Sikh_Soulja Posted May 26, 2003 Report Share Posted May 26, 2003 WJKK WJKF Guru Gobind Singh Ji askd for 5 heads.Guru Ji did not alienate anyone by askin by certain sex or caste or wealth.Guru Ji askd for any human being.Yet only males stood up.taking into consideration that the panj piyare were of different castes and welath but they were the same sex-male.why is this? Shudn't a female have stood up to represent equality? Sikhism is about equality yet the panj piyare are all males. Please somebody educate me on this issue. WJKK WJKF ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- moderator note: This message is for all. Now if you want to discuss this then you must provide references as personal comments and opinion will be deleted without any notice. Reference/s (e.g., a web site, book, magazine, journal etc.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kaur1699 Posted May 26, 2003 Report Share Posted May 26, 2003 Fateh Ji... Shudn't a female have stood up to represent equality? The way I see it is, that at the time only men offered their heads. In reference to equality, there has never been/or is anything to stop a female representing the Panj Piyare. When Guru Ji asked for a head, it was answerd by people who were ready to offer it, at that time and place a female did not respond thus no female representative of the Panj Piyare at that time... Fateh Ji Phul chuk maf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaur @ gurus feet Posted May 27, 2003 Report Share Posted May 27, 2003 wjkk,wjkf although it is rare & prehaps shouldn't be, there are / have been a few women who have stood in for the seva of paanj piaarai; though they are few & far between. remember the ppl doing this seva are a representation of the paanj piaarai, not the paanj piaarai themselves. bhul chuk maaf wjkk,wjkf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 27, 2003 Report Share Posted May 27, 2003 kaur @ gurus feet is right, there have been bibiya who do panj pyare di seva - it would be nice to see more bibiya doin this seva tho :cry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishpinder.K.Jagpal Posted June 1, 2003 Report Share Posted June 1, 2003 it is wrong for a female to stand up as being one of the panj pyiare... why?? because at the time the khalsa was created, when Guru Ji called for 5 heads, only 5 men came out from the crowd, and from then ONLY men can have the seva of being one of the panj pyiare. if u say why aint a female one, well then why didnt a female stand up from the crowd when Guru Ji asked for A head, He did not state He wanted 5 heads which are men! yeah, sikhi is all about eqaulity, but when it comes to certain things like this, equality is still in existance... but u cant change the past! personally i condemn the idea of a female doing the seva of a panj pyiara! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amrikingh Posted June 1, 2003 Report Share Posted June 1, 2003 guru ji asked for a head of a "SIKH" NOT A HEAD FROM JUST A "MAN" and not a woman Guru ji wouldn't have said to a woman standin up "ohh sit down your not a man", lolzz grow up ppl, erm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishpinder.K.Jagpal Posted June 1, 2003 Report Share Posted June 1, 2003 paji, Guru Ji did not ask for a head of a Sikh, if u read my post properly, u would have read "when Guru Ji called for 5 heads, only 5 men came out from the crowd, and from then ONLY men can have the seva of being one of the panj pyiare." if 2 women and 3 men stood up, that would have been the five beloved ones today - where we would see 2 females and 3 males. grow up?? come on... i aint the one that needs growing up, think its u mate cause u daint read my post properly!! :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amrikingh Posted June 1, 2003 Report Share Posted June 1, 2003 damn :x sorry about that veer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishpinder.K.Jagpal Posted June 1, 2003 Report Share Posted June 1, 2003 im a penji :x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_Singh_but_cant_Sing Posted June 1, 2003 Report Share Posted June 1, 2003 Shanti shanti!! Take it easy ppl and calm down. Breath in and breath out! There is no discrimination of the sexes, men and women have equal rights to do any seva. I dont think that there would be a problem if a woman did the seva of being one of the punj piare. It is all about a person's Jeevan. Talking about punj piare, how are they chosen? :?: Fateh Ji Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GABROO KHALISTAN DAH Posted June 1, 2003 Report Share Posted June 1, 2003 is'nt sex irrelivant when ur khalsa, ur not a male kahlsa or a female khalsa, but just a khalsa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishpinder.K.Jagpal Posted June 1, 2003 Report Share Posted June 1, 2003 lol... im breathing man, and alwayz calm true men and women have the right to do any types of seva i aint sayin they aint, BUT when it comes to the panj pyiare it HAS to be 5 males, for the reason that i have stated, GABROO KHALISTAN DAH; sex aint relevant, sikhis all about equality... plz dont make me repeat my self about the panj pyiare issue... well for those who dont understand, heres a small summary... U CANT HAVE A FEMALE AS A PANJ PYIARA AS ONE DID NOT OFFER HER HEAD WHEN GURU JI CALLED FOR 'A' HEAD!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaaM Posted June 1, 2003 Report Share Posted June 1, 2003 U CANT HAVE A FEMALE AS A PANJ PYIARA AS ONE DID NOT OFFER HER HEAD WHEN GURU JI CALLED FOR 'A' HEAD!! Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh Ok, thats an interesting thing that you have said, although I dont personally agree with what you are saying, I would just like to ask, what about the times when females have represented the Panj Piare, does this mean that any ceremony that they may have taken part in is not valid?? Does this undermine the power of the Amrit prepared by Panj Piare that had a female taking part?? I always been informed that the people who truly offered their head to Guru Ji, people whose soul is with God, people who are at one with God; these are the people who represent the Panj Piare, and in all this does it really matter whether the individual is male or female?? Phul Chuk Maaf Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishpinder.K.Jagpal Posted June 2, 2003 Report Share Posted June 2, 2003 i have neva heard of a female being a panj pyiara until i read these posts, i would neva dream to see a female doing this seva... but i suppose times have changed, women want thier rights, people want to do the things THEY prefer... a matter of 'pick 'n' mix', chose the things they want - then disregard the rest... sikhi is not this case, we are told wats right and wrong, Maharaj Ji is there to guide us - all we can do is follow, we cant hear the things we want to hear and be deaf to evrything else!... man... there must be someone else out there that agrees with me, or am i the only one who is living in the 'dark ages' where women have no right... yeah times have changed, but does that mean those that wear dastars can take them off and replace them with bandanas to 'fit in' with this society or do 2 bania in the morning instead of the 5 to 'fit in' with our busy schedules, we cant change on wats been done, hence, we cant change the fact that 5 men stood up rather than 5 women, and try to fit this in with todays 'womens rights' i aint no one to judge, and no one to say whether an amrit sanchar is void if undertaken by a female, but ill try get some more info on this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GABROO KHALISTAN DAH Posted June 2, 2003 Report Share Posted June 2, 2003 but panji ishpinder kaur, if sex is not relevant then it should'nt matter if men or women stood up in 1699? i'm not trying to make ur reapeat ur self, but fact is fact..khalsa is khalsa, woman man child burda..........so as long as they have the true amrit, bani and bana, they are khalsa, sex has zipo 2 do with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaaM Posted June 2, 2003 Report Share Posted June 2, 2003 but panji ishpinder kaur, if sex is not relevant then it should'nt matter if men or women stood up in 1699? i'm not trying to make ur reapeat ur self, but fact is fact..khalsa is khalsa, woman man child burda..........so as long as they have the true amrit, bani and bana, they are khalsa, sex has zipo 2 do with it Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh Haanji, I agree with GABROO KHALISTAN DAH here. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 2, 2003 Report Share Posted June 2, 2003 fateh ji - i just had a discussion about this with my mom .. and she agrees with ishpinder kaur strongly.... she states that women did not give their heads on the first vaisaki , so no other woman can take this role... women have all equality for them. they can do raul at the gurdwara - do akhand paath - guru maharaj di seva but they cannot become one of the panj piayre.... fateh ji Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr §ingh Posted June 2, 2003 Report Share Posted June 2, 2003 it is wrong for a female to stand up as being one of the panj pyiare... why?? because at the time the khalsa was created, when Guru Ji called for 5 heads, only 5 men came out from the crowd, and from then ONLY men can have the seva of being one of the panj pyiare. if u say why aint a female one, well then why didnt a female stand up from the crowd when Guru Ji asked for A head, He did not state He wanted 5 heads which are men! yeah, sikhi is all about eqaulity, but when it comes to certain things like this, equality is still in existance... but u cant change the past! personally i condemn the idea of a female doing the seva of a panj pyiara! fateh ji - i just had a discussion about this with my mom .. and she agrees with ishpinder kaur strongly.... she states that women did not give their heads on the first vaisaki , so no other woman can take this role... women have all equality for them. they can do raul at the gurdwara - do akhand paath - guru maharaj di seva but they cannot become one of the panj piayre.... fateh ji CAN*T BELIVE U EVEN think like that :S :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: SIKHS BELIVE IN EQUILITY AND THAT'S NO EQUILITY @ ALL!!!! EVEN IN THE SIKH REHAT MARYADA IT CLEARLY STATES THAT WOMAN HAVE EQUAL RIGHTS..AND -> ANY1 <- IN REHAT NO MATTER WHICH SEX.. IS ALLOWED TO BE A PART OF PANJ PYAARE... IN MY EYES IT IS OBVIOUS..THAT IF A MAN MAY DO SOMETHIN..THEN A WOMAN MAY ASWELL ...THATS WHAT EQUILITY MEANS!!!! BUT HEY i'M NOT THE JUDJE OR N E THING.. THE SIKH REHAT MARYADA..STATS THAT A WOMAN HAS THE RIGHT TO AMRIT SHAKANA.. AND THAT OBVIOUS //BHULLA CHUKKA MAAF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 2, 2003 Report Share Posted June 2, 2003 its been recorded in a sant jarnail singh bhindrawales speach that he said... in vaisaki 1699 women had the chance to take this equality, when shri guru gobind singh ji maharaj asked for a head he asked for ANY head... thats true...however by not steppin up to give their heads, they gave away their equality and chance to be one of the pyare... they can do any other role - but not this one in my opinion i dont really see nothing wrong with a woman being part of the panj pyare as it is for equality - however.. my mom n dad are very strongly against a woman being one of the panj pyare... backed up with the fact that bhindrawale also said it in his speach.. and im sure that there has also been other debates over this matter... it does kinda bring accross a trend rather then one persons opinion :? :? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GABROO KHALISTAN DAH Posted June 2, 2003 Report Share Posted June 2, 2003 sant ji had a reason for saying that steel bangel, because not all of his faujis where amridharis sikhs, some where just there for their love for sikhi, and khalistan, and he had to protefct them from the pervert eye, so he kept women away by saying that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 2, 2003 Report Share Posted June 2, 2003 sant ji had a reason for saying that steel bangel, because not all of his faujis where amridharis sikhs, some where just there for their love for sikhi, and khalistan, and he had to protefct them from the pervert eye, so he kept women away by saying that fateh bruv - i dont really understand that - can u elaborate please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GABROO KHALISTAN DAH Posted June 2, 2003 Report Share Posted June 2, 2003 waheuguru paji, we know that without amrit, ppll like my self, can twist and contort theri vision, look and women in lustfull manner, and sometimes not control it, even tho these ppl where good at heart, these thinsg would come out, and 2 keep these problems away, sant ji would advice against women, that being the only reason, so the shaheeds would'nt be tempted or ne thing, and same for the women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gupt Singh Posted June 2, 2003 Report Share Posted June 2, 2003 ever thought that women look at men in "that" way aswell? of course women can be in the panj pyare. look. there werent any white or black people in the original panj. does that mean there cant be a white or black panj today? of course not. it was gurus hukam that 5 men came up and they were predestined, but women can still be in the panj!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amrikingh Posted June 2, 2003 Report Share Posted June 2, 2003 im a penji :x deos it really matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishpinder.K.Jagpal Posted June 2, 2003 Report Share Posted June 2, 2003 :evil: of course it matters amrik singh!!! :evil: woww... i cant believe someone actually agrees with me... steel bangles mom and dad, hey amayb u should ask them to join this forum!! khalsa soulja u said "look. there werent any white or black people in the original panj. does that mean there cant be a white or black panj today? of course not. it was gurus hukam that 5 men came up and they were predestined, but women can still be in the panj!!!!!" true there were no black or white people who were part of being the panj pyiare, but they were all of different castes (at that time the caste issue was a BIG deal in those times) but Guru Ji did not say "no we dont want u cause u are a so and so", he took ANYONE that was brave enuf to stand up to His demands! paji, it was not Guru Jis hukam that 5 men come up from the crowd, he asked for 'A' head not 'a head of a man'. mr singh u said "THE SIKH REHAT MARYADA..STATS THAT A WOMAN HAS THE RIGHT TO AMRIT SHAKANA.." yeah thats right a woman does have a right to amrit shakana i.e take amrit, BUT not give amrit as stated Sant Ji has also said that a woman cannot do the seva of being a panj pyiara, but yes, she can do all other types of seva! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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