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Modern Sikhi is stylish and decorative?


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Did you ever look at the old pictures of old rich Sikhs? They dressed like royalty with the expensive Indian suits.

I know its not probably a thing to say but I don't think its nice saying Sikhs then "Asikhs" (assuming you mean bad sikhs). Just a thought which I like to make.

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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear all and Rupz Jee!

Quote "Did you ever look at the old pictures of old rich Sikhs? They dressed like royalty with the expensive Indian suits."

I feel no true Sikh is poor. He always wears the royal dress of Naam.

The Sikh is one who has learned true Simran from the true Guru and living doing it. Asikh is one who still has to learn it.

Balbir Singh

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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear all and Rupz Jee!

Quote "Did you ever look at the old pictures of old rich Sikhs? They dressed like royalty with the expensive Indian suits."

I feel no true Sikh is poor. He always wears the royal dress of Naam.

yeah true

The Sikh is one who has learned true Simran from the true Guru and living doing it. Asikh is one who still has to learn it.

Sorry I miss understood but either way your still a learner (Sikh).

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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear all!

A true Sikh is one who receives the Gur (technique) of true Simran. He goes on then living his day and rest of the life doing it. This is what Gurbaanee confirms repeatedly.

Do not waste time but request for the date.

iQiq pwvhu goibd Bjhu sMqh kI isK lyhu ]][/font:3839789693]

"thit paavhu gobid bhajahu santeh kee sikh layho." SGGS Ang 257-7

Get the date. Remember Gobind. Receive teaching of the Saint.

**************

Many people go to a Gurudwara. Still, rarely someone gets the true Simran.

gur kI isK ko ivrlw lyvY ][/font:3839789693]

"gur kee sikh ko virlaa layvai." SGGS Ang 509-13

Teachings of technique, some rare gets it.

--------------

A friend of mine is producing hair fixers. He says smiling. A good Sikh is one who uses his brand of the hair fixer.

Balbir Singh

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good question RUPZ,

why is everything so definitive...doesn't it seem unnatural. It seems like false constructs are being imposed on gurbani. Instead of actively breaking the mind, we are now caught in the time/space/motion triangle.

We make god an other when we translate ik oangkar, and we are constantly fuelled by us not being complete, when in essence, the message indicates we are complete but ignorant. Too much emphasis is being put on extensions of theories which give people something tangible to hold onto in life....ie. techniques of naam simran.

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Veer Balbir Singh Ji:

What is Sikhi?

What is the Gur (technique) of true Simran?

Who invented the word ASikh, and who differentiates between a Sikh and an ASikh? Where is the reference to this in Gurbani?

Can a Sikh not be someone who is searching for Simran, and building up his kamai in order to to recieve Gur-kirpa?

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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear all!

Quote from Rupz Jee "What is the true technique for simran?"

One can get Simran from the Satguru or true Saints. All efforts to talk it are futile.

Quote from Drawof Jee "Too much emphasis is being put on extensions of theories which give people something tangible to hold onto in life....ie. techniques of naam simran."

All the Gurus have talked about Naam Simran. Its experience is tangible because we live at the level of senses. Naam Simran then leads on beyond it.

Quote from Shaheediyan Jee "What is Sikhi?"

Sikhi is receiving true Naam, doing Simran of it that helps recognizing God's Hukam in all the activities.

Quote "What is the Gur (technique) of true Simran?"

Come to know it, Partakh from the Guru.

Quote "Who invented the word ASikh, and who differentiates between a Sikh and an ASikh? Where is the reference to this in Gurbani?"

There is no need to invent a new word for Manmukh. This was a natural flow. The world is full of Manmukhs or Asikhs. True Sikhs are rare.

Quote "Can a Sikh not be someone who is searching for Simran, and building up his kamai in order to to recieve Gur-kirpa?"

Search for Simran is great. Receiving Simran is above all. Building up of Kamai (Punya Karmas) can bring one to heavenly Bhogs, not Mukti.

**************

Many preachers and Baabaas try to convince that their way is more stylish, decorative and better.

I feel Sikhi is like the flame. The Satguru lights it on. One cannot count all the attributes of a flame. Ignorant keeps busy with its style?

Love.

Balbir Singh

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Veer Balbir Singh Ji:

"Sikhi is receiving true Naam, doing Simran of it that helps recognizing God's Hukam in all the activities."

Do you feel the above has become stylish and decorative? If so, how?

There is no need to invent new words like Asikh if what you mean is Manmukh. It is not polite to address an audience (or part of) as Manmukh (be it dressed up). It is for us to understand Gurbani and with his kirpa, identify ourself as Manmukh, that is the 1st step to positive action.

"Search for Simran is great. Receiving Simran is above all."

Simran can be of many things, Naam simran is above all.

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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear all and Shaheediyan Jee!

Quote "Sikhi is receiving true Naam, doing Simran of it that helps recognizing God's Hukam in all the activities.

Do you feel the above has become stylish and decorative? If so, how?"

This Simran, in my observation, is almost lost among Sikhs. Everything else is becoming stylish and decorative that a Sikh is busy with these days. That may be Babaji's Rumaalaas, Men's Dumaalaas or women's Dushaalaas, for example.

Quote "There is no need to invent new words like Asikh if what you mean is Manmukh. It is not polite to address an audience (or part of) as Manmukh (be it dressed up). It is for us to understand Gurbani and with his kirpa, identify ourself as Manmukh, that is the 1st step to positive action."

Identifying oneself as Manmukh is the great first step. Receiving true Naam from the Guru's Mukh is greatest to become true Gurmukh. The Gurus never suggested us to stay at Manmukhta. The Gurus mention a lot about Manmukhs. They remain polite, in my view.

Quote "Simran can be of many things, Naam simran is above all."

I hope some have not only understood it. They want to receive it truly.

Balbir Singh

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Dear Veer Balbir Singh ji:

"The Gurus mention a lot about Manmukhs. They remain polite, in my view."

Guru Sahiban revealed Sat, to mankind, to "us". With all due respect, your address to the some of the forum as manmukh or "ASikh", hardly compares.

"I hope some have not only understood it. They want to receive it truly."

I would have thought it (simran) could only be understood once recieved...

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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear all and Shaheediyan Jee!

Quote "Guru Sahiban revealed Sat, to mankind, to "us". With all due respect, your address to the some of the forum as manmukh or "ASikh", hardly compares."

I do not understand. Why should a Manmukh or Asikh feel uneasy when made aware to get true Simran to become a true Sikh?

Quote "I would have thought it (simran) could only be understood once recieved..."

That is right.

The mind convinces a Manmukh. His mind makes him understand before he has experienced it.

**************

Let us come to the topic.

Somebody gave me a book in Punjabi. It suggests the length, colour, and the stitching of Kachhera a true Sikh should wear.

I wish to ask people who transcend within in meditation. What dress goes with them?

Some experienced wanderers may say something about it.

Balbir Singh

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Dear veer Balbir Singh Ji, do you not wear a Dastaar? If so why, does it transcend within in meditation?

I don't think seeking, acquiring and trying to understand knowledge of our Guru's "ravaaj" (if you will), is going to harm a Sikh, especially if those ravaaj are communicated to the person by the panj pyare (rehit).

Alongside seeking the union of atma and parm-atma, one must also live a gri-h-shti da jeevan. This involves practicalities in all aspects of life.

There is nothing wrong in discovering the benefits behind our Guru's thinking, by way of their jeevan, be it the understanding of kakaar, the bliss of kirtan, the knowledge of war, the peace and enlightenment at amrit-vela, the phall of seva, the responsibilty that comes with Khalsa roop etc.. all these aspects of a Sikh life have a physical presence and need in one way or another, those who learn and make use of those material needs with faith and understanding, do not differentiate, everything is spiritual to them, be it their kachera, their dhumaala, their saaj, their shastar, their shaaster, their pooja (in whatever form), their simran (in whatever form), their method of seva etc... because these tools are used in helping achieve the higher aim, be it indirectly.

You may have seen hanakaari or shakeen Singh etc, but you should not stereo-type everyone who tries to understand and preserve their Guru's culture for self benefit.

"I wish to ask people who transcend within in meditation. What dress goes with them?"

I believe the dress of living a life in their Guru's will, in whichever guise that may be. The experience of naam can only be experienced if he has complete faith in the will of his Guru, living a lifestyle which one believes pleases his Guru makes one closer to his Guru, and thus allows possibilty for him to experience his Guru.

ਹੁਕਮਿ ਰਜਾਈ ਚਲਣਾ ਨਾਨਕ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਨਾਲਿ ॥੧॥

Hukam rajā­ī chalnā Nānak liki­ā nāl. ||1||

O Nanak, it is written that you shall obey the Hukam of His Command, and walk in the Way of His Will. ||1||

What I believe you are trying to discuss here is empty ritual, which does and has always existed. This does not mean all ritual is empty. It would be easier to just speak of the difference between ritual done with love and purpose and that done with pretense or ignorence (naam simran every amritvela, kirtan, seva, NITNEM etc to apply to both the aforementioned).

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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear all!

Quote from DSG Jee "I dont think sikhi has become stylish or decorative , sikhi is what it was 300years + ago , its us people/humans that are changing nothing to do with sikhi."

DSG Jee may be right. Sikhi is Truth. True Sikhi was three hundred years ago also the same. People/humans are changing. Sikhs are also human beings. May I ask if we should better recognize original Sikhi than the modern Sikh?

Quote from Shaheediyan Jee "Dear veer Balbir Singh Ji, do you not wear a Dastaar?

Yes.

Quote "If so why, does it transcend within in meditation?

I am used to it. Nothing from the outlook helps transcending within in meditation.

Quote "I don't think seeking, acquiring and trying to understand knowledge of our Guru's "ravaaj" (if you will), is going to harm a Sikh,"

I feel the same if these 'ravaajs' promise us freedom to transcend those and meet God when the time comes.

Quote "Alongside seeking the union of atma and parm-atma, one must also live a gri-h-shti da jeevan. This involves practicalities in all aspects of life."

Should a person request God to fulfill his gri-h-shti da jeevan repeatedly, also when parm-atma comes for the union with atma?

Quote "There is nothing wrong in discovering the benefits behind our Guru's thinking, by way of their jeevan, be it the understanding of kakaar, the bliss of kirtan, the knowledge of war, the peace and enlightenment at amrit-vela, the phall of seva, the responsibilty that comes with Khalsa roop etc.. all these aspects of a Sikh life have a physical presence and need in one way or another, those who learn and make use of those material needs with faith and understanding, do not differentiate, everything is spiritual to them, be it their kachera, their dhumaala, their saaj, their shastar, their shaaster, their pooja (in whatever form), their simran (in whatever form), their method of seva etc... because these tools are used in helping achieve the higher aim, be it indirectly."

I am sorry to differ from this view. I did not come across one instance where the Gurus have suggested us to imitate them. I found the opposite of this in Gurbaanee.

Quote "I believe the dress of living a life in their Guru's will, in whichever guise that may be."

Gurus also live in God's Will recognizing it.

Quote "The experience of naam can only be experienced if he has complete faith in the will of his Guru, living a lifestyle which one believes pleases his Guru makes one closer to his Guru, and thus allows possibilty for him to experience his Guru."

Not only Naam, The true Guru is also recognized by receiving it.

It has never worked, in my view. One chooses a Guru believing in a lifestyle and the Guru may introduce him one day to God.

Thanks for the wonderful reference from Gurdev "Hukam raja-i chalnaa NAnak likhiaa naal."

May I ask if Guru NAnak Dev Jee is asking us to move according to God's Will or the style of the Guru?

Quote "What I believe you are trying to discuss here is empty ritual, which does and has always existed. This does not mean all ritual is empty. It would be easier to just speak of the difference between ritual done with love and purpose and that done with pretense or ignorence (naam simran every amritvela, kirtan, seva, NITNEM etc to apply to both the aforementioned)."

Ritual is ritual, stereotyped behavior. One may do it in love or for a purpose.

Those, who have received true Naam Simran, know that it is always new (neet navaa) just as Sahib mayraa.

Balbir Singh

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May I ask if we should better recognize original Sikhi than the modern Sikh?

In my personal view , becoming a baptised sikh should not be taken lightly

a person should pratice living the disciplined life , a sikh who lives by this will not even consider being decorative or go to fashion shows etc , that sikh would be humble drowned in naam simran , helping the needy

I cant remember the bhagat ,( sorry for beiing ignorant), who went to sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji and said can i take Amrit , guru ji told him , no you are not ready yet , Guru Ji kept him waiting or shall I say was preparing him for 32 years ) - ps I will find out the name of this Bhagat but if anyone else knows please up2date this thread

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Dear Veer Balbir Singh Ji,

"I am sorry to differ from this view. I did not come across one instance where the Gurus have suggested us to imitate them. I found the opposite of this in Gurbaanee."

&

"Ritual is ritual, stereotyped behavior. One may do it in love or for a purpose. "

Do you not wear a dastaar, have you not taken amrit from panj pyare (my assumption), do you not wake up at amritvela everyday, do you not do ishnaan everyday, do you not naam jap...?

"May I ask if Guru NAnak Dev Jee is asking us to move according to God's Will or the style of the Guru?"

Is Guru's jeevan (style) not Gods will?

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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear all and Shaheediyan Jee!

Every day is new with evolving activities and awareness of God's Will for a true Sikh.

A ritualist wears Dastaar, wakes up at two O'clock, does Isnaan and imitates Guru's suggestions again and over.

**************

I have seen many. They swear to live like the Gurus, wear like the Gurus etc.

Nevertheless, I find Gurdev singing something else.

"jis no saahib vadaa karay so-ee vad jaanee.

jis saahib bhaavai tis bakhas la-ay so saahib man bhaanee.

jay ko os dee rees karay so moorh ajaanee." SGGS Ang 302-7 Guru Ram Das Jee

This is another Vaak from Gurdev.

"gur parsaad sadaa man vasi-aa sabh kaaj savaaranhaaraa.

onaa kee rees karay so viguchai jin har parabh hai rakhvaaraa." SGGS Ang 638-3 Guru Amar Das Jee

In the referred Vaaks 'rees' means imitating.

Strange. Preachers are imitating the Gurus and teaching others how to imitate perfectly.

Can someone refer one example from the Gurus where they suggested anyone to imitate them, please?

Quote "Is Guru's jeevan (style) not Gods will?"

Guru's Jeevan (style) is God's Will.

May I ask when an individual realizes Jeevan as complete God's Will?

Balbir Singh

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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear all and Shaheediyan Jee!

Every day is new with evolving activities and awareness of God's Will for a true Sikh.

A ritualist wears Dastaar, wakes up at two O'clock, does Isnaan and imitates Guru's suggestions again and over.

I think I know where your coming from now. I too feel the same thing but you hear most sikhs theses days say, "Rituals have no place in sikhi" but I feel most sikhs theses days blindly follow them. But Guru Ji says without Naam any Ritual is useless. Guru Ji also says that people perform rituals in egotism but when Naam is within us, there is no space for ego.

So I feel that without Naam any ritual is useless but with Naam, Rituals are like a selfless service (Seva)?

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Veer Balbir Singh Ji,

I think your interpretation and use of the word rees may be inappropriate, having looked at various interpretations, the word indicates when one contests, rather than imitates, although I accept in modern Punjabi it can be used as immitates.

In context of the shabad, contests/challenges makes sense, rather than imitates.

Please explain your understanding of Guru Gobind Singh Ji's words "Khalsa mera roop hai khaas".

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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear all and Shaheediyan Jee!

Quote "In context of the shabad, contests/challenges makes sense, rather than imitates."

I hope nobody is doing rees of (contesting with or imitating) the Gurus.

Quote "Please explain your understanding of Guru Gobind Singh Ji's words 'Khalsa mera roop hai khaas'."

Please provide a reference where Guru Gobind Singh Jee has said so. I will be grateful.

Balbir Singh

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Veer Balbir Singh Ji,

I don't think anyone is challenging Guru Ji, but many try and follow in his immaculate example.

Sri Sarb-loh Granth Sahib Ji:

KHALSA MERO ROOP HAI KHAAS.

The Khalsa is my complete image

KHALSE MAIH HAU KARO NIVAAS.

I dwell in the khalsa

KHALSA MERO MUKH HAI ANG-AA.

Khalsa is my chief organ

KHALSE KE HAU SADH SADH SANG-AA.

I am always with the khalsa

KHALSA MERO MITR SAKHAA-EE

Khalsa is my closest friend

KHALSA MAAT PITAA SUKHDAA-EE

Khalsa is my mother, father & source of all comforts.

KHALSA MERI JAAT AR PAT.

Khalsa is my caste & creed.

KHALSA SAU MAA KAU UTAPAT.

My creation is through the khalsa

KHALSA MERO BHAVAN BHAND-AA-RAA.

I dwell in the khalsa who is a storehouse of all my requirements.

KHALSE KAR MERO SATK-AA-RAA.

I am honoured because of the khalsa.

KHALSA MERO PIND PAR-AAN.

Khalsa is my body & breath.

KHALSA MERI JAAN KI JAAN.

Khalsa is my life & soul

KHALSA MERA SATGUR POOR-AA

Khalsa is my full-fledged Guru.

KHALSA MERA SAJAN SOOR-AA.

Khalsa is my brave friend.

KHALSA MERO BUDH AR GIAAN.

Khalsa is my wisdom & knowledge.

KHALSE KA HAU DHAR-AU DHIAAN.

I always contemplate the khalsa prayerfully

UPMAA KHALSAE JAATH NA KAHI

Eulogy of the khalsa is beyond me.

JIHV-AA EK PAAR NAH LAHI.

I cannot fathom full praise of the khalsa with one tongue.

YA MAI RANCH NA MITHE-AA BHAAKH-EE.

I certify that I have not mis-stated anything in the foregoing.

PAARBRAHM GUR NANAK SAAK-EE.

God & Guru Nanak are my witnesses to endorse the foregoing truth

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