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http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0286499/board/nest/6676375

Original post

"After the big backlash on "Lost in Translation" "The Joy Luck Club" and "My Big Fat Greek Wedding", I'm curious now. Any Asian Indians out there who were offended by "Bend It Like Beckham"? If so, why?!"

My post (after like 10 i think and the only Sikh one too)

"Yeh I was offended because I was brought up quite conservatively (though I found religion for myself) and I felt that the film promotes stereotypes and trivialises Sikh family values. For example, in our culture we would obey and respect our parents discission (unless of course they were wishing you to do evil etc). So stuff like when she lied to her parents several times and when she skipped Gurdwara (Sikh equivalent of a church) just to play football. Also the parents were made to look pretentious and over bearing (particularly the mother who seemed to be a fanatic at times).

Also I found it offensive how the girl ran off with the coach, in our culture it is seen as very important to marry off to another Sikh (wether or not the marriage was arranged) and it really triviliased the subject and kind of promoted the idea that the old religion/culture is silly/pointless as the parents were made to look unfair and strict wheras Jess being young and innocent appealed to the audience.

Another thing that annoyed me was how the mother would talk to her photo of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji (revered to as Baba Ji in the movie), in Sikhism idolism is rejected yet it shows her treating the picture like it had a soul.

This is just an opinion from a practising Sikh.

Also I wouldn't have enjoyed the film anyway, it was quite mediocre I felt, if you've seen East Is East or American Desi then the ethnic jokes would seem rather bland. Plus the lesbian subplot was only mildly funny and the gay joke was completely random and out of place. Though her obnoxious friends (the male ones obviously) were a tad bit funny but in my opinion still doesn't redeem the film."

Some (apparantly) gorie/atheist's reply to my post:

"Okay, I have to ask...do many of you folks see what you're doing here? By decrying stereotypes, you perpetuate them.

Does it matter so very much that Jes' family is not the `perfect' Sikh representation? Isn't that the point of the movie? That *no one* is perfect regardless of race, and that every race, color, creed, nationality, religion, and sexual orientation have the exact same problems as every other person alive in the world.

What I got out of the movie...strip away the titles and labels. Indian, Sikh, Irish, British, white, male, female, old, young...and just see these characters as people. Not every person born to a Sikh family is going to embrace the culture. Jes happens to be one of them; she respects her family's culture but is also embracing her own life. Every person with a mind, heart, and soul does the same thing. Being born into a Sikh family...or American Indian family, or Chinese family, or white ultra-right-wing religious conservative family...does not automatically mean you have to do and be exactly the same.

You've seen this movie a thousand times before, and probably laughed and cheered. Think `Dirty Dancing', `Footloose', `Malibu's Most Wanted', `School of Rock', etc and so forth. Parents want one thing for a child, child has a gift or talent the family thinks is foolish or not worth pursuing, child is determined to go their own way...

By focusing on the ethnicity, nationality, or religious persuasion of a particular character, you yourself are perpetuating stereotypes and racism. Claiming that a certain detail somehow overpowers the basic humanity of the character. People are just...people.

To me, that's where BILB really outdid the competition. Jules and Jes have the exact same problems: both Moms want their daughters to live their version of the traditional life. Cultures and religion really don't enter into it. It's about the new generation having the chance and the choice to pursue their dreams, not their parents. Trying and perhaps failing, but having the freedom to make the choice, take the chance.

I've been lucky to be exposed to a broad variety of races and cultures in my time. And not just exposure to the culture as a whole, but the individuals within it. Guess what? They've all got the same basic problems, worries, and fears as casual old white-bread American me. Parents want their kids to excel, kids want to push the boundaries and establish their own identities, the rent has to be paid, food has to be cooked, people die suddenly and unexpectedly, babies are born, and life goes on. The human experience is omni-racial. I'm pretty certain everyone here of a particular race, religion, or ethnicity knows someone who gossips, cheats on their spouse, lies habitually, has moved outside their culture, is repressive, obsessive, neurotic, psychotic, alcoholic, drug addict, unwed parent, ad infinitum.

That doesn't make them...or you...stereotypes. It makes all of us human.

Think about it."

God talk about loose liberal, an obviously anti religious hippie type person so I can't get her to shut the hell up by explaining Sikhism to her, so can anyone here help me out because I all i got so far is

"The original post asks if any Indians (ie originating from the Indian subcontinent) were offended and i was therefore i made the post. Your opinion is invalid in relation to the topic at hand so don't attack and shove your beliefs down my throat, I was just expressing an opinion from someone who IS actually from the same culture rather than someone who has embraced another culture and has little experience of his ancestors culture other than being tanned."

BTW I think every one on these forums should register on this site http://www.imdb.com/ because some of these films are very overated whilst others are very underated (based on user votes which I believe don't represent a large enough proportion of society).

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Guest Javanmard

Chill out!!!

I mean, your avatar (MrT) is a notorious homosexual and yet you find ok to teach everyone your "ABC of Sikh culture for dummies" and say how disgusted you are by the gay and lesbian jokes!!!

"Gurdvara the equivalent of a church"?!?!??!?! What a joke!!!

The gurdvara is Maharaj's court, a darbar not a church!!!

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Since when was Mr T gay? Last time I checked he was a exercise, milk promoting role model who doesn't drink and is suppose to be a good Christian and a family man. I don't adore the guy but I thought the avatar was a bit funny.

"Gurdvara the equivalent of a church"?!?!??!?! What a joke!!!

The gurdvara is Maharaj's court, a darbar not a church!!!"

uhhhh, it IS the equivalent as it is where we congregate and Christians congregate in Churches. Both buildings are used for the worship of God and mass/sangat. Are you trying to say that the Church is obsolete because they havn't got their own Guru Granth Sahib Ji or are you trying to say that Christians are praying in vain to the "wrong" god.

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uhhhh, it IS the equivalent as it is where we congregate and Christians congregate in Churches. Both buildings are used for the worship of God and mass/sangat. Are you trying to say that the Church is obsolete because they havn't got their own Guru Granth Sahib Ji or are you trying to say that Christians are praying in vain to the "wrong" god.

Not to nitpick, but 'shaka nyorai' is correct - a Gurdwara is not equivalent to a Church. At best, they can be considered similar. For instance, a Gurdwara has Guru-Ka-Langar while a Church, to the best of my knowledge, does not.

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Guest Javanmard

WOW that's new now! So according to you gay people don't drink milk and don't have families! :LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL: That's new!!!

So Giani G are you a traditional Sikh?

If yes I suppose you have tanda pani da ishnan in the morning, brush your teeth with dattan and scrape your tongue, practise jhatka or go hunting, take shahidi degh, curl your muchan (that's if you have them), put perfume on your kesh, write your won gutka, make love like Kaamdeva, learn Sanskrit and Braj, play a traditional instrument, practise shastarvidya, honour women, pay allegiance to Guru Granth Sahib in its three forms (Adi, Dasam and Sarabloh) and don't have a problem with Guru Harigobind, Guru HariRai and Guru Gobind SIngh being polygamous!

If you don't then please stop talking about "tradition" to others when you even don't practise your own properly!!!

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practise jhatka or go hunting, take shahidi degh, curl your muchan (that's if you have them), put perfume on your kesh, write your won gutka, make love like Kaamdeva,
`

most of these are not traditions but practiced and beleived by the UK nihangs only and their few associates. But even they don’t practice Jhaatka, because as we all know Jhatka is not offered in the UK as they are all factory farmed animals, which are not killed using the Jhatka.

Make love like Kaamdev? what kind of perverted tradition is this? the tradition of anceint Indian prositutes? how can one honour women by such a lustful(perverted!) mind?

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Kaam is one of the five evils we are suppose to elevate ourselves from. It is for procreation. Kaam Dev is the god of love in Indian mythology. So if by making ‘love’ to your wife like kaamdev, would imply treating her like a peace of meat? Is that your idea of honouring women?

“pay allegiance to Guru Granth Sahib in its three forms (Adi, Dasam and Sarabloh) “

Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee is complete Guru in itself. It is Guru even without Sri Dasam Granth or ‘Sarbloh’ Granth.

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Guest Javanmard

I will let the sacred words of Guru Gobind Singh respond:

1. In Jaap Sahib Guru Gobind Singh qualifies the Divine as Jogi and Bhogi (Enjoyer) see 28; the Love of Love see 68; the Enjoyer of All see 69

2. In Akal Ustati in verses 12, 112 and 130 Guru Gobind Singh says that the Divine manifests itself in the Kok Shastras (Kaam shastras) and even sensual pleasures see 17.

3. In Bacitar Natak the Divine is called Desire of Desires (Kaam) in verse 10.

4. Again in Gian Prabodh Guru Gobind SIngh refers to the Kok shatras

Notice that I haven't even mentioned Charitropakhyan because I know that Neo-Sikhs like you refuse it thus insulting Guru Gobind Singh.

I don't expect (admin cut) like you to understand the importance of knowing kaam shastars in order to control kaam. In fact I think I have found mention of people like you and your friends in Akal Ustati in verse 150 where Guru Gobind Singh talks about nar (men), nari (women) and napumsak (3rd gender i.e. eunuchs, transvestites and homosexuals). :LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL:

No wonder it is so easy for these Sunni idiots to seduce Sikh girls when Neo-Sikh men refuse to learn how to treat their wives like queens!!!!

Moderator's Note: Please take personal issues/name calling over the pm.

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http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0286499/board/nest/6676375

Original post

"After the big backlash on "Lost in Translation" "The Joy Luck Club" and "My Big Fat Greek Wedding", I'm curious now. Any Asian Indians out there who were offended by "Bend It Like Beckham"? If so, why?!"

My post (after like 10 i think and the only Sikh one too)

"Yeh I was offended because I was brought up quite conservatively (though I found religion for myself) and I felt that the film promotes stereotypes and trivialises Sikh family values. For example, in our culture we would obey and respect our parents discission (unless of course they were wishing you to do evil etc). So stuff like when she lied to her parents several times and when she skipped Gurdwara (Sikh equivalent of a church) just to play football. Also the parents were made to look pretentious and over bearing (particularly the mother who seemed to be a fanatic at times).

Also I found it offensive how the girl ran off with the coach, in our culture it is seen as very important to marry off to another Sikh (wether or not the marriage was arranged) and it really triviliased the subject and kind of promoted the idea that the old religion/culture is silly/pointless as the parents were made to look unfair and strict wheras Jess being young and innocent appealed to the audience.

Another thing that annoyed me was how the mother would talk to her photo of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji (revered to as Baba Ji in the movie), in Sikhism idolism is rejected yet it shows her treating the picture like it had a soul.

This is just an opinion from a practising Sikh.

Also I wouldn't have enjoyed the film anyway, it was quite mediocre I felt, if you've seen East Is East or American Desi then the ethnic jokes would seem rather bland. Plus the lesbian subplot was only mildly funny and the gay joke was completely random and out of place. Though her obnoxious friends (the male ones obviously) were a tad bit funny but in my opinion still doesn't redeem the film."

Some (apparantly) gorie/atheist's reply to my post:

"Okay, I have to ask...do many of you folks see what you're doing here? By decrying stereotypes, you perpetuate them.

Does it matter so very much that Jes' family is not the `perfect' Sikh representation? Isn't that the point of the movie? That *no one* is perfect regardless of race, and that every race, color, creed, nationality, religion, and sexual orientation have the exact same problems as every other person alive in the world.

What I got out of the movie...strip away the titles and labels. Indian, Sikh, Irish, British, white, male, female, old, young...and just see these characters as people. Not every person born to a Sikh family is going to embrace the culture. Jes happens to be one of them; she respects her family's culture but is also embracing her own life. Every person with a mind, heart, and soul does the same thing. Being born into a Sikh family...or American Indian family, or Chinese family, or white ultra-right-wing religious conservative family...does not automatically mean you have to do and be exactly the same.

You've seen this movie a thousand times before, and probably laughed and cheered. Think `Dirty Dancing', `Footloose', `Malibu's Most Wanted', `School of Rock', etc and so forth. Parents want one thing for a child, child has a gift or talent the family thinks is foolish or not worth pursuing, child is determined to go their own way...

By focusing on the ethnicity, nationality, or religious persuasion of a particular character, you yourself are perpetuating stereotypes and racism. Claiming that a certain detail somehow overpowers the basic humanity of the character. People are just...people.

To me, that's where BILB really outdid the competition. Jules and Jes have the exact same problems: both Moms want their daughters to live their version of the traditional life. Cultures and religion really don't enter into it. It's about the new generation having the chance and the choice to pursue their dreams, not their parents. Trying and perhaps failing, but having the freedom to make the choice, take the chance.

I've been lucky to be exposed to a broad variety of races and cultures in my time. And not just exposure to the culture as a whole, but the individuals within it. Guess what? They've all got the same basic problems, worries, and fears as casual old white-bread American me. Parents want their kids to excel, kids want to push the boundaries and establish their own identities, the rent has to be paid, food has to be cooked, people die suddenly and unexpectedly, babies are born, and life goes on. The human experience is omni-racial. I'm pretty certain everyone here of a particular race, religion, or ethnicity knows someone who gossips, cheats on their spouse, lies habitually, has moved outside their culture, is repressive, obsessive, neurotic, psychotic, alcoholic, drug addict, unwed parent, ad infinitum.

That doesn't make them...or you...stereotypes. It makes all of us human.

Think about it."

God talk about loose liberal, an obviously anti religious hippie type person so I can't get her to shut the hell up by explaining Sikhism to her, so can anyone here help me out because I all i got so far is

"The original post asks if any Indians (ie originating from the Indian subcontinent) were offended and i was therefore i made the post. Your opinion is invalid in relation to the topic at hand so don't attack and shove your beliefs down my throat, I was just expressing an opinion from someone who IS actually from the same culture rather than someone who has embraced another culture and has little experience of his ancestors culture other than being tanned."

BTW I think every one on these forums should register on this site http://www.imdb.com/ because some of these films are very overated whilst others are very underated (based on user votes which I believe don't represent a large enough proportion of society).

Both viewpoints have a valid argument.

They've heard your thoughts, you've heard theirs.

There should be no need for any further discussion.

Regards,

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First of all Lalleshwari or Shaka, I don’t care to know how you misinterpret Gurbani to suit and justify your lustful thoughts. Here is what Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee has to say about perverts:

paapee heeai mai kaam basaae ||

The heart of the sinner is filled with unfulfilled sexual desire

man cha(n)chal yaa thae gehiou n jaae ||

He cannot control his fickle mind.

nimakh kaam suaadh kaaran kott dhinas dhukh paavehi ||

For a moment of sexual pleasure, you shall suffer in pain for millions of days.

gharee muhath ra(n)g maanehi fir bahur bahur pashhuthaavehi

For an instant, you may savor pleasure, but afterwards, you shall regret it, again and again.

ham keheeath kalijug kae kaamee

I am called a lustful being of the Dark Age of Kali Yuga.

ein pa(n)chan maero man j bigaariou

The five vices have corrupted my mind.

pal pal har jee thae a(n)thar paariou

Moment by moment, they lead me further away from the Lord.

“I don't expect (admin cut) like you to understand the importance of knowing kaam shastars in order to control kaam.â€

Control Kaam? You’re the one who is talking about making love with a woman like the uncontrollable lustful Kaamdev(God of lust).

“In fact I think I have found mention of people like you and your friends in Akal Ustati in verse 150 where Guru Gobind Singh talks about nar (men), nari (women) and napumsak (3rd gender i.e. eunuchs, transvestites and homosexuals).â€

Well, I wont let you drag me down to your level of name calling. So I will leave it at that.

BTW it’s pronounced as ‘Napunsik’ not ‘napumsak’, and it means impotent in other words it is a synonym for namard. It doesn’t mean ‘3rd gender i.e. eunuchs, transvestites and homosexuals’.

Please use a bit more sense when getting out of control.

“No wonder it is so easy for these Sunni idiots to seduce Sikh girls when Neo-Sikh men refuse to learn how to treat their wives like queens!!!!â€

I never knew that treating your wife like a piece of meat is to treat her like a Queen?

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In response to shaka's earlier comments,

Well who told you he (Mr T) was gay, have you seen him getting jiggy with other guys or did he make a pass at you in those bars you go.

Yes gays can drink milk but its one of Mr T's trademarks as well as his many others like the A Team, Clubber Lang (Rocky 3) etc. No ones gonna remember him for being gay (not that anyone I know heard these so called rumours :roll: ) but they will for the A Team (even though that was corny). O yeh as a matter of fact I do have a mucha (as well as kes), and I don't practise "tradition" just religion and I can preach Sikhism if I want, just because I can't play a vaja or hunt a deer :roll: means that I'm a hypocrite or a false Sikh. Anyone (Khalsa or not) should preach Sikhism so as long as they're not bordering hypocrasy (ie getting drunk, sleeping around, inciting prejudice etc).

Anyway forget about him, this post wasn't about him or homosexuality.

I'm gonna forget about that making that post back to that gorie (mainly to avoid getting spammed by a mob of atheists and Nagra lovers) but it annoyed me that she implied how religion CAN NOT co exist with a career (I highlighted the relevant parts in her post). Also her suggestion that we should take our oppurtunities over our parents wishes is a selfish suggestion (which is why I guess you don't get any Sikhs in pensioner homes), wouldn't it be better to make your parents proud and help yourself out at the same time.

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Guest Javanmard

Sorry Singh47 but the word napumsa(i)k does mean non-masculine and refers to the grammatical and sociological third gender!!!

Dear Singh47 I did not know that making love to your wife was perversion. That probably makes most husbands who love their wives criminals!!!

I beg SIngh47 to teach me the ways of the castrated as they seem to be the true way for a happy married life!!!

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Napunsik means sexual impotency, not third gender. This is well known for anyone who comes from India. Trying to say that Napunsik means ‘third’ gender is like someone claiming the word ‘impotent’ means third gender, when in fact we all know that is not the case. In India the third gender is referred to as Kusraa.

The reason I brought up the issue of ‘love’ making is because you claim that in order to be a ‘traditional’ Sikh one needs to make ‘love’ like the lustful kaamdev (God of lust). I resent that, because that is not a part of Sikhi. That is not Sikh tradition, but the tradition of prostitutes. The ideal Sikh tries to control those urges through Bani and Naam, not indulge in it, and justify it by saying he is just following ‘traditional’ Sikhi. If you cannot control your lustful mind, then please don’t use Sikhism to justify it.

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Guest Javanmard

Check any Snaskrit grammar: napumsak means both nu-manly and 3rd gender!!! Kusra is just one type of third gender!!!

Instructions of Kok shastar are referred in gurbani and Sikhs were asked to master this art in order to control Kaam. Kaamshastar is about controlling Kaam. Repressing it makes you sick, indulging it makes you a slave, mastering it makes you it's master!

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