Sikhi and Conversions

[ASP]

Is it true that Sikh religion does not allow forced conversions of non-sikhs? If it is, where is the evidence?

[paapiman]

16 hours ago, ASP said:

Is it true that Sikh religion does not allow forced conversions of non-sikhs? If it is, where is the evidence?

Obviously, Sikhism does not allow forced conversions.

Sri Satguru jee (Ninth Master) gave martyrdom(Shaheedi) for standing up against forced conversions. Isn't that enough for evidence?

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

On 8/23/2018 at 3:18 PM, ASP said:

Is it true that Sikh religion does not allow forced conversions of non-sikhs? If it is, where is the evidence?

In Sri Japji Sahib jee, there is a Pauri which lists all the immoral/unethical/sinful activities which people indulge in.

Please look at a verse from that Pauri below:

ਅਸੰਖ ਅਮਰ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਹਿ ਜੋਰ ॥

Countless impose their will by force.

 

From the above verse, one can easily deduce that forcing someone to adopt a religion is an immoral activity and thereby, completely against Sikh religion.

There are more verses which can allude to this fact. Please let me know, if you want to know more about them.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[ASP]

When I say ‘forced’, I don’t mean like forcing someone with intimidation!   Say for example, interfaith marriages are not allowed anymore in most gurdwaras in most countries. If anyone wishes to marry a person from a different faith, they have to convert or adopt Sikhism before Anand Karaj can take place. Surely, this is forcing someone to convert, isn’t it?

[dalsingh101]

2 hours ago, ASP said:

When I say ‘forced’, I don’t mean like forcing someone with intimidation!   Say for example, interfaith marriages are not allowed anymore in most gurdwaras in most countries. If anyone wishes to marry a person from a different faith, they have to convert or adopt Sikhism before Anand Karaj can take place. Surely, this is forcing someone to convert, isn’t it?

No it isn't, it's just trying to uphold the sanctity of Anand Karaj. 

[ASP]

On 8/26/2018 at 5:08 AM, paapiman said:

In Sri Japji Sahib jee, there is a Pauri which lists all the immoral/unethical/sinful activities which people indulge in.

Please look at a verse from that Pauri below:

ਅਸੰਖ ਅਮਰ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਹਿ ਜੋਰ ॥

Countless impose their will by force.

 

From the above verse, one can easily deduce that forcing someone to adopt a religion is an immoral activity and thereby, completely against Sikh religion.

There are more verses which can allude to this fact. Please let me know, if you want to know more about them.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Agreed, but the Bani also says: 

‘Asankh Galwadd Hatiya Kamai’. 

Surely then, the question arises: Why do sikhs eat meat?? 

[ASP]

12 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

No it isn't, it's just trying to uphold the sanctity of Anand Karaj. 

Agreed, but why do they then revert to their old ways,  shave beards, drink alcohol, and do many other anti-Sikh things as soon as the ceremony is over?

[paapiman]

6 hours ago, ASP said:

Agreed, but why do they then revert to their old ways,  shave beards, drink alcohol, and do many other anti-Sikh things as soon as the ceremony is over?

Daas has heard in Katha that in the olden times non-Amritdhari couples (born in Sikh families) were told to take a vow that they would get Baptized in the future. Only after that Anand Karaj was performed for them. We need to bring back this old tradition into the Panth.

People should definitely refrain from indulging in anti-Gurmat activities after such a pious ceremony.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[paapiman]

21 hours ago, ASP said:

Say for example, interfaith marriages are not allowed anymore in most gurdwaras in most countries. If anyone wishes to marry a person from a different faith, they have to convert or adopt Sikhism before Anand Karaj can take place. Surely, this is forcing someone to convert, isn’t it?

IMHO, no one can stop a couple (Sikh or non-Sikh) from booking a hall in the Gurudwara, reading Sri Laavan Sahib jee themselves and doing parikarma around Maharaaj.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

[dalsingh101]

10 hours ago, ASP said:

Agreed, but why do they then revert to their old ways,  shave beards, drink alcohol, and do many other anti-Sikh things as soon as the ceremony is over?

It's like Jagraj from BOS said: If we have a problem (and the reasons for this are multiple, including the influence of rural Panjabi culture with the drinking) - we do not want to make things worse. 

The panth itself has been brainwashed (in my opinion) to following certain partying and 'living it up' aspects of Jut culture, which have become deeply ingrained within it. This started during the colonial period in my opinion and is closely tied to the economic strategies being employed then. If sh1tloads of money was being made from agriculture - it made sense to play down (or discourage) the militant (and potentially dangerous) nature of Sikhi with the less threatening and less cerebral culture of farmers. 

[RidSid]

On 8/29/2018 at 6:35 PM, ASP said:

When I say ‘forced’, I don’t mean like forcing someone with intimidation!   Say for example, interfaith marriages are not allowed anymore in most gurdwaras in most countries. If anyone wishes to marry a person from a different faith, they have to convert or adopt Sikhism before Anand Karaj can take place. Surely, this is forcing someone to convert, isn’t it?

They don’t convert fully though! They use sikhi only for getting married and the ceremony itself is not long enough for them to fully commit themselves to sikhi in a permanent way. Basically they are all users, nothing more, nothing less. It is all a facade to fool everyone. Have you ever observed their children? None of them are proper Sikhs because they have been brought up by liberals to become liberals, meaning they feel very proud to declare that their children have turned out to be very open minded towards conversions and other evils as grown ups. 

[sarabatam]

On 8/23/2018 at 3:18 PM, ASP said:

Is it true that Sikh religion does not allow forced conversions of non-sikhs? If it is, where is the evidence?

Its true because our own Guru sahib refuse to convert to different faith and were matyred because of that. We have examples of that, precedence is already set thats why we don't belong to forced conversions of non sikhs. Here are the small videos:

 

 

 

[shangrilla100]

On 8/23/2018 at 8:18 PM, ASP said:

Is it true that Sikh religion does not allow forced conversions of non-sikhs? If it is, where is the evidence?

We can’t even convert those born in sikh families to follow proper sikhi, how are we going to convert non-Sikhs to sikhi?  We have far too many parchaaraks doing 3rd class parchaar, let there be no question about this!  It is not the quality of the parchaar that counts, it is the quality of the parchaaraks that counts! I don’t listen to any of them because they don’t appeal to me one little bit! They just have to open their mouths and I am off! None of them come across as if they are genuine followers of sikhi! Having said this, I do believe very firmly that only sants should do the parchaar because they have first hand experience of the Gurbani, and they are or have walked the path themselves! Only the sants are entitled to do the parchaar, but where are they? Where can you find them in this day and age? 

I have no time for money hungary kirtanees, kathavachaks, lookalike Nihang singhs, jathebandi characters/groups or anyone who look like a Sikh but are not a Sikh!

We definitely don’t want empty vessels making useless noises in the name of parchaar when they have not themselves embraced the messesge contained in the parchaar they are doing! The are all empty vessels without Amal.

[tva prasad]

Now nihang singhs aren't Sikhs. What is this pure Sikhi you speak of, please enlighten us. 

21 hours ago, shangrilla100 said:

We can’t even convert those born in sikh families to follow proper sikhi, how are we going to convert non-Sikhs to sikhi?  We have far too many parchaaraks doing 3rd class parchaar, let there be no question about this!  It is not the quality of the parchaar that counts, it is the quality of the parchaaraks that counts! I don’t listen to any of them because they don’t appeal to me one little bit! They just have to open their mouths and I am off! None of them come across as if they are genuine followers of sikhi! Having said this, I do believe very firmly that only sants should do the parchaar because they have first hand experience of the Gurbani, and they are or have walked the path themselves! Only the sants are entitled to do the parchaar, but where are they? Where can you find them in this day and age? 

I have no time for money hungary kirtanees, kathavachaks, lookalike Nihang singhs, jathebandi characters/groups or anyone who look like a Sikh but are not a Sikh!

We definitely don’t want empty vessels making useless noises in the name of parchaar when they have not themselves embraced the messesge contained in the parchaar they are doing! The are all empty vessels without Amal.

 

[shangrilla100]

Enlightenment requires hardwork and discipline.

[RidSid]

On 9/18/2018 at 1:53 PM, shangrilla100 said:

We can’t even convert those born in sikh families to follow proper sikhi, how are we going to convert non-Sikhs to sikhi?  We have far too many parchaaraks doing 3rd class parchaar, let there be no question about this!  It is not the quality of the parchaar that counts, it is the quality of the parchaaraks that counts! I don’t listen to any of them because they don’t appeal to me one little bit! They just have to open their mouths and I am off! None of them come across as if they are genuine followers of sikhi! Having said this, I do believe very firmly that only sants should do the parchaar because they have first hand experience of the Gurbani, and they are or have walked the path themselves! Only the sants are entitled to do the parchaar, but where are they? Where can you find them in this day and age? 

I have no time for money hungary kirtanees, kathavachaks, lookalike Nihang singhs, jathebandi characters/groups or anyone who look like a Sikh but are not a Sikh!

We definitely don’t want empty vessels making useless noises in the name of parchaar when they have not themselves embraced the messesge contained in the parchaar they are doing! The are all empty vessels without Amal.

Have you been reading this :-

 

www.sikhanswers.com

 

The Nihang (Punjabi: ਨਿਹੰਗ) are an armed Sikh warrior order. They are also referred to as Akali (lit. ... Nihang are believed to have originated either from Fateh Singh and the attire he wore or from the "Akal Sena" (lit. Army of the Immortal) started by Guru Hargobind.

Nihang - WikipediaThey