Church state distorted message of Jesus and same thing happening in all the other dharams

[SAadmin]

I found this on facebook, it resonated with me quite a bit when it comes to looking at our mainstream sikhism with abhramic notions:

It's the same for the Gospels, the Church to keep hold of the message has put a spin on who Jesus was and is and what he taught and did to such an extent that the radical non-dualism and path of Sudden Enlightened have been obfuscated.

You wind up having to learn and practice Vedanta and original Buddhism to understand with clarity Christ's Path of Transfiguration to Resurrection and the Enlightenment of the whole body.

 

The fact is overall non duality message in mool mantar, gurbani and direct non duality-advai or advait underlining absolute reality message (repeated 20 times in akaal ustat alone) is almost never unheard of in mainstream sikhi circles is quite mind boggling to me. Recent phenomena, basic of sikhi parchar limits sikhi -reduced to meditation experiential state in dasam dwar does not do full justice to gurbani depth or deep layers of sikhi. I am not holding anything against them as they are doing so under "basic" of sikhi, hopefully people don't limit sikhi to that only. Anyway, my point of this thread is much more, we already know how church state couldn't get essence teaching ended up misaligning lot of its followers either inadvertently or advertently for their political power, control of masses.

But whats going on here?

Are we heading towards same mistakes christians did giving too much control to church state by having black/white, devoid of direct spiritual experience, rigid interpretations of  scriptures  interpretation masses did - ended up misinterpreted their scriptures or jesus was? I beleive most of misinterpertation was done due to lack of understanding intially but later it was hijacked by church state for power, control via fear mongering, duality

Its all starts from confining to one interpretation/one line interpretation/one dimensional thought process- holding one interpretation true over mystical experience/spiritual aspects of scriptures and that gives religious right wing nut jobs a chance to create rigid structures around so that they can control people and masses as they wish via fear mongering and they would also as bonus throw bunch of dogmatic notions among people to ensure  innocent people wrap their head around it and be stuck in it and can never come out of it and have personal spiritual experience of their own and think outside of box of their own.

Luckily, we have puratan samparda deep mystical study of gurbani taught in traditional schools, antriv katha of gurbani/gurbani gnosis by gnosis master such as sant gurbachan singh bhindranwale, bhai sahib bhai vir singh ji, pandit narain singh ji, sant amir singh ji perserved so message is not totally lost. But it does not stop with preservation, we need youths to take torch , learn vidya and spread the vidya to sikh masses to raise collective consciouness of our community so that we don't ended up falling in hands of our version of church state which will make sikhi just like another abhramic faith with rigid interpretations, one dimensional thought, dogmatic notions.

I will end my post with absolute meaning of nanak- http://www.sikhawareness.com/topic/16195-~happy-gurpurb-of-jagat-guru-sri-guru-nanak-dev-ji-~/

Thanks to sant gyani gurbachan singh bhindranwale/traditional order spiritual gnosis commentary of gurbani/meaning of nanak so we are given full essence of our satguru nanak not just limited to satogun five elemental body.

Edited October 9, 2015 by N30 S!NGH

[SAadmin]

Similar thing happened in islam, islam mullahs have totally destroyed real islam- sufi- real essential nature of all, Rumi's teaching and, this bloody tale of sufi mansur bhramgyani is stark tale of it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mansur_Al-Hallaj

Edited October 6, 2015 by N30 S!NGH

[Guest Iibfjsk]

 

I found this on facebook, it resonated with me quite a bit when it comes to looking at our mainstream sikhism with abhramic notions:

The fact is overall non duality message in gurbani and direct non duality-advai or advait underlining absolute reality message (repeated 20 times in akaal ustat alone) is almost never unheard of in mainstream sikhi circles is quite mind boggling to me. Recent phenomena, basic of sikhi parchar limits sikhi -reduced to meditation experiential state in dasam dwar does not do full justice to gurbani depth or deep layers of sikhi. I am not holding anything against them as they are doing so under "basic" of sikhi, hopefully people don't limit sikhi to that only. Anyway, my point of this thread is much more, we already know how church state couldn't get essence teaching ended up misaligning lot of its followers either inadvertently or advertently for their political power, control of masses.

But whats going on here?

Are we heading towards same mistakes christians did giving too much control to church state by having black/white, devoid of direct spiritual experience, rigid interpretations of  scriptures  interpretation masses did - ended up misinterpreted their scriptures or jesus was? I beleive most of misinterpertation was done due to lack of understanding intially but later it was hijacked by church state for power, control via fear mongering, duality

Its all starts from confining to one interpretation/one line interpretation/one dimensional thought process- holding one interpretation true over mystical experience/spiritual aspects of scriptures and that gives religious right wing nut jobs a chance to create rigid structures around so that they can control people and masses as they wish via fear mongering and they would also as bonus throw bunch of dogmatic notions among people to ensure  innocent people wrap their head around it and be stuck in it and can never come out of it and have personal spiritual experience of their own and think outside of box of their own.

Luckily, we have puratan samparda deep mystical study of gurbani taught in traditional schools, antriv katha of gurbani/gurbani gnosis by gnosis master such as sant gurbachan singh bhindranwale, bhai sahib bhai vir singh ji, pandit narain singh ji, sant amir singh ji perserved so message is not totally lost. But it does not stop with preservation, we need youths to take torch , learn vidya and spread the vidya to sikh masses to raise collective consciouness of our community so that we don't ended up falling in hands of our version of church state which will make sikhi just like another abhramic faith with rigid interpretations, one dimensional thought, dogmatic notions.

I will end my post with absolute meaning of nanak- http://www.sikhawareness.com/topic/16195-~happy-gurpurb-of-jagat-guru-sri-guru-nanak-dev-ji-~/

Thanks to sant gyani gurbachan singh bhindranwale/traditional order spiritual gnosis commentary of gurbani/meaning of nanak so we are given full essence of our satguru nanak not just limited to satogun five elemental body.

great post,,

 

But how can one llearn vidiya when he has to work fulltime 

[dalsingh101]

Similar thing happened in islam, islam mullahs have totally destroyed real islam- sufi- real essential nature of all, Rumi's teaching and, this bloody tale of sufi mansur bhramgyani is stark tale of it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mansur_Al-Hallaj

I do't think so. I think they've got it spot on myself. 

[Sat1176]

I think the problem is that very few people actually reach that avasta to experience such a state. We can say it a million times that God is the One and Only and there is no other, but it will hold little value until we personally experience this Truth. Trying to understand this concept from a theoretical perspective will only get you so far. One has to make the deep inner journey within to the ultimate source which very few people are prepared to, or successfully do.

Gurmaa in a recent lecture was saying, "Instead of talking of concepts millions of times, it is better to practice 10 times."

From her recent lectures I also got the vibe that the knowledge is out there but it is not shared in the mainstream. Sadhus generally see gristi folk as being too deeply embroiled in the life full of desires, attachment and vices. They don't feel we normal folk will be able to break free so we are given very low level simple explanations which have become the norm. Deep down they know it will take us numerous lifetimes to break out of the maya of the world and eventually by his Grace we may actually start walking on the path with dedication. They wait for someone with real spiritual thirst to come to their sanctuary and be prepared to work really hard on the spiritual practices leaving all other desires and attachments behind.

There was a reason why the specific words like Sat-sangat and Saadh-sangat were used in Gurbani. Sadly even these terms have been diluted to mean general sangat.

Satsangat :

Satsangat kaisee jaanee-ai.
How is the True Sangat to be known?

jithai Ayko Naam vakhaanee-ai.
Where the One Name of the Lord is Chanted.

ayko naam hukam hai naanak satgur dee-aa bujhaa-ay jee-o.
The One Name is the Lord's Command; O Nanak, the True Guru has given me this understanding.

 

Saadh Sangat:

Saadhsangat parsaad santan kai so-i-o man jaagi-o.
By the Grace of the Saints, my sleeping mind has been awakened.

mil saadhsangat bhaj kayval naam.
Joining the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, vibrate and meditate on the Naam, the Name of the Lord.

 

Regrettably most Saadhu,Sants are more interested in getting everyone involved in worldly Seva rather than spirtual seva of the True Guru. Very few will say:

ahinis naam santokhee-aa sayvaa sach saa-ee.

Day and night, remain content with the Naam, the Name of the Lord; that is the True Service.

 

Satgur kee sayvaa ootam hai bhaa-ee raam naam chit laa-ay.

Service to the True Guru is sublime, O Siblings of Destiny; through it, one`s consciousness is attached to the Lord`s Name.

 

tayray jan Dhi-aavahi ik man ik chit, tay saadhoo sukh paavahi jap har har naam niDhaan.

Your humble servants focus their consciousness and meditate on You with one-pointed mind; those Holy beings find peace, chanting the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, the Treasure of Bliss.

ustat karahi parabh tayree-aa mil saadhoo saadh janaa gur satguroo bhagvaan.  

They sing Your Praises, God, meeting with the Holy, the Holy people, and the Guru, the True Guru, O Lord God.

 

I am curious to know if the Sants out there have reached the state of realisation and now dedicate the rest of their lives in services to man kind through buildings or education establishments.

 

naam kee mahimaa sant rid vasai.

The Glory of the Naam abides in the hearts of His Saints.

sant partaap durat sabh nasai.

By the Saints' kind intervention, all guilt is dispelled.

sant kaa sang vadbhaagee paa-ee-ai.

The Society of the Saints is obtained by great good fortune.

sant kee sayvaa naam Dhi-aa-ee-ai.

Service of the Saints is to mediate on the Naam.

Naam tul Kach avar na ho-ay.

There is nothing equal to the Naam.

 

Edited October 6, 2015 by Sat1176

[SAadmin]

I strongly believe essence teaching should be widely available for direct experience for all- regardless of collective consciousness of community is eligible/ready or not. That way, at least option is there- if it resonates with people great if it does not its great too. We need to realize mind is very powerful thing whatever is given to mind that becomes its reality so by giving relatives realities in package our parcharikhs are not doing any favour they actually make it people reality..What should be done- absolute reality should be given first then relative realities so it caters all. Our parcharikhs or new age sants should not undermine sangat thirst to known the truth, as every human being has intrinsic pull towards it source-truth deep down side, besides our whole scriptures talk about nothing but truth so our new gyanis downplaying these teachings is not acceptable.

[dalsingh101]

When people do the whole 'sangat' thing these days, I think it is more a social phenomena than a spiritual one. 

 

At best we need nudges and prods in the right direction from preachers, sants, gianis, mahapurakhs and whatnot. Instead people use other teachers as some sort of pivot to orbit around in a club. We need direction to achieve a cognitive shift in the right direction but instead people start clinging to and idolising the messenger, which doesn't do the messenger any good either because it risks inflating their ego. People need to directly experience things themselves as N30 says but seem to start getting their spiritual experiences via proxies 

 

But I feel sorry for our parcharaks because they are now expected to deal with 21st century problems that usually relate to hitherto unseen social and political changes and negotiate that terrain.  

[mahanpaapi]

That is inevitable phenomena as Bhakti dissipates, Kaal Purakh gradually takes over the reigns of everything including religious institutions and peoples, that is divine play. Therefore. Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj made full proof arrangements almost until the end of Kalyug to send Darghahi Mahapurakhs as listed in Sau Sakhi, so that those engaged in naam simaran and seva can be salvaged by them.

Once we understand that divine context, we can make a "choice" either to bang our heads bleeding at invincible Kaal Purakh's maneuverings, get angry, frustrated or blame individuals or organizations, or simply engages in serious naam simaran and seva and get around Kaal Purakh, and our choice will be bear fruits.

[SAadmin]

Must listen to this audio clip by sant singh maskeen, he also talks about gurbani tuks by kabir ji talking about certain stage:

The philosophy of the Sufis and the oppression against the truth

https://www.podbean.com/media/share/pb-a6zhu-58bcc1#.VhbQy8GYLjA.facebook

Edited October 9, 2015 by N30 S!NGH