What is the death of Guru's Shabad?

[Balbir Singh]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear all!

For Sikhs Shabad is the Guru.

Should a Sikh be worried because Shabad may die one day.

Can some please explain this?

"gur kai sabad marai man maaray ha-umai jaa-ay samaa-i-aa." SGGS Ang 1068-8

Balbir Singh

[gsingh00]

the word shabad should be spelled SABAD(I)........there is a siharee on the dadaa

Not that i agree with using viakaran every time, but when you put a siharee on the dadaa of shabad it makes the word sabad mean 'through the shabad'

so to me, this tuk would mean...

When one dies through the shabad, he kills his mind (man jeetai jag jeet), he loses his houmai, and is absorbed into god (nanak leen bhayo gobind sio, joi paanee sang paanee).

can i ask you a question, I've been watching your posts for a while now, and it seems that you have a problem with accepting guru granth sahib jee as guru, is this true?

[Balbir Singh]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear all and Gurpreet Singh Jee!

Quote "so to me, this tuk would mean... When one dies through the shabad, he kills his mind (man jeetai jag jeet), he loses his houmai, and is absorbed into god (nanak leen bhayo gobind sio, joi paanee sang paanee)."

I am not sure if this translation is correct.

In my view, the word Shabad written with siharee does not mean 'through the shabad'. I found another Vaak from Gurdev.

"sabad marai taa sabh kichh soojhai an-din ayko jaanai." SGGS Ang 1234-9

When Shabad dies then everything is resolved. Day and night ONE becomes known.

How can one resolve everything and comes to know ONE when he is dead through Shabad? Shabad does not mean ego either.

Quote "can i ask you a question, I've been watching your posts for a while now, and it seems that you have a problem with accepting guru granth sahib jee as guru, is this true?"

I love and respect my Guru above all. I do not have any problem with Him either. It is the wondrous experience When Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee explains.

The guru is never happy with those who have not understood Him.

It is strange when people translate Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee false.

Balbir Singh

[gsingh00]

"sabad marai taa sabh kichh soojhai an-din ayko jaanai." SGGS Ang 1234-9

once again sabad has a siharee on the dadaa....so once again it means

when one dies through the shabad

once again i want to say, gurbani is not limited to viakaran, but without viakaran u get false translations.

dying through the shabad, to me, means to lose false desires and ego through the shabad

ok, let me ask you, how can shabad die?

'vaahu vaahu, bani niranakaar hai' how can nirankaar ever die?

[Balbir Singh]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear all and Gurpreet Singh Jee!

Quote "once again sabad has a siharee on the dadaa....so once again it means . . . when one dies through the shabad . . . once again i want to say, gurbani is not limited to viakaran, but without viakaran u get false translations . . . dying through the shabad, to me, means to lose false desires and ego through the shabad."

Word 'Sabadi' occurs more than nine hundred times in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee. Not even once it says 'through the Shabad' or ego.

Quote "ok, let me ask you, how can shabad die?

'vaahu vaahu, bani niranakaar hai' how can nirankaar ever die?"

This sounds like a riddle. Gurdev says God is everything. God is Nirguna. God is Sarguna also. All that we perceive is Sarguna God and changing every moment. The language says it is dying. Does God in Nirguna Saroop also dies with? The borrowed answer is no.

Gurus have experienced the Shabad also dying. They have also experienced God as eternal.

Should we long for the true experience or should we change the meaning of Guru's experience according to our limitations?

How can we realize God's Grace since grace of false preachers is showering on us? This is also God's Will.

Balbir Singh

[gsingh00]

please explain to me how sabad(i) does not mean 'through the shabad'

please explain why there i siharee on the end of shabad, and what this is meant to mean.

Guru sahib used viakaran in bani for a reason, it gives you the most basic meanings of the shabad. By completely ignoring it, you are just showing your ignorance of viakaran.

Even if you listen to peoples katha that do much deeper arth of bani, they still begin at the most basic arth, or the arth given by viakaran.

Also, once again I ask you, how can the shabad die? Please explain this instead of going around in circles.

[Balbir Singh]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear all and Gurpreet Singh Jee!

I appreciate your curiosity and eager to know the Truth.

The Guru's Vaaks are full of wisdom. The Saadhak realizes those differently with the growth of conscious mind.

We realize thoughts in pictures and sound form. Thoughts are moving photos and sounds. These sounds do not allow us to realize silence. All sounds are Shabads. The Naam Shabad from the Guru and its impact is different. It penetrates the shield of sounds in mind and leads us to silence. This silence is the origin of all sounds. The direction of sound waves originated from the silence is different from the direction of the sound waves originated from the Guru's mouth that leads us to the origin. All sounds are gone when we merge in the source of origin.

The Gurus have sung great verses about the Naam Shabad when it starts working. The Gurus have also sung verses when this Shabad merges into its true origin. The Gurus have sung also about the state after we merge with the Shabad in God again.

The meaning of 'Sabadi', you have mentioned, is also correct. It explains that what one gets through Shabad initially.

These are pure information. We realize Truth by true Naam Simran not by borrowed information.

Love.

Balbir Singh

[gsingh00]

once again i ask you what did you mean when you said 'Gurus have experienced the Shabad also dying.'

It seems from your last post that you think it means that it is the merging into its true origin........in this case it is not the shabad tht has died, it is the persons mind that has died (lost all false desires and ego) through the shabad

[Balbir Singh]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear all and Gurpreet Singh Jee!

Quote "It seems from your last post that you think it means that it is the merging into its true origin."

I do not think. It is so.

Quote " . . . in this case it is not the shabad tht has died, it is the persons mind that has died (lost all false desires and ego) through the shabad."

We realize Mind because of sounds in it. We realize death of mind when no sound (Shabad) is left.

I wish to clear something important here. Also, at the initial stage True Shabad received from the Guru starts working and giving results. It is not that through Shabad one starts reaching results, as some translators have interpreted this. Ego is still alive if someone feels that through Shabad he is achieving goals.

Guru's Shabad after killing all sounds in mind, merges in silence also.

Those who want to know it truly should come to know true Simran. All things are not to discuss anyway.

Balbir Singh.

[SAadmin]

very deep post balbir singh,

Guru's Shabad after killing all sounds in mind, merges in silence also.

not speaking from expereince, but speaking from reading personal expereinces/hearing personal expereinces from sant/bhramgyanis-

Guru's shabad does not die, i think you mention it yourself- merges in silence, i dont think word death(kaal) is approriate to use in context of merging in silence. I would even say even word "merging in silence" is not even approriate to use, not because there is anything wrong with the word itself but people might misinterpret that and think sikhs beleive in mergin in shun.

- For me, merging in silence means merging in nirankar(Nirgun Paratma) since sikh gurmat advait marg doesnt beleive in shun (empy/0/void) being higher supreme reality like buddhism does.

- Reason i feel phrase death is not approriate to use in context guru's shabad because- shabad merges into nirankar upon destruction of whole universe, tats(elements) . Merging into nirankar and annihilation/disappearing into non existence(shun) are two different things.

Shabad cannot die/ merges into silence or merges in nirankar until universe, bhramands, whole creation of vahiguroo exist, because with shabad resonace whole creation is created, resonace exist in vahiguroo's creation:

Pirthame On(g)kar So Dhun Poran Jagat Mae Raha ||

Fist ongkar was recited and that resosance created world and give nourishment to this world. (Siri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, Dasam Granth Sahib)

Ongkar aad kathni anad, Khal Khand Khyal Gurbar Akaal ||

Ongkar Bhrama Utpat ||

Gyani talks about in the katha- bhrama(creator) came from ongkar resosance.

Ongkar Kiya Jin Chit ||

Then bhrama did bhagti on ongkar for thousands of years. After that Nirgun asked him, what do you want? Bhram asked god to give him powers to create the world.

Ongkar Saiyel Jug Paie ||

Ongkar Vaid Nirvaie ||

Guru Nanak Dev Ji said, with ongkar - Nirgun transcedents it's attributes into sargun.

[Dynamic_Banda]

the shabad from my understanding and i state this is my own personal understanding..

is unstruck.. its exists without creation and therefore can not be destroyed or dead..

its both manifest and non manifest and beyond that, so maybe the death is of the manifest resonance yet it is not non existant as it still exists as a non manifest resonance

Ya get me ?

[Balbir Singh]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear N30 Singh Jee and Dynamic_Banda Jee!

Thanks for great Posts. Satsang with people who are well read is different.

No sound or Shabad is destroyed once produced until it merges in total silence. Worlds go on existing because sounds never die.

The sound of the Guru's Shabad works differently. The Guru's Shabad leads us to silence and at the end leaving us too merging into God.

Death is a sort of separation. Shabad, when leaves us merging in God, has done his job. This separation from Shabad may be expressed through the language in many ways.

Often we say that a person has become 'ateet' past when he is dead.

Please listen, what Kabeer Jee and Naamdayva Jee is singing about Shabad.

"pindi moo-ai jee-o kih ghari jaataa."

When body dies, Jeev, to which home goes.

"sabadi ateeti anaahadi raataa." SGGS Ang 327-4 Kabeer Jee

(Similarly) Shabad becomes past merging in the boundary less.

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"sabadi ateet anaahadi raataa aakul kai ghari jaa-ugo." SGGS Ang 973-1.

The past Shabad merges in the boundary less. One would go to the home of Aakul.

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The Gurus often compare the Gurshabad with 'Bohith' (boat) by the Gurus. Just imagine. The boat has reached the shore and is not ready to leave us to the shore.

Balbir Singh