A.S.KANG Posted April 23, 2004 Report Share Posted April 23, 2004 OK this is a topic which ppl might not like. but i really need some views and stuff.... i know many bibiya - (LOTS!! LOL) that are into sikhi. but refrain from taking amrit because of this issue. The is the issue to do with facial hair... i can totally see where they come from. i wouldnt want my wife to look like a bunda!!! our kesh and dara (men ) is partly to do with our identity and the way we look? not just to do with spirituality... we can be spiritual without kesh (i know of many hindus muslims etc.... who all cut hair and stuff) sorry if ive offended anyone, but i really think this is an important issue - because its this type of stuff that makes our sisters look away from our wonderful dharam. also - some ppl have got the idea that if you baptised - you cant wear make up - or look beautiful!?!?!?! where on earth does that come from. - why do we call them princesses for that matter???? i need some feedback for this topic- especially from any sisters out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sikh_fauge Posted April 23, 2004 Report Share Posted April 23, 2004 Good points, but calling our sisters bunde isnt very nice. How would singhs feel if our bibiya called us gorillas or hairy monkeys,etc. But i do agree with ur points, once again as kang, u smashed it (n that!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ideal Singh Posted April 23, 2004 Report Share Posted April 23, 2004 Dont you think being natural is beautiful...? Only people with inferiority complexes need to "make themselves up" infront of others... its all about our mindsets, self pride... being natural is beautiful... A humble thought... and ofcourse Kudiyaan would elaborate more in this fourm. Chardee Kalaa... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sikh_fauge Posted April 23, 2004 Report Share Posted April 23, 2004 P.S i think the kesh is more than identity,personally. Just like a kirpan or sword is more than a peice of metal for protection; its so much more deeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sehjo Kaur Posted April 23, 2004 Report Share Posted April 23, 2004 Keeping Kesh is above all a Hukam. I have facial hair because I stopped removing it so I guess you were referring to me when you said 'banda'. But it's cool, cos to commit to something you have to sacrifice something, especially when its a valuable gift like Amrit. My sister doesn't take Amrit because of not being able to keep hair. I often wonder why people don't remember the Singhs who gladly allowed their scalps to be removed, but not their Kesh. As for makeup, well to enhance your beauty, physical beauty, knowing it's transient is done by those who believe they will live for ever and have plenty of time to spare to do Naam Kamai. I just think if Singhs stop accepting and supporting girls who stop removing hair, and call them names, then it keeps them away from Sikhi even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.S.KANG Posted April 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2004 sehjo kaur i apologize for causing offence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tejvir Kaur Posted April 24, 2004 Report Share Posted April 24, 2004 I agree with you sis..... I mean the whole reason girls stress about looking good, like wearing make up, short skirts, shaving, all this facial stuff, etc. is for men to look at them, and to be impressed, and i'm not against all the Singhs, but hello? where have you been can't you figure this out, i mean complement a girl once and a while, talk nice with them, don't me making fun, we girls get a lot a pressure and stress like this, and then they go to the extreme and get really sick like becoming anerexic, cuz a boy calls them fat.... anyway girls keeping facial hair shouldn't be a problem and well if you choose to remove its ok tooo, at least thats what i believe, I mean if you don't like it don't do ti, don't do something because they told you too..... my sis took amrit, and it inspires me to also take amrit one day, but when i'm ready like i said before, its all about who you are and who you want to become, not what someone else wants to be or become.... ALL THE SIKH GIRLS OUT THERE YOU ARE ALL BEAUTIFUL...IN EVERY SINGLE WAY....NO MATTER WHAT.....ok especially if you keep your hair...not to discriminate....lol... sorry if i said something wrong....i'm just a bholi kuri.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsb Posted April 24, 2004 Report Share Posted April 24, 2004 tejvir kaur you touched on something that may be unique.... alot of us take hukam for granted (and this isn't in any way intended to come off as offensive, that's not my intention at ALL, so if it does, pleaase forgive me)... but you're making the point about how many teenagers, girls especially are under the pressure from society... this is most definitely not support for cutting hair at ALLLLLLL, but that's a very interesting point.. and i know the answer from a large majority is just going to be "if you've got guru, you don't need society" and to an extent you're right... but acceptance in society is veryy important.. we are told, as hukam, to essentially be good members of society... acceptance in society may be a prerequisite for this... again, this is really blowing it out of proportion, cuz there are many who do keep full kesh rehit and are still very accepted and contributive to society.. but tejvir made a good point about the fact that teenaged girls may not be thinking "Guru" as much as we think... and that's natural.... societal pressures impact EVERYONE.. no Singh can tell me they didn't feel hurt in kindergarten when they got teased everyday about "That Ball On Your Head"..... it's a good point.. nsomething to discuss forsure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lil_princess Posted April 24, 2004 Report Share Posted April 24, 2004 this is a good topic of discussion!!! todays modern society outside of sikhi is against any hair at all... its like this huge massive hairless ape trying to tease us into conforming to wax, pluck, shave, zap the follicles of our naturalness (man that sounds so hippy) many of my non-sikhi friends find hair repulsive and gross... i mean they can't STAND guyz who have hairy legs... and im thinking what is up with these people... they find guyz that have a hormonal disfunction attractive?! i told them they were on some cheap masala..then relised its probably the 'black pepper corn' they were using.... the truth of the matter is if u want to be a hard'kaur' sikh one should accept the fact that there is hair... and yes people are goin to stare at u.. i mean depending on ur genes and background some youth tend to have hair when they are very little and realised around grade 7 and 8 that shorts were not a very sociable thing to wear anymore.... (if ur a girl of course) i think this is a personal issue and how strong ur heart is in sikhi and how strong u can take society..... --keep on smiling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 24, 2004 Report Share Posted April 24, 2004 we girls get a lot a pressure and stress like this, and then they go to the extreme and get really sick like becoming anerexic, cuz a boy calls them fat.... Actually, Girls dont get much pressure at all in terms of looks, SIkh guys have to deal with the looking different issue from childhood till forever. If outsiders werent enough, you have some of our own sikh girls saying they dont want to marry a singh. So Sikh guys get more pressure than girls, parents dont put pressure on girls cos they think that if their kuri doesnt look like ur typical barbie doll, then she is never gonna get married. I think, changing ur appearance just to please some guy or girl is wrong as the other person should accept you for what u are, not what they want u to be. anyway girls keeping facial hair shouldn't be a problem and well if you choose to remove its ok tooo, at least thats what i believe, I mean if you don't like it don't do ti, don't do something because they told you too..... That has become a norm in sikh society. Choosing to remove hair isnt ok, if u cut ur hair then you are not a sikh. "Rehat bina na sikh akhave" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowest of the low singhni Posted April 24, 2004 Report Share Posted April 24, 2004 vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh Guru Sahib has made each one of us the way we are. We should be able to accept that - no question about it. It's Guru Sahib's HUKAM... hukam rajaaee chalanaa naanak likhiaa naal = O Nanak, it is written that you shall obey the Hukam of His Command, and walk in the Way of His Will. (japji sahib) We should be happy with the way Guru Sahib has created us and although we make oursleves look neat and smart so to look respectable, we shouldn't be too worried about our physical beauty: maal kai maanai roop kee sobhaa eith bidhhee janam gavaaeiaa = You are wasting this life in the pride of wealth and the splendor of beauty. (siree rag - 24 sggs) In Guru Sahib's Will everyone will settle down to have a husband/wife - until then we should wait, regarding each other as bros/sisters - and when a person does get married, i don't think they should be worrying about their beauty either. Personally i think a singhnee looks beautiful in Guru Sahib's roop, just the way she has been Created, following Guru Sahib's bani. same with a singh. bhul chukh maaf - i'm sorry if i offended anyone, these are just a moorakh's views... ~lowest~ vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted April 24, 2004 Report Share Posted April 24, 2004 Definition of kesh: in Sanskrit: hair on your scalp (and beard for men) In MahanKosh: sir de rom (the hair on your head) Bansavali nama says that you should not insult kesh by calling it bal. Kesh and bal are two different things. In Indian languages there are different words for different types of hair. you take the conclusions yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tejvir Kaur Posted April 24, 2004 Report Share Posted April 24, 2004 Agree with Amardeep Singh jee it is NOT acceptable to remove hair it is NOT acceptable. JSB veer yes U r right no1 can claim they were not hurt! you are right however it needs to be rememberd that we need to keep the Sikhi spirit! I mean Jus look at our Chotey Sahib jade! bhull chukk maaf GurFateh I never said whether it was right or wrong or anything, i was just saying that some people think it is ok which is totally against what i believe in because its our gift from Guru Ji and we should keep it.....no doubt about it keeping your hair is a must...in my opinion.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tejvir Kaur Posted April 24, 2004 Report Share Posted April 24, 2004 ALL THE SIKH GIRLS OUT THERE YOU ARE ALL BEAUTIFUL...IN EVERY SINGLE WAY....NO MATTER WHAT.....ok especially if you keep your hair...not to discriminate....lol... P.S. SEE I TOLD YOU!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tejvir Kaur Posted April 24, 2004 Report Share Posted April 24, 2004 this pressure on the girls thing is not all because of pressure its also becasue there are toooooooooooooo many people who cut there hair so obviously their kids won't either......Texas isn't a place where you find many girls especially with long hair like mine...its just weird cuz me and my sisters are like the only ones who keep all there hair with out trimming and all that stuff....so its not all the pressure.... maybe i should edit my first post, i feel like evryone read it wrong or maybe i exlplained it wrong......hmmmmmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maha_Pavitar Posted April 24, 2004 Report Share Posted April 24, 2004 Doing things to change your apperance for a guy is stupid! It's just not worth it, some guys will think you're beautiful and others won't even look your way..WHY do you need acceptance from guys?? Do what makes you feel beautiful..remember please Guroo Jee, Guroo Jee has no expectations or wants from you..that confidence truly makes you beautiful. When you feel you are 'beautiful'..you become that way, I assure you! P.s./When you do get into a marital relationship, the key is being with someone who finds you beautiful (inside and out) and finds no distinction between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr 5ingh Posted April 24, 2004 Report Share Posted April 24, 2004 I never said whether it was right or wrong or anything, i was just saying that some people think it is ok which is totally against what i believe in because its our gift from Guru Ji and we should keep it.....no doubt about it keeping your hair is a must...in my opinion.... I guess i missunderstood you there then when u said - anyway girls keeping facial hair shouldn't be a problem and well if you choose to remove its ok tooo, at least thats what i believe, I mean if you don't like it don't do ti, don't do something because they told you too..... I guess I missunderstood. As for living in Texas or something - Well trsut me theres many worse places where u can't see a Sikh for several Miles its about Sikhi Sidak being strong bhull chukk maaf GurFateh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamuka Posted April 25, 2004 Report Share Posted April 25, 2004 I hear French menlike their women not to shave their armpit hair, some sort of fetish I hear. But seriously, I think women should rid themselves of any facial and leg hairs. It's gross or maybe Ihave been conditioned to think that way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BabbarSher Posted April 26, 2004 Report Share Posted April 26, 2004 Dear All, It is up to the girl to decide whether she has to remove the hair from her face or not. However for girls I dont think it amounts to apostasy (Please note that this is a personal viewpoint and not a judgement) More often than not, however hair growth on face for girls is because of some minor hormonal fluctuations. It cannot be termed as natural. These fluctuations can be caused due to the environmental factors like Pullutants, pesticides, chemcials etc. The best solution is not waxing, or shaving, rather to go in for the medication and recolve the root cause. More often than not such medication is succefful. Please NOTE, this is a not a disease. If you love someone, the person will always appear beautiful to you, no matter what. Sometimes many of the singhs have a little growth on their faces - because of fungal infection or hormonal disturbance. This may be again corrected or left as it is. Dearth of beard of dense growth doe not make one a sikh. It is submission to the Hukam and one needs to recognise the Hukam, the natural order of the Universe - as given by God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherni-E-Punjab Posted April 26, 2004 Report Share Posted April 26, 2004 LOL Jamuka Trust me its conditioned...on girls to think the way they do Back in the day, they didn't have the cute little Venice Razor Blades..with little pansies or daisies Or Da Diva Waxing Crap or even Nair....and I am sure that wasn't the proper usage of scissors either...and no woman would want to risk it with a blade.. Its just a 19th century fad in relation to the "sexual appealing" Blit.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted April 26, 2004 Report Share Posted April 26, 2004 The real question is: is facial hair on girls kesh? As we have seen before the definition of kesh given by most people is that kesh is the hair on your scalp only (and beard for men) (see my previous post). Facial hair and body hair seems to be a grey zone. Some institutions say it is kesh and some other say it isn't. as no definite answer can be found I think the person should decide for herself. BabbarSher's arguments are very good I must say. A Nirmala Sant told me that in the past women did not have facial hair because there was no pollution but now things are different, of they want to remove it there is no problem as they are not cmmiting any kurahit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noor Posted April 26, 2004 Report Share Posted April 26, 2004 BabbarSher and lalleshvari seem to be right on. From what my grans has told me..for a woman to have a lot of facial hair back in the days was rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tableji Posted April 26, 2004 Report Share Posted April 26, 2004 Actually, Girls dont get much pressure at all in terms of looks, SIkh guys have to deal with the looking different issue from childhood till forever. If outsiders werent enough, you have some of our own sikh girls saying they dont want to marry a singh. So Sikh guys get more pressure than girls, parents dont put pressure on girls cos they think that if their kuri doesnt look like ur typical barbie doll, then she is never gonna get married. I think, changing ur appearance just to please some guy or girl is wrong as the other person should accept you for what u are, not what they want u to be. That has become a norm in sikh society. Choosing to remove hair isnt ok, if u cut ur hair then you are not a sikh. "Rehat bina na sikh akhave" yeah also rehit pyaree mujhko sikh pyara nahin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amrikingh Posted April 26, 2004 Report Share Posted April 26, 2004 if taking facial hair off is for a medical reason then i dont see a problem, if there is one taking it off its just to make you look so called "attractive" people nowwadays how no acceptance the way other peeps are, they just pick and choose what they like "ill have a short skirt and zombie plucking eyebrowed women thankyou" coming right up No offense intended Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BabbarSher Posted April 26, 2004 Report Share Posted April 26, 2004 zombie plucking eyebrowed women thankyou How awful....those pencil thin eyebrows are the biggest turn off. :-) One should remain as natural as possible, but if there i some divergence from the natural state like facial hair for gals..I dont see any probs in taking a bit of medicine to rectify it should the gal feel that way. Then again its the gals decision. She should do it without pressure. Pssst...Please No pencil thin eyebrows and short skirts..... they r awfull.. and lot of macchar (masquito) can bite u if u r in short sikrts and malaria can happen ...lol... and I dont want me gal to be kambing (shivering) all the time ;-)......................am I sick or what !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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