Singh47

Wow Black Goddess, You seem genuinely agitated. Obviously you are not a ‘Gursikh’ if you are a rapist, unless of course you think that raping is also a part of ‘Gursikhi’. Gursikhi comes from following the Sikhi of the Gurus i.e. Naam Simran, reciting Gurbani, keeping Amritvela and rehet etc. How can a non-Gursikh lecture Sikhs on Gursikhi when he himself is not following the path of Gursikhi? It’s almost like a music teacher trying to teach physics to physics students. It just doesn’t add up. Anyway, please visit the following link on the Gursikhi jeevan site. http://www.gursikhijeevan.com/media/video/...Amritdharis.wmv It is about whether or not Non Amritdharis should be allowed on a Gurdwara stage for parchaar.

Black Goddess Jee, I dont understand is, how does a person become an afghan simply because they dont agree with you on some swami jee? despite what Swami Jee has to say about what he beleives in, he is not Gursikh, hense has no authority to lecture Sikhs in a Gurdwara (of all places) on Dharm. Maybe a Mandhir or community center would be a more appropriate place for such events to be held.

That was a sweet reply by Bachan Rai to the ridiculous article written of Suresh Kurl

the question I have is, does a person become a Sant by his actions, or can a person become a Sant simply because they have title attached to there name?

I don’t know about being jealous of the Rajputs, because the Rajasthani Rajputs were brave at one point of their history, but during the Middle Ages they began giving their daughters off to the mughal princes and emperors as a means to secure their domains. So I guess their Jaan (life) meant more to them than their Izzat (honour). But for a Sikh, the reverse is true.

Niranjana is right, but Rajasthan was formerly known as Rajputana i.e. land of the Rajputs.

That was a very good article posted by Mehtab Singh. Ignorance of Punjabi customs can lead to a great many assumptions and misunderstandings.

I demand that this Shaka dude be banned!!! He has insulted the honour of all Sikhs by trying to bring Dasam Patsha into his perverted theories by giving this football player analogy. How dare he do this!! May this dude burn in HELL!!!! Moderators Note II: Please could we save the condemnation to Hell for the another time and place and move on with the discussion.

Lalleshwari, you are an extremist! So just because someone does not agree with you, you dub them as animals, swine and sheep. What are you going to do next... stone to death anyone who doesn't agree with your view of religion like how Shia's do in Iran? Sorry, but Sikhs are not such extremists like your fellow fundi Shia’s where fellow co-religionists are persecuted based on a few ideological differences.

on the top left corner.

hold on a minute, how could Krishan be a descendant of Raam Chander?

atleast they are in storage. Some people began spreading rumours that all the gold was melted and sold.

Samosa Singh, part of the rehet is to wake up amritvela and do Naam Simran (bhagti), plus doing all the Nitnemee Banis. Besides this, one follows Gurus Hukam of Kakari rehet, truthful living, not committing the four krahits. Are you saying that even by following the above stated aspects of rehet, we cannot reach God? Does this mean the Guru Gobind Singh Jee’s khalsa rehet is incomplete?

Iraq was a part of ancient Persia.

I agree with Veer Bobby Boy, Fornication should not be justified because she was murdered. These are two seperate issues. Sleeping around is wrong. Just because we live in the west does not mean we should discard all of our culture and become like goray.

Wow Lalleshwari, you change colours even faster than a chameleon. So now you think Khomeini gives out child raping fatwas. But just last year you wrote the following: "I personaly think that Sant Jarnail Singh had a good knowledge of santhia even though I have myself seen people from the same sampradaya go beyond. There is no doubt about the fact that he kept his rahit etc.... For a long time I was myself fascinated by the character in the same way I am fascinated by Ayatollah Khomeini. Yet my reason tells me to be cautious. There are serious questions and issues involved here and one has to take that whole "rob" element out and think rationally! I would certainly not put him at the same level as Bin Laden (who is a butcher and nothing else) but nor would I put him at the same level as Khomeini (a mystical scholar supported by a huge part of the Iranian population)." http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...06&start=15 ----------------- As for your comments about Ayatolloh Sistani. Did you forget that your beloved Sayed Modarresi whom you have showered praise after praise on the following thread is a representative of Ayatollah Sistani. http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...asc&start=0 Instead of keeping your legs in two separate boats, maybe you should stick to one before you drown.

What the heck? So you're justifying her indulgence into fornication? I don’t know how things are in Europe, but in Cananda most Punjabi people still have a sense of Sharam, most will not allow their daughters and sisters to indulge in sexual relations with Goray, whether you like it or not. And what the heck is a gandharva vivah?

Bruce Lung, what do you mean it wasn't any of his business? if his teenage daughter is having sexual relations (fornication) with a Gora, any Punjabi Mard with some sense of Anakh is going to get offended and damn angry. Yes, it was wrong for him to kill her, but objecting to your teenage daughter or sister from having illegitimate sexual relations with a Gora is not wrong speaking from the perspective of a rustic Punjabi.

I think that the father should definitely have not killed her. If his daughter was having sexual relations with a Gora even though he forbid it repeatedly, then he could have simply stopped talking to her, but killing her was the wrong answer.

Bobby Boy Jee, those are some good points. Here are some more Shia beleifs through the saying of Ayatollah Khomeini: "A woman may legally belong to a man in one of two ways; by continuing marriage or temporary marriage. In the former, the duration of the marriage need not be specified; in the latter, it must be stipulated, for example, that it is for a period of an hour, a day, a month, a year, or more." "A man can marry a girl younger than nine years of age, even if the girl is still a baby being breastfed. A man, however is prohibited from having intercourse with a girl younger than nine, other sexual act such as forplay, rubbing, kissing and sodomy is allowed. A man having intercourse with a girl younger than nine years of age has not comitted a crime, but only an infraction, if the girl is not permanently damaged. If the girl, however, is permanently damaged, the man must provide for her all her life. But this girl will not count as one of the man's four permanent wives. He also is not permitted to marry the girl's sister." "A father or a paternal grandfather has the right to marry off a child who is insane or has not reached puberty by acting as its representative. The child may not annul such a marriage after reaching puberty or regaining his sanity, unless the marriage is to his manifest disadvantage." "Any girl who is of age, that is, capable of understanding what is in her own best interest, if she wishes to get married and is a virgin, must procure the authorization of her father or paternal grandfather. The permission of her mother or brother is not required." "A marriage is annulled if a man finds that his wife is afflicted with one of the seven following disabilities: madness, leprosy, eczema, blindness, paralysis with aftereffects, malformation of the urinary and genital tracts or of the genital-tract and rectum through conjoining thereof, or vaginal malformation making Coitus impossible." "If a wife finds out after marriage that her husband is suffering from mental illness, that he is a castrate, impotent, or has had his testicles excised, she may apply for annulment of her marriage." "If a wife has her marriage annulled because her husband is unable to have sexual relations with her either vaginally or anally, he must pay her as damages one-half of her mehryeh (her price) specified in the marriage contract. If the husband or wife annuls the marriage for any of the above-mentioned reasons, the man owes nothing to the woman if they have had sexual relations together; if they have not, he must pay her the full amount of the dowry." "A Moslem woman may not marry a non-Moslem man; nor may a Moslem man marry a non-Moslem woman in continuing marriage, but he may take a Jewish or Christian woman in temporary marriage." "A woman who has contracted a continuing marriage does not have the right to go out of the house without her husband's permission; she must remain at his disposal for the fulfillment of any one of his desires, and may not refuse herself to him except for a religiously valid reason. If she is totally submissive to him, the husband must provide her with her food, clothing, and lodging, whether or not he has the means to do so." "A woman who refuses herself to her husband is guilty, and may not demand from him food, clothing, lodging, or any later sexual relations; however, she retains the right to be paid damages if she is repudiated." "If a man who has married a girl who has not reached puberty possesses her sexually before her ninth birthday, inflicting traumatisms upon her, he has no right to repeat such an act with her." "A man who has contracted a continuing marriage may not leave his wife for so long a time as to allow her to question the validity of the marriage; however, he is not obligated to spend one night out of every four with her." "A husband must have sexual relations with his wife at least once in every four months." "A woman who has been temporarily married in exchange for a previously established dowry has no right to demand that her daily expenses be paid by her husband, even when she becomes pregnant." "A temporary marriage, even though only one of convenience, is nevertheless legal." "A man must not abstain from having sexual relations with his temporary wife for more than four months. "If a father (or paternal grandfather) marries off his daughter (or granddaughter) in her absence without knowing for a certainty that she is alive, the marriage becomes null and void as soon as it is established that she was dead at the time of the marriage." "To look upon the face and hair of a girl who has not reached puberty, if it is done without intention of enjoyment thereof, and if one is not afraid of succumbing to temptation, may be tolerated. It is however recommended that one not look upon her belly or thighs, which must remain covered." "To look upon the faces and hands of Jewish or Christian women, if this is not done with intention of enjoyment thereof, and if one does not fear temptation, is tolerated." "A woman must hide her body and her hair from the eyes of men. It is highly recommended that she also hide them from those of prepubic boys, if she suspects that they may look upon her with lust." "If a man is called upon, for medical reasons, to look upon a woman other than his wife and to touch her body, he is permitted to do so,but if he can give such care by only looking at the body he must not touch it, and if he can give it by only touching, he must not look at it." "A woman who becomes pregnant as a result of adultery must not have an abortion. If a man commits adultery with an unmarried woman, and subsequently marries her, the child born of that marriage will be a bastard unless the parents can be sure it was conceived after they were married." "A child born of an adulterous father is legitimate." "The best person to breast-feed a newborn baby it its own mother. It is preferable that she not ask to be paid for such service, but that her husband pay her for it of his own free will. If the sum the mother asks for is greater than that charged by a wet nurse, the husband is free to take the child from its mother and turn it over to the wet nurse." "A man who repudiates his wife must be of sound mind and past the age of puberty. He must do so of his own free will and without any constraint; therefore, if the formula for divorce is spoken in jest the marriage is not annulled." "A woman temporarily married, say, for a month or a year, has her marriage automatically annulled at the end of that time, or at any other time when the husband releases her from the balance of her engagement. It is not necessary for this that there be any witnesses, or that the woman have had her period." "A woman who has not yet reached the age of nine or a menopausal woman may remarry immediately after divorce, without waiting the hundred days that are otherwise required." "A woman who has had her ninth birthday, or who has not yet entered menopause, must wait for three menstrual periods after her divorce before being allowed to remarry. If a woman who has not reached her ninth birthday or who has not entered menopause gets temporarily married, she must, at the end of the contract or when the husband has released her from part of it, wait two menstrual periods or forty-five days before marrying again." "If the father or paternal grandfather of a boy has him marry a woman for a temporary marriage, he may prematurely cancel it in the boy's interest, even if the marriage was contracted before the boy reached the age of puberty. If, for example, a fourteen-year-old boy has been married off to a woman for a period of two years, they may return her freedom to the woman before this time has run its course; but a continuing marriage cannot be broken in this way." "If a man repudiates his wife without informing her of it, and continues to meet her expenses for a period of, say, a year, and at the end of that time informs her that he got a divorce a year earlier and shows her proof of it, he may require that she return to him anything he has bought or given her during that time, provided that she has not used it up or consumed it, in which case he cannot demand its return." "If a child dies within the mother's womb and it is a danger to her life to leave it there, it must be extracted in the easiest way possible; it can. if need be, cut into pieces; this should be done by the woman's husband or a midwife." "A woman who wishes to pursue her studies toward the end of being able to earn her living through respectable work, and who has a male teacher, may do so if she keeps her face covered and has no contact with men; but if-that is inevitable, and religious and moral tenets are thus undermined, she must give up her studies. Girls and boys who attend coeducational classes in grammar schools, high schools, universities, or other teaching establishments, and who, in order to legalize such a situation, wish to contract a temporary marriage may do so without the permission of their fathers. The same applies if the boy and girl are in love but hesitate to ask for such permission." (Teachings of Ayatollah Khomeini, Supreme Leader of the Islamic Revolution)

Lalleshwari wrote: But isn’t the Khalsa niyaraa? If Khalsa’s traditions are just borrowed from older traditions, then how is it Nyaraa? I have seen similar arguments put forth by some western scholors who have stated that Sikhism was a fusion between Hinduism and Islam. I never knew that in the UK some Sikhs do this. In India, I have not come across Sikhs joining in on the ‘Siapaa’ by beating their chests and crying in public for Hussain or any other religious figure. Doing public Siapaa and vaN is not endorsed by Sikhi. In Sikh tradition we honour and remember our dead by doing Gurbani Kirtan and Paath in their memory not public Siapaa.

Looks like these three Singhs did well

But din illahi was a religion started by the Mughal emperor Akbar. I dont think that Sikhism or even Shia Islam has any link with Din Illahi. Anyway, you mentioned in your speech about chivelry in Shia'ism, and even said that Sikhism is also a continuation of this shia chivelrous tradition. But the UK Nihangs support of view that Sikhs are a continuation of the Kshatriya tradition of India. You shouldn't confuse tourists going site seeing with devotion and reverence.

When reading stories contained in these old granths, one should good shrewd judgment. If something written in these stories is contrary to Gurbani, then it is very likely that the story is distorted or false. When reading these old Janamsakhis of the Gurus, we find great Sakhis, but sometimes we come across such a Sakhi which is in odds with Gurmat/Gurbani, that is when critical thinking comes in and should be used.

It was good speech with creative vocabulary. Loads of Shia Islam being propagated though...