Man catches wife cheating

[CdnSikhGirl]

That is the same as saying some men take the submissive role willingly. 

What I am saying is that the dynamic which puts one person over the other is not good for a healthy marriage.  Because one person is always in a power over the other. In society we say sex between those where one is in a power position over the other is wrong.  Therefore that dynamic *should not* ideally be used in a marriage.  And while I know yes many people willingly take that role (male and female both) what really in majority of cases it ends up being to keep the peace. One person gives in, to keep the peace and gives up their own will. 

Just like I could not personally ever be in a submissive subordinate position (in marriage) I also could not ever live with myself if my spouse were to give in and be submissive just to make me happy (because inside I know that their own needs are not being met).  This is why I do not put myself in a submissive role with my husband. We work as equals.  But I also would not step on his desires either.  We very very rarely disagree on anything and if we do its usually what to order at a restaurant.  In the end we end up getting both usually.  And as I said if either one of us wants the other to do something we ask... and use the words please. And always thank each other.  And if we cant or really do not want to for some reason (personal or otherwise) the we accepts that and don't hold it against each other.

You didn't however even comment on Bhagat Singh Ji's post saying that ALL men NEED someone to obey them.  So why attack me, saying that in all likelyhood most of those putting themselves willingly in a subordinate role is to keep the peace.  I did acknowledge there are a few who actually like to be dominated. Otherwise there would be no BDSM community. And it goes for both males and females.  But this is definitely NOT the norm.  But you did not even mention where he suggested that ALL men NEED women to be obedient to them.  Since you just verified that no not all men require this, and not all women hate being dominated.  But to suggest that ALL women need to be obedient to men is ludicrous. But you didn't even remark on his post at all. why??

I stand by my observation. Nobody really *likes* being ordered around. 

I also stand by my other observation: If anyone says they have a *need* to have someone obey them, it's ego talking. NOODY *needs* this.  Having someone obey you / feeling power over another human is merely to boost one's ego. And my suggestion to satisfy this need is to get a dog.  A dog is obedient. You can order a dog around all you want. 

 

[dalsingh101]

Quote

You didn't however even comment on Bhagat Singh Ji's post saying that ALL men NEED someone to obey them.  So why attack me, saying that in all likelyhood most of those putting themselves willingly in a subordinate role is to keep the peace. 

Well maybe it's as simple as he being the type that wants to be the dominant one in a relationship and is projecting his own disposition on other men? Same way you are projecting your personal predilection on all women, without seeing it as an individual thing, as opposed to a  universal one? 

 

53 minutes ago, Satkirin_Kaur said:

I stand by my observation. Nobody really *likes* being ordered around. 

I think you know that is bull5hit. Some people like it so much, they'll pay for it or seek out dominant partners, again and again. 

 

Do you know how many geezers I've met who get with women who constantly demean and dominate them, and don't leave despite all of their friends telling them to tell the girl to f**k off. 

[GurpreetKaur]

23 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

without seeing it as an individual thing, as opposed to a  universal one? 

 

Well said.

[CdnSikhGirl]

4 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

Well maybe it's as simple as he being the type that wants to be the dominant one in a relationship and is projecting his own disposition on other men? Same way you are projecting your personal predilection on all women, without seeing it as an individual thing, as opposed to a  universal one? 

Exactly.. if you feel what I said was wrong, then why not also call him out on it since according to you he did the same thing?? 

Only... I didn't say that ALL women hate being dominated by men.  I said that a good majority do and that (let me make it more clear) any *sane* person does not like being ordered around. Of course my opinion that they are insane for playing with dominance and submission is my own opinion. But they can't possibly be normal.  Of course there are people at both outer limits. There are men who like to be dominated and women who like to be dominated (both creepy) and men who like to dominate and women who like to dominate (also both creepy ---- and driven by Ego and narcissism). But of course this my (and MANY other's) opinion! 

What I consider *normal* and healthy in a relationship is when both partners do what they can for each other. And neither imposes their will over the other.  Both try to do what the other asks, while also acknowledging the other's needs as well.  It seems to work perfectly fine for the vast majority of marriages.  

Hate to burst Bhagat SIngh Ji's bubble... men weren't born with some right of authority over women. And don't even bring physical strength into it.  DO you really think Waheguru intended physical strength to be used to force others into subjugation?? Perhaps that strength was supposed to be used for constructive things like obtaining food when we still had to hunt. 

I agree with Neo it has to be somewhere in the middle. I don't think women should be dominant either!! <<<------ There it's in black and white!  I don't think women OR men should dominate over each other!!! In a normal, healthy relationship nobody is put into subordinate position!  Dominance and submission dynamic is just creepy. Really it is!!! And proclaiming a NEED to dominate over someone and have them obey you, is even creepier!!!  

According to a medical research paper on the subject there is a direct link between desire for dominance and narcissism, being that the desire *aka need* to dominate is driven by --quoted-- "egotistic need for power over and admiration from others" and described it as being innately destructive in personal relationships, often causing --quoted-- "anxiety and depression" among other issues in the person who is in the submissive role, even if they are the one who sought out that role!!!  So giving up your will, even willingly causes mental issues associated with loss of your own individuality! 

I don't want to be dominant OR submissive!  And I don't want my husband to be either dominant OR submissive. We work together as a team!!

[dalsingh101]

Instead of of all this Satkiran, why don't you just let people chose whichever type of relationship they fit in? 

 

Your 'one model should fit all' idea of relationships is ridiculous and doesn't even remotely try to factor in natural differences in psychology/personalities. 

[Ragmaala]

12 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said:

Instead of of all this Satkiran, why don't you just let people chose whichever type of relationship they fit in? Your 'one model should fit all' idea of relationships is ridiculous and doesn't even remotely try to factor in natural differences in psychology/personalities. 

I think this is it.  This should end all discussions. Let people/couple/men/women decide for themselves which dynamics they like submissive/dominant/equal or whatever dynamic there is. Everyone's personality is  unique & different.

[CdnSikhGirl]

3 minutes ago, Ragmaala said:

I think this is it.  This should end all discussions. Let people/couple/men/women decide for themselves which dynamics they like submissive/dominant/equal or whatever dynamic there is. Everyone's personality is  unique & different.

I'm perfectly fine with this!  As long as someone is not telling me that as a woman my place is subordinate to men.  And I would *hope* that any women uncomfortable with being pushed into subjugation would speak up for themselves.  I only have problem with those like Bhagat Singh saying that EVERY man NEEDS to dominate and have control over someone who obeys them. 

[Ragmaala]

16 hours ago, BhagatSingh said:

Yes.

It's impossible for me to reply to the rest of your post because it's full of presumptions and really long. So let's start here, because we both agree that relationships should be based on mutual love and respect.

However the way in which men and women receive love and respect from their partner is quite different between the sexes.

Below is a successful and admirable egalitarian woman speaking about this topic. This is a workshop she did for women, to help them with their relationships.

Shaunti Feldhahn received her graduate degree from Harvard University and was an analyst on Wall Street before unexpectedly becoming a social researcher, best-selling author and popular speaker.  Today, she applies her analytical skills to investigating eye-opening, life-changing truths about relationships, both at home and in the workplace.

 

 

 

Good video !

A man needs Respect!

A Woman needs Love!

Simple!

& the same exact things have been taught to us by our elders which are now getting extinct.

ps And Satkirin writing long essays doesnt prove your point, learn to be short & succint in 3-4 sentences. But thats okay, its not your fault, women are just verbal processors as the lady in above video said. lol

 

[CdnSikhGirl]

Women need both respect and love.  

Men need both respect and love.  

Any man who claims to LOVE a woman will never expect blind obedience, because that is not what love is.  

An eighteenth century English author once said, “…as blind obedience is ever sought for by power, tyrants and sensualists are in the right when they endeavour to keep women in the dark, because the former only want slaves, and the latter a play-thing.”

btw Raagmala, it's going extinct for a reason. Possibly because women didn't like that arrangement?? It's great for the guy though! LOL

[GurpreetKaur]

5 hours ago, Ragmaala said:

I think this is it.  This should end all discussions. Let people/couple/men/women decide for themselves which dynamics they like submissive/dominant/equal or whatever dynamic there is. Everyone's personality is  unique & different.

If this men/women discussion ends, I will vote for dalsingh ji if he choose to run for a president and no sarcasm here. I am serious.:)

[Ragmaala]

vote for dalsingh as next US PRESIDENT

[Ragmaala]

I give up writing on man-woman issue. I retire.

[GurpreetKaur]

Harsh reality lol 

[BhagatSingh]

5 hours ago, Satkirin_Kaur said:

I'm perfectly fine with this!  As long as someone is not telling me that as a woman my place is subordinate to men.  And I would *hope* that any women uncomfortable with being pushed into subjugation would speak up for themselves.  I only have problem with those like Bhagat Singh saying that EVERY man NEEDS to dominate and have control over someone who obeys them. 

That's NOT what I said. Stop putting YOUR words/essays into my mouth. I clarified my position with that video of Shaunti talking about the differences in men and women in relationships.

If you understand her, great! Let's agree to disagree.
If not, then let's agree to disagree with whatever you thought I was saying.

Cheers. Have a great day.

PS If you don't understand somebody, the polite thing to do is to ask them to clarify themselves, and give the benefit of the doubt.

[BhagatSingh]

2 hours ago, Ragmaala said:

I give up writing on man-woman issue. I retire.

Lol. Hope is not lost. It's much easier to discuss this with women you know in real life.

[CdnSikhGirl]

On 1/11/2016 at 6:37 PM, BhagatSingh said:

 

What her husband absolutely needs to his core from his wife, is for his wife to show him respect and obedience.

 

You claim you didn't write the above?? I underlined it and bolded it for your reference. 

Again, if someone claims to *need* obedience from others they are only looking to feed their egotistical need for power over others. 

Respect I agree with fully. But it should go both ways.  Husband and wife respect each other.  Respect should not only be by the wife for her husband. A wife requires just as much respect as he does. Otherwise she may as well be sub-human. 

As for obedience, it would be better to say that both should consider each others wishes, and both should consider each others limits and dislikes as well. 

Otherwise its a power imbalance which demeans the one put in the subordinate role. 

 

 

[BhagatSingh]

Did you watch the video I posted? She explains it better than I do.

[paapiman]

On 1/12/2016 at 11:42 PM, BhagatSingh said:

I have only read some of them.

Paaji, do you want to start a series on Sri Charitropakhian Sahib jee?

You might be one of the best guys on this forum, who could explain the Charitars well. Other people can jump in and provide useful insights too.

What do you say bro?

Bhul chuk maaf

[BhagatSingh]

11 hours ago, paapiman said:

Paaji, do you want to start a series on Sri Charitropakhian Sahib jee?

You might be one of the best guys on this forum, who could explain the Charitars well. Other people can jump in and provide useful insights too.

What do you say bro?

Bhul chuk maaf

I am up for creating more understanding and awareness of Charitropakhyan but I am not an expert on it.

[CdnSikhGirl]

On 1/13/2016 at 0:17 AM, BhagatSingh said:

Did you watch the video I posted? She explains it better than I do.

Here is a psychology counter argument to the whole idea that women need love and men need respect. (ignoring that men need love too and women need respect too). 

The original book that came to this conclusion conducted one experiment where the participants were asked if they were FORCED to choose between either being alone in the world and unloved but respected and felt adequate, or feeling loved but not respected, 75% of men said theyd rather be unlived but respected, and at that time 75% of women said they'd rather be loved than respected. However, this was based on women who were mostly uneducated and dependent on a spouse to survive.  

A psychologist challenged this notion that women don't need respect. The survey was done again, approaching women who were educated and able to provide for themselves. The results speak for themselves. In this group of women, over 75% came out with the same answer as the men. That they would rather be respected and feel adequate and be alone, than be loved and feel disrespected.  This indicates the original results by the women, were driven by their being forced into a role where they were entirely dependent on a man to survive. So naturally, the desire to not lose that stability was stronger.  It didnt mean that the women didn't need or require respect just as much as the men did.  It meant that the men didn't have that added burden of being dependent on someone for their financial stability.  Remove that dependence, and women choose the exact same result. Respect over Love.  

So there you have it Bhagat Singh Ji.  BOTH women and men require respect from the other. (I don't think obedience falls into this. It would be impossible for two people to be obedient to each other when there is differences) and its unfair to expect one to always be obedient to another as one will always have the advantage in decisions and having their desires and needs met.  It would be better if BOTH try their best to conform to the other's wishes and needs. That means when possible BOTH should obey each other if they can. Yes that includes the husband obeying his wife's wishes too sorry to say! Or else she will feel disrespected same as he would!!! And equally, BOTH should be observant of the other's limits and if they really do not want to do something, dont force them to or goad them into it etc.  And if you are a good person you won't force someone to do something just because you say..."I want a 'sammich".  You cant expect to order your spouse around at all.  

Here is the newer study showing women need the exact same thing as men - respect! And educated women who can provide for themselves (who are not dependent on men for financial support etc) also choose respect over love over 75% of the time.... numbers completely consistent with men's answers!!!  This proves the original survey was flawed!!!! Based on the women being forced into a role that made them prioritize their survival. Remove that role, and the majority choose respect over love! 

Now I know why I value respect more than anything!!... I have never been dependent on a man where I would feel threatened of being tossed out with no way to support myself if he no longer 'loved' me.  Therefore to me, I value respect above all. I would feel devastated if my husband ever disrespected me, didn't listen to me etc.  

Husbands need to respect (and obey) their wives on equal level!  

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-joint-adventures-well-educated-couples/201210/women-need-love-and-men-need-respect

 

[paapiman]

17 hours ago, BhagatSingh said:

I am up for creating more understanding and awareness of Charitropakhyan but I am not an expert on it.

Gurparsaad, will begin a new topic on the Charitars. Please make a detailed contribution.

Thanks in advance.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[BhagatSingh]

7 hours ago, Satkirin_Kaur said:

Here is a psychology counter argument to the whole idea that women need love and men need respect. (ignoring that men need love too and women need respect too). 

Nobody said men don't need love. When men feel respected, they feel loved. And when women feel loved, they feel respected.

Both need both love and respect.

However, there is a fundamental difference in what men and women respond to.

For example, after a fight, men will often break away and go into solitude, whereas, women will often "tend and befriend" and talk about it.

One is a gesture of respect, ie respecting the other person's thoughts and space. The other has no regard for that, it is about love and connection.

 

Btw when it comes to this, you are no different from other women. Any time you have a fight with any of the members here, or when you feel you are welcomed on this forum, or something like that, you make long posts about it where you try to "tend and befriend". You seek to establish the connection again that was broken with the incident earlier. And when you do, you still come back to the forum after announcing multiple times, that you will leave. That is not about respect at all.

Whereas with men, we stay even if we feel unwelcome and we just up and leave if it's too much. You will never hear about it.

 

Now both men and women, will do both of the above. Men will do more of the latter, and women will do more of the former.

 

Coming back to respect and love.

There is are many problems with the news you cited.

Men and women both need love and respect, but the way in which they receive those is different. So the women saying they want respect does not counter what Mrs Feldhahn or Dr Eggerich are saying. Because what is different about them is in the way they receive it in relationships. Both researchers have said this multiple times.

Ask yourself, why do women doll themselves up? Why do they emphasize their youth and baby-like features? Why do they want to enhance their appearance with a billion creams that are on the market? Is this so that they feel respect? Hardly. They are mostly looking to attract love.

Why do men feel more pressured to earn? Why are they more eager to take dangerous, unfulfilling jobs that pay well? Earning a living is primarily about gaining respect for men. In a family, men feel that they will be loved if they are earning, because they will gain respect.

 

7 hours ago, Satkirin_Kaur said:

BOTH should be observant of the other's limits and if they really do not want to do something, dont force them to or goad them into it etc.

That said, I agree to this. But I think you are missing the fundamental differences in men and women, and how they play out.

I haven't seen it on the forum but it maybe that your nature might be different than most other women. Even then, it would still be correct to say that men need respect and women need love.

[Ragmaala]

8 minutes ago, BhagatSingh said:

Btw when it comes to this, you are no different from other women. Any time you have a fight with any of the members here, or when you feel you are welcomed on this forum, or something like that, you make long posts about it where you try to "tend and befriend". You seek to establish the connection again that was broken with the incident earlier. And when you do, you still come back to the forum after announcing multiple times, that you will leave. That is not about respect at all.

Whereas with men, we stay even if we feel unwelcome and we just up and leave if it's too much. You will never hear about it.

Brother you are truly talented in many respects painting & writing, & especially Observing Human Behavior ;)

Cheers!

[Ragmaala]

 

Looks like your Ustad Narsingh Narayan Ji is doing great kripa on you. Btw I am excited for your 1000 eye painting of NArsingh Ji, it truly is going to be something special.

[BhagatSingh]

12 minutes ago, Ragmaala said:

Brother you are truly talented in many respects painting & writing, & especially Observing Human Behavior ;)

Cheers!

I have special X-ray vision that allows me to read forum posts hehe ;)

Seriously, thanks.
Hoi hai sohi jo Ram rache rakha.

9 minutes ago, Ragmaala said:

Looks like your Ustad Narsingh Narayan Ji is doing great kripa on you. Btw I am excited for your 1000 eye painting of NArsingh Ji, it truly is going to be something special.

Thanks again. I hope so.
I have a few paintings that I want to complete before that one, since they have been in the works for a long time. I think you will enjoy these too. Keep in touch.