Women and Turban = No.

[Kaalka]

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[CdnSikhGirl]

Did you know turbans of differing styles are worn by women all over the world?? African continent many women do, Jewish women also wear a tichel which is very similar in structure (and hence same look in how it frames the face).  Historically, and outside India, women DID tie turbans of all sorts! And nobody ever thought it made them look like men. So Sikhi is not the only religion / group to tie turbans, and Sikhi definitely does not have a monopoly on it.  

While I agree certain turban styles might not look good on women, like patiala shahi... the round turban / gol dastar and dumalla (not full dumalla but the smaller one) look perfectly fine on women, and no they don't make women look like men. 

Also as you know women are barred currently from performing kirtan at darbar sahib. It has already been stated that when a female jatha will finally be approved to do so, it will be a requirement for them to tie turbans to perform kirtan there. But let me guess, you are probably against women performing kirtan too...

Sorry these below are single images showing both males and females, but you can see how many are women...

[kdsingh80]

My grandmother was also against women wearing turban , the sewapanthi samprada which had influence in their area was dead against that. She told me once a woman came under influence of AKJ's and wore turban when she visited the sant s they were shocked , they scolded her and told her its a sin 

[Guest]

Good photos and a good example of how if turbans in one culture are not seen as masculinizing women, then how could they do the same in another culture when the basic form is the same? Only the reason is different. Also, Sikhi is a religion and not a culture. It crosses cultures. Are you going to say that women of China (going by the above examples) if they adopt Sikhi you will all of a sudden tell them they can no longer tie turbans because now, as a Sikh it's somehow only for men? Or Tibetan, or Laos just using the above examples Harkiran Kaur Bhenji posted.

Though it's not mandatory for them, Kaurs certainly can tie a distar. If you don't personally like how they look, who cares. Kaurs don't exist just for you to look at. Save your leering for your own wife and never mind what the rest of Singhnis are doing.  There are plenty of Kaurs who don't tie a turban (and plenty of Singhs as well for that matter) Marry one of them and stop bullying the Kaurs who choose to be in Guru roop. by the way did you know prior to early 1900 harmandir sahib required all who wanted to take amrit, to be present with a turban or keski? That included women.

There is also a sakhi that describes how Guru Gobind Singh Ji himself told Mai Bhago to cover her kesh with a turban. Do you think he was trying to make her into a man? Maybe you should take it up with him! If it was perfectly ok for Mai Bhago then it's ok for Kaurs today especially those who look to Mai Bhago as an example. Stop trying to alienate them.

 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, kdsingh80 said:

My grandmother was also against women wearing turban , the sewapanthi samprada which had influence in their area was dead against that. She told me once a woman came under influence of AKJ's and wore turban when she visited the sant s they were shocked , they scolded her and told her its a sin

No doubt. Some sampardas (still) view women as being inferior due to periods and other reasons think it blasphmous if a woman tried to be in image of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Having periods (dirty) and being physically weaker is because they are being punished for past karma. That is why they are also dead set against women in the punj pyaras. It has nothing to do with no woman giving her head that day as suggested by some. It has to do with women being spiritually inferior to men. Thats the only reason it is seen as a sin for them to tie a turban. (Otherwise its just a piece of fabric worn to cover and protect the keshas.) Because its seen as a woman trying to usurp a higher spiritual position than she is, and not accepting her punishment. Women need to wait until they do enough bhagti and be reborn in a male joon to do religious things. Otherwise, they should focus on serving their husband and raising children only. They should remain quiet, and not try to pretend to be men (pretending to be higher spiritually than they are) and just accept they are here under punishment in this joon.

The above is NOT my thinking. This is how many Singhs unfortunately view women. And it's sad. Our Gurus did not teach this. This is pure Brahaministical thinking only. And its well known Brahministical thinking crept into Sikhi while Wikhs were forced into hiding in the woods and holy places occupied. We lost so much.

[paapiman]

There is historical evidence present to prove that Sikh women wore turbans in the past.

Quote

An account of a Akaaleen/Nihangnee from 1842 by a Christian Missionary Rev. J. Caldwell, published in the Foreign Missionary Chronicle.

” We were visited this forenoon by a most singular character, an Akalin, or female faqir of a peculiar sect. Like the class of mendicants to whom she belongs, she was armed to the teeth. Over her shoulder was slung a sword, while her belt was graced with a large horse pistol, a dagger, and sundry other weapons of destruction.

Another sword hung by her side. Her turban was ornamented with a panji and five or six chakkars. The panji is an instrument made something in a form of a tiger’s claws, with five curved blades exceedingly sharp. The chakkar is a steel discus, of six or eight diameters, very sharp also, and no doubt a destructive weapon when hurled with sufficient force.

Unquote [1]

[1] - http://dailysikhupdates.com/rare-british-account-of-a-female-nihang-warrior/

 

Mata Shamsher Kaur jee was the adopted daughter of Sardar Jassa Singh jee Ramgariha.

Quote

She dressed like a male soldier and was known as Shamsher. Many did not know that Shamsher was a female. 

.........

She took both the ladies to her house. When she changed her clothes, the ladies were surprised to find that their savior was a lady.

Unquote [2]

[2] - https://sikhunity.wordpress.com/2014/01/02/bibi-shamsher-kaur-jee/

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

It is not mandatory for Sikh women to wear a Turban. If they wish to wear it, they can do so. There is no rule against it.

They must keep their heads covered all the time (except when not possible - bathing, etc). This rule applies to men too

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

1 hour ago, kdsingh80 said:

My grandmother was also against women wearing turban , the sewapanthi samprada which had influence in their area was dead against that. She told me once a woman came under influence of AKJ's and wore turban when she visited the sant s they were shocked , they scolded her and told her its a sin 

Bro, what was the reason behind it?

This is so weird, as Sikh women wore Turbans before AKJ was born.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[Guest]

Fo once I am in agreement with Paapiman veerji and that doesn't happen often!  And since heads must be covered at all times, chunni is not possible for anything involving physical acticity. They pretty much have to stand still to prevent it from sliding off the head. If they want to do any sport etc. its impossible with a chunni. So they have to remove it and have a bare head, kaalka do you think this is better than having a turban where their head is covered at all times, and they can do things which require physical movement without it falling off their head or the ends sliding off shoulders etc? Chunni wearing women, inevitibly end up with their heads bare most of the time. If a woman takes Amrit, she is required to have her head covered at all times. If she chooses to wear a chunni, then what does she do for sports or anything really which requires any sort of movement? She will end up having it uncovered much of the time despite how much she tries to keep it covered. I prefer when Kaurs tie a dastar for this reason. They don't end up with bare heads by accident (or from being fed up with the chunni and taking it off).

 

[Rock]

Being Human, we have so many inherent problems. 

We try to judge the other person in terms of his/her financial status & his spiritual status based on his outer appearances alone. Both in the materialistic & religious world.

We are also insecure of each other, and try to come up with examples to make us feel better from the rest.

Human mind is foolish. It forms opinions based on a persons outer appearance. No one knows whats really going on inside that person.

We try to fool ourselves, as well as others.

I think the above pretty much sums up all issues, debates & ego trips that we see daily.

 

[amardeep]

The way I see it is that women are free to wear a dastaar if they so wish but it is not mandatory upon them. For Khalsa men it is mandatory.

[Guest]

20 hours ago, Kaalka said:

Bloody heck, you are absolutely everywhere. I've seen ur posts on SS, SPN, and now you're the first! Hahahaa! 10/10 for the speediness!

It is completely possible to get a high top-knot without the support of a nihang-style bunga. Many Jaat women also wore their hair in this fashion:

(P.S. I do not wish to converse with your further on this issue - and others, such as women in Panj, as I have stated above. I am very familar with your side of the debate, and frankly, it holds no weight.)

Did the Gurus never teach you to show respect to women?  Hahaha 10/10 for for impoliteness!! The lass in the above  depiction looks too dirty and unkempt for a Singhni.  What happened to daily eshnaan singhs  and singhnees were suppose to have to look clean and    not ever so  disheveled?  I wonder if she is wearing a kacherra or a longotti bahamanni style?! So stupid to debate a topic when the Gurus have so categorically and absolutely removed gender bias for his Khalsa!  Shame on you to question the Will of the Guru!  

Honestly  and quite frankly, I don't have any desire, intention or even a reason to discuss this with you any further!  I am signing off now...........

Anoop Singh Khalsa

[Guest]

52 minutes ago, amardeep said:

The way I see it is that women are free to wear a dastaar if they so wish but it is not mandatory upon them. For Khalsa men it is mandatory.

Whether Khalsa women wear them or not is not dependant on 'the way you see it.'  The dastar is mandatory for both.  It is not an article of clothing which is in vogue one day and not in vogue the next!!!  It is the UNIFORM OF THE KHALSA.  Khalsa consists of both men and women!!  Do modern day female soldiers wear skirts and pretty little  blouses with floral motifs when they join the army?  NO!!!!!!!!  They wear exactly the same uniform as men soldiers.  Female soldiers wear berets same as men soldiers, no questions asked!! They don't wear colorful scarves to signify they are women!!  OBSERVE AND LEARN.  The creator of the Khalsa commanded that men and women shall wear the same uniform, simple.  Every single article of uniform is mandatory whether one is a modern day soldier or not.  No one can pick and choose, either you are in or you are out and there is no two ways about it!  

Women stopped obeying the Guru's command to wear a dastar long time ago.  This is why we see not that many men wearing the turbans either these days!

The reason we are seeing more and more women wearing dastars  nowadays is two fold.  Firstly, the so called 'singhs'  are following their mothers' footsteps.  They are doing exactly what their mothers failed to teach them when young.  The young Khalsa  women are taking notice and becoming more aware of what's happened.  Secondly,  the so called 'singhs' have become too lax to obey the orders of the Guru!! The young women are taking their responsibility of keeping Khalsa strong very seriously.  More seriously than men ever did!! I congratulate them.

 

 

 

 

[amardeep]

30 minutes ago, Guest said:

Whether Khalsa women wear them or not is not dependant on 'the way you see it.'  The dastar is mandatory for both.  It is not an article of clothing which is in vogue one day and not in vogue the next!!!  It is the UNIFORM OF THE KHALSA.  Khalsa consists of both men and women!!  Do modern day female soldiers wear skirts and pretty little  blouses with floral motifs when they join the army?  NO!!!!!!!!  They wear exactly the same uniform as men soldiers.  Female soldiers wear berets same as men soldiers, no questions asked!! They don't wear colorful scarves to signify they are women!!  OBSERVE AND LEARN.  The creator of the Khalsa commanded that men and women shall wear the same uniform, simple.  Every single article of uniform is mandatory whether one is a modern day soldier or not.  No one can pick and choose, either you are in or you are out and there is no two ways about it!  

Women stopped obeying the Guru's command to wear a dastar long time ago.  This is why we see not that many men wearing the turbans either these days!

The reason we are seeing more and more women wearing dastars  nowadays is two fold.  Firstly, the so called 'singhs'  are following their mothers' footsteps.  They are doing exactly what their mothers failed to teach them when young.  The young Khalsa  women are taking notice and becoming more aware of what's happened.  Secondly,  the so called 'singhs' have become too lax to obey the orders of the Guru!! The young women are taking their responsibility of keeping Khalsa strong very seriously.  More seriously than men ever did!! I congratulate them.

 

 

 

 

I dont think there is anything historical to suggest that women were oblighed to wear dastaars. The few references that have been posted deal with nihang women,- not ordinary Sikhs. Like I said, they can if they want but i dont think its mandatory.

Males and females in Sikhi are not supposed to be 100 % alike. Soon we will start seeing women taking the name 'Singh' and abolish Kaur because they will argue that there is 110% equality in Sikhi so why would the Guru give the females another name?

[kdsingh80]

6 hours ago, paapiman said:

Bro, what was the reason behind it?

This is so weird, as Sikh women wore Turbans before AKJ was born.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

They believed that Turban was mainly for men as apart from few warrior singhnee's hardly any other sikh women wore it,they also believed that Guru's made dastaar compulsary for men not women so there must be reason.This is all I was told and it was word of mouth so it could be wrong but one thing was clear that some sampradaye's did not like women dressing like men

[CdnSikhGirl]

 

41 minutes ago, kdsingh80 said:

They believed that Turban was mainly for men as apart from few warrior singhnee's hardly any other sikh women wore it,they also believed that Guru's made dastaar compulsary for men not women so there must be reason.This is all I was told and it was word of mouth so it could be wrong but one thing was clear that some sampradaye's did not like women dressing like men

I would say the post by Guest below is quite accurate... If they view us as inferior to them spiritually and here as a punishment, no wonder they would be pissed off if a lowly woman dressed like a man as they would see it as us not accepting our lot in life.  SImilar to those guys who fake being in the military and wearing medals they didn't earn... I'm not surprised that there are Singhs who think like this after some of the comments I have read on here before. 

8 hours ago, Guest said:

No doubt. Some sampardas (still) view women as being inferior due to periods and other reasons think it blasphmous if a woman tried to be in image of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Having periods (dirty) and being physically weaker is because they are being punished for past karma. That is why they are also dead set against women in the punj pyaras. It has nothing to do with no woman giving her head that day as suggested by some. It has to do with women being spiritually inferior to men. Thats the only reason it is seen as a sin for them to tie a turban. (Otherwise its just a piece of fabric worn to cover and protect the keshas.) Because its seen as a woman trying to usurp a higher spiritual position than she is, and not accepting her punishment. Women need to wait until they do enough bhagti and be reborn in a male joon to do religious things. Otherwise, they should focus on serving their husband and raising children only. They should remain quiet, and not try to pretend to be men (pretending to be higher spiritually than they are) and just accept they are here under punishment in this joon.

 

[amardeep]

Satkirin: it has nothing to do with women being inferior.. Did the Guru make women inferior by giving them the name kaur instead of Singh? no

[kdsingh80]

1 minute ago, CdnSikhGirl said:

 

I would say the post by Guest below is quite accurate... If they view us as inferior to them spiritually and here as a punishment, no wonder they would be pissed off if a lowly woman dressed like a man as they would see it as us not accepting our lot in life. 

Linking everything to women as lowly or second class is not true. My grandmother and her sisters even though never went to school could easily read and write Gurmukhi. Mu aunts( dad's sisters) studied upto masters level in early seventies. there was no case of female foeticide, domestic voilence .The joint family which I was raised was quite women dominated and it was one of the reason most of the boys were emasculated and hardly have dominating characters of other boys which I used to see in others.So I guess if Samprada that my Grand parents had been influenced had not taught women to be second class citizen

[Guest]

54 minutes ago, amardeep said:

I dont think there is anything historical to suggest that women were oblighed to wear dastaars. The few references that have been posted deal with nihang women,- not ordinary Sikhs. Like I said, they can if they want but i dont think its mandatory.

Males and females in Sikhi are not supposed to be 100 % alike. Soon we will start seeing women taking the name 'Singh' and abolish Kaur because they will argue that there is 110% equality in Sikhi so why would the Guru give the females another name?

Funny, you should say this!  Men and women can never look the same ever!   Women have different body shapes with soft gentle voices!  Men on the other hand are full of extra testosterone running in their bodies and therefore very loud, aggressive and always confrontational!!  They can never look the same ever!  Women wear executive suits all time nowadays in their work  lives but they don't ever look like men, even if their hair is cut short back and sides!!  No matter, how they try, they can never look alike!!  Sorry to disappoint you sir!

Of course, their choice to wear it or not depends on how close they feel to the Khalsa philosophy and it's ideals!  And there are many women with surnames 'Singh' but when they are really Kaurs.  

[HSD1]

This is a terrible topic, it just gives the fundos a chance to get wound up and show the rest of us how stupid they are. Still better than most of Paapiman's spam topics though.

[BhagatSingh]

3 hours ago, amardeep said:

The way I see it is that women are free to wear a dastaar if they so wish but it is not mandatory upon them. For Khalsa men it is mandatory.

Source?

[Rock]

Just now, BhagatSingh said:

Source?

I like this guy.

[amardeep]

3 minutes ago, BhagatSingh said:

Source?

Huh? Are you serios? You can see it with all the living tradtions, - amritdhari men always wear a turban. Many rahitname also cover it.

Edited March 22, 2016 by amardeep

[kdsingh80]

26 minutes ago, Guest said:

Funny, you should say this!  Men and women can never look the same ever!   Women have different body shapes with soft gentle voices!  Men on the other hand are full of extra testosterone running in their bodies and therefore very loud, aggressive and always confrontational!!  They can never look the same ever!  Women wear executive suits all time nowadays in their work  lives but they don't ever look like men, even if their hair is cut short back and sides!!  No matter, how they try, they can never look alike!!  Sorry to disappoint you sir!

Of course, their choice to wear it or not depends on how close they feel to the Khalsa philosophy and it's ideals!  And there are many women with surnames 'Singh' but when they are really Kaurs.  

Not true , it depends on races.sometimes you are really puzzled when you see mongloid woman with man like haircut and male dress and you have really hard time to guess whether it was a man or woman unless you look very carefully .

[BhagatSingh]

1 minute ago, amardeep said:

Huh? Are you serios? You can see it with all the living tradtions, - amritdhari men always wear a turban. Many rahitname also cover it.

One of the old works I read, the name of which escapes me, mentioned 3 mandatory kakkars-

Kesh
Karha
Kurd