Sardar Ji taught lesson to Bhaiya who made 12 clock Joke in Delhi. It helps to stay in good shape.

[paapiman]

26 minutes ago, DSG said:

• Sikhs (2% Indian population) give 80% of sacrifices in freedom struggle

Bro, the above seems to be false. There is no doubt that Sikhs sacrificed a lot during India's freedom struggle, much more than their proportion (less than 2% before Partition), but we should not exaggerate the numbers. If we go by numbers, Hindus probably scarified more. Even if you look at Punjabi freedom fighters, Hindus feature among them too. Majority of the freedom fighters from Bengal, Maharashtra and UP were Hindus. These states (including Punjab) produced most of the freedom fighters.

With regards to the language issue, script factor (Gurmukhi and Devnagari) was also in play.

Anyways, we can discuss these issues in a separate topic, if you wish. The leaflet does seem to have some errors.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[DSG]

Quote

ro, the above seems to be false. There is no doubt that Sikhs sacrificed a lot during India's freedom struggle, much more than their proportion (less than 2% before Partition), but we should not exaggerate the numbers. If we go by numbers, Hindus probably scarified more. Even if you look at Punjabi freedom fighters, Hindus feature among them too. Majority of the freedom fighters from Bengal, Maharashtra and UP were Hindus. These states (including Punjab) produced most of the freedom fighters.

With regards to the language issue, script factor (Gurmukhi and Devnagari) was also in play.

Anyways, we can discuss this issues in a separate topic, if you wish. The leaflet does seem to have some errors.

could well be ,  to be honest dont know how accurate it is or the resources they used ( if you feel you have vlaid figures and facts please feel free to email them or correct them , i'm sure they will change it ), but what they are trying to portray is that , in particular SIKHS only made 2% of the Indian population but 80% of the Sikhs from the 2% population gave up their lives. But regardless of the figures the point is that SIKHS being minority in India as well as other minorities , see India as their country so why are they not getting justice even today . 

[jaikaara]

6 minutes ago, DSG said:

could well be ,  to be honest dont know how accurate it is or the resources they used ( if you feel you have vlaid figures and facts please feel free to email them or correct them , i'm sure they will change it ), but what they are trying to portray is that , in particular SIKHS only made 2% of the Indian population but 80% of the Sikhs from the 2% population gave up their lives. But regardless of the figures the point is that SIKHS being minority in India as well as other minorities , see India as their country so why are they not getting justice even today . 

Bro the way the agitations go ..there is bound to be violence, the last beadbi issue...some planning was done to start the issue and splinter groups too advantaged and hijacked the stage from mainstream..they got violent when the authorities of the SGPC came to meet them. I know innocents get caught in crossfire and i feel bad about it too but for everything like a child if we rub ourselves in the muck we are not making sense.

All this 2% versus the others is all unaccounted bunch of exaggeration, for that matter there are many Muslims too who were not named ..the Gadar movement was a mixture and it was more like Punjab Maharashtra and Bengal revolutionaries .

[paapiman]

13 minutes ago, DSG said:

could well be ,  to be honest dont know how accurate it is or the resources they used ( if you feel you have vlaid figures and facts please feel free to email them or correct them , i'm sure they will change it ), but what they are trying to portray is that , in particular SIKHS only made 2% of the Indian population but 80% of the Sikhs from the 2% population gave up their lives. But regardless of the figures the point is that SIKHS being minority in India as well as other minorities , see India as their country so why are they not getting justice even today . 

Bro, Hindus are suffering in India too. There is too much corruption there.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

3 minutes ago, jaikaara said:

All this 2% versus the others is all unaccounted bunch of exaggeration, for that matter there are many Muslims too who were not named ..the Gadar movement was a mixture and it was more like Punjab Maharashtra and Bengal revolutionaries .

Bro, there were Muslims (more than 20% of India's population - before Partition) too who sacrificed in India's freedom struggle, but most likely Sikhs did more.

Gadar movement had Hindus (Rash Bihari Bose jee, Lala Hardayal, Pandit Kanshi Ram jee, etc) in them. Bengali revolutionaries performed some daring and courageous deeds.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[DSG]

Quote

Bro, Hindus are suffering in India too. There is too much corruption there.

I agree  so much corruption , so many people from all backgrounds suffering, but the question is what is being done to help them ?

Do we just keep a low profile ( let it be , let it be ,let it be ... sorry burst out into a song their mate LOL)  , and carry on with our normal daily chores or do we "try" and make a change in whatever way shape or form , whether we reside in India or outside .

I also think that organisations like Basics of Sikhi , RajoanaTV need to be highlighted more as I think they are doing a fantastic job ..... have a massive education program throughout the world , as sikhi is a Universal religion . You never know with wahegurus kirpa we may find thee true leader and unite us all.

[jaikaara]

35 minutes ago, paapiman said:

Bro, Hindus are suffering in India too. There is too much corruption there.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Yes absolutely, you think Hindus dont get killed in agitations ? just like Punjab farmer agitations in Maharashtra have been curbed down with bullets. It is a part of the system versus the common man...its not injustice to one single community .

[jaikaara]

27 minutes ago, paapiman said:

Bro, there were Muslims (more than 20% of India's population - before Partition) too who sacrificed in India's freedom struggle, but most likely Sikhs did more.

Gadar movement had Hindus (Rash Bihari Bose jee, Lala Hardayal, Pandit Kanshi Ram jee, etc) in them. Bengali revolutionaries performed some daring and courageous deeds.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Indeed ! All of these revolutionaries had one aim, to free the Nation of foriegn rule ..

if you look at the current scenario you will find Hindu youth sporting Raaj Karega Khalsa stickers ..if all this was anti sikh then this wouldnt be the case

[kudrat44]

On 29 April 2016 at 11:28 PM, Rock said:

http://dailysikhupdates.com/man-makes-racist-remark-sikh-questioned-denies/

This must have happened after the culprit saw the latest Santa Banta limited movie.  He deserved to be hanged upside down from a tree.

[DSG]

Quote

Oh please this 80% sacrifice in freedom struggle is just a propaganda 

I think you are failing to understand the point , what about all the other points are they propaganda too. Come on Kd Singh parji wake up , dont deny theres a need for justice in India , especially for Sikhs.

  

[kdsingh80]

16 hours ago, DSG said:

I think you are failing to understand the point , what about all the other points are they propaganda too. Come on Kd Singh parji wake up , dont deny theres a need for justice in India , especially for Sikhs.

  

We need justice , almost every sikh agree on that , but the question is how? Sikhs have approached UN and courts in developed nations , but is there any result ? did any nation even raised this issue with India ? did they even ask them to speed up 1984 trials ? the answer is no  so how can we get justice?

Its almost 32 years for 1984 , even 12 year old kids are now in mid 40s , many victims and perpators died their natural death, proving in court what happened in 1984 is almost impossible so there is hardly any way apart form one which I said in earlier post.

My point is that thinking that UN or white nations will force India to make a separate nation for sikhs just because sikhs outside have 1-2 million signatures is laughable. They never even raised the issue of injustices happened to sikhs in their talks , how come they will help sikhs to create a separate nation that too on based on religion is beyond my understanding

[DSG]

Quote

We need justice , almost every sikh agree on that , but the question is how?

There are alot of organisations that keep on knocking on the door of the indian judicial system to punish the culprits . Even though delay tactics are being played .  If you think about it , the truth is out there re 1984 , with documented evidence , now if the government openly says , lets give SIkhs justice , you'll see a lot of leaders at the time being punished , and it will open a can of worms . So there stance is to delay , divert their attention as to avoid any punishment. In World WAR I &II the perpetrators who are now in their 80's and 90's have been punished for their war crimes ( its never too late , but the fight must continue) As Phoolka mentioned , he will keep dragging the criminals to court regardless of the outcome , keep pounding them with case after case. This way people get educated about the truth , the more they are aware the more impact it will have to seek justice.

Quote

id any nation even raised this issue with India ? did they even ask them to speed up 1984 trials ? 

 The 2020 referendum in India , will hopefully get UN to apply pressure on India as long as they get 5 million signatures from Punjab. The chance and opportunity is still their as India being part of the UN they have to oblige.( Yes I agree Politics is very dirty , nowadays its more about money and Economy)

 

Quote

My point is that thinking that UN or white nations will force India to make a separate nation for sikhs just because sikhs outside have 1-2 million signatures is laughable. 

 

The signatures will have to come from Punjab Sangat , 5 million of them in order for the UN to intervene. 

I agree up to a point we have no leaders , the current ones are no leaders at all, and it is scarey .Hypothetically speaking we get what we want , are we ready to run our own sovereign country ? ( Theres nothing really concrete regarding the policies , leaders, roles etc.. that are being discussed. May be someone is working on it , or even on the last minute  as per our tradition:):)

I think the current leaders, organisations need to discuss these matters make it more open and visible to the public regardless of their back ground. But the fear I think in India is if someone stands up , a) will they be allowed. b) will they be put down , false allegations made against them c) threatened

hence no one stands up due to concerns over their well being and safety.

The Sikh religion is complete , and has the full credentials of leading any nation. Dhan Dhan Guru nanak dev jis mission of earning an honest living , sharing what you earn with others, naam japna , compassion , seva .. theres nothing wrong with that . Its "us" people who are at fault and dont want to see a change and are too deeply involved in  our own personal , selfish agendas.

 

 

 

[IJJSingh]

On 5/5/2016 at 7:47 AM, kdsingh80 said:

Oh please this 80% sacrifice in freedom struggle is just a propaganda , can you show me stats where 80% died are sikhs , I have yet to read any credible source that 80% died in freedom struggle were sikhs,

Freedom struggle was multi-faceted, it would be difficult to define what constitutes a "sacrifice", let alone assign a statistic to it.  However, when you look at official statistics for some key areas and events, Sikhs' contribution was overwhelmingly higher compared to the other Indian communities.  The following are statistics provided by Maulana Abul Kalam Azad  (Maulana was a famous scholar and a freedom fighter, he became the first Education Minister of Independent India):

• Out of 2125 Indians killed in atrocities by the British, 1550 (73%) were Sikhs.
• Out of 2664 Indian deported for life to Andaman islands (the place where the British exiled political prisoners and hardened criminals), 2147 (80%) were Sikhs.
• Out of 121 Indians sent to gallows, 73 (60%) were Sikhs.
• At Jalliawalla Bagh out of the 1302 men, women and children slaughtered, 799 (61%) were Sikhs

Above statistics are also quoted on p185, The Sikhs in History a millenium study. by Dr. Sangat Singh. 

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

 

[Guest Jung Chamkaur]

local song auwa vijay k संदर्भ में...
।। झल्लै आऊवो ।।
वणिया वाली गोचर मांए, काळो लोग पडियो ओ ,
राजाजी रै भेळो तो फिरंगी लडियो ओ,
काळी टोपी रो ।
हे ओ काळी टोपी रो, फिरंगी फैलाव कीधो ओ,
काळी टोपी रो ।
बारली तोपां रा गोला धूडगढ में लागे ओ ।
मांयली तोपां रा गोलां तंबू तोडे ओ,
झल्लै आऊवो ।
हे ओ झल्लै आऊवो, आऊवो धरती रो थांबो ओ,
झल्लै आऊवो ।
मांयली तोपां तो छूटै आडावळौ धजै ओ,
आऊवे रो नाथ तो सुगाळी ने पूजै ओ ,
झगडो आदरियो ।
हे ओ झगडो आदरियो, आऊवो झगडा ने बांको ओ,
झगडो आदरियो ।
राजाजी रा घोडलिया काळा रै लारै दौडै ओ।
आऊवा रा घोडा तो पछाडी तोडे ओ,
झगडो व्हैण दो
ढोल बाजे, थाली बाजे, भेळौ बाजै बांकियो ओ,
अजंट ने मारने दरवाजे नांकियो ओ,
जूंझे आऊवो ।
हे ओ जूंझे आऊवो, आऊवो मुलकां मे चावो ओ,
जूंझे आऊवो ।

Auwa thakur kushal singh
By the year 1843, the royal lineage of Rathores of Marwar was lapsed without a heir after the death of Man Singh. Takhat Singh was adopted from Ahmadnagar (Gujarat), following the demise of Man Singh. Takhat Singh was a very loyal king to British. Even he had given Sambhar Lake to British government. He was popular for having more than 130 ladies in his harem, including queens, concubines. Most of the time, king was busy in Janan Khana. The administration was run by other people under the influence of British. Being adopted from Gujarat, most of nobles (Sardars) were unhappy from the King, another reason was he had given major posts to gujarati peoples who came along with him from Ahmednagar. Also, the British had become more important than the Sardars. Rajputs of Marwar were not in the favour of British control of power. They frequently disobeyed orders of Takhat Singh and the British.
In the year 1857, the revolt against the British started, the King had issued the orders not to indulge in any such activities and also not to give shelter to any revolutionary. Revolutionary army from Neemuch Cantt tookm shelter at Auwa Thakur Khushal Singh, a premier noble of Marwar. Jodhpur State sent its force under Kiledar Anar Singh Panwar of Mokala to crush the rebels at Auwa and teach Khushal Singh a lesson. Thakur of Auwa was joined by forces of Thakurs of Asop, Lasani, Lambian, Banta, Bhimanlia, Badsan, Rajoda, Sonei Koopawatan, Radawas, Shapuni, Sovaniya, Sela and Nerawas, Roopnagar, Salumbar, Alniyawas etc. Overall there were more than 5000 rajputs in Auwa. Fierced battle took place near the village of Bithuda, where forces of Auwa defeated Jodhpur State forces and Kiledar Anar Singh was killed in the battle. Remaning force of Jodhpur ran away. Despite this humiliating defeat, Takhat Singh was not satisfied. Again, he sent forces having assistance from British. Lt. General Lawrence, who was the A.G.G. (Agent of Governor General) at Ajmer for Banna n baisa ''the living legends of rajputana''na, also came with some forces to attack Auwa. His three different attacks were repulsed with determination. The Jodhpur state forces failed to succeed again, as Auwa was protected on the west, to some extent on the North by a fortification wall on the East was protected by a high earth mound, so the outside attack by cannons could not do any damage, as the cannonballs were absorbed by the earthen mound. Capt. Mason, who was the British Residency Officer at Jodhpur, arrived Auwa with his artillery, but he lost his way to British camp and came straight towards the Rajput camp. He was shot dead and his head was cut-off and was hanged at the fort-gate (in pic.).
The siege of Auwa lasted from September 1857 to January 1858. When in January 1858, Holmes invaded Auwa with a huge army consisting of nearly 30,000 troops on the 20th January 1858 to suppress the revolt, Auwa Thakur made defence preparations and walls of Auwa fort were equipped with 50 artillery pieces. The fighting went on four days. Auwa had lost many warriors. Thakur Kushal Singh had gone out from the east side which was safer to venture out to get more help from the Rajputs, Rawat and Bhil tribes living in the Aravali hills about 15 to 16 Km to the east and from his in-laws, Solankis of Roopanagar (Mewar). The fighting continued six days, the besieged were reduced to sheer helplessness and, the stratagem organised by the Jodhpur troops who persuaded the Kiledar of Auwa (Bhan Singh Champawat) to betray, the fort gates were opened.
They plundered the village mercilessly, killed all survivors, the fort and the palace were burnt. The Jodhpur State and British troops were not satisfied merely with the occupation of the fort. Even the temples and their statues were not spared. So fierce was the spirit of vengeance that even trees were cut down, to destroy any sign to recall the memories of Auwa. They destroyed everything to erase the battle of Auwa from history, but still the spirit of the Rajputs of Auwa, Asop, Alniyawas,Sindarli,Kerli ,Roopnagar, Salumbar, Lasani, Banta,Bali and many others, villagers of Auwa is alive in the memories of their people, who faught and gave their life but refused to give away their land to British unlike their King Takhat Singh. To their honour, people in the villages of Godwar, generations after generations still recite this story and the brave fight put up by Thakur Kushal Singh, against the British, to their children and singing songs during spring festival of Holi (in pic), about Capt. Mason’s head being strung at the fort gate, and about Thakur Kushal Singh’s glorious battles with the British and Jodhpur state forces. Generations after generations, these songs still mark the patriotism and the bravery of these warriors and ensure that their sacrifice is not forgotten and their memory still lives in the heart of their people.

[Guest Jung Chamkaur]

Thakur Kushal Singh's family has had around 6-7 men die in service in the Indian Army as well. 

All through 1858 Begum Hazrat Mahal kept collecting land revenue and the Rajput Chiefs of her army plunged headlong intro destroying British chowkies and thanas. The British lost control of areas around Lucknow and in Talooqa Mahona, Talooqdar Drigh’lai Singh set up his administration whereas in Ruiya (Hardoi, U.P.) Raja Narpat Singh defeated Brigadier-General Walpole and his Scottish Highlanders in a decisive engagement in which Brigadier Adrian Hope and many other British soldiers met their demise. Thakur Gulab Singh was the victor of anti-British skirmishes in Lakshmangarh and Rahimabad (Lucknow, U.P.). Bodies of slain British officers were paraded in towns and qasbas and the infamous Bais Rana Beni Madho Singh also won a few battles before getting down to harassing the enemy by hit and run tactics.

 

Kunwar Singh Parmar of Jagdishpur (Bihar) and his brothers, Amar Singh and Dayal Singh, obtained more success against the English in the battlefield and carried on a more vigorous and extended campaign than any other Indian chiefs of their time. For two years did he fight against them and at Danapur he defeated a European garrison and the Sikhs under Captain Dunbar who were sent to relieve the British force there. Several English officers including Dunbar were killed in this battle where McDonell describes the carnage as such:

“Of the four hundred men who had gone out on the day before, full of health and hope, one half had been left behind to gorge the vultures and jackals, and of those who returned about fifty were wounded."

Kunwar Singh died at the age of eighty due to battle fatigue and his brother Amar Singh carried on the struggle until the Gurkhas of Nepal Tarai captured him once he crossed into their region and handed him over to the English. Amar Singh died at Gorakhpur in 1860.

 

When the uprising, popularly known as Gadar, took place in 1857 many Rajput Jagirdars became rebellious and defiant against the British Crown:

Thakur Hari Singh Bidawat of Thathawata in Choru
Thakur Bishan Singh Medtiya of Gular in Nagaur
Thakur Shivnath Singh Kumpawat of Asop in Jodhpur
Thakur Shyam Singh Admera of Chohtan in Badmer
Thakur Nathu Singh Tejawat of Bhatana in Sirohi
Thakur Balwant Singh of Gothda Jagirdari in Bundi
Thakur Prithvi Singh Hada of Kotah
Rawat Jodh Singh Chauhan of Kotharia (direct descendants of Rai Pithora III)
Thakur Ghuman Singh of Batan
Rao Kesari Singh of Salumbar
Thakur Prithvi Singh of Lambia
Thakur Khumman Singh Bidawat of Lodhsar
Rao Sagat Singh Champawat of Sinli
Thakur Khushal Singh Champawat of Auwa
Thakur Bhan Singh of Guiar 
Thakur Ajit Singh of Alyaniyawas
The Thakur of Bajawas
The Solanki Thakur of Roopnagar Jagir in Udaipur
The Thakur of Pokhran

 

[kdsingh80]

7 hours ago, IJJSingh said:

Freedom struggle was multi-faceted, it would be difficult to define what constitutes a "sacrifice", let alone assign a statistic to it.  However, when you look at official statistics for some key areas and events, Sikhs' contribution was overwhelmingly higher compared to the other Indian communities.  The following are statistics provided by Maulana Abul Kalam Azad  (Maulana was a famous scholar and a freedom fighter, he became the first Education Minister of Independent India):

• Out of 2125 Indians killed in atrocities by the British, 1550 (73%) were Sikhs.
• Out of 2664 Indian deported for life to Andaman islands (the place where the British exiled political prisoners and hardened criminals), 2147 (80%) were Sikhs.
• Out of 121 Indians sent to gallows, 73 (60%) were Sikhs.
• At Jalliawalla Bagh out of the 1302 men, women and children slaughtered, 799 (61%) were Sikhs

Above statistics are also quoted on p185, The Sikhs in History a millenium study. by Dr. Sangat Singh. 

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh

 

I am really surprised that scholar like you believe in the above stats

https://hinduperspective.com/2013/08/21/list-of-indian-freedom-fighters-who-perished-in-struggle-against-british-colonialism-between-1883-1943/

 

The above is the list of India freedom fighters killed by Britishers , I don't see that 70-80% figure

 

also here is the blog of woman  who visited the Andman

http://banjaran1949.blogspot.in/2012/04/22-cellular-jail-port-blair-india.html

 

Going through the names of those who sacrificed their lives in the freedom struggle, one interesting observation was that the maximum convicts in Cellular Jail were from Bengal, followed by Sikhs from Punjab and some from Uttar Pradesh. Here and there, some names appeared to be from Maharashtra also. Other states went almost unrepresented. Perhaps their freedom-fighters were sent to some other jails.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------

Sikhs were no doubt high in proportion but still they are 2nd, Bengali's are on top,.

[paapiman]

6 hours ago, kdsingh80 said:

I am really surprised that scholar like you believe in the above stats

Bro, do you think that the above stats by Maulana Abul Kalam Azad are incorrect?

 

6 hours ago, kdsingh80 said:

https://hinduperspective.com/2013/08/21/list-of-indian-freedom-fighters-who-perished-in-struggle-against-british-colonialism-between-1883-1943/

The above is the list of India freedom fighters killed by Britishers , I don't see that 70-80% figure

• The above does not mention the Shaheeds of the Babbar Akali Lehar, who were all Sikhs.
• It does not mention the Shaheeds of the Namdhari movement, who were all Sikhs.
• Not all names of Ghadari revolutionaries are given.
• Many Sikhs were also part of the Azad Hind Fauj, led by Subash Chandar Bose jee.

 

Daas is not saying that Sikhs did more sacrifices than Hindus (in terms of numbers), but there were definitely more Sikh Shaheeds, than mentioned in the link above.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

 

[paapiman]

@N30 S!NGH@amardeep- Can you please move all the posts related to India's freedom struggle to a separate topic?

Thanks a lot

 

Bhul chuk maaf

 

[IJJSingh]

7 hours ago, kdsingh80 said:

The above is the list of India freedom fighters killed by Britishers , I don't see that 70-80% figure

Thanks for providing the list.  Going by this list, I counted 19 (16%) people who appear to be Sikhs.  This is over ten times the proportion of Sikhs in per-independence India.

 

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji i Fateh

[kdsingh80]

5 hours ago, paapiman said:

Bro, do you think that the above stats by Maulana Abul Kalam Azad are incorrect?

 

• The above does not mention the Shaheeds of the Babbar Akali Lehar, who were all Sikhs.
• It does not mention the Shaheeds of the Namdhari movement, who were all Sikhs.
• Not all names of Ghadari revolutionaries are given.
• Many Sikhs were also part of the Azad Hind Fauj, led by Subash Chandar Bose jee.

 

Daas is not saying that Sikhs did more sacrifices than Hindus (in terms of numbers), but there were definitely more Sikh Shaheeds, than mentioned in the link above.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

 

@paapiman Can you show me original link where Maulana Azad said this, From where he picked up those stats

 

As far your counting of other movements , definately those were sikhs , but then you have to Add 1857 shaheeds in which Sikhs actually supported Britishers, that will hit sikh proportion also not to to forgot several revolts against Britishers happened in several parts of India , you have to add all those shaheeds , 

[kdsingh80]

4 hours ago, IJJSingh said:

Thanks for providing the list.  Going by this list, I counted 19 (16%) people who appear to be Sikhs.  This is over ten times the proportion of Sikhs in per-independence India.

 

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji i Fateh

Thanks , 16% is actual figure backed by solid stats this type of figure should be propagated not 70-80

[paapiman]

7 minutes ago, kdsingh80 said:

As far your counting of other movements , definately those were sikhs , but then you have to Add 1857 shaheeds in which Sikhs actually supported Britishers, that will hit sikh proportion also not to to forgot several revolts against Britishers happened in several parts of India , you have to add all those shaheeds , 

Bro, if 1857 revolt and other revolts are taken into account, then the Anglo-Sikh wars will have to be taken into consideration too. As a result of which, the Sikh numbers will increase too. 

IMHO, Sikh percentage (of Shaheeds) would be at least 20-30%.

 

Bhul chul maaf

[Guest Hoshiarpur.Singh]

It's irrelevant who did more because ultimately the abrahamism wants to extinguish both. 

 

I don't see any way tO Compromise with a secular that has its mission to destroy Dharam. 

So independence movement should be kept alive, even if abroad simply to keep both sides on their toes. Similar to sunni shia or catholic orthodox divide. 

 

There are fundamental  social & economic issues in Bharat Varsh that can be solved with the indian republic. 

Example is lack of military development or nuclear triad sufficient to bring to heel christian west. 

Past that, it's up to Akal Purakh but I always considered pakistan to be true Punjab. 

 

Needs to be cleansed, 

 

I am against Indian Republic but, 

 

If you say you are against Bharat Varsh & ਰਾਜਾਭਾਰਤis then it is war

 

ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾ।।ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਹਿ।।