Some questions

[tSingh]

This is more Neo, Kam1825 questions...

a) Sant Darbara Singh Ji Loponwale...I know I've heard of Loponwale loads of times, but can't think where. Any ideas Kam about who they are? Here's a link to a related website; http://www.sdsedu.com/sds_history.html and they seem to have a 'Sant Ashram' in wolverhampton, UK.

Whats do you know of Gyani Pinderpal Singh's background?

[gsingh00]

I don't know if Neo or Kam answered your questions yet or not, but what i Know about Gyani Pinderpal Singh is that they originally learned from missionary college. This is interesting because the katha that they do now really doesn't correlate well with missionary mat (eg. they believe it is important to do Sangat or mahapursh, they show lots of respect to puraatan sampardas like Taksal, sevapanthis, Rara Sahib, they quote from Dasam dee bani). I heard one time in Gyani Takhur Singh's katha that Gyani Pinderpal Singh has also done sangat of mahapursh (he didn't say which one) and learned alot from the mahapursh, and has done a lot of bhagti and seva as a result. When Gyani Pinderpl Singh came to Toronto a couple years ago I've been told that they would clean the bhandey used for making langar ever morning before the other gurdwara people would wakeup.

[chatanga]

have heard nuffin about sant ashram in wolverhampton, uk, except that of the Udasi Gobind Das, and they are full of shiite.

[Kam1825]

Gurfateh Tirath, still enjoy the good life in India while we suffer the torrential rainpour in Leicester. Terrible summer.

a) I have heard of Sant Dabara Singh a long time ago. They were from the Nirmala Samparda order. Interesting to know that went i went to India in the winter. i met the currently leader of the Ek Onkar Trust and believe it or not it turned out to be Sant Balbir Singh Seechawal. The lineage of Seechawal is from Sant Dabara Singh. As you may be aware of as i am sure you Tirath Singh, Sant Balbir Singh is doing alot of great work to get water to the most remote villages in punjab and cleaning the rivers from man made polutants. Their katha is also fantastic which i heard at Gurdwara Hatth Sahib in Sultanpur.

Sant Dabara Singh was a supposed great scholar of gurbani and well versed in Vedant with their teachings being gained at Hardwar (Kankhal)

Tha ashram in Wolverhampton is on Woden Road.

2) Bhai Pinderpal Singh initially gained his teachings from the missionary college but later broke his roots off there and ended up at Mehta. Personally i see alot of differences between his views and Taksal. This is where he ended up recieved greater tuition in the granths but did not really touch Sant Bhasha Granths such as the ones by Pandit Gulab Singh, Pandit Sher Singh or any Vedant Granths (from my knowledge). Today he is the genral secretary of the students federation which is still based at Mehta. He still considers himself as part of the taksal school of thought but as i said if you listen to his katha such as the one of Jap Ji Sahib or Sahaskritee Salok his views and meanings differ from that taught by Sant Jarnail Singh or their predecessors

hope that helps will find out more in Wolves if i get a chance about Sant Dabara Singh

[chatanga]

woden rd in wolves has privtae and business dwellings.have never heard of any of the people here ever refer to sant ashram on woden rd. it may be in one of the many factory units.

also Pinderpal Singh did end up at Mehta although i find hiw translation of scriptures boring sorry if this mkaes me a jerk, but i find his reading and presentataion of history absolutly amazing, especially the Nankana SAhib saka, and at the moment im loistening to Ardas of the Sikhs by Pinderpal Singh, and it s really really good.

also one thing that i wanna share wiv the scholars is that once I heard a recording of Sant Jarnail Singh, and he stated that there were gurmukhs who could give up to 12 different explanations of gurbani. In the katha of Jaap Sahib, Sant Ji gives 2 different meanings per line. Soit dousent suprise me that Sant Ji and Bhai Pinderpal Singh give differnt meaings, altho im sure they would disagree wiv each others explanations.

[Kam1825]

The meanings of Gurbani have no end Chatanga. That is not the issue. If you read the steek of Jap Ji Sahib by taksal and the katha by taksal sants and parsidh gianis like giani thakur singh they will say the mool mantar ends at nanak hosi bhi sahc. This is the taksal school of thought but bhai pinderpal sates the mool mantar is until gurparsaad.

He does not agree with the taksal school of thought in alot of things such as the one pauri of salok mahalla 9 where all taksal will tellyou in puratan granths it was written under the name of Mahall 10. Yes Guru Gobind Singh Ji but again Bhai Pinderpal does not talk about this.

He may have been taught later by taksal but chooses what he wants to say in his katha according to his own thoughts.

Chatanga if you want the address of the ashram of sant dabara singh can be found on the link below

http://www.wolverhampton.gov.uk/community_...sant_ashram.htm

[gsingh00]

Interesting, I never knew that Bhai Pinderpal Singh studied at Taksal. I agree with Chatanga, that katha of bani done by Gyani Pinderpal Singh can be hard to listen to at times, especially after you have listened to Sant Gurbachan Singh's and Sant Kartaar Singh's katha. It just doesn't compare to that standard of katha, and isn't done in the same style. However, I can't think of any other present kathavachak that does ithihaasik katha as well as BHai Pinderpal Singh. The katha he does on history is just something else.

"Guru Gobind Singh Ji but again Bhai Pinderpal does not talk about this. "

It isnt that Bhai Pinderpal Singh doesn't talk about this, he explicitly says that it wasnt said by Guru Gobind Singh Jee.

[tSingh]

Cheers for the info you lot. What I would do for a little smattering of rain at the moment Kam!

[chatanga]

Thanks kam, yes that is a private dwelling, and it is not an ashram in the sense that we know it, but as a guess i would say that the chela who duz the fundraising for Baba Ji or is his represenatative in the UK, lives there and registered it as aplace of worship.

There is another one that i know of like this quite near me, but the bloke who has his house registered as a place of worship, has never had any visible worship there for over 20 yeras. but its still registered as a place of worship.

Sant Balbir Singh came to our gurdwara yesterday, but i was unable to listen to his programme, altho me heard he is very good, and a very comitted environmentalist. The best kind of mentalist methinks!!

[Kam1825]

Which gurdwara were Sant Balbir at? Is this Seechawalae Sant you are talking about? If so where are they going veer chatanga?

[tSingh]

Yes I'm really impressed by Sant Balbir Singh, I've not heard him speak but was on a bus going to Sultanpur lodhi for Guru Nanak Dev Ji's gurpurab mela last year, and he was was finishing this huge walking yatra he'd done with most of the young kids of sultanpur from the source of the bein all the way along its course to sultanpur through loads of villages over the course of a few days, educating villagers about the need not to pollute it. inspired stuff.

[chatanga]

Guru Nanak Gurdwara, Wednesfield, Wolverhampton. yes it was Seechewal. will find out where they are going .

[Kam1825]

any recordings chatanga

[chatanga]

nope. sorry, cos we do have the facilites to record programmes atthe gurdwara but no-one available to do it. i was doing the lavan screen presentation for the wedding upstairs.

[tSingh]

One more thing I forgot to mention that impressed me, on TV a couple of days ago they had the Aggraval bloke (can't remember his full name) who does the long sarguna Krishan bhajan sessions with his eyes closed (usually in Rajasthan I think). And on the stage apart from him and his jatha, Baba Balbir Singh had been invited as mahapurush to sit there with a few shish and was really into it. I think the Aggarwal blokes doing a tour of the UK soon. Radhay Radhay.

[big5abi]

a little history...

During the reign of the sixth Guru, Sri guru hargobind sahib ji there was much need to illuminate those who were limited to remote regions. The sixth Master had traveled to vast lands liberating all who fell under his gaze of mercy as he trekked upon that fortunate soil of what is now known as the Punjab. Many had been the villages which had hosted the lotus feet of such a divinity and many the streets that had been perfumed by the celestial fragrance of that supreme king. During their kingly travels guru ji had inquired the whereabouts of the village of Lopon, from the gursangat. The congregation had humbly replied that “the town of Lopon is strictly devoted to the worship of Pirs and it will not be wise to go there as the townspeople will pay no heed to us.” Guru Ji with his omniscient sight knew all and had a longing to visit the town. He replied “I will not refuse you the congregation, nor will I carry out my own desire, yet I will leave the decision to my steed and wherever it shall tread we shall follow.”

Guru Ji and the sangat had followed the steed for miles until it had arrived at the gates of Lopon which was then known as Piran Puri (the land of Prophets). Guru Ji and the gursangat had now begun to enter the village. The townspeople were left in awe as they witnessed the great master mounted upon a white horse dressed in a silk robe sporting a golden plume. Flooded with ecstasy the villagers came with offerings to pay homage and performed much selfless service. Guru Ji had become pleased with the love and devotion displayed by the people that he granted innumerable boons to the village. Before departing from the village Guru Ji had given a sword to the residents of Lopon, but the villagers had given it back stating “how can the son perform the duties of his father.” To this reply the Guru was very pleased and said that “it is your wish but as of now you will forever maintain a sharp verbosity which will be at once prophetic and shall also cut the fetters of the ignorance of travelers.”

As Guru ji were leaving they granted many boons pertaining to the advancement and spiritual progress the village would make. One of the boons had foretold that a divine succession of highly elevated Sants (saints) would flourish in Lopon which would impart upon humanity the sacred teachings of the Sikh Gurus. The land, Guru Ji said will be blessed by five sants, one being revealed and four being secret. The revealed will lead the lineage and progress it towards Naam-shabad, service and charity while the remaining four will live amongst the men concealing their divinity. These four will only be known to the revealed saint and will serve as spiritual aids to the lineage. The lineage will also provide, as well as stress the need for Lok Seva (service to humanity) and charity. Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji had stated that “whoever shall reside in this lineage shall be in the form of a spiritually perfected mahapursh and will not descend beneath the state of turiya (fourth state of consciousness).” Guru Ji stated that “one day there will be a prophet of high spiritual status and of a very young age who will ascend to Lopon and shower the village with knowledge and divine teachings making it a place of learning and tutelage. He will also erect many marble temples and impart the importance of service and charity.” Amongst these boons many more were granted.

Many were the sants and Fakirs(Sufi ascetic) that had blessed the village of Lopon long before it was blessed with the lotus feet of Sri Guru hargobind sahib ji. For hundreds and thousands of years this village had played host to such prophets and sages such as Allah Yaar, The Seven Rishis and many others.

In accordance with the divine words of Guru Ji, Baba Bhagat Singh Ji upon direction from their spiritual teacher Baba Kudah Singh Ji, had travelled from Lahore (Pakistan) to Lopon. And so began the fulfillment of the prophetic words uttered by Guru Ji.

According to local history passed on by earlier generations, Baba Bhagat Singh Ji had been very fond of the village and had decided to remain there for the remainder of his life. He had bestowed his knowledge of the infinite upon the people of Lopon and had accumulated 40 long years of meditation. One day while Baba Bhagat Singh Ji was blessing the congregation with the importance of reciting naam-shabad, Baba Jis attention had been drawn towards an angelic looking boy who had the marks of a great saint written on his forehead. Through their spiritual insight Baba Bhagat Singh Ji had realized that this young boy will one day become my successor. Baba Ji had taken the young boy in their arms and had asked his name, to which the boy replied, Mitt Singh. Baba Ji had at that moment told the sangat that “this young boys Samadhi(absorbtion of consciousness) will ascend above the Triguna (three qualities of material nature) and he is the rightful heir to this succession of saints.” At the age of 85, Baba Bhagat Singh Ji ascended to their heavenly abode and passed on their sacred mission to Baba Mitt Singh Ji who at the time was of 21 years of age.

Baba Mitt Singh was an Al-mast fakir, who was entranced by internal spiritual experiences and ecstasies which may appear mad to a casual outside observer but were nothing of the sort.

While remaining in this state of divine ecstasy Baba Mitt Singh Ji had recited Baba Bhagat Singh Ji’s divine teachings to the congregation through prayers and Seva(service). Every day Swami Mitt Singh Ji would collect milk and food from local villagers for the Langar (community kitchen). Whilst undertaking these duties Swami Mitt Singh Ji would recite the teachings of past Masters and Gurus to enlighten the villagers in matters of those which are heavenly. During this time Baba Mitt Singh Ji had meditated for 60 years and had attained a state of God-realization, transcending the three qualities and all maya(illusion). Baba Mitt Singh had time to time contemplated on his potential successor. Baba Bhag Singh had once told Baba Mitt Singh that “your spiritual successor will come in the form of God himself and will change the face of Lopon as well as The Punjab.”

Upon the birth of Sri Maan Sant Darbara Singh Ji, Many sants, fakirs and holy men had congratulated Baba Mitt Singh Ji saying that “the Sixth gurus’ words have now come true.”

Baba Mitt Singh Ji had rejoiced and had visited the two day old Swami Darbara Singh Ji. When Baba Mitt Singh Ji had lifted Swami Ji in his arms he was satisfied and had at that moment adopted Swami Darbara Singh Ji as their disciple.

From a very young age Baba Mitt Singh Ji had referred to Swami Darbara Singh Ji as “pundit” (scholar) saying that he is the omniscient pundit who possesses knowledge of all the scriptures an will not need any type of formal education.

As years had passed, Swami Darbara Singh Ji had performed continuous self-less service in the presence of and towards the congregation and His Guru Baba Mitt Singh Ji. Baba Mitt Singh Ji was pleased and had bestowed Swami Ji with Naam (internal Sound) and Daan (spirit of Charity).

When Baba Mitt Singh Ji had reached the last few years of his life, He had decided it is time to reveal the Hukam(divine will) of God to Swami Darbara Singh Ji.

Baba Mitt Singh Ji had told Swami Ji that God has ordered you to carry out five duties during your spiritual tenure.

The five being:

1.) Reading, reciting and interpreting the Sri Guru Granth Sahib and bestowing the knowledge of God upon people.

2.) Construct roads and improve pathways where needed, due to the lack of development at that time.

3.) Construction and commissioning of schools and colleges.

4.) Constructing hospitals, Gaoo Shalas (sacred cow sanctuaries) and Langars (community kitchens)

5.) To build and maintain Gurudwaras in the name of the Sikh Gurus.

Before making his departure to Sach Khand (heaven), Baba Mitt Singh Ji had given an arrow and a blanket to Swami Ji on the day of Masiah (New moon) during the month of Maghar (November/December) and had left to heaven. By doing so he had ordained Swami Darbara singh as His Successor bestowing upon Him his power and glory. Baba Mitt Singh Ji had told Swami Ji to read and interpret Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji to the people and always know it as the eternal form of Akaal Purakh (time-less being). Through his service and charity Swami Darbara Singh Ji had spread the word of God through spiritual discourses from sri Guru granth Sahib and had reinforced the love between man with the power of Naam. Swami Ji had committed his life to setting people on the true path of enlightenment with interpretations and recitations of Sri guru granth sahib ji.

Swami Darbara Singh Ji, true to the words of His Guru fulfilled the five hukams of akaal purakh related to Him by Baba Mitt Singh Ji. During his lifetime, Swami Darbara Singh Ji had erected a white marble temple in memory of His Guru. Swami ji had constructed and commissioned many schools providing a better means of education to the ones who were unfortunate to receive any. Many were the roads and paths which were paved and gave way to better means of transport. Swami Ji had also completed sevas of gurudwaras located mainly in The Punjab, such as Takhtupura Sahib and Kiratpur Sahib to name a few.

During Swami Jis lifetime of 47 years he had written many historical accounts of the Sikh Gurus and other avataras in the form of couplets, odes, sonnets and ballads. Through these poetical verses he conveyed the teachings of the sikh gurus in the form of Kavitas(poems) sung by kavishars(singers of poetic verse).

Through His inner gaze Swami Ji had appointed Sant Zora Singh Ji as his Successor. Swami ji had elucidated the mission that Sri guru Hargobind sahib ji had bestowed upon this succession of saints to Sant Zora Singh ji saying that it is essential to move it forward for the well being and spiritual progression of humanity.

Swami Zora Singh Ji continued to maintain and progress the divine vision set by His Guru. During His time on earth Sant Zora Singh Ji dedicated His life to performing various public charitable services as well as holding monthly programmes commemorating significant days pertaining to sikh history. In the memory of their Guru Ji, Swami Zora Singh Ji erected a beautiful holy shrine, as well as other gurudwaras and schools.

Five years prior to leaving to His heavenly abode, Sant Zora Singh ji had foretold that his successor would be sant jagjit Singh Ji.

On the morning of December 3rd 2005 Sant Zora Singh had transferred his duties and mission to sant Jagjit Singh placing upon Him His gaze of wisdom and grace, after which he had renounced his five elemental body and merged into the lotus feet of Waheguru.

The Sant Darbara Singh Ik-Onkar Trust continues to fund the education of students in schools and colleges today. Sant Jagjit Singh Ji is honouring the life work of Shri Maan Swami Sant Darbara Singh Ji through the teachings of the Shri Guru Granth Sahib in India and internationally. With patience, pure compassion and utter dedication Sant Jagjit Singh Ji is whole heartedly pursuing the divine mission set by his predecessors.

Sant Darbara Singh Ji did not gain his knowledge at Hardwar as some people on this forum are misinformed. He had little or no formal education as everything he had learned was from his guru Baba Mitt Singh Ji. Baba Mitt singh ji had told sant darbara singh ji that all the vedas and granths will be known to you at will as you have already been educated by a higher power.

Through his immaculate recitation and interpretations of gurbani Sant Darbara Singh ji had bestowed pearls of naam upon the sangat.

My family has been following Sant Darbara singh ji's gaddi for four generations and are now fortunate enough to attain divine knowledge from Sant Jagjit Singh Ji of Lopon.

Sant Balbirs singh jis gaddi had sprouted from the grace of Santa darbara singh ji. Sant Avtar Singh of seechewal was a disciple of Sant Darbara Singh ji and had devoted many years of his life in sevice for them. Sant Darbara Singh ji had become pleased and had bestowed his eye of grace on them.

Gaddi:

BHAI DAYA SINGH JI

(FIRST BELOVED)

+

BABA SOBHA SINGH JI

(ANANDPUR SAHIB)

+

SAHIB SINGH BEDI

(UNA SAHIB WALE)

+

BABA BHAG SINGH JI

(KURHI)

+

BABA BIR SINGH JI

(NAURANGABADI)

+

BABA KHUDA SINGH JI

(LAHORE)

+

BABA BHAGAT SINGH JI

(LOPON)

+

BABA MITT SINGH JI

(LOPON)

+

SANT DARBARA SINGH JI

(LOPON)

+

SANT JORA SINGH JI

(LOPON)

+

SANT JAGJIT SINGH JI

(LOPON)

[Xylitol]

Is this the same sant Darbara Singh who educated Yogi Bhajan?

[big5abi]

no not the same one

[chatanga1]

is Baba Mitt Singh the same one the Nihang Singhs refer to as BrahmGiani Baba Mitt Singh of Hazoor Sahib?

[big5abi]

no, he(baba mitt singh, guru of sant darbara singh ji) was an al-mast faqir of Lopon. He was born there and had done 60 years of tapasaya before renouncing his mortal coil.

[valli singh]

and he was a Nirmala

[big5abi]

"Thanks kam, yes that is a private dwelling, and it is not an ashram in the sense that we know it, but as a guess i would say that the chela who duz the fundraising for Baba Ji or is his represenatative in the UK, lives there and registered it as aplace of worship."

The Sant Ashram in Wolverhampton was a house of a sevadar of

Sant Darbara Singh Ji. He had given it to Sant Darbara singh ji, and Swami Ji as he was reffered to, had refused to take it, but as the sevadar insisted Swami Ji had given it to the sangat in return and had told the sangat to hold a satsang there once a month. The sangat has been doing satsang every month at that location since the early 70's. The sevadar who is currently in charge of the ashram is the son of the one who donated it. This is not a place of residence as no one resides there, it is a place of worship where satsang is held every month. I have known the chief sevadars and all of the sangat there as has my family for atleast 30 years.

"Sant Balbir Singh came to our gurdwara yesterday..."

You should ask Sant Balbir Singh about Lopon Wale he wil tell you a lot about them and the gaddi, he is very close to Sant Jagjit Singh of Lopon. Sant Balbir Singh Ji had also come to my house this summer when he had visited toronto.