Check out another side of US soldiers in Iraq

[Guest]

Jamuka, great reply, couldn't have done better myself. some people hate for the sake of hating. empty vessels make the most noise!

[Guest]

Guv, I have researched Islam and from your replies on the other threads it seems your knowledge comes from attending islamic awareness weeks..lol. I research the background and not the sugar coated exterior.

[gurdmeister]

This is turning out to be a US versus the rest argument! I have to say that I side with the rest, after reading about the wrong decisions that the US has made Internationally. I just thought I would comment on some of the points made by Jamuka:

FYI over 60 countries in all supported US war in Iraq.

Most of the 60 countries had other motives to support the war on terror:

http://www.fas.org/gulfwar2/at/

http://www.alertnet.org/thefacts/reliefres...08418153847.htm

Look what happened to France who were vilified by the US, when G Bush called them (and Germany who didn't support the war on Iraq) "old Europe". Americans boycotted French Fries, one New York restaurant made some fries and called them Freedom Fries! How childish was that?

This was all because France said they wanted proof that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. I'd like to point you towards Scott Ritters book called the "War on Iraq":

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1...0640978-5425444

Scott Ritter is an ex UN Weapons Inspector. In his book he details how it was not possible for Iraq to be in possession of any chemical, biological or nuclear weapons.

Personally I was opposed to the war on Iraq as I knew thousands of civilians would die and it would become a perfect recruiting ground for terrorist organisations like Al Qaeda.

What a joke' date=' while Iraqi prisoners under Saddams rule was fed alive through plastic shredder machines a few cases of American GI's mistreating POW's and you now believe they are even comparable.[/quote']

Saddams rule was brutal and evil, nobody is questioning this. But the US is trying to win Iraqi hearts and minds. The torturing of Iraqis in Abu Garab and Muslims in Guantanamo Bay does little to show the Iraqis that the US is different! D Rumsfeld even approved the harsh methods used in Guantanamo Bay:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/guantanamo/story...1214715,00.html

This web link is an article written based on a British Muslims accounts of what went on in Guantanamo Bay:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/guantanamo/story...1218012,00.html

Saddam rule was brutal and wrong, but the US should be standing up and saying 'Hey we're better than Saddam!'. With these abuses this is not what the Iraqis will be thinking!

[guv]

[

[guv]

I think what Guv was referring to was probably a report by Amnesty International into human rights abuses.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3749363.stm

actually it was beast, but excellent post!! seems like u've done your research... unlike some! :roll:

[Sukhi]

Please read up on Iraqi history before making ignorant statements. Have you heard of Nuri al Said and the fate of the Iraqi royalty?

one person can never completely be representative of those he has agreed to represent because no one is the same. get it through ur head. everyone has different thoughts and opinions. even if ppl share some common ground with each other, there's always much more differences between them than there are similarities. and for this reason, one person's actions do not represent the thoughts or feelings of an entire nations.

Afghanistan was harbouring Osama Bin Laden who was undeniably the mastermind behind 9/11. The Taliban was given ample time to hand over Osama and the war could have been avoided. Mullah Omar refused and even challenged the US. Tell me hero, what would you have done of you were in Bush's shoes?

if i was in Bush's shoes, i would've tried to find a way to infiltrate Afghanistan and nab the bastard than kill innocent civilians. he could've done that. everyone knows it. but the fact that he didn't is what sucks.

BTW do you know how cruel the Taliban was? Do you know that even Sikhs living Afghanistan were persecuted? Afghanis by and large supported the war which is why the war in Afghanistan was a joint effort between US forces and it's allies and the Northen Alliance. Afghanistan under Hamid Karzais leadership finally has some semblence of a democracy. Do you care or you only show concern when the US is at fault?

yes, i do know how cruel the taliban was. but it doesn't make it right to punish those ppl who were innocent and under similar oppression for the actions of the taliban. but then again, u seem to think it's ok to punish everyone for the actions of a few horrible ppl.

Do you honestly believe the US is even minutely comparable to Saddams regime?

are u trying to say that it's ok for the US to do what they're doing because it isn't as bad as what Saddam did?

Such a warped mind in this day and age is unbelievable. Are you sure you're not residing in a mental asylum?

obviously u have nothing to say to defend ur view. but a suggestion to u would be to refrain from makin personal attacks on ppl when u can't think of nething real to base ur argument on. it's considered a fallacy in philosophy. but i'm sure u already knew that.

[Jamuka]

Most of the 60 countries had other motives to support the war on terror:

Who cares why? The point is that the US was not alone. Many anti war leftist have tried to single out the US making it look like they were all alone.

Look what happened to France who were vilified by the US, when G Bush called them (and Germany who didn't support the war on Iraq) "old Europe". Americans boycotted French Fries, one New York restaurant made some fries and called them Freedom Fries! How childish was that?

No it was not childish. The French are nothing but backstabbers who were againts the war simply because of their secret oil deals with Saddam. Ditto for Germany and Russia. Resolution 1441 clearly states that non compliance constitutes an act of war. The UN inspectors were kept out of Iraq for 11 years and yet the French and the Germans refused to take any action. Their hypocrisy is undeniable.

This was all because France said they wanted proof that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. I'd like to point you towards Scott Ritters book called the "War on Iraq":

Who cares of proof? What was the agreement between the UN and Saddam when Iraqi forces were kicked out of Kuwait? Did they comply? How did the UN react when Iraq did not comply?

Scott Ritter is an ex UN Weapons Inspector. In his book he details how it was not possible for Iraq to be in possession of any chemical, biological or nuclear weapons.

I don't care about Scott Ritter, Micheal Moore, Noam Chomsky, Paul Krugman and the rest of these liberal looneys. I've read their garbage before and see their hypocrisy as clear as daylight. It is sad that you don't.

Personally I was opposed to the war on Iraq as I knew thousands of civilians would die and it would become a perfect recruiting ground for terrorist organisations like Al Qaeda.

You're just saying that now because you can see the outcome. You probably like the rest of the peacnicks simply opposed the war to look fashionable. Havent you heard, it's pretty fashionable these days to simply critisize the US at every turn!

Saddams rule was brutal and evil, nobody is questioning this. But the US is trying to win Iraqi hearts and minds. The torturing of Iraqis in Abu Garab and Muslims in Guantanamo Bay does little to show the Iraqis that the US is different! D Rumsfeld even approved the harsh methods used in Guantanamo Bay:

Do you honestly believe that POW's under the care of the US is even minutely comparable to POW's under Saddams regime? BTW don't bother quoting the Guardian, The Daily Mirror, BBC and all the rest of those biased left media to me. Now I understand why you're so deluded.

Saddam rule was brutal and wrong, but the US should be standing up and saying 'Hey we're better than Saddam!'. With these abuses this is not what the Iraqis will be thinking!

Yes they are better so why are the media and the liberals so biased against the US? Are you trying to imply that having better standards equates being judged differently compared to ruthless regimes? If that is the case, what incentive is there for the US to be better then these regimes? It makes more sense if the US were to mirror these dictators. Will you be this judgemental if it was Russia that invaded Iraq?

I ask you this, when Saddam was busy gassing all those Kurds, where was that famed liberal rage and why had the media not highlighted this? Why did the media not highlight this with the same gusto and zeal as they are when the US is at fault? The very fact that morons out there have the gall to call the US a terror while keeping mum to the atrocities committed by tin pot dictators is proof of this.

If you think that the US is even minutely comparable to Saddams regime, I feel sorry for you for having a very skewed sense of morality.

I think what Guv was referring to was probably a report by Amnesty International into human rights abuses.

Who cares what he meant. That statement is ludicrous to say the least and no matter what you will defend him for saying it for you too are guilty of taking a side.

I know you probably hate Michael Moore (not Moorer!), but you should read his book "Stupid White Men". He's written quite a bit on the Florida elections and how they were won by G Bush. btw his new film Farenheit 9/11, detailing links between the Bin Laden family and the Bush family, won the coveted Palm D'Or prize at the Cannes film festival!

I'm not going to read his garbage. People like him are undeserving of their citizenship. BTW the 'coveted' Palm D'Or prize at the Cannes which if I'm not mistaken is hosted by the French was given to him purely on political reasons and that is a fact. Even terrorists like Arafat has won the 'coveted' Nobel 'Peace' prize and I ain't impressed.

BTW here is a bit about your Michael Moore.

and what a liar he is.

Michael Moore and Me

From the May 31, 2004 issue: An encounter with the Cannes man.

by Fred Barnes

05/31/2004, Volume 009, Issue 36

A FEW YEARS AGO Michael Moore, who's now promoting an anti-President Bush movie entitled Fahrenheit 9/11, announced he'd gotten the goods on me, indeed hung me out to dry on my own words. It was in his first bestselling book, Stupid White Men. Moore wrote he'd once been "forced" to listen to my comments on a TV chat show, The McLaughlin Group. I had whined "on and on about the sorry state of American education," Moore said, and wound up by bellowing: "These kids don't even know what The Iliad and The Odyssey are!"

Moore's interest was piqued, so the next day he said he called me. "Fred," he quoted himself as saying, "tell me what The Iliad and The Odyssey are." I started "hemming and hawing," Moore wrote. And then I said, according to Moore: "Well, they're . . . uh . . . you know . . . uh . . . okay, fine, you got me--I don't know what they're about. Happy now?" He'd smoked me out as a fraud, or maybe worse.

The only problem is none of this is true. It never happened. Moore is a liar. He made it up. It's a fabrication on two levels. One, I've never met Moore or even talked to him on the phone. And, two, I read both The Iliad and The Odyssey in my first year at the University of Virginia. Just for the record, I'd learned what they were about even before college. Like everyone else my age, I got my classical education from the big screen. I saw the Iliad movie called Helen of Troy and while I forget the name of the Odyssey film, I think it starred Kirk Douglas as Odysseus.

So why didn't I scream bloody murder when the book came out in 2001? I didn't learn about the phony anecdote until it was brought to my attention by Alan Wolfe, who was reviewing Moore's book for the New Republic. He asked, by email, if the story were true. I said no, not a word of it, and Wolfe quoted me as saying that. That was enough, I thought. After all, who would take a shrill, lying lefty like Moore seriously?

More people than I thought. Moore's new movie attacking Bush was given a 20-minute standing ovation at the Cannes Film Festival. Moore has described the movie as breaking new ground and revealing new facts, but the accounts by reviewers suggest it merely provides the standard left-wing, conspiratorial critique of the president. Reviewer Lou Lumenick of the New York Post, who gave Moore's previous movie Bowling for Columbine four stars, said the anti-Bush film would be news only "if you spent the last three years hiding in a cave in Afghanistan." Still, I suppose it's not surprising they loved it in France.

In publicizing the movie, Moore has been up to his old dishonest tricks. Just before the screening at Cannes, he charged that Disney had told him "officially" the day before that it would not distribute Fahrenheit 9/11. Moore said this was an attempt to kill the film. He indicated a newspaper article had the correct explanation of Disney's decision: "According to today's New York Times, it might 'endanger' millions of dollars of tax breaks Disney receives from the state of Florida because the film will 'anger' the governor of Florida, Jeb Bush."

Later, in a CNN interview, Moore admitted he'd learned nearly a year ago that Disney would not distribute the movie. By pretending he'd just gotten word of this, Moore was involved in a cheap publicity stunt. And it wasn't the New York Times that said, on its own, that Disney feared losing tax breaks. It was Moore's agent who was quoted as saying that in the Times. Disney denied its president Michael Eisner had told the agent of any such fear. "We informed both the agency that represented the film and all of our companies that we just didn't want to be in the middle of a politically oriented film during an election year," Eisner told ABC News.

Where does this leave us? I think it's time for Moore to be held accountable. In Stupid White Men, he has 18 pages of "Notes and Sources," but he offers no evidence for the sham interview with me--no date, no transcript. How could he, since the interview never happened?

I have just the person to look into Moore's lies and distortions. Al Franken has taken special interest in public liars, writing a bestseller called Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them. Al, the Moore case is now in your court.

Fred Barnes is executive editor of The Weekly Standard.

http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/showthread.php?t=2115

hahahaha!!... jamuka, that is probably the silliest thing u've said so far!! according to your logic, every american who will vote against bush in the next election is anti-american. every american who was against the war on iraq is anti-american. the millions of brits who marched against the war are anti-british (& anti-american!) every democrat in america is anti-american. every conservative & liberal democrat in the uk is anti-british!

An American who hates Bush cannot be dubbed a hater of the US simply because he is an American himself. Comprehende ese?? Do you see the fallacy of your silly argument? If I were to state "I don't hate the Sikhs but I hate Guru Gobind Singh Ji", now would not that statement be contradictory? How can one claim he does not hate Sikhs and yet hate Guru Gobind Singh Ji when he was one of the ten Gurus of Sikhism? Ditto for claiming "I don't hate America but I hate Bush". Hating Bush is equivalent to hating America because at the end of the day, President Gerge W. Bush is a President of the United States of America elected by the people of America.

It is one thing to protest on the streets and show your concern about a war that you do not agree to but, it is quite another when one makes dubious statemenst like "Bush is like Hitler" and "America is a terror state". Try to see the difference. I for one do not believe the Americans will take this nonsense from non Americans anymore. Michael Moore and Noam Chomsky are people of the past, mark my words. In time to come we will be witnessing a new America, one that does not chastise itself in the international arena that are filled by hypocrits and bigots.

i assume jamuka, that u are against the french government's stance on banning religious articles (including turbans)? if so, does that make u anti everything that's french?

Read what I said earlier and see the difference between critisizing a countries policies and making blanket statements like "I hate Chirac".

so in your perfect country, no citizen would ever be against the policies of the government, else they would be traitors!!... hmmm... sounds awfully like saddam's regime in iraq!!!!

You need help.

also j, u haven't countered a SINGLE point made by myself or gurdmeister... & there were quite a few!! perhaps u would care to try?

Same old gibberish lefty drivel that sounds like a broken tape recorder.

then i will show u the flaws in your logic on this thread... in the interests of pursuing truth & becoming better people!!

You woudn't be able to since you yourself are flawed and have no idea what logic is.

u had me rolling around the floor in tears with that comment!!!!!

ever looked in the mirror lately?

I suspect you do that quite a bit, rolling on the floor that is.

one person can never completely be representative of those he has agreed to represent because no one is the same. get it through ur head. everyone has different thoughts and opinions. even if ppl share some common ground with each other, there's always much more differences between them than there are similarities. and for this reason, one person's actions do not represent the thoughts or feelings of an entire nations.

Get this through your head Sukhi, there are no absolutes in this world and yet sometimes there are. There is no one rule to measure everything but yet sometimes there is. You seem to be under the delusion that your preconcieved notion of what is reality is true while what others hold are false without providing any proof to your assertions. I'm sorry but you are wrong to believe that.

if i was in Bush's shoes, i would've tried to find a way to infiltrate Afghanistan and nab the bastard than kill innocent civilians. he could've done that. everyone knows it. but the fact that he didn't is what sucks.

Yes and have endless debates while a menace like OBL is free to strike again. That is exactly what the UN did while millions of Bosnians and Kosovians were being killed. Finally the US had to come in with the help of NATO and not the UN. You seem to exhibit a very biased view towaqrd the US.

yes, i do know how cruel the taliban was. but it doesn't make it right to punish those ppl who were innocent and under similar oppression for the actions of the taliban. but then again, u seem to think it's ok to punish everyone for the actions of a few horrible ppl.

In every war innocent people will get killed but this is not the way to measure if the war was good or bad. When the Gurus opposed Mulim oppression and during the battles that ensued, were there no innocent lives that were killed? Were the Gurus wrong in fighting oppression and waging war aginst tyranny?

are u trying to say that it's ok for the US to do what they're doing because it isn't as bad as what Saddam did?

Answer my question first and stop making assumptions. That is probably why you have a very skewed opinion of the Iraqi war.

obviously u have nothing to say to defend ur view. but a suggestion to u would be to refrain from makin personal attacks on ppl when u can't think of nething real to base ur argument on. it's considered a fallacy in philosophy. but i'm sure u already knew that.

It was not a personal attack. Such remarks are befitting of a lunatic so what I had said was actually made in earnest.

[guv]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! i've got to give it to u jamuka... u are funny!! :lol::lol: ... ever thought about going into stand up comedy??

first of all i'd like to reiterate my previous point. please could u respond to the thread...

btw, i'm not gonna waste my time countering your couple of points, as everytime u start losing an argument u run away!! :twisted: if u would care to respond to jt's questions on this thread (even if it is to admit that u were wrong! :wink:):

http://sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness/vie...t=4314&start=30

then i will show u the flaws in your logic on this thread... in the interests of pursuing truth & becoming better people!!

"I don't hate America but I hate Bush".

It is one thing to protest on the streets and show your concern about a war that you do not agree to but, it is quite another when one makes dubious statemenst like "Bush is like Hitler" and "America is a terror state".

please could u tell me where i have said "I don't hate America but I hate Bush"? or where i have compared bush to hitler? actually i haven't found a post from anyone saying those things at all. i have only mentioned bush's name in response to your comments. i think it's low even for u j to make up quotes to prove yourself right!!!

what i actually said was:

oh & fyi i'm not anti-american (read my posts carefully)... i'm just against america's foreign policy & the way its media (largely republican) misinforms the american people.

& gurdmeister said:

I don't hate America, I hate what the American government is doing around the world!

neither of us said we hate bush or that we hate america. we both do not like it's foreign policies.

Read what I said earlier and see the difference between critisizing a countries policies and making blanket statements like "I hate Chirac".

so we are in agreement?... seeing as noone said they "hate bush", u just made that up!

I don't care about Scott Ritter, Micheal Moore, Noam Chomsky, Paul Krugman and the rest of these liberal looneys. I've read their garbage before and see their hypocrisy as clear as daylight. It is sad that you don't.

...

BTW don't bother quoting the Guardian, The Daily Mirror, BBC and all the rest of those biased left media to me. Now I understand why you're so deluded.

...

I'm not going to read his garbage. People like him are undeserving of their citizenship.

interesting that u think u can dismiss everything these "liberal looneys" say without even reading them!!

in response to your dismissing what 'lefties' have said without even reading what they have written, i'd like to quote what someone said on another thread:

http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...ighlight=#38084

Get this through your head Sukhi, there are no absolutes in this world and yet sometimes there are. There is no one rule to measure everything but yet sometimes there is. You seem to be under the delusion that your preconcieved notion of what is reality is true while what others hold are false without providing any proof to your assertions. I'm sorry but you are wrong to believe that.

hmmmm... that reminds me of another thread...

http://sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness/vie...t=4314&start=30

... care to respond jamuka?? :wink:

[guv]

oh & just one more thing jamuka...

btw, i'm not gonna waste my time countering your couple of points, as everytime u start losing an argument u run away!! :twisted: if u would care to respond to jt's questions on this thread (even if it is to admit that u were wrong! :wink:):

http://sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness/vie...t=4314&start=30

then i will show u the flaws in your logic on this thread... in the interests of pursuing truth & becoming better people!!

or would that bruise your little ego too much?

[gurdmeister]

Guv I couldn't have made a reply better!

[Sukhi]

Who cares why? The point is that the US was not alone.

so u really don't care about the fact that the US basically forced ppl into agreeing with them?! how ignorant of u.

Who cares of proof?

what do u mean who cares of proof?! innocent ppl died and it doesn't matter to u that there was no proof or seeming need for there to be a war against them?!

You probably like the rest of the peacnicks simply opposed the war to look fashionable.

if u think it's fashionable to try to save the lives of innocent ppl, then i guess that's what it's all about.

Do you honestly believe that POW's under the care of the US is even minutely comparable to POW's under Saddams regime?

once again, just because they aren't as bad as him, does that excuse their actions?

Yes they are better so why are the media and the liberals so biased against the US? Are you trying to imply that having better standards equates being judged differently compared to ruthless regimes? If that is the case, what incentive is there for the US to be better then these regimes? It makes more sense if the US were to mirror these dictators.

are you telling us that the US should be as cruel as the tyrants to get real justice?! get this straight Jamuka: the tyrants were wrong, more so than the US. but just because they were worse, it doesn't excuse the crap that the Americans have done!

I ask you this, when Saddam was busy gassing all those Kurds, where was that famed liberal rage and why had the media not highlighted this?

the famed liberal rage was there. just because u weren't aware of it, it doesn't mean that it didn't exist.

If you think that the US is even minutely comparable to Saddams regime, I feel sorry for you for having a very skewed sense of morality.

i'm not comparing the US with neone. i'm commenting on the fact that what happened was wrong.

Yes and have endless debates while a menace like OBL is free to strike again.

OBL unfortunately did strike again regardless of the war in Afghanistan by bombing other places in the world.

In every war innocent people will get killed but this is not the way to measure if the war was good or bad. When the Gurus opposed Mulim oppression and during the battles that ensued, were there no innocent lives that were killed? Were the Gurus wrong in fighting oppression and waging war aginst tyranny?

did the Guru's torture their enemies? did they fight without reason?

Quote:

are u trying to say that it's ok for the US to do what they're doing because it isn't as bad as what Saddam did?

Answer my question first and stop making assumptions. That is probably why you have a very skewed opinion of the Iraqi war.

i've already done that. ur turn.

Quote:

obviously u have nothing to say to defend ur view. but a suggestion to u would be to refrain from makin personal attacks on ppl when u can't think of nething real to base ur argument on. it's considered a fallacy in philosophy. but i'm sure u already knew that.

It was not a personal attack. Such remarks are befitting of a lunatic so what I had said was actually made in earnest.

and yet again, because u have nothing to argue with me about, u make another personal attack.

[Sherni-E-Punjab]

"Guv I couldn't have made a reply better! "

Oh wait I am guv for a second...Yeh you are probably right

Hahahahahhaha

Just messing about Guv..

[guv]

"Guv I couldn't have made a reply better! "

Oh wait I am guv for a second...Yeh you are probably right

Hahahahahhaha

Just messing about Guv..

lol... there's a spare room in my mental hospital if u're interested! :wink:

[Sherni-E-Punjab]

lol.....perhaps ur patients left it for u ..

the prolly realized that u cud use one to ..afta u gave em da examination...

[guv]

i'm not a doctor :shock:... i'm one of the patients!!!

[Jamuka]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! i've got to give it to u jamuka... u are funny!! ... ever thought about going into stand up comedy??

To be honest I actually have considered becoming a stand up comedian but later decided against it. Thanks for the compliments though.

first of all i'd like to reiterate my previous point. please could u respond to the thread...

I promise I will. In my opinion it is one of the best threads in this folder which is why I want to take my time in giving a proper response. You see most of posts here are made from work which is why sometimes they contain errors.

please could u tell me where i have said "I don't hate America but I hate Bush"? or where i have compared bush to hitler? actually i haven't found a post from anyone saying those things at all. i have only mentioned bush's name in response to your comments. i think it's low even for u j to make up quotes to prove yourself right!!!

Please don't get your 'kashera' in a twist. You're right nobody here compared Bush to Hitler nor did anybody claim they hated Bush. I only used those comonly said one liners used by many liberals as a means to make a point. Where in my posts did I claim you specifically said "Bush is Hitler" or " I don't hate America but I hate Bush" Here is part of what I said earlier...

it is quite another when one makes dubious statemenst like "Bush is like Hitler" and "America is a terror state". Try to see the difference.

Where did I say that you specifically made those statements? Please point out to me where your name is mentioned. Do you actually read my posts before you reply or do you zero in on key words and make your own assumptions? I suspect this is what happened when you made that complaint against Naunidhi's supposed racist remark. I hope you are happy now that she is banned.

so we are in agreement?... seeing as noone said they "hate bush", u just made that up!

Yes, I made that quote "I hate Chirac" as a point but you obviously did not get it. Please point to me where did I mention you making that statement. Go back and read my posts carefully before replying.

BTW here is what gurdmeister originally stated.

gurdmeister wrote

I don't hate America, I hate what the American government is doing around the world!

I'm curious, who forms the American goverment if not the people of America? Is the American goverment and America two separate entities or are they one?

interesting that u think u can dismiss everything these "liberal looneys" say without even reading them!!

Please show me where have I stated that I have never read the news provided by these news agencies. I notice a trend about, you seem to make a lot of assumptions and come to your own conclusions. Please buddy, read my posts carefully before responding.

in response to your dismissing what 'lefties' have said without even reading what they have written, i'd like to quote what someone said on another thread:

Now you're trying to make a comparison which btw is not comparable to what I said in a different thread to this one. Great! Should I point out the differences to you? I think not, let your puny brain undergo a bit of excercise. I'll give you a hint though and lets see if you get it.

i) www.bbcbias.org & www.bbcwatch.com

ii) Pierce Morgan chief editor of Daily Mirror recently sacked for printing doctored pictures despite being warned about it.

It will probably take you a few days but just relax and read carefully and you wil see the difference.

i cannot reconcile this paradox. your behaviour & statements on this thread are completely contrary to what u said on the other thread! i can think of a number of ways in which this apparent paradox can be resolved... please jamuka, could u tell me which one is correct, as i'm very confused!!

Actually the 'paradox' that you speak of only exists in your mind.

1. u're an idiot

2. what u said in the other thread was wrong

3. what u have said on this thread is wrong

4. u're an idiot

5. your logic changes as u see fit, so that it always supports your argument

6. u are so close minded that u cannot see past your own nose, hence u know not what u type

7. u're an idiot

(jokes)

Hey, enough with the 'compliments' already otherwise it might get into my head!

so u really don't care about the fact that the US basically forced ppl into agreeing with them?! how ignorant of u.

And you my friend like to put 'words into my mouth', no? Where did I state I don't care? I was trying to make a point to gurdmeister that he was mistaken to believe that the US was all alone in it's endevour in Iraq. Stop making assumptions like your buddy Guv.

what do u mean who cares of proof?! innocent ppl died and it doesn't matter to u that there was no proof or seeming need for there to be a war against them?!

Again you are making assumptions. Your virulent hatred for the US has clouded your mind and you literally can't see straight.

Should I even bother going through the rest of all your posts? You seem to be making your own assumptions to all my posts, you might as well have a debate with yourself then. LOL!

did the Guru's torture their enemies? did they fight without reason?

Ahem...where did I mention torture? Again, you make your own assumptions. Here is what we both said.

Sukhi wrote

yes, i do know how cruel the taliban was. but it doesn't make it right to punish those ppl who were innocent and under similar oppression for the actions of the taliban. but then again, u seem to think it's ok to punish everyone for the actions of a few horrible ppl.

I replied

In every war innocent people will get killed but this is not the way to measure if the war was good or bad. When the Gurus opposed Mulim oppression and during the battles that ensued, were there no innocent lives that were killed? Were the Gurus wrong in fighting oppression and waging war aginst tyranny?

Your reply

did the Guru's torture their enemies? did they fight without reason?

I'm really curious, we were first addressing the justification for war in Afghanistan. Exactly how does asking me if the Gurus condoned torture fit into our dialogue so far? Now you are going off on a tangent?

[guv]

thanks for replying.

To be honest I actually have considered becoming a stand up comedian but later decided against it. Thanks for the compliments though.

u're very welcome.

I promise I will. In my opinion it is one of the best threads in this folder which is why I want to take my time in giving a proper response.

fair play... i look forward to hearing from u.

You see most of posts here are made from work which is why sometimes they contain errors.

u make errors... never!! are u being serious, or is this one of your jokes again?

i'll read through the rest of your post & respond later... i'll let my "puny brain" work through your thorough arguments first!! .... plus i'm hungry!

[Sukhi]

Jamuka, i'm tired of arguing with u because it's such a waste of time. please reread ur own post before my last reply to understand what i'm talking about. u seem intelligent enough and it's good enough for me if you understand what i'm talking about without insulting me as u've done before. but frankly speaking, i'm tired of ur argumentative nature and ur insults. and because of that, i'm no longer going to reply to ur posts. especially since u don't even make an effort to understand what i'm trying to say. obviously i'm never going to convince u since u rn't even ready to open up enough to try to understand my perspective. but thanks for the thought-provoking debate newho.

[palm_w1]

sup chodus.

this thread is well entertaining, I can't believe how dumb some Americans are, you guys are blinded by nationalism so much it is beyond funny.

Its as though it is impossible for America to do anything wrong? Was Bush born with a halo above his head? Can he do no wrong? How did u guys manage to elect such an idiotic and uneducated person as a president, my dog has a better grasp of english than he has. I think doggie should stand as the next republican party candidate for president.

America has been responsible for way more innocent deaths across the world than Al Qaeda ever has. In fact Bush is such a terrorist that if he was Muslim he would be heading Al Qaeda instead of Ozzy B.

For some entertainment and serious comment check out my website:

www.geocities.com/palm_w1

click on news and/or comment.

Nationalism is a disease and stands in the way of the peoples of the world becoming more integrated. Countries are artificial constructs to prevent human integration and nationalism is a way of keeping people dumbed down so they don't question.

[Beast]

Nationalism is a disease and stands in the way of the peoples of the world becoming more integrated. Countries are artificial constructs to prevent human integration and nationalism is a way of keeping people dumbed down so they don't question.

Brilliant. I agree with that....Amen brother palm_w1 :mrgreen:

[Sherni-E-Punjab]

LOL...Nationalism/ Patriotism ...It exists, can't complain much about that....

Who said Bush never does anything wrong?

"How did u guys manage to elect such an idiotic and uneducated person as a president, my dog has a better grasp of english than he has. I think doggie should stand as the next republican party candidate for president. "

Damn - your dog must be popular the fact he can communicate at the level of humans..LOL..Perhaps I am sure he'll be the best candidate against Kerry..no problem would win easily out of the fifty states

"In fact Bush is such a terrorist that if he was Muslim he would be heading Al Qaeda instead of Ozzy B. "

Who said assumptions were always true?

Blah, blah, blah.....

An American :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

[palm_w1]

LOL...Nationalism/ Patriotism ...It exists, can't complain much about that....

We can try and overcome our ignorances based on nationalistic prejudices

Damn - your dog must be popular the fact he can communicate at the level of humans..LOL..Perhaps I am sure he'll be the best candidate against Kerry..no problem would win easily out of the fifty states

Rupy u assume that Bush can communicate at the level of humans, everything he says is gibberish.

"In fact Bush is such a terrorist that if he was Muslim he would be heading Al Qaeda instead of Ozzy B. "

Who said assumptions were always true?

You were supposed to laugh at that but never mind, it was meant to humourosly (excuse spelling, i am feeling like Dubya) show that Bush is an extremist and carries out terrorist actions.