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Akali and Nihang -are they of the same stock?


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Guest Sardar Moderator Singh

Gur Fateh!

It appears that today we talk of Akalis and Nihangs interchangeably or as part of a ranking systems within Nihangs. From the below readings supplied by Forward-Backwards Veer Ji, it would appear otherwise:-

“They (the Akalis) have now aligned theirselves with the nihang panth”

Please discuss.

Note referred to:-

Bharat mat darpan: p. 21

Writer sri mahant ganesha singh ji (dera guru sar, khuda, hoshiarpur)

Publisher: chatter singh, jeevan singh

Published:1992

AKAALEEYAY!

This is a reference to who we refer to as akali’s of old!

A few theories written about the origins of the akalis

1) one day guru gobind singh ji maharaj gave (mah <black gram, dal>, thil (sesame seeds <sesamum indicum>, loha<iron>, and neelay bastar<blue clothes>, thula <oil>) to a Brahman. The Brahman was on his way home and some singhs inebriated with bhang took his stuff away. The Brahman, quite upset, went back to guru gobind singh and lodged a complaint. Guru gobind singh laughed and said “these guys are akaalees” ( bhaye eh akaaleey eh). Guru gobind singh further said “ I took out poverty(nan g), hunger(bhuk), calamities(darider), obstacles(greh) dasha’s out of our house. They took these items without thinkings and they will now have the aforementioned dasha’s.

at that point guru gobind singh took the loha kard, karray,and adorned the singhs with blue attire…..then he said “eh sikh meray akaleeyay han”! hence story #1 about the origins of akali’s.

2) The second story relates to machiwaara and how guru sahib became uch da pir. He had worn blue clothes and let his hair out. He had gone to dhillong nagar and taken off his blue clothes and dressed in white. He burnt the blue clothes and gave one strip of the blue cloth to maan singh. From that point on, akalees started

3) Naina singh nihang had a chela named phoola singh. (yes, akali phoola singh)…He was a ferocious warrior and was given a regiment by maharaja ranjit singh called the “akaal” regiment. They wore kacha, karray, carried a kirpan, and wore blue clothes. They ate out of iron utensils and would shout akaal twice in the evening. They were hence called akaaleeyay, and they dismantled at akali phoola singh’s death.

A bit about akalees:

They were blue clothes, eat out of iron utensils (sarablohi). They don’t believe in anything and don’t associate with anyone outside of guru granth sahib ji. They don’t eat with anyone unless they are amritdhari. They do parkarma in the opposite to direction of everyone else. They eat from their own cooked food (sodhee) <they won’t even look at anyone else’s food….bibeki>. They have now aligned theirselves with the nihang panth.

Bharat mat darpan: p. 192

Writer sri mahant ganesha singh ji (dera guru sar, khuda, hoshiarpur)

Publisher: chatter singh, jeevan singh

Published:1992

The khalsa panth has a section called the nihangs. One day guru gobind singh’s son, fateh singh, came into the darbar with a round loosely tied (tillee) dastar, a tilla kacchera, a salotar on his shoulders and he shouted fateh really loud. Guru sahib saw his son and smiled with happiness and said “a panth will be established that will follow your precedent”.

In suraj prakash it is said that guru gobind singh saw maan singh inebriated with bhang at machiwarra and his pagh loosening up and became happy and said “a panth that will be following the precedent you have established… “ajehi haalat rakhan waala….”

The damalla

Naina singh nihang was known for eating langar with really poor people (Sikhs). One day he had drank too much bhang and made his pagh uchee and read “ mera gur mil uch damalra”. These damallay’s came into vogue after that time and they are called naina singh damallay’s.

Nihangs don’t believe there is anyone else who is as authentic (vidaata) as them. They talk differently. They partake meat, bhang, post, afeem and don’t believe there is sin in any of it. They don’t believe stealing is wrong either. They don’t do much katha, satsang, teerath, fasting. Their sole focus is on listening to and reading gurbani. They read a lot of dasam baani. Kacha, karra, kanga, kard, and kes are the 5 kakkars they always wear. They are full of bir rass. They don’t learn vidiya (again from a nirmalla perspective, they mean shaastras (religious texts) not shastars (weapons). They don’t come close to even doing any type of veechar. They have their own code language that they use amongst theirselves and when addressing others...so that their questions are difficult to answer.

This group is now part of either the akaalees or the khalsa panth

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Wahiguru Ji Ka Khalsa Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

Prsent day 'Akli dals' and many a factions like badal etc. are using the name which was given to Nihungs.

untill and unless these self aclaimed Akalis do not undergo baptism from Nihungs they can not be called Akalis.

Nihungs took first control of many a Gurdwaras from curropt people in Hazur sahib area. Bhai Mahakal Singh attained Martyerdom in this stuggle.

likewise shaheed Bagh in Anandpur Sahib was taken by Nihungs from people ,who were occupiing it becouse some of there forefather had been an offspring of our Gurus. they call it Guru Ansh .

The people ,who did similar acts to take control of Gurudwaras during Gurudwara Sudhar movement.They were told doing it like Akalis(Nihungs) did.

slowly the same people started to be known as Akali and made a ploitical grouping of them too but they are Akalis only by chance and not by truth.

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Guest Sardar Moderator Singh

Dear Narsingha,

Thank you for providing this information so promptly, please could you also kindly address the outstanding questions raised earlier on the threads relating to separate Amrit Sanchar for various castes under the Buddha Dal and also the selective choice of reference material and scholars on your website.

Thanking you,

SMS.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

Dear SM Singh Ji,

Charan Sparsh(Das touches your feet)

Das can say a few words regarding 'casteism' in Budha Dal.Das seeks your permission but also seeks an answer from you.

In Hazur Sahib(Nanded),If Lambari(Nomad),Banjara(Trader Namad) or Sikligar(Blacksmith) wants to have Amrit ,what is a procedure there ?

(das is Happy by this that in that Area,unlike in Malwa Area(Around Takhat Damdama Sahib) Sikhism is popular in local non Punjabis also)

Das awaits your answer.

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The bhung part is wrong. The rest is okay. Sikhs never took bhung before. It was started from Hari SIngh bhungee. That is why he is called bhungee. The missle he lead was also named bhungee because of his bhung addiction. It is clearly stated in Mahan Kosh. The pdf version, it can be downloaded from rara sahib website or sikhnet.

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gurfateh,

after reading bharat mat darpan...I still believe they were 2 seperate distinct groups. They may have co-existed, but I believe someone like pandit ganesha singh would have been VERY firm that they were the "leader/pritham" panth had that been the truth in its entirity

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Guest Sardar Moderator Singh

Dear forward-backward Veer,

Thank you again for your insight, this is indeed why the original question was raised. Whilst the sites referenced by Veer Narsingha provide one account of what is evident today, as with everything, not all things are crystal clear.

Please continue to discuss.

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Guest Sardar Moderator Singh

Dear Vijaydeep Singh,

Gur Fateh Parvaan Hove!

Please reserve "Charan Sparsh" for he who is deserving of it (Guru Maharaj), between us brothers only his Fateh shall sound.

Singh Sahib, you need not seek permission to express your views or present you information, please proceed and bring it online.

As per Hazoor Sahib, I cannot comment as I am neither a Hazoori Singh nor present there to have this insight to be a qualified commentator. I have 'heard' that there have been occasions when aspirants for Amrit Sanchar are separated into the 4 varnas when lined up and then come together into one to illustrate physically as well as spiritually the coming of the 4 into 1 when the Amrit is imparted and the bata and parshad shared -this is only through hearsay, so I cannot confirm this as being authentic, perhaps others can do so.

In any event, it is quite different from that which is practised in the Buddha Dal, where the Chautha Paur, even after Amrit Sanchar are given a separate Langar and many "Jatt" Nihangs who may have transgressed in their rehit given the hukam to dine with the Chautha Paur when delivered their Pesh.

Moreover, given the heavy reliance on the works of Gyani Gyan Singh, it is strange that to see that his account of the Amrit Sanchar in which Guru Sahib is said to addressed the Amritdhari Singhs as part of the Sodhi Khatri Tribe (Sodhibans) is effectively ignored in the behaviour evident amongst the Dal.

Regards,

SMS.

Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

Dear SM Singh Ji,

Charan Sparsh(Das touches your feet)

Das can say a few words regarding 'casteism' in Budha Dal.Das seeks your permission but also seeks an answer from you.

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Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

Yes what you are saying is correct.

Gurudev did say that four Varnas have to be made one.

You can get it from Var 1 of bhai Gurdas when he says First Nanak made Four Varna as one.

Then bhai Gurdas IInd says about Tenth Guru as ape Gur Chela,Self Guru and Self Chela so this is must that Gurudev had to have taken Amrit from Five Sikhs so does he becomes Sikh of Khalsa Guru.

Das is bringing in a fe quote from Budha Dal Version of Sarbloh Guru Darbar

Bhag 3

Adhyaya 5th

Pad 862

Khalsa Mero Mitre Sakhai..Khalsa Mat Pita Sukhdai..

Khalsa is my friend,Buddy..Khalsa is comferting mother and Father..

Khalsa Meri Sobha Seel.. Khalsa Bandh Sakha sad deel..

Khalsa is my fame and respect..Khalsa is Brthren,comrade,Good Physical extent..

Khalsa Mero Swajan Parwar..Khalsa Mero Karat Udhar..

Khalsa is my own people(own) Family..Khalsa does my Salvation..

Khalsa Mero Pind Paran..Khalsa Meri Jaan Ki Jaan..

Khalsa is my body and life..Khalsa is life of my life..

Khalsa Mero Kar Nirbah..Khalsa Mera/i Deh Aru Sah..

Khalsa does my livilihood(purpose of life)..Khalsa is my body and breath..

Khalsa Mero Satguru Pura..Khalsa Mero Swajjan Sura..

Khalsa is my complete true Guru.. Khalsa is my own people,Couragious..

Hau Khalas kau,Khalsa Mero..

I am of Khalsa,Khalsa is mine..

Oat Poat Saga® Bundero..

One in the way of Sea and drop

Pad 863

Mitra Kutumb Dhan bhavan Mam,

Samridh Kripa Kar Tasa..

Friend Family wealth,mansion of me,

Well to do (due to ) mercy of Hand of them(Khalsa)

no diference between Me,God And Khalsa .

Das has not done explanation of all but a few realvant lines.

They state Khalsa as body,Staguru and Family of Guru Gobind Singh Ji.In a family can a people from differnt caste exist ? Das says no.

This is third religeon and Pahul of Khanda is to be taken by all(As Bhai Gurdas IInd wrote).

Now das comes on Hazur Sahib episode(If some one from Hazur Sahib code is there then kindly inform das if he goes wrong).

There is a Chavani of Nihungs over there at Gurudwara of Mata Sahib Kaur(Devan). The Nihungs there tell by oral traditions that on the occasion of Vaishakhi 1799 a day before Guru told Mata that she will be given a son who will reamain till world reamain.That son is Khalsa.Not lower or higher but equal.

So as in Hazur Sahib Das has seen that be it Nihungs or non Nihungs there every person can get baptism.Yes non punjabi local of 'lower 'caste can get baptism with other 'high' born Punjabis,Many of them even become better Gyanis then Punjabi,There is a training establishment been run in Sach Khand Abchal Nagar Hazur Sahib(it is shamefull when some sgpc supporter from Punjab call Hazur Sahib people as propogator of Brahmanism as rather party who is in majority in sgpc is having a tie up with Hinduva forces).

Das salutes Singhs of Hazur Sahib for that.BUT as it happened in Safpur Hastinapur(West UP) ,that sgpc and Sewapanthis hurridly Baptised few hindu Jats into Sikhism but they could not resist Biri Samoking and huqqa smoking and they soon became Patit.Das is not sure but in Bidar also Das did see Sabat Surat Lambaid smoking Biri.May be we was not a Sikh or may be not an Amritdhari.But All Sikhs institutions who carry out Baptism either in Punjab,Delhi ,Bihar or Nandeed (Mahrshtra) must make sure that the person about to undergo is strong enough to desist addiction to smoking.

Five beloved one did passed the test by offering there life but what about any person just trying to be Sikh,Say for personal interest.Safguard must be taken in that regard.Das also wants to tell that it is real that five beloved one were real person.The native palces of them are known,caste of there hindu ancestor were known,Three of them were from Sudra varn hindu ancestor.There was a Gurudwara in Gujrat,which will be renovated soon comemrating the one of three,who was from Gujrat.They did take Amrit and they did give KhandeDhar Pahul to Guru so was Guru Ape Guru Chela(As per Bhai Gurdas).

So that thing is not in Nihungs of Majha either.Das had known some one from them.

Coming to Budh Dal,One of its Jathedar ,who was first Badshah of Sikhs,Sultan ul qaum ,Jassa Singh Ahluwal was having a sudra ancestors as Kalal(in Bihar hindu Kalal are there,Kalal make alchohal).He was nurutrured in Delhi by no one else but Mother(s) of Sikhs(wife of Tenth Guru).He was then brought back in Punjab by Nawab Kapur Singh(his ancestors were Virk or Solanki Jats) and Mother of Jassa Singh was sister of Faith of Nawab Kapur Singh.He was eating food in the house of Maternal uncle of Jassa Singh,Perhaps he first met Jassa Singh/his mother or Jassa Singh was given into his care.

Legend in Nihungs is that as Jassa Singh Ahluwal use to speak hindi so Punjabi speaking Sikhs use to make fun of him.so he went to Jathedar of Panth Nawab Kapur Singh and complained him.Nawab Said,Dear Jassa Singh ! Singh are Ladli Fauj(petsered Army) of Guru ,If they make fun of you consider your self fortunate,Have servitude in them,They have made me Nawab,They may make you Badshah!

This did happen.Just for today to tell whole of the world that Jathedar of Budhadal had sudra Kalal acestors he made a coin with inscription in farsi

Sikkh Yafat Dar Jahan Ba Fazl e Akal

coin obtained in world with Mercy of Akal

Ahamad Mulk Girafte Jassa Kalal

Ahamd Shah Abdali Kingdom holding Jassa Kalal

or Ahmad is name of Mustfa annexxing (who had

So Muslim rule is called humble

Nijam e mustafa Linage of Kalal)

This can mean

Muslim rule

So it was Budha Dal who made Sudra as King of Sikhs.Even in Muslim rule same thing did not happen in India.

So in India's Budha dal,Person from those families who are half hindu/half Sikh and had tendency to use tobbaco(Das's Father and 3 elder brother use tobbaco so das does not share food with them or even with his rest of hindu family).Sikhs with Jats ancestors are totaly Sikh family(at present in then also there are many Patita and smokers).So with total Sikh family Amrit Sanskar is differnt from one ,on whom there is still a doubt of smoking.Das wants to tell you there are many people in India ,who use the garb of Nihung just for personal use like using free railways.It is expected from them that they may smoke in secrate.

But then again in budhdal only these people have a probation period. Once it is find oout that they are fully Sikh and moving for higher esteems of sprituality they are broghout in main fold.There children or them are baptied as per other Sikhs.

Baba Nidder Singh Ji Called them reaching at the sate of Brahm Gyan.Sahin NarSingha can confirm it.

But in UK,there Nihungs of Budhadal are least bothered about caste.Das has shared food with them.Das as per Manu Samriti is below Sudra because mother of Das is from Khatri Family and father from lowest of Vaishyas.So due to Partiloan Vivah Das is by Birth Pancham Varna lower then sudra.But BudhDal of UK so far has neve descriminated Das for that.

Be it education of Martial art or be it food.

Lastly das want to put forward a point that he discussed about quistion you raised,With Jathedar of UK. In future other Safe guard can be taken regarding not going to spoil the body of Amrit Dhari by using tobacco and people from any family backgraound BA FAZL E AKAL soon be taking Amrit Togather.

Das has just come accross a case where an Afghan lady wants to marry a boy ,whose father are Sikhs.So in our Case say in Nirmala we can convert them.Das think that Nihungs also may do the same.

Das seeks guidance of all for the future.

(as per Sau Sakhi,in future in The Army of Guru ie Khalsa,There will be many Persons from Muslims,Europian(so Called White),Mongol or may Be African(So Called Black) anscestors.Time now for Nihungs is to be ready to welcome them . Das thing using term of race or colouer is agaisnt the princeple of Gurmat so he never use term Gora or Kala).

Forgive das if wrong is written.

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Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

Yes what you are saying is correct.

Gurudev did want that four Varnas have to be made one.

You can get it from Var 1 of bhai Gurdas when he says First Nanak made Four Varna as one.

Then bhai Gurdas IInd says about Tenth Guru as ape Gur Chela,Self Guru and Self Chela so this is must that Gurudev had to have taken Amrit from Five Sikhs so does he becomes Sikh of Khalsa Guru.

Das is bringing in a fe quote from Budha Dal Version of Sarbloh Guru Darbar

Bhag 3

Adhyaya 5th

Pad 862

Khalsa Mero Mitre Sakhai..Khalsa Mat Pita Sukhdai..

Khalsa is my friend,Buddy..Khalsa is comferting mother and Father..

Khalsa Meri Sobha Seel.. Khalsa Bandh Sakha sad deel..

Khalsa is my fame and respect..Khalsa is Brthren,comrade,Good Physical extent..

Khalsa Mero Swajan Parwar..Khalsa Mero Karat Udhar..

Khalsa is my own people(own) Family..Khalsa does my Salvation..

Khalsa Mero Pind Paran..Khalsa Meri Jaan Ki Jaan..

Khalsa is my body and life..Khalsa is life of my life..

Khalsa Mero Kar Nirbah..Khalsa Mera/i Deh Aru Sah..

Khalsa does my livilihood(purpose of life)..Khalsa is my body and breath..

Khalsa Mero Satguru Pura..Khalsa Mero Swajjan Sura..

Khalsa is my complete true Guru.. Khalsa is my own people,Couragious..

Hau Khalas kau,Khalsa Mero..

I am of Khalsa,Khalsa is mine..

Oat Poat Saga® Bundero..

One in the way of Sea and drop

Pad 863

Mitra Kutumb Dhan bhavan Mam,

Samridh Kripa Kar Tasa..

Friend Family wealth,mansion of me,

Well to do (due to ) mercy of Hand of them(Khalsa)

no diference between Me,God And Khalsa .

Das has not done explanation of all but a few realvant lines.

They state Khalsa as body,Staguru and Family of Guru Gobind Singh Ji.In a family can a people from differnt caste exist ? Das says no.

This is third religeon and Pahul of Khanda is to be taken by all(As Bhai Gurdas IInd wrote).

Now das comes on Hazur Sahib episode(If some one from Hazur Sahib code is there then kindly inform das if he goes wrong).

There is a Chavani of Nihungs over there at Gurudwara of Mata Sahib Kaur(Devan). The Nihungs there tell by oral traditions that on the occasion of Vaishakhi 1799 a day before Guru told Mata that she will be given a son who will reamain till world reamain.That son is Khalsa.Not lower or higher but equal.

So as in Hazur Sahib Das has seen that be it Nihungs or non Nihungs there every person can get baptism.Yes non punjabi local of 'lower 'caste can get baptism with other 'high' born Punjabis,Many of them even become better Gyanis then Punjabi,There is a training establishment been run in Sach Khand Abchal Nagar Hazur Sahib(it is shamefull when some sgpc supporter from Punjab call Hazur Sahib people as propogator of Brahmanism as rather party who is in majority in sgpc is having a tie up with Hinduva forces).

Das salutes Singhs of Hazur Sahib for that.BUT as it happened in Safpur Hastinapur(West UP) ,that sgpc and Sewapanthis hurridly Baptised few hindu Jats into Sikhism but they could not resist Biri Samoking and huqqa smoking and they soon became Patit.Das is not sure but in Bidar also Das did see Sabat Surat Lambaid smoking Biri.May be we was not a Sikh or may be not an Amritdhari.But All Sikhs institutions who carry out Baptism either in Punjab,Delhi ,Bihar or Nandeed (Mahrshtra) must make sure that the person about to undergo is strong enough to desist addiction to smoking.

Five beloved one did passed the test by offering there life but what about any person just trying to be Sikh,Say for personal interest.Safguard must be taken in that regard.Das also wants to tell that it is real that five beloved one were real person.The native palces of them are known,caste of there hindu ancestor were known,Three of them were from Sudra varn hindu ancestor.There was a Gurudwara in Gujrat,which will be renovated soon comemrating the one of three,who was from Gujrat.They did take Amrit and they did give KhandeDhar Pahul to Guru so was Guru Ape Guru Chela(As per Bhai Gurdas).

So that thing is not in Nihungs of Majha either.Das had known some one from them.

Coming to Budh Dal,One of its Jathedar ,who was first Badshah of Sikhs,Sultan ul qaum ,Jassa Singh Ahluwal was having a sudra ancestors as Kalal(in Bihar hindu Kalal are there,Kalal make alchohal).He was nurutrured in Delhi by no one else but Mother(s) of Sikhs(wife of Tenth Guru).He was then brought back in Punjab by Nawab Kapur Singh(his ancestors were Virk or Solanki Jats) and Mother of Jassa Singh was sister of Faith of Nawab Kapur Singh.He was eating food in the house of Maternal uncle of Jassa Singh,Perhaps he first met Jassa Singh/his mother or Jassa Singh was given into his care.

Legend in Nihungs is that as Jassa Singh Ahluwal use to speak hindi so Punjabi speaking Sikhs use to make fun of him.so he went to Jathedar of Panth Nawab Kapur Singh and complained him.Nawab Said,Dear Jassa Singh ! Singh are Ladli Fauj(petsered Army) of Guru ,If they make fun of you consider your self fortunate,Have servitude in them,They have made me Nawab,They may make you Badshah!

This did happen.Just for today to tell whole of the world that Jathedar of Budhadal had sudra Kalal acestors he made a coin with inscription in farsi

Sikkh Yafat Dar Jahan Ba Fazl e Akal

coin obtained in world with Mercy of Akal

Ahamad Mulk Girafte Jassa Kalal

Ahamd Shah Abdali Kingdom holding Jassa Kalal

or Ahmad is name of Mustfa annexxing (who had

So Muslim rule is called humble

Nijam e mustafa Linage of Kalal)

This can mean

Muslim rule

So it was Budha Dal who made Sudra as King of Sikhs.Even in Muslim rule same thing did not happen in India.

So in India's Budha dal,Person from those families who are half hindu/half Sikh and had tendency to use tobbaco(Das's Father and 3 elder brother use tobbaco so das does not share food with them or even with his rest of hindu family).Sikhs with Jats ancestors are totaly Sikh family(at present in then also there are many Patita and smokers).So with total Sikh family Amrit Sanskar is differnt from one ,on whom there is still a doubt of smoking.Das wants to tell you there are many people in India ,who use the garb of Nihung just for personal use like using free railways.It is expected from them that they may smoke in secrate.

But then again in budhdal only these people have a probation period. Once it is find oout that they are fully Sikh and moving for higher esteems of sprituality they are broghout in main fold.There children or them are baptied as per other Sikhs.

Baba Nidder Singh Ji Called them reaching at the sate of Brahm Gyan.Sahin NarSingha can confirm it.

But in UK,there Nihungs of Budhadal are least bothered about caste.Das has shared food with them.Das as per Manu Samriti is below Sudra because mother of Das is from Khatri Family and father from lowest of Vaishyas.So due to Partiloan Vivah Das is by Birth Pancham Varna lower then sudra.But BudhDal of UK so far has neve descriminated Das for that.

Be it education of Martial art or be it food.

Lastly das want to put forward a point that he discussed about quistion you raised,With Jathedar of UK. In future other Safe guard can be taken regarding not going to spoil the body of Amrit Dhari by using tobacco and people from any family backgraound BA FAZL E AKAL soon be taking Amrit Togather.

Das has just come accross a case where an Afghan lady wants to marry a boy ,whose father are Sikhs.So in our Case say in Nirmala we can convert them.Das think that Nihungs also may do the same.

Das seeks guidance of all for the future.

(as per Sau Sakhi,in future in The Army of Guru ie Khalsa,There will be many Persons from Muslims,Europian(so Called White),Mongol or may Be African(So Called Black) anscestors.Time now for Nihungs is to be ready to welcome them . Das thing using term of race or colouer is agaisnt the princeple of Gurmat so he never use term Gora or Kala).

Forgive das if wrong is written.

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Guest Sardar Moderator Singh

Veer Vijaydeep Singh,

Gur Fateh Parvaan Hove!

Thanks for your lengthy reply. I am familiar with this claim that "Mazbhi" people are more inclined to use tobacco as I too have been told this by the UK Buddha Nihangs.

I have also shared food with the UK Nihangs, however this doesn't prove anything. Many of them have spoken freely about how they consider Jatts as superior to all, this doesn’t prove anything either, as I have spoken many Ramgharia and Khatri Nihangs who feel otherwise!

In short, this is not a discussion concerning what get's practised in the Buddha Dal UK. It is simply concerning those practices supported by the Buddha Dal as a whole, which Narsingha Veer has stated on this forum elsewhere are supported by Baba Santa Singh as well, and giving Amrit on a caste by caste basis is one of them, likewise is the existence of the Chatha Paur.

This notion that Mazbhis are more inclined to use tobacco is flawed, given the level of apostasy also evident and found amongst the Jatts the world over, be it in India, UK, Canada or the US.

It is well known for Jatts to become Monae, Drink and smoke as well, so the argument that Jatts who have Sikh ancestors will not sucumb to such activities is misfounded and the evidence of this can been all over.

If one is going to make generalisations (i.e. Mazabis are more inclined to have relatives who smoke or as generally put, have a "rehni-behni" that is different), these should be applied across the board.

By such logic, one could say that predominantly only Khatri Families and Ramgharia Families amongst the Sikhs tend to be Keshadhari and practising in terms of scriptural recitation, whilst most Jatts tend to be monae (and hence heavy drinkers and on occasion users of tobacco) or Singhs in later life. Lately over the past 20 years, one could say that the Ramgharia Youth, particularly in the UK, Kenya and Canada, tend to succumb to trimming and shaving their beards, whilst still retaining their dastaars.

Following such logic, surely the Jatts too should be ‘carved’ out into a Chautha Paur? Do we see this? No, instead, we do see the SEPARATE Nihang Dal of Akali Nihang Baba Bawa Singh, who is a Ranghreta Sikh (i.e. Mazbhi) and notions such as a transgressing Jat Nihangs being given hukam to join the Chautha Paur (i.e. with the Mazbhis) for langar as part of their Pesh.

There is nothing more to this than out and out caste-related behaviour with regard to the Mazbhis. The Buddha Dal may be headed by an Arora Khatri, however it is largely a Jatt institution. The episode concerning Jassa Singh Kalal is also misfounded, since Jats are also Shudras like Kalals too. Jassa Singh was raised by Mata Jee and naturally was destined to high authority, besides, as is witnessed today relationships between Jats and Alhuwalias are not too different, albeit that latter have tried to engage with Ramgharias in East Africa and with Khatris elsewhere, with limited success.

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Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

you are correct brother!

And for that das did talk to the Jathedar of UK Budhadal.

by mercy of Akal you will see that they may also act like Nihungs of Majha or Deccan or say like the one who are non Punjabis(there are of influence is just around the trijunction of Haryana,UP and Rajasthan border Main area been near Palwal).So may be in future this Castism will be removed from them.

In non Punjabi Sikhs,There are no generally castes.So in hindi speaking,When we come accroos any Punjabi speaking Sardar ,who ask us our Caste,We say Khalsa.

We furhter say this person could be Punjabi Sikh as there some of them are yet to get out of Pagan Ritual.

Regarding Jats.It is only people like Prof. Gurmukh Singh has told Sikhs that Jats are Sudras(this means that by his time castism was weak so that jat could not tell exactly which exactly has been thier varna(in Punjab))

But in hindi speaking India,Jat are farmer hence Vaishyas but lower then Baniyas.

Order as follows

Vanik Vaishya (Baniya,Aggarwal,Oswal etc.)

Krishak Vaishya(Jat and often as per Iskon Yadavs also)

Ghanik Vaishyas(Telis caste of Das's father).

So as per caste hyarchy neither Jats are Rajpoots nor Sudras.

Only when some of then became King any people who do pestering statred to sanskritise them by calling them rajpoots or Kshteryas.

das here also want to bring a grave point.

In Haryan due to the feud between Jats and Jangirh Brahmans(plus support of real Brahmins).Arya Samaj is in shamble.Jangirh Brahman is what usualy do work of Karpainter.

Arya Samaj did no abolish caste so it is merging back to before Arya Samaj time order.

If we abolish caste,then will Panth survive.

Hindu people(off course not RSS) have already started this mission started by Savarker.

Das is sorry if wrong is written and your writing is eye opener.We will do our level best to undo Pagan ritual's enterance into our faith.

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