Singh47

The Ram Raiyas and Dhir Malias are all biological reletives of the Gurus. Sarabjot Singh Bedi and many Bedis are also the direct descendents of Guru Nanak Dev Jee.

Forum members here do use manners when doing vichaar Akaali. I may not like some people here, but insulting someone like this is not the way.

N30 Singh, so you think that the cities are turning evil because of Pendu influence? Are you just pretending to be this gullible? The following things can be found in the cities in excess: -Armed gangs which you can employ to beat and even kill someone if needed. -prostitution houses where under aged girls are forced to sell their bodies. -Ask any police officer in Punjab and he’ll tell you that more rapes happen in the cities than in the Pends even though the Pendu population is more than double the urban population. -Sikhs cutting their hair is also an Indian urban influence that has crept into the Pends. -The Punjabi urbanites will rather speak Hindi with their children than their mother tongue Punjabi. -In the cities you can find the whole BF/GF business in excess. At least in the villages they are ashamed of such relations and keep it hidden, but in the cities you will see bF/GF relation in the open (Shar-e-aam) without any shame what so ever. -At least in the Pends we have Sikhs having Satkaar or Shardha for Sikhi, on the contrast I have seen many urbanites literally ridiculing Sikhi and Sikh beliefs. It’s no wonder that most of these Kala Afghana supporters in India are also urbanites. No way, you can’t have it both ways. On one hand anything that is wrong you point it out without thinking twice, yet when I mention great Gursikhs, Saints and Shaheeds from the Pends you don’t want to acknowledge that. If you say everything that is bad comes from the Pends, then you must also acknowledge everything good that ALSO comes from Pends. There is good and bad in everything. Just as all five fingers of a hand are different yet from the same hand, similarly pendus come in all shapes and sizes, some are good and some a bad, Some are Saints like Sant Jernail Singh Jee and some are Dushts like CM Beanta. Some are brave and some are cowards. BTW, what is Pendu Mat? Is that a religion?

Akaali, I gain knowledge using my own Babek Buddhi or ability or discern right form wrong. I don’t just blindly follow what other write just because they have a PhD or that they were born and raised in the west. A PhD or a western background may impress others, but not me. Truth is, his arguments were totally flawed without any substance that is why he pulled out.

N30 Singh, you talk of the rapes and caste based discrimination in the Pends only, so does that mean this does not occur in the cities? Nothing is perfect. I never said that Pendu society is a utopian society. Criminal activity happens in every society. Rapes, caste based discrimination occurs at the pends, but you fail to see the Gurus, Pirs, Fakirs, Sants, Sadhus, Jogis, poets, shaheeds, warriors, lovers that have also come from the Pends. Or do you just want to ignore that aspect of Pendu heritage and only focus on the bad things? If you notice the bad things, then don’t ignore the goodness in the Pends, because the goodness that has come from the Pends far outweighs the badness. My family is of Jatt background. My Chacha Jee married a woman out of his caste and my family was alright with it. A family from my Nankay who are related to AKJ married their daughter to a Singh from a Suniara background. My family full of Pendus, seats the Chamars at the same level as them in our village. Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawalay (another man with Pendu roots!) also use to seat Sikhs of all caste backgrounds with him without discrimination. From what I have read and heard from Singhs, so did Baba Manochal and Sukhdev Singh Babbar, Shaheed Jugraj Singh and countless other examples of Sikhs from Pendu background. So what are you talking about? If you can give plenty of examples of Sikhs who discriminate, I can give you plenty of examples of Pendu Sikhs who do treat with equality the Sikhs of other castes.

It seems like it is an open season on Punjabi sabhiachaar. Even Sikhs in the west seem to want to bash Punjabi Sabhiachaar because of their addiction and fancy for western culture. I guess our rustic Sabhiachaar may seem a little too crude for their refined western ways. Maybe that is why westernized Sikhs like to speak English with their children instead of the language of their Guru and ancestors i.e. Punjabi. Maybe it could be an inferiority complex. If you guys fancy western life, western culture that is fine. Personally I am proud of Sikh heritage which has it roots in the Pends of Punjab. The same Pends of Punjab which have given birth to Gurus, Soormay, Sufis, Pirs, Sants, Jogis, Lovers, Warriors and Poets of legendary proportion. I may live in the west, but at least I know where my roots are from.

N30 Singh, have you even been exposed to city life in India? The Bhaya community also work as servants in the cities just as they do in the Pends. They get paid for their service, that's not slavery. Slavery is when one person is literally owned by another person. Employment is not slavery. I think that you should visit dictionary.com or wikipedia.com and look up the definition of 'employment' and 'slavery'.

Unbreakable Bhaji, how is the last post a defeated post? Just because I defended Punjabi Sabhiachaar I automatically lost the debate? Lalleshwari Jee is the one who said he wants to pull out of the debate not me.

How does a single girl with a ridiculous sign represent the whole movement? That is like me indiscriminately saying that all Italians are criminals since the Cosa Nostra (Mafia) is dominated by Italians. You will find good and bad people in all movements, religions races and nations, but that does not mean that we should indiscriminately say all are bad just because of a few bad apples. We need to use our Babek Buddhi or the ability to discern good from bad and not just brush everyone with the same stroke. The Khalistan movement had some bad people, but at the same time it also had a lot of Shaheeds, Mahapursh, and Mahabalis who are worthy of Satkaar and reverence. BTW, I thought this topic was about Akal Ustat?

If you dont want to do Vichaar then that is your choice. But how did you come to the conclusion that calling someone a "Pendu" is a bad thing? I think that Pendu is a good thing, in fact it is a GREAT thing! It is something to be proud of. Pendu heritage is full of Shaheeds, Great warriors, scholars, Pirs, Fakirs, Sufis, Jogis, Sants and most importantly the Great Gurus! I am proud of my ancestoral Pendu past as it is a legecy of authentic Punjabi Sabhiachar BRRRRAAAAAA!!!

As far as I know AKJ and Taksal both groups which dominated the Khalistan scene believe in Akal Ustat. So Khalistan is not even a reason as you suggested. Taksali Sants believe in Akal Ustat and Bhai Randhir Singh Jee has quoted Akal Ustat in his books. I think the main reason why it is overlooked is that it is a very long bani. For people it is easier to read smaller banis like Choupi Sahib or Savayai. Another reason is that Dasam Bani is a little more Mehngi than the bani in SGGSJ. Dasam Bani is a little harder to pronounce and memorize. So people tend to memorize other banis which are easier to recite and memorize. At least that is the conclusion I have come to after asking around.

1. The Gurus were not city folks like contemporary business savvy Khatris. The early Gurus conducted their business and lived amongst the villagers of the suburbs of Punjab. Nankana Sahib was originally a small village with vast farmlands from where we hear stories of Guru Nanak Dev Jee’s childhood. After the doing the Udasis, Guru Nanak dev Jee settled at Kartarpur adorned pendu clothing and started doing farming which further proves the simple yet Pendu lifestyle of the Gurus. Sri Guru Angad Dev Jee also came from a similar background when he first met Guru Nanak Dev Jee as Bhai Lehna Jee. Being a Punjabi Khatri does not automatically mean one is a Sheheri (city folk). Due to circumstances and dangers of the time, the 5th Guru and the later Gurus had to adopt some royal practices such as maintaining body guards, armies, forts but that does not cover up their Pendu past. Amritsar, Anandpur or other cities which were founded by the Gurus were not cities at the time of our Gurus. Anandpur Sahib was different with the exception that it also included fortifications, trenches due to the clear dangers of the time. But the other cities founded by the Gurus like Amritsar were mere villages with small populations. Similarly Bombay or Goa were originally small villages just 300 years ago, but now they are great urban centers of India whose populations are in the millions. Delhi was a mere village during the times of Prithvi Raj Chouhan a 1000 years ago, but like Bambay it is a large city with populations numbering in the millions.

Personally I think the Shias do have a better claim then the Sunnis. You don’t need to have a PhD to know that. Just read both sides of the story and you realize the Shias are right and Ali did have a rightful claim to the Khalifat over Abu Bakr. I think the problem the Sunnis now have with the Shias is the concept of the “Imam†(of the 12ers, Zaidis, Ismailis). They think of this and all the other traditions attached to it such as Muharam, 'Ya Ali' as opposed to 'Ya Allah' as very un Islamic.

1. The Pendus which you seem to have so much contempt for are the backbone of Sikh uprisings through Sikh history. Sikh armies since the start of Militancy in Sikh history made the bulk of the armies. City dwellers no where to be seen. True India is in the villages of India not the cities. Over 70% of India’s population is made up of villagers. The trend to go the cities is a recent phenomenon in India which started at the beginning of the 20th century. Pretty much most if not all Sikh mystics, Sants, warriors were born and brought up as rustic Pendus. In know that in your mind the ideal Sikh is like the tight assed, neatly groomed, well mannered Persian knight or a Kshatiya warrior. But the truth is, Sikh warriors are simply following the values which have been passed off to them by their Guru(who were also Pendus!). The concept of Anakh or Izzat are enshrined in all Pendus. 2. You did not mention in your first post about Sucham. Sucham while doing seva of Guru Maharaj is a different issue all together. Your issue with the Granthi was “Why was the Granthi doing Paat or Simran at the urinal or toilet while answering the call of natureâ€. My point is, this is not considered disrespectful in India as it is in the west which has a Semitic background and thinks like Semites where such things are considered disrespectful. Indians tend to remember God when they do anything or everything, maybe this is the influence of the Bhagti movement. Indians will say the name of God before eating, when in pain, when feeling good, when answering the call of nature, before and during driving a car, and also during the last moments of life right before death. 3. My point in mentioning Buddhists was that the Buddh Dharm is also Indian in origin. They share common values to Indian faiths. Their personal idealogy is their own business.

I have read that sakhi and the Sakhi in the Bhai Mani Singh wali Janamsakhi does not imply that we should support the Shias over the Sunnis. It simply implies that both Mohammad and Ali have qualities that are admirable. No where did it say or indicate that the Shias have a rightful claim over the Sunnis. Although personally I do think the Shias are better people then the Sunnis (from my personal experience) but the debate over Imam Ali and Abu Bakr have absolutely nothing to do with Sikhi. In Sikh history you will find plenty of Sunni Muslims who were very close to the Guru. Recently I read a book about sympathetic Muslims of Guru Gobind Singh Jee, and the vast majority of them were Sunnis.

Although reciting Bani or Naam whilst answering the call of nature is not what I would do, but I don’t exactly think that we can think of this as a sinful act. Doesn’t bani tell us to do Simran at all moments Uthdhay, Bathdhay, Suthay, Jaagdhay etc. In India I noticed that in the Pends (villages) elderly people need to get up in the middle of the night several times answering the call of nature, and almost all the times I notice them reciting some bani or remembering Vaheguru by saying “VAHGURU, VAHGURUâ€. In India I have heard of stories of Sants near my village who do Paat or Simran at all moments. When I ask even when they go to the washroom? The villagers say yes, at all time. This is not just amongst the Sikhs, but in India I notice even Hindus do Ram Ram Ram Ram when doing anything, whether it is driving a car, or getting up from a chair they chant ‘Hey Ram…†and yes even then answering the call of nature. Even dedicated Buddhists keep on with their insight meditation while answering the call of nature. These things may seem disrespectful for many Sikhs in the west, but in India this is a way of life. People don’t see this as ‘disrespectful’ as Christians, Muslims or Jews might see it. Indians have a different perspective of things.

Shows a bit of a fat belly doesn’t it?

Maybe Rajasthanis and Punjabis have cultural similarities because both ethnicities share common castes. The peasantry of both states are composed of Rajputs, Jats, Gujars. So there is bound to be similarities between the two. Many of these groups also claim Rajasthan as their historic place of origin before migrating northward to Punjab. Many of these groups also share a common ancestry because of a common descent from the Huns, Scythians, Kushans etc. So the similarities may not be coincidental.

Maybe it is the Rajputs who resemble the Singhs. BTW, I think the dastar of the WW1 veterans looks really nice.

I have also seen the picture of Ranjit Singh posing as Dusht Daman. At first I thought that I must have been the only one who noticed this connection. But seeing Chinderpal Singh also noticing this connection leads me to believe it was not coincidental that he posed as Dusht Daman. It is all psychological tricks being played on people by Ranjit Singh's PR crew to somehow present him as being something great, magnificent and divine in origin.

My Grandfather fought in WW1, and his younger brother fought in WW2. I would like to know more about them if there is any info available online. This topic still brings to mind at how ungrateful the French nation is that they now deny Sikhs from wearing turbans when so many Sikhs fought with the allies for their freedom. With the present French generation being so ungrateful, I can now understand why their forefathers quietly accepted German supremacy without lifting a finger.

Giving Steeks respect is one thing just like we give respect to a Gutka, but I dont know about giving it SatGuru Status. Who are we to give anyone or anything SatGuru Status?

Perhaps the guys who gang raped this Bibi should be sent to an Islamic country where such rapists are buried waist down and stoned to death.

I guess you are right on the part that it is an identity issue for the Shias since they are the only ones in the Islamic world revering the Imams and what they symbolized.

I don’t know the history of that depiction in order to be sure of it’s degree of accuracy of Akali Jee. I do have doubts about that depiction’s accuracy though, as you can see it shows jewelry adorned all over his arms and dumala instead of it being adorned by weapons of puraatan akali nihangs. Just because a painting is old does not necessarily mean it is 100% accurate.