Sikhi compared to Advaita Vedanta

[PhunkeyPhish]

I'm relatively new to Sikhi, study/practicing off and on for several years now. I am even newer to Advaita Vedanta, but through the studies of it so far it seems like there are many, many similarities between the two paths. It seems like maybe the biggest difference is the emphasis put on devotion to Waheguru, or Brhaman, or whatever name you want to apply, but the essential teaching and philosophy is pretty similar. What do you guys who probably know way more about Sikhi and maybe Vedanta, as well, think? 

Om shanti shanti shanti.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh. 

[dalsingh101]

13 hours ago, PhunkeyPhish said:

I'm relatively new to Sikhi, study/practicing off and on for several years now. I am even newer to Advaita Vedanta, but through the studies of it so far it seems like there are many, many similarities between the two paths. It seems like maybe the biggest difference is the emphasis put on devotion to Waheguru, or Brhaman, or whatever name you want to apply, but the essential teaching and philosophy is pretty similar. What do you guys who probably know way more about Sikhi and maybe Vedanta, as well, think? 

Om shanti shanti shanti.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, Waheguru ji ki fateh. 

Although I agree that there may be overlap between the two, I think that the inherent social structure of Sikhi (which most SIkhs don't practice) is pretty unique though. 

The Khalsa ideal of a spiritual, militaristic, egalitarian society is unique in my opinion. 

[sarabatam]

Here is swami brahm dev udasi clarifies gurmat position its bhagti/prem~gyan samucha vad combined together:

 

[PhunkeyPhish]

10 hours ago, sarabatam said:

Here is swami brahm dev udasi clarifies gurmat position its bhagti/prem~gyan samucha vad combined together:

 

Thanks. Very interesting discussion there. 

[PhunkeyPhish]

10 hours ago, dalsingh101 said:

Although I agree that there may be overlap between the two, I think that the inherent social structure of Sikhi (which most SIkhs don't practice) is pretty unique though. 

The Khalsa ideal of a spiritual, militaristic, egalitarian society is unique in my opinion. 

Yes, I agree that the Social structure of Sikhi is very unique and different from Vedanta, but the beliefs and practices are very similar. As a non-Punjabi the social structure and culture of Sikhi is challenging for me which is where Vedanta is quite helpful. But, I still love the teachings and writings of the Sikh Gurus and blending Sikhi and Advaita Vedanta has been very satisfying for me. 

[dalsingh101]

On 11/14/2020 at 2:39 AM, PhunkeyPhish said:

As a non-Punjabi the social structure and culture of Sikhi is challenging for me

I think the 'Panjabification' happened later. If you look at the original Panj Piaray, they weren't all Panjabis. And I think the culture of Sikhi actually transcends 'race'. 

[PhunkeyPhish]

Yeah, I agree with what you are saying. I guess I misspoke saying non-Punjabi and probably really more as someone who wasn't brought up Sikh that part of it is a little hard for me. Lately I have been regarding myself more as a Vedanta-Nanakpanthi. I feel like it gives me a little more "freedom" which is still necessary for me. 

[harsharan000]

On 11/13/2020 at 2:53 AM, PhunkeyPhish said:

a) I'm relatively new to Sikhi, study/practicing off and on for several years now. I am even newer to Advaita Vedanta, but through the studies of it so far it seems like there are many, many similarities between the two paths. It seems like maybe the biggest difference is the emphasis put on devotion to Waheguru, or Brhaman, or whatever name you want to apply, but the essential teaching and philosophy is pretty similar.

b)What do you guys who probably know way more about Sikhi and maybe Vedanta, as well, think? 

 

Welcome PhunkeyPhish.

a) I would say, many paths have a similar start, but is only the farthest reach which counts. 

For example one goes to a shopping mall, and just imagine, on the first floor only silver is found, on the second floor only gold is found, and on the third floor there are only diamonds, but to reach each floor one has to take an escalator or go by stairs, which is common to start with for going any of the three floors. It all depends what one is looking for, and if one is to pay the price of it

In a similar way, many paths may seem fine and similar, but is by great good fortune(kirpa), one reaches the highest goal.

 

b) As for what I have seen in the teachings of Bhagat Jan, Guru Sahiban and Gurmukhs, the main and essential difference between sikhee and other paths, is that in Sikhee, all and everything revolves around the Guru, without whom, nothing can be acheived.

Then also, there is no need of variety of different spiritual entities which do exist, and for us as sikhs they are very much respected, but not at all sought, for our goal and destiny is only:  Ik Oankar Satnam.

That is it.

For example, in Gurbani it says: 

Bin Satgur kinnay na paayo, bin Satgur kinnay paaya.

This means, without Satguru nobody ever obtained anything(Waheguru Akal Purukh), and without the Satguru nobody ever obtained Him(Waheguru Akal Purukh).

Sikhee means, a path of discipleship, so naturally if there is  disciple, there has to be a Guru, otherwise it is not sikhee, it can be anything but not sikhee as per teachings in the Gurbani.

In other paths howsoever respectable, everything depends on one´s efforts or actions, in Sikhee, one has to surrender oneself to the Guru and depend alone on His grace, for the inner ptah is so narrow and dark, that in reference to that Guru, the second Patshahee Sree Guru Angad Dev Maharaj says: 

ਜੇ ਸਉ ਚੰਦਾ ਉਗਵਹਿ ਸੂਰਜ ਚੜਹਿ ਹਜਾਰ ॥

Jae So Chandhaa Ougavehi Sooraj Charrehi Hajaar ||

If a hundred moons were to rise, and a thousand suns appeared,

 

ਏਤੇ ਚਾਨਣ ਹੋਦਿਆਂ ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਘੋਰ ਅੰਧਾਰ ॥੨॥

Eaethae Chaanan Hodhiaaan Gur Bin Ghor Andhhaar ||2||

Even with such light, there would still be pitch darkness without the Guru. ||2||

He says, that if 100 moons were to arise and shine in he skies, and in addition there were 1000 suns also, yet inspite of that refulgence and brightness, there would be still utter darkness.

 

*Moreover Guru Nanak also emphasizes on the supreme importance and the need of such a Guru, as seen in the following 2 verses.

ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰੂ ਨ ਚੇਤਨੀ ਮਨਿ ਆਪਣੈ ਸੁਚੇਤ ॥

Naanak Guroo N Chaethanee Man Aapanai Suchaeth ||

O Nanak, those who do not think of the Guru, and who think of themselves as clever,
 

ਛੁਟੇ ਤਿਲ ਬੂਆੜ ਜਿਉ ਸੁੰਞੇ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਖੇਤ ॥

Shhuttae Thil Booaarr Jio Sunnjae Andhar Khaeth ||

Shall be left abandoned in the field, like the scattered sesame

 

So you see, it is only by being in the company of Satguru, or call it Shabad Guru, can one reach that abode of eternity and changless Truth of Satnam.

At other place the Bani tells us: Nanak,  Naam  jahaaz hae, jinee cahreeya se utareeya paar.

With this it is telling us, o Nanak, the Nam is the vessel or aircraft, in which whosoever boards on is carried across.

This Naam refered in the Bani is the Shabad Guru also, for by holding on to the pallav of  this Guru, one is ferried across, it does not matter how many thousand other practices one may incurr into, but if one has not got hold of Naam, one is left behind in the painful cycle of births and deaths.

If one goes through the Gurbani with attention, it shows nothing but instructions to love and follow diligently and faithfully the teachings of Guru Sahiban.

Just to summarize in a way Sikhee, it could well be:

Jin Har japeeya se Har hoeeya.

He/She whosoever repeated His holy Name and manifested it within, becomes one with Him without any distinction.

I would suggest you to go to the depths of the utterly sweet and beautiful, uncomparable and unfathoamble Gurbani, and by His grace reach the highest goal.

Stay blessed.

Sat Sree Akal.

[PhunkeyPhish]

Thank you for that in depth reply to my question. I agree with you to a large extent that Sikhi does place a lot of emphasis on the grace of God, although I have come across some schools of modified non-dualism that emphasize this a lot, as well. One question that arises a lot when I read Gurbani is who is the Guru that the Gurus are referencing... I take it to be Waheguru, or God, or whatever name one wants to place on the supreme being, am I correct in that understanding? 

[harsharan000]

20 hours ago, PhunkeyPhish said:

a) Thank you for that in depth reply to my question.

b) I agree with you to a large extent that Sikhi does place a lot of emphasis on the grace of God, although I have come across some schools of modified non-dualism that emphasize this a lot, as well.

c) One question that arises a lot when I read Gurbani is who is the Guru that the Gurus are referencing... I take it to be Waheguru, or God, or whatever name one wants to place on the supreme being, am I correct in that understanding? 

a) You are most welcome. 

b) Everything is possible by His grace alone, without grace absolutely nothing happens, that is also His Hukum, for we are already weak and low with the addition of the heavy load of the karmas being collected and created, since we stepped into the mayavee creation, though we are not aware of this very heavy load, just because we do not see nor perceive the subtle planes, we are more oriented outwards than in going within and see the reality and facts of the subtle and spiritual realms.

c) About the question which arises in your mind when reading Gurbani, it clearly refers to His manifestaions at our human level, like Guru Sahiban, Bhagat Jan, Sant Jan, who come only to awaken us to the awareness of that primal and eternal changless Truth of Sat-Nam, which we also call it Shabad, Anhad Bani, Sachee Bani, Waheguru, or commonly God, or the Word in chiristianism,  and though there are countless such names, but all these refer to that Highest level of consciousness, or that Creative Power, which has created all that exists, whether seen or unseen by us, creations upon creations .... which are as just infinite, such is His greatness....beyond any words, beyond any imagination, which even the gods and devtays(spiritual entities) know anything about Him.

And they awaken us to that awareness, for the only purpose of our reunificatio with Him, but alas such a pity,almost nobody pays attention to what they tell us to do through the Bani. 

This very same universal message is now being carried forward by Sree Guru Granth Sahib Jee for the present and future genertions of mankind, irrespective of creed, caste and genders .

Yet in spite of that we prefer to do many other things taking them to be equivalent or substitutes, but nevertheless it is so.

It is like let us say, for example we have a recipe book ... it does not matter how many hours and times one keeps reading the recipe... the hunger will not go away, unless one gets those ingredients and cook them as instructed.

I was just thinking how to answer you, but thankfully got in mind the following Shabad from Guru Jee, where He clearly at least from my point of view, answers, not only the question you asked above, but much much more, where doubts just get melted away, for it is not any man made wisdom, but direct instruction from He Himself in the human form of Guru Sahiban.

 

Please go through it slowly an carefully, for it contains the amazing revelations of pure spirituality, try to sip and savour each and every shabad in the following verses, which are full of Amrit:

 

ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥

Sireeraag Mehalaa 5 ||

Siree Raag, Fifth Mehl:

ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ (ਮਃ ੫) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਅੰਗ ੪੪

ਸਭੇ ਥੋਕ ਪਰਾਪਤੇ ਜੇ ਆਵੈ ਇਕੁ ਹਥਿ ॥

Sabhae Thhok Paraapathae Jae Aavai Eik Hathh ||

All things are received if the One is obtained.

 

ਜਨਮੁ ਪਦਾਰਥੁ ਸਫਲੁ ਹੈ ਜੇ ਸਚਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਕਥਿ ॥

Janam Padhaarathh Safal Hai Jae Sachaa Sabadh Kathh ||

The precious gift of this human life becomes fruitful when one chants the True Word of the Shabad.

 

ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਮਹਲੁ ਪਰਾਪਤੇ ਜਿਸੁ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਹੋਵੈ ਮਥਿ ॥੧॥

Gur Thae Mehal Paraapathae Jis Likhiaa Hovai Mathh ||1||

One who has such destiny written on his forehead enters the Mansion of the Lord's Presence, through the Guru. ||1||

 

ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਏਕਸ ਸਿਉ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਇ ॥

Maerae Man Eaekas Sio Chith Laae ||

O my mind, focus your consciousness on the One.

 

ਏਕਸ ਬਿਨੁ ਸਭ ਧੰਧੁ ਹੈ ਸਭ ਮਿਥਿਆ ਮੋਹੁ ਮਾਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

Eaekas Bin Sabh Dhhandhh Hai Sabh Mithhiaa Mohu Maae ||1|| Rehaao ||

Without the One, all entanglements are worthless; emotional attachment to Maya is totally false. ||1||Pause||

 

ਲਖ ਖੁਸੀਆ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹੀਆ ਜੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰੇਇ ॥

Lakh Khuseeaa Paathisaaheeaa Jae Sathigur Nadhar Karaee ||

Hundreds of thousands of princely pleasures are enjoyed, if the True Guru bestows His Glance of Grace.

 

ਨਿਮਖ ਏਕ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਦੇਇ ਮੇਰਾ ਮਨੁ ਤਨੁ ਸੀਤਲੁ ਹੋਇ ॥

Nimakh Eaek Har Naam Dhaee Maeraa Man Than Seethal Hoe ||

If He bestows the Name of the Lord, for even a moment, my mind and body are cooled and soothed.

 

ਜਿਸ ਕਉ ਪੂਰਬਿ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਤਿਨਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਚਰਨ ਗਹੇ ॥੨॥

Jis Ko Poorab Likhiaa Thin Sathigur Charan Gehae ||2||

Those who have such pre-ordained destiny hold tight to the Feet of the True Guru. ||2||

 

ਸਫਲ ਮੂਰਤੁ ਸਫਲਾ ਘੜੀ ਜਿਤੁ ਸਚੇ ਨਾਲਿ ਪਿਆਰੁ ॥

Safal Moorath Safalaa Gharree Jith Sachae Naal Piaar ||

Fruitful is that moment, and fruitful is that time, when one is in love with the True Lord.

 

ਦੂਖੁ ਸੰਤਾਪੁ ਨ ਲਗਈ ਜਿਸੁ ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਧਾਰੁ ॥

Dhookh Santhaap N Lagee Jis Har Kaa Naam Adhhaar ||

Suffering and sorrow do not touch those who have the Support of the Name of the Lord.

 

ਬਾਹ ਪਕੜਿ ਗੁਰਿ ਕਾਢਿਆ ਸੋਈ ਉਤਰਿਆ ਪਾਰਿ ॥੩॥

Baah Pakarr Gur Kaadtiaa Soee Outhariaa Paar ||3||

Grasping him by the arm, the Guru lifts them up and out, and carries them across to the other side. ||3||

 

ਢੋਈ ਤਿਸ ਹੀ ਨੋ ਮਿਲੈ ਜਿਨਿ ਪੂਰਾ ਗੁਰੂ ਲਭਾ ॥

Dtoee This Hee No Milai Jin Pooraa Guroo Labhaa ||

He alone finds shelter, who has met the Perfect Guru.

 

ਥਾਨੁ ਸੁਹਾਵਾ ਪਵਿਤੁ ਹੈ ਜਿਥੈ ਸੰਤ ਸਭਾ ॥

Thhaan Suhaavaa Pavith Hai Jithhai Santh Sabhaa ||

Embellished and immaculate is that place where the Saints gather together.

 

ਨਾਨਕ ਬਧਾ ਘਰੁ ਤਹਾਂ ਜਿਥੈ ਮਿਰਤੁ ਨ ਜਨਮੁ ਜਰਾ ॥੪॥੬॥੭੬॥

Naanak Badhhaa Ghar Thehaan Jithhai Mirath N Janam Jaraa ||4||6||76||

Nanak builds his house upon that site where there is no death, no birth, and no old age. ||4||6||76||

 

 

 

*Just a humble request: please go through ths particular shabad  as many times as needed, try to see the depth in these verses fom different angles,  until  you get nearest to what Guru Jee is trying to convey us in them.

Try to digest the pure wisdom and Truth in them, then, if still you have any questions, you are most welcome, myself or any membr of this respectable forum will surely try and answer you.

Stay blessed.

SSA.

[harsharan000]

 

Brother,

just see the image below, about the supreme importance of a Guru,  of the level of Guru Sahiban, or the Bhagat Jan mentioned in the Gurbani, who while being at our human level in the gross creation, are very much one with that One, namely Waheguru Akal Purukh.

Their physical body is just a covering, a means, to awaken us to that awareness of their true essence or nature, which is of  them being Shabad Guru.

Neither the physical body is the disciple or sikh, nor the physical body of Guru Sahiban is their real form, for both will one day have to leave their outer coverings. 

True spiritual form never changes, nor diminishes nor grows, neitehr passes away, the bodies are just a consequence made out of the 5 perishable tattwas, so you see the bodies as we tend to believe generally, are not the true nature or essence for they perish away in due time.

It is the soul which is the true disciple, and it is the Shabad Guru who is the True Guru within, where He protects and guides the soul with His finer qualities such as Jot, Dhun, kirpa and  pyaar, finally to the realm of highest and eternal Truth/Satnam, in Sach Khand.

 

 

Gurbani is nothing, but a sweet song of  the beant wadeeayee of Guru Jee and Waheguru Akal Purukh.

Stay blessed.

SSA.