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Sub Gurus of Sikhs?


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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear all!

The present true Guru of Sikhs does not speak. The sub Gurus of Sikhs are not able to convince the intelligent and young generation, in my observation.

I feel there is a communication gap between the curious Sikhs and the sub Gurus on the stages. After the congregations they just disperse.

Do you also feel that they should allow the Sangat to ask openly sub Gurus the questions in Gurudwaras?

Or are you of the opinion that also sub Gurus should not be Dehdhaaree and wiped out?

Please discuss it with open heart?

Balbir Singh

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Yes balbir singh , please clarify further what is defination of sub guru's?

Here is my understanding, sri guru gobind singh ji maharaj all knowner that final guruship will be passed down to sri guru granth sahib ji and give martial/socio texts like sri dasam granth sahib and sri sarbloh granth sahib, all by his blessing started spiritual/scholarly/martial schools(sampardava's) eg- sevapanthi, taksal, nirmale, nihangs, udasi which sikhs back in the time used to get vidya of gurbani, shaastar vidya, shaster vidya which were deciphered from sikh texts, spiritual and oral traditions and given to the students by sants/soldiers/gyanis/bhramgyanis.

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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear all!

I know a school teacher. He visited London with his students in an exchange programme. From many different possibilities he chose to visit the prominent Sikh Gurudwara also. He was excited after his returning home to meet me. He described his visit like he had an adventure with his pupils.

For the first time I heard few impressions about Sikhism from the perspective of a Gora who visited a Gurudwara for the first time.

He found some persons sitting nearest to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee and doing Keertan. They were sitting at the little lower stage than the present Guru of Sikhs but higher than the gathering. His wanted to know the rank specially for the Kathaa Vaachak if he were the sub Guru. He used many interesting terms. We may talk about those another time.

I feel we visit the Guru at Gurudwara not only for Langar but also to listen. The Guru does not speak but his subordinates. Most of us have some questions regarding our spiritual growth and the wisdom of the true Guru's message. These questions but remain because the Baabaa Jee is always in hurry or surrounded by his admirers.

The result is my post on this topic.

Balbir Singh

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It sounds like you're using the term ''sub guru'' to refer to sants and mahapurkhs. IF that's the case, you can speak to them. Usually they meet with people at whoevers home they are staying at. If you can get that person's phone number, you can probably hook up a meeting, if it's in your karma.

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Most of us have some questions regarding our spiritual growth and the wisdom of the true Guru's message. These questions but remain because the Baabaa Jee is always in hurry or surrounded by his admirers.

There is a beautiful thing called- teekas/steekas of sri guru granth sahib ji written by great mahapursh who have anubhavi parkash of gurbani and also have expereinced gurbani on a spiritual/pratical level yet these teekas/steekas are fully ignored by soo called western sikhs who like gyan of gurbani to be spoon-fed to them, these soo called western sikh youths on top of that have a nerve to demand these teekas/steekas to be translate into english for their own comfort level because they have to learn punjabi/gurmukhi. I say even if some chardikalah nishkhami sevadar where to translate steekas/teekas of great anubhavi mahapursh into english for these people, these people will still make up excuses like- i dont like reading or teekas/steekas are little too expensive. People who like others to spoon feed gyan of gurbani to them are not sikhs beecause they are not khoji or learners. They end up creating outrageous posts, threads and claims on forums.

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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear all and Xylitol Jee!

Saints and Brahmgyanis are great and God blessed people. I am not designating them. True Saints or Brahmgyanis do not crave for a post in the management committee, a video film or a basket in front of them for dollars.

**************

Dear N30 S!NGH Jee, I say it from my experience that reading alone does not help. Gurbani is so simple and straight but without true Simran one cannot experience one Vaak of it, what to discuss Teekaas and Sateeks by Mahaapurakhs.

Balbir Singh

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Dear N30 S!NGH Jee, I say it from my experience that reading alone does not help. Gurbani is so simple and straight but without true Simran one cannot experience one Vaak of it, what to discuss Teekaas and Sateeks by Mahaapurakhs.

Balbir singh ji,

who is even claiming that reading alone helps everything?? the fact that japji sahib talks about sunan, manan, nidhasan in its pauriya tell us reading alone (in this case teekas/steekas) doesnt help jiv to get jevan mukhti/vedah mukht avastha.

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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear all!

Many do not like to give them the certificate that they are the Sub Gurus. Perhaps they want such titles for them. Still, some stage artists in Gurudwara are proud to feel the Sub Gurus role.

I am not talking about Saints. They are not found in Gurudwaras anyway. The atmospheres of Gurudwaras are more of the social clubs.

Balbir Singh

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"I am not talking about Saints. They are not found in Gurudwaras anyway. The atmospheres of Gurudwaras are more of the social clubs."

Dear Balbir Singh Ji, where pray then would one find a Sant?

RADHASOAMI dera - Beas perhaps....

Do you consider Gurinder Singh, current Guru of Radhasoamis a Sub Guru, Stage Artist or Sant?

Whilst your insensitvely and offensively generalised statement contains some truth, as a complete fact - it is wrong.

Great souls like Baba Ishar Singh Ji, Baba Nand Singh Ji, Baba Attar Singh Ji, Baba Puran Singh Ji... have blessed millions and with Par-Brahams kirpa brought them to the charan of Satguru - via the same "Social Clubs" you despise.

People like you are the followers of nakli sants, and this is evidenced by you not even having the courage to say who he or they are, and nearly all your topics are nonsensical in any case.

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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear all and Kam1825 Jee!

Quote "stage artists, social clubs? What gurdwara do you go to?"

The choice is big and growing bigger day by day.

Quote "A quick thing there is no such thing as a sub guru?"

A Sub Guru has many responsibilities. He is the subordinate, substitutes or sub assistant of the Guru time to time. A sub Guru feels to have overtaken all the duties of the Guru in His presence as well in His absence. These are few to count.

Saints are not found these days in Gurudwaras because they are on demonstrations. Also, according to news they are very busy in hindering people remembering God's Name.

I hope they have not forgotten their NAM Simran during all these activities.

Balbir Singh

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There is a beautiful thing called- teekas/steekas of sri guru granth sahib ji written by great mahapursh who have anubhavi parkash of gurbani and also have expereinced gurbani on a spiritual/pratical level yet these teekas/steekas are fully ignored by soo called western sikhs who like gyan of gurbani to be spoon-fed to them, these soo called western sikh youths on top of that have a nerve to demand these teekas/steekas to be translate into english for their own comfort level because they have to learn punjabi/gurmukhi. I say even if some chardikalah nishkhami sevadar where to translate steekas/teekas of great anubhavi mahapursh into english for these people, these people will still make up excuses like- i dont like reading or teekas/steekas are little too expensive. People who like others to spoon feed gyan of gurbani to them are not sikhs beecause they are not khoji or learners. They end up creating outrageous posts, threads and claims on forums.

neo , dont knock these people man. Imyself read Japji Sahib in english way before my Panjabi was fluent enough to read it in Panjabi. Im talking years aswell. The thing here is education. i never learnt Panjabi until I was about 16 , wheereas in this country you begin to learn english as young as 4 or 5. However not all peopel are good readers. So again like myself they like to listen to veechars on audio.

In the Guru times, was Sikhi spread mainly Verbaly or Scriptally?

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Balbir Singh can you please name one of the gurdwaras you refer to which are social clubs.

I didnt know Sikhi had Subgurus who take over when Guru Granth Sahib Ji can perform their duties. Does that mean we have a sub god also when god cant do his/her duties?

The saints involved in activities such as the demonstrations have not forgot the name of God. If you had been on one of these demonsrations you would have seen them repeating the name of God and making the sangat repeat the name of God (Waheguru). (Forgot you dont believe in the Waheguru Mantar)

You sure do have a strange concept on Sikhi. Are you sure you follow Sikhism and not some other faith?

You seem confused about other things maybe also this. And stop with all the quoting crap. You just need to address the answer to the person you intend.

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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear all and Kam1825 Jee!

Quote "You sure do have a strange concept on Sikhi. Are you sure you follow Sikhism and not some other faith?"

I feel I am the Sikh of my true Gurus including Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee. Everything in my life is happening as they described it.

I want to ask you the same question. Please let me know with references, any acts you feel you are doing and it is according to the Gurus.

**************

Sub Guru is also one who gives the feel that actual Guru is dumb. That is why he has taken his role.

He also becomes uneasy because of your questions. He does not want to be responsible for any wrong doings. After all he is only Sub Guru.

Balbir Singh

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Quote "I feel I am the Sikh of my true Gurus including Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jee. Everything in my life is happening as they described it"

Balbir Singh how about you name one of the Gurdwaras you go to that you percieve as a social club. i see your Sikhi lets you down when you try to do this. The other thing your Sikhi lets you down is that the True Guru will not even talk to you and guide you and due to this you have turned to your Sub Guru. How do you know what is being said by the true guru when you need some other true guru to explain what is happening. Sort yourself out.

You say you are a sikh but you do not believe in the Waheguru Mantra, you dont show any authority to the writings of Bhai Gurdas Ji and i bet you dont even follow the works of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji in the Sri Dasam Granth and Sarbloh Granth. I bet you are one of these inidividuals that says he follows the words of the Guru but does not believe the Sri Raagmala to be a work of the Gurus

You are not at all a Sikh but a skeptic

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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear all and Kam1825 Jee!

I do not visit the Gurudwara to hear the praise from a sub Guru.

I go through the door (Dwaar), accompany my Guru who leads me into silence and solace.

Those should please come out of Paataal on the surface of earth if they wish to fly in the free sky.

Do not hold God so firmly in your symbols and rituals that HE cannot reach you.

**************

A sub Guru is one who teaches that Gurumantra is Waheguru. All have experienced its truth already though.

A sub Guru is also one who blames others to miss God because they do not follow the sub Guru.

The true Guru throws one back when he tries to follow Him.

Balbir Singh

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"The true Guru throws one back when he tries to follow Him."

Satguru are antarjami and sargun roop of Vaheguru, they are here to lead mankind to realisation and eternal truth, why would they throw back those that follow them, thats the most stupid thing I have heard yet.

Do you not follow Guru Sahibans via their teachings?

How do you think Guru Angad Ji Maharaj got their name?

As for your deviant attempt to attack the use of Vaheguru, maybe explain to us why Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji has started Tav Prasad Savaiye with "Ek Oankaar Vaheguru ji Fateh"?

Lastly, please do pass comment on my Beas dera and Beas Guru questions with the same vigour you seek answers from the rest of us.

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Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear all!

The true Guru sings God is within. The true Guru transfers NAM to the seeker. NAM becomes the Guru and leads one within to his core where God is residing.

The sub Guru asks one to visit the building called Gurudwara, follow him helping in worldly rituals.

The true Guru throws one back to his deep core again when he tries to follow any earthy matter outwards. The sub Guru draws one outwards keeping him engaged in worldly activities and rituals.

***As for your deviant attempt to attack the use of Vaheguru, maybe explain to us why Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji has started Tav Prasad Savaiye with "Ek Oankaar Vaheguru ji Fateh"?***

True NAM received through the true Guru becomes the Sabad Guru that leads one within toward God winning all the obstacles on the way. This is 'Vaheguroo ji ki Fateh'.

'Vaheguroo ji ki Fateh' is not getting enemies in the outer word and then winning them.

What is 'Beas'? Is it without hope?

Balbir Singh

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Balbir Singh you are a Maha Moorakh claiming to be under the influence of strong godly forces who has no respect for the bani of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, the waheguru mantar and ridicule the authority of the Panj piaray. Why do you start the same conversations on other forums as well and answer the questions you start.

All the sangat can see the same thread was started by you on the following link

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-sikhi-s...s-of-sikhs.html

Looks like things in Germany are a bit messed up where you are and there is no one to guide you according to the sikh faith.

If the moderators are reading this then i vote Balbir Singh goes and we bring Dattaswami back. i prefered him on the forum rather than a blind skeptic who is full of himself.

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