Validity of our Rehat

[Dhoor721]

Obviously, Sikhs have been keeping hair, wearing turbans, kirpans, karas, etc. for hundreds of years. But how do we know that?

We've all been taught Sakhis about Gurus and the story of Vaisakhi in 1699 when Guru Gobind Singh Ji asked for 5 heads. But how do we know all of this actually happened? After all, it's obviously not written in SGGS, and who knows if Indian govt tampered with any historical documentation? How do we know we're supposed to keep hair, wear turbans, etc? Obviously, people might point to SGPC Rehat Maryada, but where does that come from? Also, I don't believe it mentions the wearing of turbans, and after reading how French Sikhs claim that turban is only cultural, I was thinking...How do we know it is MORE than cultural? Where is it written that we should even wear one?

Obviously, one reason why Dasam Granth is not fully accepted is because we are not sure of its validity. How are we sure about these other ideas? In SGGS, it doesn't mention about a lot of Sikh rehat...instead we find this in Rehat Maryada...but again, how do we know it's true?

I don't write this to say that we are wrong in our practices, but instead I want to understand the history behind it and how we're sure we're right.

Bhul Chukk Maaf

[Guest]

Good question. I asked this question long time back from one of my uncle. Now my uncle is straight forward and he asked me so many questions and while thinking about giving him anwser I found my anwser. Here I post his questions and see if it helps.

1. Did you ask why your dad was your dad?

2. Why don't you walk naked? Where does it say you can't?

3. Why wear clothes ? where does it say that one has to wear clothes?

4. Why can't you have sex with your own sister? Where does it say you can't?

Now the anwser was that everything I accepted because my elders told me and it was my faith in them which convinced me. Now as far as Sikhism goes we have so many historical texts available not just a oral tradition which was valid tradition in old days as it was not a common practice to write down everything. We have manuscripts written by Gurus himself. We have hukumnams written by Gurus and history by contemporary sikhs of Gurus times.

If you really want to get the truth by yourself then you have to read all those historical books and that's how you can get the valid anwser if you are confuse about it. But all the researches are done and it's so easy for you to learn from those researches.

Obviously, one reason why Dasam Granth is not fully accepted is because we are not sure of its validity.

Now you have said that Sri Dasam Granth is not accepted because we are not sure of its validity. May I know the source of your information which made you so sure that we are not sure of it's validity? How come you can say this if you have not even read it? Are you familiar with the language which is used in Sri Dasam Granth? If your anwser is no then you first need to learn and then read and then say we are not sure about it's validity.

How are we sure about these other ideas? In SGGS, it doesn't mention about a lot of Sikh rehat...instead we find this in Rehat Maryada...but again, how do we know it's true?

Guru Granth Sahib's message is spritual and we don't follow it as a book. We don't have manus laws and we don't belong to religion where sharia laws are way of life. You need to be aware of this that Rehat comes from Gurus life. How much you have read or you know about them? If you say you have read one sakhi that doesn't prove anything because if you really want to read about them then you have to order all of our historical texts and read them to know how Gurus have lived their life. Now after that live your life as Guru had lived because ultimately you call them your Guru and yourself student.

Please, write down how you are learning about Sikhism. Please write down you study material which your have used so far.

[Guest]

Ive sort of been tinking bout da same tink about da turbans and being culture rather than religion. But have a turban is a good way of keeping our Kesh Tidy.

But in da Ardas its says Sikhi dan, kesh dan....

But den again da Ardas is different for namdheris. Wots not 2 say dat da orginal, orginal ardas has gone, which would be really sad.

I some how I believe we're locked in somekind of system of control? I kno it sounds like da Matrix. I believe its better reading from Guru Ji, at least we can find truth der. We even got Guru Ji on da Internet . Guru Ji says so many times recite Naam, Naam is our boat, dis boat will flow easily through Maya, wid Naam we can wash our souls of maal. Guru Nanak Dev Ji once said reciting Naam is da best religion. Dis is why i tink Namdheris do it soo much, why cant we? Ders nothing stopping us, ders nothing stopping us from wearing Blue Grams, ders nothing stopping us from wearing white turbans, ders nothing stopping us from wearing dem together, but colour is meaningless, Hindus beleive dat by wearing Orange Grams dey can filter out sins but i believe its da colour of our soul which really counts.

Does ne 1 really kno where da Ardas is written from or even which Granth?

[Mugermach Singh]

The truth remains the truth in all cases, those that seek the truth will surely one day find it.

But in the mean time, kaal has it ways of stoping you, One which is doubt!! for example, people cant critise bani directly, instead they use the notion of doubt, is it bani, or isnt it?? etc. this make u wonder about if it is or isnt instead of trying to get the concept of what Guru Sahib is tring to say.

the main point that im saying is, absorb everything knowlegde wise thrown at you, try to understand it, if its beyond you, move on, and hopefully one day you may get, then using this knowledge you've acquired, You make up Your mind, and live by it. Gurbani is def a good base to start, its from the source, you cant get better then that. If you doubt that..... up to you, but 'Dhurki Bani Aye', either u belive it or dont, but if you dont, dont reject it straight away, absorb all the knowledge u need to make up ur mind first, and if your still not satisfied, ah well.

[Noor]

I believe in the Granth Sahib.. but the Rehats dont settle too well with me.

I'd rather follow the teachings of the Granth ji than the rehats.

On Sikhi2theMax.. the rehats dont even go with the quote they present from the Granth Sahib.

[Guest]

As i said earlier in another post. I ll say it again!!

i agree with the point we need to focus more on our siri guroo granth sahib than rehat maryadas/rehat namas. Because most important thing which is love(biraag) towards vaheguroo... you can only get it from guroo maharaji's bani which is dhoor ki bani aie then there would no question of following rehat maryada or not then. Everything will be straight forward and we can easily follow rehat maryada... and off course that state of mind will come in time!!!!!!!!!!!

Akaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal hiii akaaaaaaaal

anand hiii anand

[Niranjana]

Rehit = code or pratice?

Maryada would appear to be composed of

Mar = Death

Yada = To remember

From this one can derive their own understanding and then put into "context" why certain Maryadas exist and for what purpose and to what extent they are to be invoked in certain situations.

As per the turbans:-

Gangan Mandal mai Boonga Haamara

Mahakaal Rakvara Hai!!!

[Masti]

Gets Better !

Everything that we VISUAL OBSERVE with our EYES is MATERIAL and EVERYTHING MATERIAL will remain here on Earth and decay to Dust. I dont think An Eternal God is really interested in what is MATERIAL, that's just DUST, ain't it ?

So what you wear, what you smelt like, what tribe you from, what your hair looked like, did you get plastic surgery, what you observed in ritual, what you cut, where you went naked, who you procreated with to make another body, what castes, what, colour, what shape, what size and all the other things from the MATERIAL will all end up as DUST and NOTHING MATERIAL will go with us to the Next World, from this World, will It ?

Waste of Time question this.............!

[Guest]

So what you wear, what you smelt like, what tribe you from, what your hair looked like, did you get plastic surgery, what you observed in ritual, what you cut, where you went naked, who you procreated with to make another body, what castes, what, colour, what shape, what size and all the other things from the MATERIAL will all end up as DUST and NOTHING MATERIAL will go with us to the Next World, from this World, will It ?

Agree but remember we are set to follow certain principles.. There are principles in every dharma not you to make miserable but to help you.

Thus, Rehat Maryada helps an individual to maintain their tasks and its a given by guroo maharaj to live in prinicples(rehat).

Live and die by principles

whether we like it or not.. Cuttin kesh, Sleeping with other women/men, intoxicants (ie- smoke, drink), eating hallal-meat is bujjar kurahit (sin) for us sikhs!!!!!!!!!

Because our Guroo maharaj said so!!!!!!!

If master has said it, it is better for us (Because guroo neh hii sikhi bakshiiii haie)

End of story!!!!!!!!!

[Masti]

Disagree With You Again....!!

There are two types of Children, one who listen to their Parents and Do what Their Parents tell them and their are others, no matter how many times you tell them they dont DO what You tell them to do.

Are you saying that those children who do as they are told to do by their parents (I'm sure you are one yourself) ARE LOVED MORE THAN THOSE who dont do what they are told to do by their parents ?

Sounds like you believe in a GOD who may be PREJUDICED ?

Think Again.........! ARE YOU OR ME ANY LESS SINNERS THAN SOMEONE ELSE IN THIS WORLD, ALL BECAUSE WE HAVE PRINCIPLES ?

[nirgun]

i agree with n3o

[Jamuka]

1. Did you ask why your dad was your dad?

2. Why don't you walk naked? Where does it say you can't?

3. Why wear clothes ? where does it say that one has to wear clothes?

4. Why can't you have sex with your own sister? Where does it say you can't?

1.I was told by my mother and the rest of my family from a tender age my father is really who he claims to be. Also he provides for me day in and day out. If there is still any suspicion on my part, I can undergo a DNA test. FYI there are many children out there who are told lies about the truth of their parentage because of various reasons ie;adoption,fidelity,...If they were to follow your advise, would they ever know the truth?

2. I don't walk naked as the human body makeup is not the same as animals. We woudn't survive for long without the protection of clothes. Also I have been conditioned from a young age to believe it is shameful to parade myself naked.

3. Same answer as in 2. BTW are you aware of nudist colonies?

4. I don't have sex with my own sister as I have been conditioned from a tender age by my community and the world at large that such an act is dispicable. I have also been taught in schools that the offsprings of such communions produce retarded offsprings.

BTW there ARE cultures out there which condones such acts and don't see anything wrong with it. Heck even the British royal families were known to do that. Did you know that for a very long time the Eskimos/Inuits upheld a culture that if you were to visit them, you had to have sex with their wives? If you didn't, you would be considered arrogant. What have you to say to that?

Now the anwser was that everything I accepted because my elders told me and it was my faith in them which convinced me.

Wrong, we have not asked these questions because we already know the answers to them. If the world were to take your stance when it comes to questions, we would still be living in the stone age.

Sikhism was BORNE out of questioning. It began with Guru Nanak questioning accepted beliefs at the time. Guru Nanak questioned the validity to the threading ceremony he had to undergo when he was young. He questioned the Brahmin practise of throwing water toward the sun in the hopes of it reaching their ancestors in Heaven. He questioned Muslim belief of not pointing their feet toward the Kaaba. Can you imgine if the answers to Guru Nanaks questions would have been similar to the ones you provided and with Guru Nanak being satisfied with it? There would be no Sikhism today! You and me my friend would probably be in some Hindu temple 'throwing' water to our ancestors in heaven!

My understanding to Sikhism may not be as much compared to many of the readers here however I think I do know the gist of it. I can't help but believe that many Sikhs today are changing the original version of Sikhism to a somewhat different type of Sikhism, the type no questions are to be asked and everything should be trusted on blind faith. It feels like Sikhism is undergoing a metamophorsis, from a religion that began with questioning to the 'talibinization' of Sikhism, making it similar to Islam and Hinduism.

Are you saying that those children who do as they are told to do by their parents (I'm sure you are one yourself) ARE LOVED MORE THAN THOSE who dont do what they are told to do by their parents ?

What type of child do you think Guru Nanak was?

[Noor]

Right on Jamuka

can I ask why do u have a warning?

[Guest]

Noor,

Because he made stupid jokes on sardars under joke section.

Its just ridicolous.

[Jamuka]

can I ask why do u have a warning?

I posted a couple of Santa/Banta jokes in the jokes folder and our moderator believes they constitute racism or have racist tendencies.

I have started a thread at http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...opic.php?t=3774 to see what everybodys opinion here is on Santa/Banta jokes.

I dunno but I don't find them racist and mind you my grandfathers name was Banta Singh.

[Khalistani Singh]

LOL, all of you guys make me laugh. SIKHI is the most practical, logical, religion. SIKHI is a way of life, the way a person shall live, its such a simple religion yet we make it so complex?

When I was growing up, I had my haircut, so did my parents, etc, but I was always raised in an environment that in which I was taught cutting your hair is bad, and is not acceptable. Now we can keep justifying that "cutting your hair" doesn't matter as long as you have a "good heart," etc blah blah blah...But lemme suggest one thing, a TRUE SIKH will learn and never cut their hair.

I personally began to keep my hair, last year. And what is the purpose? Keeping our hair, reminds us, everyday while tying our dastaar who we are, that we should always do good, n etc. Doing paht 3 times a day, brings us shanti, and we always live on the principles of guruji. Now, I'm not amritdhari, but I do see sense in the guruji's teachings.

Back during the moghul rule, Aurganzeb use to ask for his muslims to bring back KESH of SIKHS. Why do we tie paghs? Cause guruji from the beginning has said, the pagh is a crown. I think it would look quite stupid for a sikh to tie a joora, and walk around. That it is where the cultural thing comes in. That we have TO TIE A RESPECTFUL DASTAAR to keep our kesh nice and clean. The KESH is sacred, but we can almost tie anything to cover it.

Do you know that the SGGS doesn't mention anywhere to keep our hair? I have questioned everything in sikhism, and from my questioning I haven't even found one fault in Sikhism. I do not follow the faith blindly, we shouldn't debate on stupid matters of kesh, cause we all know what the truth is, we can make as many excuses we want.

But the thing that bothered me most was, is there really a God that controlled everything. I wanted immediate answers, but after a few months I read an amazing quote in the SGGS:

"The Lord Himself dwells within the body; He is invisible and cannot be seen.

The foolish self-willed manmukh does not understand; he goes out searching for the Lord externally.

One who serves the True Guru is always at peace; the True Guru has shown me the Invisible Lord."

From my personal belief in God, I think God is something that lies within us, like a 6th sense, or our good intuition. When we start doing bad things, we lose our guilty concious.

The whole point of following rehat is to keep disicipline and to have order. For some it may have different meanings. However, if you are a seeker of the truth, you will one day eventually find out the meaning and the power of our guruji'z.

I know there are some bad amritdharis, etc, and there are good sehajdharis, but no matter what, you shouldn't let the bad amritdharis justify yourself as a sehajdhari. A true GURU KA SIKH, will always follow the truthful path and make no excuses.

Guruji gave us gifts of loves, these are just not mere symbols we wear. I strongly suggest for any of you to read this article, you'll gain lots of knowledge.

The turban is the Sikh's nishani, it wil always be, you can spot out a Sikh anywhere thats the beauty of it. It is universal brotherhood, when you see another Sikh you always feel comfortable and say Sat Sri Akal.

Remeber Sikhi is so simple, yet we make it so complex. The whole point of Sikhi is to be a pure, kind-hearted, lioving person and help out others.

(Not exactly, but ya know)

Well here read this article, http://khalsapride.com/ChickenSoup/8.htm

and hope ya find some sense.

WJKK WJKF

[Noor]

N30 S!NGH - oh acha

I posted a couple of Santa/Banta jokes in the jokes folder and our moderator believes they constitute racism or have racist tendencies.

I have started a thread at http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...opic.php?t=3774 to see what everybodys opinion here is on Santa/Banta jokes.

I dunno but I don't find them racist and mind you my grandfathers name was Banta Singh.

lol.. i see.. Santa/Banta jokes.. are they the ones bout sardars?

Those sardar jokes are a little too overdone.. I mean no one is as dumb as the sardar jokes imply....

sorry for goin off topic.. I'll go post in that topic :arrow:

[sikh_fauge]

The rehit we have today is as vaild as dasam granth.

The dasam granth was compiled AFTER guru gobind singh jis physical parting with the world; in the same way the rehit was compiled by the panth after he left this material dimension.

Dasam granth IS bani; also rehit IS valid and in tune with gurus teachings. If we reject the rehit; then we reject gurbani i.e dasam granth (which we read on a daily basis.)

As the panth, guru ji gave us the power to make collective decisions; if the panth DID make the rehit, it would have been according to gurus teachings, after all they were in his company almost 24/7.

In addition, bhai gurdas ji (a comtemporary of guru gobind singh ji and a close companion) wrote many poems on sikhi (which were accepted by the guru);

'sikh ni pyara guru-a no, rehit payari'- its the rehit the guru loves and beholds, not the person (because this rehit is what moulds this person into khalsa; this is further emphasized in dasam granth, where guru ji writes a small stanza on the khalsa, and how he owes ALL to the khalsa.)

Rehit is required in this day and age; it serves as a tool..much like the pan kakkar guru ji gave us. Use it wisely; let it better u as a person. If u dnt reap the benefits of rehit, then ditch it and follow ur own path (or find an alternative)

Forgive me for any mistakes i have made.

Waheguru

[sukhsingh]

Also, I don't believe it (SGGS) mentions the wearing of turbans, and after reading how French Sikhs claim that turban is only cultural,

accualty, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee does tell us to wear dastaars. Also, in the 52 bachaans, (which can be found on this site), it says never to leave your hair uncovered, and wear a dastaar.

vjkkvjkf

[Jamuka]

accualty, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee does tell us to wear dastaars. Also, in the 52 bachaans, (which can be found on this site), it says never to leave your hair uncovered, and wear a dastaar.

Really? Can you please provide the exact quatation from the SGGS?

[Mr §ingh]

Isn't one of the 52 HUakms by GUru GObind Singh jee nuff?

ps

make a search

[Niranjana]

Gur Fateh!

Mr Singh and Sukh Singh, I have to agree with Jamuka sahib here, the Sri Guru has no explicit reference to wearing Dastaars as concerns the Rehit for Sikhs, if you are making reference to the "Sarbat Soora Dastaar Sira" shabd that the likes of certain self-proclaimed followers of "Tat-Gurmat-Maryada" love to misquote and misinterpret, I would recommend you re-read the shabd in its entirity and understand the context in which it is written.

As per the 52 Hukams of Guru Sahib, these are interesting material, however they are always cited without any reference as to where they came from, when and how. All I have tended to see is most references pointing towards Sikh Virsa Magazine. I am not sheding doubt upon these Bachans, however it is notable that not all of them are even found in many practices, for this reason I would like to look into these further from an academic perspective, so if anyone does have references, please do let me know -shall be most grateful.

Gur Fateh!

[Mr §ingh]

Gur Fateh!

Mr Singh and Sukh Singh, I have to agree with Jamuka sahib here, the Sri Guru has no explicit reference to wearing Dastaars as concerns the Rehit for Sikhs, if you are making reference to the "Sarbat Soora Dastaar Sira" shabd that the likes of certain self-proclaimed followers of "Tat-Gurmat-Maryada" love to misquote and misinterpret, I would recommend you re-read the shabd in its entirity and understand the context in which it is written.

Thats Why I didn't meantion Guru jee, as I know its not meantioned in Maharaj

As per the 52 Hukams of Guru Sahib, these are interesting material, however they are always cited without any reference as to where they came from, when and how. All I have tended to see is most references pointing towards Sikh Virsa Magazine. I am not sheding doubt upon these Bachans, however it is notable that not all of them are even found in many practices, for this reason I would like to look into these further from an academic perspective, so if anyone does have references, please do let me know -shall be most grateful.

Gur Fateh!

For me its enought what Panj tell me (When they tell me)

and for me thats Gurus bachan

Regarding Sabat Sorrat Dastaar Sira,

as you meantioned- thats Why I didn't meantion Maharaj jees Bir, But I meantioned on another place Where Guru jee tells us

bhull chukk maaf

GUrFAteh

[Niranjana]

Mr Singh,

Thanks for your polite response, I hear what you're saying regarding the Punj and during one's Amrit Sanchar, however, and this I admit will be controversial, we do know that what is told during our individual Amrit Sanchars does not tally with all authenticated accounts, without getting into any groupings, I shall relay from my own experience.

I was instructed that Mool Mantr stops at Gur Parshad and that one recites only 3 Banis in the morning (i.e. not Chaupai Sahib and Full Anand Sahib), at the same time, I was told to wear a proper shaster, ensure I kept a full length shaster at home and trained with and no mention was made of wearing a Keski as a Kakkar.

Now, without getting into Politics, just consider the points on the Banis and Mool Mantr and you can see where issues arise I trust...

[Mr §ingh]

so true,

Sikhs have been so 'catagorized', and can't get along with themselvs

thanks for your polite response