akaali Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 Everyone knows about Bhai Balbir Singh and Ragi Avtaar Singh Sehmbi, but are there any others? Are these the only ragis that do kirtan in raag? If not where can I get some recordings. Thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHANBABANANAK Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 bhia nirmal singh is very good 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted May 29, 2006 Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 Professor Kartar Singh Ji Dr Gurnaam Singh Ji Professor Surinder Singh Ji See http://www.rajacademy.com 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simrun255 Posted May 29, 2006 Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 dharam singh zakhimi and his brother i think his bros name is amrik, he uses vaja though not tanti saaj 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simrun255 Posted May 29, 2006 Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 professor dharshan singh also, 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chhinderpalsingh Posted February 10, 2007 Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 There are many more respected Keertniyas, who perform keertan in puratan style as well as in the raags prescribed in Honourable Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. One of them: Bhai Narinder Singh ji Banaras, Hazoori Raagi Harimandir Sahibji. More u can download at: Gurmatsangeetproject.com It is a greatest site, doing sewa. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted February 10, 2007 Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 Dear Veer Chinderpal Singh Ji, With all due respect, what is the difference between Puratan Style and kirtan as per Guru Ji's kirtan maryada - Nirdaareth Raag? As far as I was aware they were one and the same? Of all the contentious issues existing in the panth and it's many faces today, kirtan maryada is one, that no one can pull apart - for it forms the basis/spine of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Each shabad (par the begining and end of Maharaj) has Guru Ji's kirtan presentation authority stamped and authorised - RAAMKALI - Mahala 3. It can not be any clearer than that. We have other kirtan maryada rules i.e. ghar (guest microtone), partaal (variable rythm), poetic style, south indian style, folk style etc... You say there are many raagi, there probably are, but there are only a handful of raagi that do not bend to sangat trends, and strictly ardhere to only "TITLE" raag. There is no honour in presenting Guru Ji's shabad whic is meant to be in Sri (serious, truth invoking emotion) in any other emotion, it takes away the essence, the voice, the tone of Guru Ji's voice, even thought the words are still there. There are many different ways and interpretations of expressing one word. Vaheguru 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelari Posted February 10, 2007 Report Share Posted February 10, 2007 www.keertan.org 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chhinderpalsingh Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 Respected Shaheediyaan Veerji, I request u to kindly read my post again. Nowhere, I mentioned that there are two Sangeet Maryadas in recital of Gurbani. It is universal truth that there is unique Gurmat Sangeet Maryada. The meaning of my particular sentence was that some raagis recite Keertan in Puratan Maryada i.e. Gurbani Sangeet Maryada coming seena-b-seena (pusht-dar-pusht) from the ages of Honourable Guruji. But on the other hand some raagis perform keertan in particular Raagas mentioned in the particular Shabad. Here raaga means as per pure Hindustani padhti, but not Gurmat Sangeet Padhti, which is very much different than the Hindustan Padhti w.r.t. each * every raaga. Jawaddi Kalan Taksal & other eminent persons/raagis such as Dr. Gurnam Singh, Bibi Jasbir Kaur are already doing a great service in bringing out this particular difference. I hope, my brother would have known my point of view. However, if daas is wrong, it will be so kind of u to point out it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted March 3, 2007 Report Share Posted March 3, 2007 Pyare veer Chinderpal Singh Ji, I think I know what you mean. What I was saying is that Gurmat Sangeet is exactly that - Gurmat - Guru Ji's mat - hukum, which tells us to follow the hukum of the shabad and perform in the ordained raag. I think what yo are refering to is Indian Classical renditions. Truth is that people who have the sharda to perform in Nirdaareth Raag, will 9/10 times also have the sharda to to appropriate kirtan - Gurmat Kirtan. This means not having long alaaps, singing sur, non use of rahao as core, using the said folk style and ghar (microtone) and partaal if instructed. Raagis who don't follow Guru's shabad raag hukum are usually the ones who are extravagent and bring in either Indian Classical or modern filmi angles into the kirtan. Gurbani kirtan usually has 2 important elements, the raag the folk style, which both should be adhered to, most shabad are inclined towards Drupad rendition, with others more towards folk i.e. Asa/Kaanada raag. The biggest single factor in "Puratan Kirtan Maryada" is Nirdaareth Raag, but this became unpopular with the rise of media, radio, cinema, microphones, baja (1 week course and you are a kirtani, as opposed to the effort and commitment needed for tanti saaj and raag) and of course as you say, Indian Classical Music. Many people confuse Indian Classical with Puratan Kirtan, they couldn't be more wrong. Indian classical has had just as much devastating impact on kirtan as filmi music. In fact Indian classical trained raagis are the ones who having learnt so many other raags (outside of Bani), don't stick to Nirdaareth. The last truely puratan Gurmat Sangeet raagis in my opinion were Baba Shaam Singh Ji (Aden Shaahi) and Baba Harnaam Singh Ji. Most modern day legends of today including Bhai Balbir Singh Ji and Bhai Avtaar Singh Ji, although have done immeasurable service and sung many shabad in Nirdaareth Raag, have also sung many in non-hukmi raag, maybe due to financial or social pressure. Dr Gurnaam Singh Ji I believe does sing mostly in hukmi raag. The biggest change happened between the 1920's and 1960's with many famous Sikh personalities who did huge and great seva of the panth, didn't on the other hand adhere to hukmi raag, which may be due to the amount of time that they spent doing seva etc, fair enough, but many "raagi" who lived for kirtan, started mixing raags and bringing in other influences to kirtan also, many great raagis like Bhai Santa Singh Ji, who's voice and sur command was really mind blowing, devotion was deep, but kirtan maryada became flexible... It's a really huge topic, which also goes back to Ranjit Singh's (Maharaja) secular and cultural influence, Mughal influence, influence when Mahant were in charge of Gur Ghar, and of course the great British influence. Sorry, I think I may have gone off the topic somewhat! Bhul Chuk Maaf Karni. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 Pyare veer Chinderpal Singh Ji, I think I know what you mean. What I was saying is that Gurmat Sangeet is exactly that - Gurmat - Guru Ji's mat - hukum, which tells us to follow the hukum of the shabad and perform in the ordained raag. I think what yo are refering to is Indian Classical renditions. Truth is that people who have the sharda to perform in Nirdaareth Raag, will 9/10 times also have the sharda to to appropriate kirtan - Gurmat Kirtan. This means not having long alaaps, singing sur, non use of rahao as core, using the said folk style and ghar (microtone) and partaal if instructed. Raagis who don't follow Guru's shabad raag hukum are usually the ones who are extravagent and bring in either Indian Classical or modern filmi angles into the kirtan. Gurbani kirtan usually has 2 important elements, the raag the folk style, which both should be adhered to, most shabad are inclined towards Drupad rendition, with others more towards folk i.e. Asa/Kaanada raag. The biggest single factor in "Puratan Kirtan Maryada" is Nirdaareth Raag, but this became unpopular with the rise of media, radio, cinema, microphones, baja (1 week course and you are a kirtani, as opposed to the effort and commitment needed for tanti saaj and raag) and of course as you say, Indian Classical Music. Many people confuse Indian Classical with Puratan Kirtan, they couldn't be more wrong. Indian classical has had just as much devastating impact on kirtan as filmi music. In fact Indian classical trained raagis are the ones who having learnt so many other raags (outside of Bani), don't stick to Nirdaareth. The last truely puratan Gurmat Sangeet raagis in my opinion were Baba Shaam Singh Ji (Aden Shaahi) and Baba Harnaam Singh Ji. Most modern day legends of today including Bhai Balbir Singh Ji and Bhai Avtaar Singh Ji, although have done immeasurable service and sung many shabad in Nirdaareth Raag, have also sung many in non-hukmi raag, maybe due to financial or social pressure. Dr Gurnaam Singh Ji I believe does sing mostly in hukmi raag. The biggest change happened between the 1920's and 1960's with many famous Sikh personalities who did huge and great seva of the panth, didn't on the other hand adhere to hukmi raag, which may be due to the amount of time that they spent doing seva etc, fair enough, but many "raagi" who lived for kirtan, started mixing raags and bringing in other influences to kirtan also, many great raagis like Bhai Santa Singh Ji, who's voice and sur command was really mind blowing, devotion was deep, but kirtan maryada became flexible... It's a really huge topic, which also goes back to Ranjit Singh's (Maharaja) secular and cultural influence, Mughal influence, influence when Mahant were in charge of Gur Ghar, and of course the great British influence. Sorry, I think I may have gone off the topic somewhat! Bhul Chuk Maaf Karni. Great post shaahediyan singh ji, please post more of your thoughts regarding this broad topic, create a new topic if you have to but this post creates another debate regarding what exactly can be consider as gurmat sangeet? in my opnion only authentic reetiyas and dhurpad can be counted as gurmat raag sangeet as well not just any hindustani classical raag music. On this note, what you think about bhai baldeep singh ji and bhai avtar singh ji? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 Veer N3O Singh Ji, Yes, puratan reetan should be preserved, but more important is preserving Guru Ji's kirtan maryada and preserving the knowledge. Reetan are most important in terms of the vaaran within Maharaj, 9 out of the 22 vaars have mentions of specific dhunis. In my opinion, this is the most endangered or even already lost element of kirtan. The dhuni's are folk renditions/reetan which were used for many years to retell sories i.e. Gujri ki vaar is to be sung in Sikandar Biraahim ki vaar kee dhuni. I am unsure how many of the 9 dhuni's survive today (par Asa). That aside, enough knowledge exists between people regarding Gurmat Sangeet, ultimately Maharaj over-rides eveyones theories and inherited knowledge. Guru Ji has provided us with a kirtan framework (the structure of Maharaj), which must be adhered to in order to hear Guru Ji's voice (mood, expression in title raag), but within that Guru Ji has also given his Sikhs space for creativity, to composes an infinite number of compositions for the relevant shabads in the set raag. Bhai Avtaar Singh Ji was a legend, I respect him very much. Especially as he had the humulity and sharda to accept the Taus that Professor Surinder Singh Ji gifted to them at such a mature age and start playing it again in order to inspire us new adherents to Guru Ji's gifts. Bhai Sahib was on top of his career when he made this switch, he did not have to, but it takes a lot of courage and wisdom to accept and change a mindset which has been settled for such a long time. I don't see any other raagi/kirtani in such a prominent position making such a big change at the height of their career, from a simple humble request from a younger person. That aside, I know Bhai Sahib had much communication with Namdhari's so am pretty sure much of their knowldge re reetan etc came from their as well as what they had inherited, esp with regards to their publications. Bhai Baldeep Singh Ji I haven't met or really listened to that much, but from what I know they spend a lot of time researching and in their workshop building designer saaj! They have also done a great service in promoting aspects of Gurmat Sangeet and Guru Ji's saaj, esp the Jori, whic was invented by Guru Arjun Dev Ji (they split the Punjabi Pakavaj in half), in order to provide a more powerful and versatile drum (so it could reach a much larger sangat), the tabla is a recent invention, tailored to suit audio recording and radio in the early 1900's. They are also adherents of the drupad style. Don't foget that Guru Gobind Singh Ji invented the Kayal style, the first historical reference to Kayal is in the Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji, this style is very different to Drupad, it is not restricted and very versatile, to go with said bani. Newer styles like tumri etc are derived from Kayal, but have a different use i.e. romantic/sensual, in people terms, rather than spiritual terms. Tumri was invented for and used in Mughal darbaars and cotiaan. I see many kirtani using tumri in Guru Ghar, but it clearly does not belong there, music is the highest art form, and one which has a powerful impact on the mind, which is why our Masters utilised it to support shabad propogation. This topic can go on for ever, so I'll stop for now.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystical Posted March 9, 2007 Report Share Posted March 9, 2007 http://sikhsangeet.com/ When your trying to download the shabad's on this website use Internet Explorer. If you like using FireFox downloading Shabad's with FireFox doesnt work. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted March 10, 2007 Report Share Posted March 10, 2007 RUPZ Ji, with all due respect Gurmat Sangat is being discussed here, which differs from mainstream kirtan. Here are more relevant examples of Hukmi kirtan: http://www.mediamax.com/satnaam/Hosted/gurmukhs/raag_ratan Vaheguru 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 10, 2007 Report Share Posted March 10, 2007 Shaheediyan ji, thats a nice kirtan in raagas, downloaded all of them from the link you provided, could you tell me who are raagi doing the kirtan? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted March 11, 2007 Report Share Posted March 11, 2007 N3O Ji, I'm not sure Who the raagi is veer ji, I just came across this recently, I think it is a recent recording from the Raag Ratan (Basant?) at Darbaar Sahib. If you can get hold of the programme, it will reveals the Raagi's names. Veer Ji, I'm not so great at IT, could you tell me how to download it please? Vaheguru 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 i have download ed t=one shabd, its brill, but its downloaded in m3u format. can i rip this to cd? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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