind Singh Ji himself declared SGGSJ AS THE ONLY LIVING GURU... he did not delcare Dasam Granth as Guru. In fact didn't Dasam Granth get compiled by others AFTER Guru Gobind Singh Ji was gone from this world? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystal Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 (edited) You have not answered my question regarding the gurus who don't have any bani in the guru grAnth sahib. Edited July 19, 2015 by Crystal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 No it isn't. Guru Gobind Singh Ji himself declared SGGSJ AS THE ONLY LIVING GURU... he did not delcare Dasam Granth as Guru. In fact didn't Dasam Granth get compiled by others AFTER Guru Gobind Singh Ji was gone from this world?Then, you should not believe in amrit ceremony.Bhul chuk maaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystal Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) No it isn't. Guru Gobind Singh Ji himself declared SGGSJ AS THE ONLY LIVING GURU... he did not delcare Dasam Granth as Guru. In fact didn't Dasam Granth get compiled by others AFTER Guru Gobind Singh Ji was gone from this world?certain shabads were not included in this birbir...i read someone said mitar pyaar nu etc. Perhaps maharaj didnt compose them yet. &&& not forgetting zafarnama....how could this be in the 1698 saroop. Stop believing that bs about dasam granth being compiled after his depature from this world. Edited July 20, 2015 by Crystal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted July 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 To answer your question Crystal, of course all the Gurus are equal! It's actually a silly question because they were in fact the SAME JOT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 To answer your question Crystal, of course all the Gurus are equal! It's actually a silly question because they were in fact the SAME JOT! So, gurus were the same jot, but their banis are not the same? That does not make much sense.Bhul chuk maad 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystal Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 To answer your question Crystal, of course all the Gurus are equal! It's actually a silly question because they were in fact the SAME JOT! Okay. If we go by what you said what is wrong as seeing dasam granth as equal to guru granth sahib? You have just shot yourself in the foot oh young one. Crystal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harjots8963 Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Read the line that you quoted from me.... For myself, I am not convinced that the 'entire' dasam granth was authored by Guru Ji. I am certain that *some* of it was. However, since he did not declare it as 'Guru' I can never hold it on par with Sru Guru Granth Sahib Ji. (Waiting for the onslaught of accusations now).Do not attack Sri Dasam Granth because you want to view it as an equality war and not see past things. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted July 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) Okay. If we go by what you said what is wrong as seeing dasam granth as equal to guru granth sahib? You have just shot yourself in the foot oh young one. CrystalNo I have not... because Dasam Granth is not Guru. Sri GURU Granth Sahib ji IS! Do not attack Sri Dasam Granth because you want to view it as an equality war and not see past things. That's only part of my reasoning... the evidence given on many sites that disprove it as 100% attributable to Guru Ji are also a major reason. But even if it is all written by Guru Gobind Singh Ji, he himself declared SGGSJ AS GURU... not Dasam Granth. For THAT REASON alone, SGGSJ is highest authority. Edited July 20, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 No I have not... because Dasam Granth is not Guru. Sri GURU Granth Sahib ji IS!That's only part of my reasoning... the evidence given on many sites that disprove it as 100% attributable to Guru Ji are also a major reason. But even if it is all written by Guru Gobind Singh Ji, he himself declared SGGSJ AS GURU... not Dasam Granth. For THAT REASON alone, SGGSJ is highest authority. Answer this:So, gurus were the same jot, but their banis are not the same? That does not make much sense.Bhul chuk maaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted July 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 Answer this:So, gurus were the same jot, but their banis are not the same? That does not make much sense.Bhul chuk maafIf Guru Ji had planned for Dasam Granth to be equal to SGGSJ then he would have declared both as GURU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 If Guru Ji had planned for Dasam Granth to be equal to SGGSJ then he would have declared both as GURU. Why did he use three banis from Sri Dasam Granth Sahib for making amrit? He could have had made amrit by using only Gurbani from SSGGSJ only.Bhul chuk maaf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnSikhGirl Posted July 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) Why did he use three banis from Sri Dasam Granth Sahib for making amrit? He could have had made amrit by using only Gurbani from SSGGSJ only.Bhul chuk maafThat doesnt change the fact that he did not declare Dasam Granth as GURU. Meaning he himself put SGGSJ as the HIGHEST AUTHORITY... who are we to question that? Edited July 20, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsingh Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) Crystal Paji, Harjot Paji and Paapi JiAre you aware that Bachittar Natak claims that all our Guru Sahibaan were Hindu Kings in their previous lives (from only the two clans of Bedi and Sodhi). It also claims Guru Gobind Singh Ji were descended from the Hindu Avatar King Ram Chander and the mythical Sun God dynasty (SuryaVanshi).Are you further aware that Bachittar Natak claims that these Hindu Kings did a deal on how GurGaddi would be carved up amongst them (like a business deal) in their next incarnations between 1469-1708.Do you not feel that the AKJ, Missionaries, Bhai Ranjit Singh Dhadrianwale and others are justified in insisting only those words which are in tandem with Gurmat should be considered authentic Dasam Bani.Note that all 100% of the Panth are united in respect for authentic Dasam Bani. The overwhelming majority of the Panth do not believe that the 600 pages of sexually erotic tales in Charitropakhiyan were written by Guru Sahib. Only the minority Sanatan sects of Damdami Taksal, Nirmale, Udasi's, 3HO, Buddha Dal do.And that was why Sardar Kartar Singh Jhabbar and the Akali Singh Sabha Lehar which freed our Gurdwara's from Hindu Mahant control threw out Charitropakhiyan that the Hindu Mahants were insistent upon reading daily so that the Hindu Mahants prostitutes could girate to it inside Darbar Sahib.The juxtaposition of Sri Benti Chaupai Sahib (which i respect) into Charitropakhiyan is fully documented as having being done by the British and Arya Samaj sponsored Sodhak Committee of 1897 that was finalised by Amitabh Bachchan's ancestor Khemu Bedi. Edited July 20, 2015 by mrsingh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaikaara Posted July 20, 2015 Report Share Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) That doesnt change the fact that he did not declare Dasam Granth as GURU. Meaning he himself put SGGSJ as the HIGHEST AUTHORITY... who are we to question that?None of the previous Gurus appointed the Aad Guru Granth Sahib into formation as the Guru ..that is nimarta which is humility or benevolence ..why has Guru Arjandev ji Maharaj composed bani as "Kahu Nanak.." ? Guru Sahib could have mentioned " Kahe Arjan.." The bani of the Gurus bestows Guruship to Akaal Parmesar by saying Waheguru.None of the Gurus claim any divine status asking for respect of some kind.Shahenshaho ke Shahenshah our Guru Gobindsingh ji too did not want his Bani to be worshipped ..But for us The Dasam Granth Sahib ji is our Guru's Bani ..We regard Sri Guru Aad Guru Granth Sahib ji , Sri Guru Dasam Granth Sahib ji and Sri Guru Sarabloh Granth Sahib ji as ONE POWER..THE NIRANKAAR AND THE SHAKTI OF THE NIRANKAAR..A Khalsa is not complete without these banis ...we all know this . .Just because of your nausea towards Sri Charitropakhyaan baani and feminist ideas the Sangat will NOT disregard the Dasam Bani . If you have shallow thinking it is your problem alone. Sri Guru Gobindsingh ji also said Humko jo Parmesar uchre te sab narak kundh me parhe ..He who calls me God will fall in hell..STILL...I recite the Nihang Ardas which addresses Him as Guru Kalgidhar JAGADEESH...So Should we EDIT ?????Satkirin if you claim so many years of association with the Panth then why are you saying things which are affecting us so much ? With folded hands and with all the respect i request you...Please Dont question Guru's Bani and if you have doubts all the time then you need to rethink about your decision is what i feel. Edited July 20, 2015 by jaikaara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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