Matheen

A very pointless topic.

However, it isn't right to say that the Maryada of DDT is recent - it's probably older than the Buddha Dal one, and is very very similar to Maryadas of most other puratan Sampardas, notably the Bhai Daya Singh Samparda.

For hundreds of years, pooran Bhramgyani Mahapursh have gone to Hazoor Sahib, including Baba Nand Singh Ji, Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji, Sant Isher Singh Ji (Rarewale), Sant Jarnail Singh Ji, etc, and NONE have ever spoken against the Maryada of Hazur Sahib, yet they recommend vegetarianism themselves. we should learn from them.

Also, unless one follows the Nitnem of a Nihang, it is not good to follow their other traditions, like jhatka, sukha etc. The only reason they get away with eating mass, which contains all 5 elements, is due to their immense Nitnem and their lifestyle. Even Akaal Nihang Baba Nihal Singh Ji says mass should be avoided if possible and if it must be eaten, it must be jhatka.

Das is right about the spiritual effect, the Pir Suleman recordings make that clear.

Guru Rakha.

I was listening to a tape of Sant Isher Singh Ji just today and they spoke of this. 'Nit-nem' by definition, is that which is done everyday without fail. It's food for the soul, just as the body gets weak without nourishment, our spirit suffers without Gurbani.

(This is my own opinion now)- Being late isn't really an excuse, but I know it happens, lol. The hukam I was given is that I can't eat anything until I've at least done 5 Banis. This is very effective in making sure I get Nitnem done, even if it's at 6pm whem I get back home. Also, it's ok to listen to Nitnem while on the move, if you have to.

Regarding Ishnan - if you can stand up or get out of bed, you can have ishnan. Besides, Guru Sahib tells us that having Ishnan and doing Nitnem gets rid of physical as well as mental diseases. There are times when it is impossible to have a full ishnan e.g. on a long flight etc. In that case, you wash your hands, face, feet and brush your teeth then do your Nitnem.

When you first start keeping a Nitnem, you will face many obstacles but need to keep fighting to the end - "Khalsa Karey Nit Jung..." Remembering Guru Gobind Singh Ji's bachan: "Rehat Pyaari Mujh Ko, Sikh Pyara Nahi.." also helps.

Unbreakable and the others, do you have any proof of what you're saying?

Amazing how we believe rumours and hearsay without a second thought isn't it? You know what they say about nindya and chugli.....

Age has absolutely nothing to do with avastha, as Guru Ji showed us.

Why not look at the FACT that literally tens of thousands of people have become Amritdhari just by listening to his parchaar. How many people have we inspired to do the same? Exactly.

They insist on complete shudta from the Paathis, and have a regular team of tested Paathis - this is really important - the first time Sant Isher Singh Ji asked Bibi Ji to hold a Paath for someone, the Rooh didn't go - later it named the Paathi who sat for duty without sucham. The people listening to Paath also have to stay 'sucha' while listening to Paath, and become vegetarian.

By the way, it's not a Nanaksar dera but linked to Rarasahib, also the Rooh did get Mukti on that occasion but I think the Mahapursh don't like bringing attention on themselves. There was a case where the Roohs (there were 3!) said they would go but take the sick woman with them - they were convinced to go once reminded what lies in store if they don't (i.e. staying in this world) and left her alone.

As such it's not really exorcism but giving Mukti. In some cases, the Rooh is there because of the "laen-daen" or attachments from previous lives or even dead loved ones from this life.

It's when you see stuff like this with your own eyes that you start to appreciate the reasons for keeping sucham and the Maryada of Akhand Paaths and reading Bani in general and above all, the immense power of Gurbani.

Don't know about Soho Road, but Taksaal certainly don't say this....as seen in 1984.

Anyway, back to topic....

MahaKharag Singh, I wish the book "Preython Kithey Devte" by the Jathedar at Gurudwara Sant Ashram, Bhorasahib, Hapur (where the Suleman episode took place) was on-line. I have seen exorcisms carried out PURELY through the correct use of Gurbani at this place, not withstanding the fact that Sant Isher Singh ji gave this duty, in writing, to the present Sant (Bibi Ji) at the Gurudwara.

In one case, i was present in the room with a family of a very sick man. (They had come seeking a cure after hearing that people are healed here) They were asked to listen to a Saptah Paath (carried out over 7 days - about 204 Ang read every day starting at the same time every A.M.).

On the last day, after the bhog, a Rooh spoke in the sick man, asking for Mukti. When questioned, he revealed the name of the Pir who sent him and also the name of the man's relative who went to the Pir to get the toona done. The Rooh also said how he was very afraid of the Pir, who was very powerful and that he would only leave the man if given Mukti. Bibi Ji said Maharaj Ji would give Mukti and to say Fateh and leave with the (Gupt) Singhs. After saying Fateh (this took some effort!), he was gone.

Anyway, to cut a log story short, there was no beating or screaming etc in all the days that I stayed there - also every case was slightly different, the common factor being the use of Gurbani to get the desired result 100% of the time (provided certain requirements are fulfilled e.g. doing a specified no. of JapJi sahibs etc).

I spoke to the Jathedar Ji of the Dera and he explained that problems begin when someone who is not Mukt themselves attempts to give Mukti. They may get the Rooh in question to leave but it sometimes gets violent and leaves a void that they sometimes fill with another Rooh, giving the impression that all is well - then 3 years down the line the pain begins again.

This is just a part of my own experience - I could go on and on about the things I've seen and heard, but sometimes you have to be there to believe it.

I really recommend the book I mentioned ( if you want, I can post you a copy - PM me). Also, Suleman reveals much if you listen carefully to the recordings.

The funny thing is, why do most of the practitioners of the "dark arts" seem to be Muslim Pirs - take a look at the back pages of Des Pardes etc to see what I mean. Also, in most of the cases I witnessed, the Rooh(s) sent to cause trouble were formerly Muslims - some of them openly said that the only path to Mukti was Gursikhi.......

There are many sakhis relating to this topic.

In one from Sooraj Parkash, Guru Ji warns his Sikhs not to deviate from the path or change their convictions or lose their faith in Guru Sahib. Even if "someone/ some shakti manifests in front of you and flies to the top of a tree and sits there, etc (more example of various powers are given)".

If people break their convictions or faith in Guru Sahib due to minor things like dreams or even by seeing something when awake, then what chance have they got when Ridhya- Sidhya begin to follow them around or when Maya tries her hardest to break you from the path.

It is for this reason that nimrata and full faith in and love for Guru Sahib is required to succeed on this path. Full faith in Guru Sahib's teachings and power, and NOBODY else. Every true Mahapursh teaches this - that there are many distractions and tests on the path, but to keep bairaag and longing for Waheguru until only Waheguru remains and 'you' don't.

There are quite a few 'Mahapursh' who reach the level where pirs/devte etc come to do seva and they stop there and think they've made it. 'Prabhta' is the hardest thing to overcome and is referred to as 'bikham nadi' in Gurbani.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa Waheguru ji ki fateh Questions answered by Sant Baba Darshan Singh Dhakki Sahib  1) Right now we're supposedly in the Kaal Yug (age of darkness, one of the 4 ages), if and when the Saatch Yug (age of light/truth) comes, does that mean everything is good or there's still a mixture?  If everything is good, how would you know what was good? If everything was bad, how would you know what was bad? The four yugs (ages) don't occur in a linear fashion one after the other. All four are always in motion at exactly the same time, however one is always a bit more dominant than the others. Hence in the Kal Yug the darkness is dominant but you also have some saatch (light/truth/wisdom), and in the Saatch Yug you will also have some kal (darkness/ignorance), but the saatch will be dominant. Right now the kal is dominant, but it doesn't last. 2) What's the purpose of all this creation? It's all God's play. God throws you out within Himself (here Babaji flicks his finger as though flicking a small marble ball away) and then says "Find me" (here Babaji illustrates the point by at the same time urging the ball to return to him with a motion of his fingers). And all this is leela (God's eternal play) that's going on infinitely and spontaneously without intention, It's God playing and expressing Himself in infinite different roops (forms). (Because God doesn't need a reason to do anything and has nothing to achieve or purpose to fulfill, or else he wouldn't be God. Everything is the spontaneous eternal play of the Infinite for Self-expression and Self-experience). 3) How would you define your role? To lead people's hearts to God, to join them with God, that's my only role. Sometimes that will be achieved through external social service, sometimes through devotion or an emphasis on meditation or through gyan (dispersing knowledge of the truth). The doctor has to adapt his medicine according to the differing needs and nature of the patient. 4) What's the most important thing on the spiritual path? Pursuing the truth, nothing is more important that that. If a man can prove to me that God doesn't exist, I'm willing to follow that man, because truth is all that counts. 5) Gurbani (main Sikh scripture) says that the world reality is actually just a projected appearance by God within His consciousness just like our dreams at night which seem to be intensely real, but which turn out to be completely non-existent when we wake up in the morning. Gurbani says again and again that we should wake up from this jagrat state (waking dream) to the 4th state (Turiya which is the source substance of the first three and the sole reality). You've meditated and experienced that everything is inside yourself, not on the outside, that it's all truly just a dream within your own consciousness. So why then do you do all these charitable projects such as the blood camps, de-addiction centers, why do you run around for so many hours each day giving so many discourses at so many different Gurdwaras, when you know none of this really exists, no one is really suffering and no one is really helped, that it's all a dream as Gurbani states. Why do you do something instead of nothing? It's completely true that all this is just a dream in reality, it doesn't really exist, but I do what I do for 3 reasons. First of all it's my hukam to do whatever I'm doing. Secondly, I like the role I've been given, I'm able to help others within this dream, it's a good role. And thirdly due to the love of the people in the dream. But the most important of the three is the hukam. None of this exists outside, the whole world is a dream within just like the seemingly intense physical solidity of the world in your own dreams at night, but still the most important thing to do in this dream is to honor and follow God's hukam. In truth everyone is following God's hukam, everyone without exception is doing exactly what God wants them to, but 99% of the people are unaware of this, you can't even have the thought that makes you take a certain action or take a breath without God's hukam. The whole universe exists and is in motion by Wahe Guru's (God's) hukam alone. 6) It's my understanding that God projects the field of Maya (the world illusion) within Himself, then projects all the individual souls also within Himself, and that these supposedly individual souls are in reality never separate from Wahe Guru (God), but when placed in a body with limited senses and a mind, they forget their true nature and think they are separate beings so that all the dramas can be enjoyed with greater intensity. Is it true that God and the Atma are always one, never separate at any time and that in reality all bondage or suffering is only due to a lack of perception or realization on this front? It's true that the Atma (individualized soul in a body) and Paramatama (God) are always one, there is never any separation, but the Atma is made to forget this truth via ignorance and has to go through various disciplines to realize it's true nature. God is in each person, but God isn't Maya (the world illusion which appears to be real via ignorance). 7) Yes, but isn't it true that the very shakti (life force) in the field of Maya is none other than Paramatama (God/the Infinite)? That in truth God is the very source substance of the field of Maya, but in that instance God is simply appearing in a different form?  Yes, that's true, it is God, but the roop (form) is different. Everything and everyone is God, but appearing in a different roop.Top 8) Is it true that the only veiling curtain between man and God is the thoughts of the mind alone since God is one, but the thoughts of the mind always perceive things in terms of diverse contrasts (such as good or bad, cold or hot, rich and poor) instead of recognizing the unity of everything at the source substance level?  Yes, Wahe Guru (God) is everywhere, but because of the mann (mind) thinking 'meh' ('me' or 'I'), the ego is formed which perceives reality as separation and diversity (instead of recognizing everything as one, the mind makes the soul perceive everything inside the body as 'I', and everything outside as 'you' or 'them'). This hides the true reality. When the mind is purified and made transparent through simran (making the mind one pointed on God), then the underlying reality of Wahe Guru (God) is recognized as the sole reality. Dualistic thoughts (seeing things as separate and distinct) are the veiling curtain that hide God from our awareness even though He's everywhere.  9) When the eyes are closed and the mind is emptied of thoughts for even only 5 seconds, even though you're not thinking and the mind is empty for a short while, there's still a very subtle but clear awareness that you exist which seems to have it's center in the heart rather than the mind, That subtle awareness or consciousness of existing is colorless, formless, and very calm and seems to be never changing or moving, until thoughts are projected upon It, like a movie projected on a screen. It's the easiest thing in the world to lose one's balance by getting mixed up in the movies created by one's thoughts, but going back to the root awareness in those moments seems to have an instantly centering and balancing effect, because even in the middle of even intensely happy or unhappy experiences, looking within with the mind empty even for only a few seconds, that very subtle awareness that one exists still seems to be perfectly calm and completely still and in peace. So what I wanted to ask was, is this neverchanging subtle awareness that you still exist when you have no thoughts even for a few seconds Wahe Guru, is it your real Self? Yes, that awareness or consciousness within your heart is Wahe Guru (the Infinite), but what you're experiencing is a small glimpse of your real Self. As you gradually get more and more anchored in that, it expands into infinity. What you're experiencing is a drop which is your Atma (the individual soul), and as you go deeper you'll experience that the drop - your Atma - has always in reality been an ocean which is Paramatama, the sole ocean within which everything exists. Then when you return from the experience of realizing that you are the ocean, that awareness will be with you at all times even when your eyes are wide open. A person in this state is called a Jiwanmukta (awakened while still in body). (Note: When the eyes are closed and the mind is emptied of thoughts for even only 5 seconds - because anyone can achieve that for at least 5 seconds - what remains in the absence of thoughts is an awareness that you exist. The sensation of the eyes is a bit of a distraction at first even though they're closed, but getting past that gradually, if one pays attentions, the subtle awareness that you exist reveals itself as originating in the chest area, in the heart rather than the mind). 10) Does the mind in such a person completely dissolve, leaving only the spiritual heart as the sole guide or discriminating faculty? No, the mind doesn't completely disappear, it remains, but in a purified state. The mind before, being the cause of your ego had become your master, now it becomes the dutiful servant of the heart (your real Self). Your real Self is not the body, or mind but spirit (consciousness) which has it's origin in your spiritual heart. That spirit is everywhere though, but in your body you'll find it's root in your heart. 11) How do you function after the mind has been purified to reveal the underlying source substance of all reality? Your spiritual heart determines the direction to go, while the mind analyzes, dissects and figures out the best way to get from point A to point B. Again the mind doesn't determine direction or desired end, only how to get there within the dream world. Through simran and meditation, the mind becomes one pointed making it transparent and acutely sharp, but because it's conditioning has been thinned out almost completely dissolving the ego, it becomes a complete servant of the heart, which is your real Self and one with the Infinite. God resides in every heart, persevere and surrender to that and you're free. 12) You're referring to the spiritual heart slightly to the right, not the physical organ to the left? Yes, the spiritual heart is consciousness, from that comes the shakti which animates the mind and your body. 13) Is the ego completely dissolved or some portion is left in order for you to be able to keep your feet on the physical plane? A very small trace of ego is left after you recognize the unity of all creation. However that small amount of ego is so transparent that a Self realized saint is unmoved by whatever happens on this plane, having recognized the truth. And that small trace of ego is there by the choice of the saints so that they can function on this physical plane and fulfill their hukam, otherwise they would be on another plane, and not in their body. 14) Some people prefer to think of God in human form as a saint or avtar, my perception without intention happens to be of the Infinite in the formless state, as spirit or indivisible consciousness that is manifest within everything. My frame of reference keeps returning to the central point that everything is God, so what I wanted to ask you is, is there anything wrong with this angle of vision, or is there a better way to approach all this? Am I doing anything wrong, should anything be changed? No, there's nothing wrong with thinking God is everything, it's very good. And no, there's no need to change anything, continue doing whatever you want. 15) Some mystics have given others an experience by a simple touch, can you give me the experience of samadhi? (Babaji smiles and says): Via simran(Meditation), it will come by itself. 16) It's a psychological truth that you actually become whatever your dominant thought is, whatever you think about all the time, that becomes your reality, but how would you personally define the purpose or benefit of doing simran? Without simran you are like a little child lost in a mela (fairground/festival) and can easily lose your way or be easily overwhelmed by all the diverse rides, games, sights and sounds. The only obstacle to realizing your true nature is your ego, and the ego is only a child of your mind which is only made up of thoughts. Simran gradually makes your mind one pointed on one thought, until it purifies the mind so that it dissolves and becomes transparent enough to reveal your true underlying nature. After that you are like the child who returns to the playground holding a finger of your Father's (God's) hand. Then you can go on any ride you want without ever again losing your way in the fairground or getting overwhelmed with all the attractions, sights and sounds, and for the first time are fully able to enjoy the mela (fairground/festival) as a free person realizing it for what it is. 17) I have a firm belief in the concept that - praise or blame, both are the same, since the source substance of both is the same one Infinite - and that as a result we should be even and balanced inside in both situations. The praise part is easy to get a handle on, but blame is of course always a little more difficult, so I prayed for some practice on this front. Is it OK to be even and balanced inside in the event of blame or abuse, or should one be in bliss even in that? It's very good to be even within in the event of blame or abuse, remaining even and balanced is a very high state. Beyond that later on comes a state where you are in bliss even during blame, but that's going deeper still. 18) Why is there still so much suffering and poverty in India for so many? Because where you have extreme good as in the case of all the Mahatamas and enlightened saints, you must also have extreme bad to balance it all. Everything in the universe is a perfect balance. Here in America, you don't have extreme good, and hence you also don't have extreme bad, although you do have bad. It takes more of the apparently bad to outweigh the good since the apparently good is always more powerful than bad. So India is very extreme on both ends for a completely perfect balance between the two. On the surface of India, you see only the apparently bad, but below the surface India has the highest good too in the form of all it's awakened sages, who have always been beneficial to the whole planet. That's the country that has produced all the enlightened sages and given the world all it's religions. 19) What do you see as the biggest problem in India today? Lack of education and negative thinking. 20) Do men in India treat their women better these days, or is divorce becoming more prevalent there? The ideal is one thing, but unfortunately the reality is generally something else. The reality is that if the women of India had economic independence as generally do the women here, then India would lead the whole world for divorces. It's only because of majboori (economic difficulty, mutual need for security) that couples stick together, there's often not true love or mutual respect as the base of the marriage. But here in America, the majboori isn't there, but there's a big lack of commitment. A marriage formed in the mutual love of God is the highest. 21) Is it true that the purpose of all religion is to simply realize your real self, and nothing else? Absolutely true, that's why in Gurbani it says many times "Aapna mul pashaano" (recognize your true nature/know thyself, the source substance/substratum of your very existence). All the rest of religion is just preparation for that, to mature and make us ripe for the real work which is to stop being distracted by externals, dive within our own heart and realize our true nature which is purely spiritual, not physical. The true nature of everything and everyone is spiritual, the whole universe appears in the spirit of Wahe Guru (the Infinite) who is the sole reality in all things. 22) Guru means anyone or anything that dispels the darkness of ignorance. It's said that there can and will be many gurus in many forms, including books and communication via dreams, but that for each person there is precisely one Sat Guru (highest guide), so how do you recognize the Sat Guru? Sat Guru is the one that takes you all the way to anand (bliss). 23) Is the real nature of the guru with form (human body) or without form? Without form (infinite spirit, consciousness). As a result all the true Gurus are one. 24) Is it better to do just simran, meditation or both? Meditation is like winding up a clock in the morning, giving you the momentum to do your simran the whole day. One is fine, both together is better. 25) Is contemplating God as being within everyone and everything at all times the same as doing simran? Contemplating God at all times is good, but without simran it's difficult to progressively ascend the ladder of consciousness. (The effects of simran are based upon the psychological truth that you become whatever your dominant thought is, since our reality is always colored & formed by whatever we saturate our consciousness with for the majority of the time). 26) Are there other planes of existence or dimensions where there is more peace or bliss? Yes, there are planes where there is nothing but bliss, then there are some below. Compared to the spiritual planes, this plane of existence is nothing, the happiness here is nothing compared to the happiness on the spiritual plane. But before getting there the soul has to evolve through many life forms. Towards the end that soul will once again be put in a human body for one or two more lifetimes, and will be given a role whereby it does nothing but physical seva for all from youth to old age and death, in order for that soul to get past theory and completely experience that God is truly equally within everyone and everything, that everything is God. 27) I have really bad dreams that the world is going to end soon, we're doing so many crazy things these days. What should I do about that? Those who fear that the world will end should pray to God that it doesn't. That will make a difference. In reality this world will never end, existence never comes to an end. All this creation is happening on such an endlessly infinite scale that the mind can't even begin to comprehend the scope of God's eternal creation. Forms and circumstances change, but life, existence never had a beginning or birth and will never come to an end or death.

I was listening to a tape of Sant Isher Singh Ji just today and they spoke of this. 'Nit-nem' by definition, is that which is done everyday without fail. It's food for the soul, just as the body gets weak without nourishment, our spirit suffers without Gurbani.

(This is my own opinion now)- Being late isn't really an excuse, but I know it happens, lol. The hukam I was given is that I can't eat anything until I've at least done 5 Banis. This is very effective in making sure I get Nitnem done, even if it's at 6pm whem I get back home. Also, it's ok to listen to Nitnem while on the move, if you have to.

Regarding Ishnan - if you can stand up or get out of bed, you can have ishnan. Besides, Guru Sahib tells us that having Ishnan and doing Nitnem gets rid of physical as well as mental diseases. There are times when it is impossible to have a full ishnan e.g. on a long flight etc. In that case, you wash your hands, face, feet and brush your teeth then do your Nitnem.

When you first start keeping a Nitnem, you will face many obstacles but need to keep fighting to the end - "Khalsa Karey Nit Jung..." Remembering Guru Gobind Singh Ji's bachan: "Rehat Pyaari Mujh Ko, Sikh Pyara Nahi.." also helps.

'N30Singh' first compiled this many years ago. It deserves to be made a sticky.


.....Going back to Naam now, there are many techniques how to do jaap of Shabad given to you by mahapursh in form of panj pyares, most of puratan samparda's give you shabad/Gurmantar in amrit sanchar but give you Naam jugti in a separate session alone - mahapursh and jagiaso.

Also may i add it's not proper to say, i got naam amrit from others or mahapursh in form of panj pyares, panj pyares instill naam in you, you get shabad from panj pyares. Naam is inside us day we were in the womb. Naam is everywhere, exist in his creation:

Gurbani says:

Naunidh amrit prabh ka naam, dehi mein iskaa bisraam (GGS : 292, Sukhmani, 23.1).


Anyway here are some of the techniques(jugti) given by mahapursh in the past, they are diffferent. Remember there is no such thing as one technique is better than others, people on this forum should get out from this "bamal bussa" and "dubta" black and white sikhs trying to propagate. Yes certain people find certain techniques comfortabale but they can't say one technique is superior than others.


- Technique given used and given by mahapursh- sant 108 baba sunder singh ji bhindranwale (fetched from gyani thakur singh ji japji sahib katha translations tapes):

Ajapa jap

Jap is of three types:

1. Vachak- Recitten with tongue and can be heard by others.

2: Upas: Recitten with tongue also but less audible.

3. Manas- Meditation of Vahiguroo with mind..meditation through thought process.

First stage of gursikh is Vachak. Gyani Ji gave example of how siriman 108 sant baba sunder singh ji maharaj bhindranwaley used to do japji sahib first in one hour, then do second japji sahib in half an hour, then do third japji sahib in 15 minuites, then do fourth japji sahib in 10 minutes, then fifth time do japji sahib in 5 minutes.


- Techniques given by sant baba isher singh ji rara sahib waley (sub branch of bhai dya singh samparda)

Jap(meditation) is also done by:

1. Baikri Bani- When one recites naam with javan(tongue), hout(lips), khaieyal(thoughts) that is called Baikari Bani.

2. Madhma Bani- When one recites naam in Kant(throat) without moving lips...just with the thoughts is called Madhma Bani.

3. Pasanti Bani- When one recites naam in hirda(heart).

4. Para Bani- When one recites naam in Nabhi(Navel) without moving tongue and with the thoughts. In this stage vahiguroo naam gets infused in rom rom of the body. Meditation goes in automatic mode. There is no need for concentration.

Gurmukh Rom Rom Har Dhavaie ||

After 4th stage, one gets to very high stage. Where one can hear(jap-resonance,dhuni) with their surati in pretty much everything in this creation ie- walls, birds, leafs, animals, human being, even from realms (bhramands).

Dharat Patal Akash Hai Meri Jindaeriye
Sab Har Har Naam Dhavaiya Ram ||

2nd technique:

Va Va Da Abhyaas Nabhi Ch Karo
(Doing Simran of Va Va on Nabhi/Navel )

Hi Hi Di Awaaz Hiradaie Ch
(Doing Simran of hi hi on the heart)


Gu Gu Kant ch Karo
(Doing Simran Gu on the kant/near throat)

And

Ru Ru Di Awaaz Mastaak mai Ratan Kartaie Hoye Birti Kou Nirgun Atma Mein Lin Kar Duo

(Doing Simran Ru Ru on the Mastaak/third eye)

So its a cycle - Va ( on Nabhi) Hi(on heart) Gu (on Kant) Ru(On Mastak/third eye).

Thats one cycle....I dont know...this cycle or stage explained in the book is the first intial stage to the simran or second last stage in simran....

3rd technique:

This is also included in Soraj Parkash Granth.

According to a prasang(divan) on chapter of mata ajeeto kaur reaching enlightment. Mata ajeto kaur was under guidance of siri guroo gobind singh where she was taught all the "YOG SADHNA/Shabad Surat Marg where chakras are used", when mata ji did yog sadhna, when her birthi(dhyaan) reached - Trikurti/3rd eye..she started seeing the future e.g. the besiegement of Sri Anandpur Sahib, leaving the kila etc and the shaheedia of the char sahibjadey. After seeing this in a dream she asked Guru Gobind Singh jee whether this was true, Guru Sahib confirmed this.

Mata jee then told guru jee that she could not see all this pain happen and would rather die/ leave for Sachkand and asked permission to leave her body. Guru Sahib jee granted her permission and subsequently she did ishnaan, a Sukhmani Sahib da Paath and then left her body by reciting the mantar and with that mantar taking her prana on top and realising it via bhram randar nari( subtle vein) through dasam dwara.

4th technique:

First concentrate on Sargun saroop of Vahiguroo while reciting shabad ie- Gur Ki Morat Man mein dhyaan Guru Ka shabad mantar man maan

then after mind becomes subtle, that shabad will automatically take you upper realms and that shabad will infuse in your surat


Techniques used and given by sant jawala singh ji harkhowaley (sub branch of bhai dya singh samparda)

Naam Simran Jagutiya by Sant Baba Jawala Singh Harkhowaley

1st technique

First do simran with the help of bakhri bani(recitation of tongue) and focus on trikurti
( between the eye brows) focus so hard and meditate so hard that you are exhausted consequently you will start meditating automatically on throat chakra with Madhma Bani (thought provoked automatic recitation) then focus so hard on madhma bani that it gets exhausted. Again consequently meditation will start in the heart and continue to the Nabhi (Navel). In the navel, guru’s jap awakens the kundalani in the navel. By doing this.,tenth door(dasva dwara) opens. By doing this technique your meditation process never stops and you are experience doesn’t break.

2nd technique.

Meditation using Vahiguroo Mantra...

Meditate with repeating Vahiguroo with your breath. When you inhale, take Vahi with your breath and take it all the way to Nabhi crossing your heart. Then take Gu from your heart to Ru from your trikurt by doing this... Tenth door (dasama dwara) opens..

Next stages (When trikurti opens) you see some light, first you see red then you see white and then you see the light that is so strong that makes thousands of suns and moons look dim but it doesn’t hurt your eyes ..It’s a feeling of calmness and rain of Amrit(Nectar).

That is followed with sweet(celestial ) sounds which are called Panj Shabad (Anhad Shabad)…focus on that shabad but you have to transcend the point that yogi gets to because that point is still bound by creations and its only when your ego dissolves that you achieved what you meant to be achieving..

Naad means sound (dhuni) and there are two types of sound

Aahat and Anhat

1. Aahat caused by two things colliding .This breaks down into thee parts 1. Breath = vocal sound 2. Sound which comes from instruments 3. Combinations of both and that’s where it collides.

2. Anhat: Heaven celestial sounds.

3rd technique:

Sant Jagjit Singh Herkhowal here is narrating the instructions given to his father on how to perform Naam Abhyaas by Baba Jwaalaa Singh Herkhowal.

Another technique by harkhowaley mahapursh

They are;

Preparations:

1) First recite Japuji Sahib

2) Then perform ardas requesting permission to recite naam and to be devoid of distractions

3) A mat should be laid on the floor, covered by a woolen cloth and then a white sheet

4) A pitcher of water is put to one side

5) The surroundings are adorned with incense and flowers

6) Sit facing the rising sun (east) in sidhaasana

7) Each hand should be placed on the knees in vairaag mudra

8) Keep spine erect, head high

9) To initially control the senses close left eye and with the right focus on the tip of your nose

10) Then recite mool mantar until you have strong concentration

11) Then recite gurmantar - first with baikri bani, then so only you can hear, then in the throat, then heart then navel chakra at belly button

12) This stage will take time but will be achieved with practice

13) once there, fix attention at triputi (between eyebrows)

14) He then explains trikuti and then way to dasam duar

15) The recitation of gurmantar should proceed with 'vaa' in stomach chakra, 'hi' in heart, 'guu' in throat and 'ruu' in triputi.

16) Four types of rasna - baikari (aloud), madama (in throat), pachyanti (voice in hriday/heart), and para bani (nabi).

17) Ru meaning light brings light to triputi (which is above the trikuti)

18) Therefore placing each of the gurmantar in each of the chkras in ascending order

19) explanation is then given of the nature of the experience that arises out of this practice, the final opening of saharakamal chakra and the experience of advaita.

20) There is further guidance on seasonal changes that need to be made, and issues of daily practice.

4th technique by harkhowaley mahapursh:

Baba jawala singh ji answered:

Hey pyaray gurmukho, the shabad, which is the emanation and form of guruji’s heart, that shabad is brahm. Get absorbed in that shabad and you will find that you no longer exist and that is the way that you will get muktee. Guruji has used the following lines in gurbani to explain this……

1)sabad gur peera, gaher gambeera, bin shabadai jag baugaanang.
2)Satgur bachan, bachan hai satgur paadhur mukat janavago
3)Etc etc (more bani was said to reinforce the point)


It is for this reason that gurmat is focusing on god through shabad ( gurmat hai shabad brahm dee upaashna) because shabad has 3 forms according to wise mahapurakhs:


1)asthool: when your eyes gaze on a granth and you read those letters out loud
2)misrat: when one’s birti (focus/attention) becomes attuned to the shabad, the shabad is both suksham and asthool because the mind is made of the (tatta da sato ansh)….the sat (virtue/true/purest) form of the qualities.
3)Sukham= sookham (astral/spiritual)

When the shabad abhyaas (meditation on the shabad) surpasses the consciousness(surat) of the mind, and gets absorbed in the paar baani (the celestial emanations of the primal sound)..(this is also called, naabhi di baani (sounds of the naval chakra). That baani has the ability to take the jeev’s surti (the consciousness of the being) to the pinnacle point of brahm (the point from which creation was started).

For this reason, you should all focus on the shabad.

5th technique: Viraat Upsana

Recite vahiguroo through your mind and at the same time visualize first start with people/places you dislike - see light in them then move on bringin the whole creation (parkirti) inside and try to feel as if every inch of this universe is reciting vahiguroo's name - leafs, waterfall, valley, tree's , wind.. as if you are seeing light's everything.

this way our mind which is dualistic see two (see god separate from creation) changes into non-dualistic mode which is see oneness (god's light in every being).

Techniques by sant baba aya singh ji hoti mardan (sub branch of bhai dya singh samparda). Sant aiya singh ji was murshid of sant jawala singh ji. Note this technique is given to sangat where there is not only sikhsangat but everyone- hindu and muslim:

refererence: The Radiance of complete journey to Akaal Purkh
chapter- Sant baba Aiya Singh Hoti Mardan giving sermons to Sangat.

Diffferent ways of Meditation.

1. Meditating by focusing eyesight on rising sun. It's done in winter. Hindus call it trianghlar concentration.

2. Shugal Mayyat or Mansuri..some hindus call it dead body's posture it is done by lying on ground on back with mind upwards, body completely loose and eye sight focused on behind the brows.

3. Breathing control in which attention is focused on third mole. It's equal to the first one and is done via padam asan(cross legged position)

4. Attention is focused inside as well as outside on the fae of Guru(mentor).

In this way, one enjoys the unique fruits of spiritual life and hidden secrets are uncovered.

5. Shugal Ishnan Jat- In this, attention is focued on kalava shanovari due to this practice the mediator gets absorbed into his own self.

6. Shugal Aina (Means of Mirror)- It involves eye sight focussing on eye pupil in the reflection. This way eye-pupils over turn inwardly and get's to white spot or third mole.

7. Half awakened position- By this eyes are constantly kept open to avoid sleep. Therefore even though in sleep one remains half awake.

8. Inner form and intellect are concentrated upon white spot.

9. Eye- sight is focussed on the nose-tip then gradually moves backward to the nose-root. Going inward one has to enter realm of subtility. Yogis call it Chacri Mudra. It is also mentioned in Gita. Meditation phase contains three types:

1. Meditation upon Guru's phsyical form.

2. By concentrating on the place of the spirit in the body one feels light like a lamp. This is subtle medtiation.

3. The comes Guru's light form above the path of God's and ancestors and stays with the Sikh(learner).

This way seeker merges into God. Shamas Tarbez says, "I become you and you become me and my life so that no one distinguish between you and me". Perfect meditation disolves the trinity of worship, worshipper and object of worship. Worshipper and the object of worship become one. God or Guru's beautiful face only can be seen with sacred eyes, look at him with excitement and asthetic sense just as muslims look up the moon of Id, It's is not every eye's business to have a glance of True Guru's light form. Only fortunate ones attain to this status. But human being instead of listening to spiritual voice is given to hear outer souns. Alas ! you are bounded by phsyical chains and do not listen to holy voice of mercyful god.

Love: Love is the divine Law. It will win where reason fails
God is love and love is God


I think this is enough for the sangata, there are soo many techniques in guru ghar, no technique is higher than other or more gurmatiya than others, what is highest of all and common within all is "prem" towards Vahiguroo which leads to "Gurparsad".

IkOngkar Satnaam Kartapurkh Nirbhau Nirvair Akaal Morat Ajooni Saihbhan Gurparsad...

He stayed with a friend of mine once, in the UK a few years ago. According to my friend, he was always up early, doing loads of paath etc ad not talking of anything but Gurbani.

Hard to tell what the truth is here, and what her motivation is for going public now. Why not charge him for harassment? He was in the UK a few weeks ago, did katha without any issues.


rab jaane.

'N30Singh' first compiled this many years ago. It deserves to be made a sticky.


.....Going back to Naam now, there are many techniques how to do jaap of Shabad given to you by mahapursh in form of panj pyares, most of puratan samparda's give you shabad/Gurmantar in amrit sanchar but give you Naam jugti in a separate session alone - mahapursh and jagiaso.

Also may i add it's not proper to say, i got naam amrit from others or mahapursh in form of panj pyares, panj pyares instill naam in you, you get shabad from panj pyares. Naam is inside us day we were in the womb. Naam is everywhere, exist in his creation:

Gurbani says:

Naunidh amrit prabh ka naam, dehi mein iskaa bisraam (GGS : 292, Sukhmani, 23.1).


Anyway here are some of the techniques(jugti) given by mahapursh in the past, they are diffferent. Remember there is no such thing as one technique is better than others, people on this forum should get out from this "bamal bussa" and "dubta" black and white sikhs trying to propagate. Yes certain people find certain techniques comfortabale but they can't say one technique is superior than others.


- Technique given used and given by mahapursh- sant 108 baba sunder singh ji bhindranwale (fetched from gyani thakur singh ji japji sahib katha translations tapes):

Ajapa jap

Jap is of three types:

1. Vachak- Recitten with tongue and can be heard by others.

2: Upas: Recitten with tongue also but less audible.

3. Manas- Meditation of Vahiguroo with mind..meditation through thought process.

First stage of gursikh is Vachak. Gyani Ji gave example of how siriman 108 sant baba sunder singh ji maharaj bhindranwaley used to do japji sahib first in one hour, then do second japji sahib in half an hour, then do third japji sahib in 15 minuites, then do fourth japji sahib in 10 minutes, then fifth time do japji sahib in 5 minutes.


- Techniques given by sant baba isher singh ji rara sahib waley (sub branch of bhai dya singh samparda)

Jap(meditation) is also done by:

1. Baikri Bani- When one recites naam with javan(tongue), hout(lips), khaieyal(thoughts) that is called Baikari Bani.

2. Madhma Bani- When one recites naam in Kant(throat) without moving lips...just with the thoughts is called Madhma Bani.

3. Pasanti Bani- When one recites naam in hirda(heart).

4. Para Bani- When one recites naam in Nabhi(Navel) without moving tongue and with the thoughts. In this stage vahiguroo naam gets infused in rom rom of the body. Meditation goes in automatic mode. There is no need for concentration.

Gurmukh Rom Rom Har Dhavaie ||

After 4th stage, one gets to very high stage. Where one can hear(jap-resonance,dhuni) with their surati in pretty much everything in this creation ie- walls, birds, leafs, animals, human being, even from realms (bhramands).

Dharat Patal Akash Hai Meri Jindaeriye
Sab Har Har Naam Dhavaiya Ram ||

2nd technique:

Va Va Da Abhyaas Nabhi Ch Karo
(Doing Simran of Va Va on Nabhi/Navel )

Hi Hi Di Awaaz Hiradaie Ch
(Doing Simran of hi hi on the heart)


Gu Gu Kant ch Karo
(Doing Simran Gu on the kant/near throat)

And

Ru Ru Di Awaaz Mastaak mai Ratan Kartaie Hoye Birti Kou Nirgun Atma Mein Lin Kar Duo

(Doing Simran Ru Ru on the Mastaak/third eye)

So its a cycle - Va ( on Nabhi) Hi(on heart) Gu (on Kant) Ru(On Mastak/third eye).

Thats one cycle....I dont know...this cycle or stage explained in the book is the first intial stage to the simran or second last stage in simran....

3rd technique:

This is also included in Soraj Parkash Granth.

According to a prasang(divan) on chapter of mata ajeeto kaur reaching enlightment. Mata ajeto kaur was under guidance of siri guroo gobind singh where she was taught all the "YOG SADHNA/Shabad Surat Marg where chakras are used", when mata ji did yog sadhna, when her birthi(dhyaan) reached - Trikurti/3rd eye..she started seeing the future e.g. the besiegement of Sri Anandpur Sahib, leaving the kila etc and the shaheedia of the char sahibjadey. After seeing this in a dream she asked Guru Gobind Singh jee whether this was true, Guru Sahib confirmed this.

Mata jee then told guru jee that she could not see all this pain happen and would rather die/ leave for Sachkand and asked permission to leave her body. Guru Sahib jee granted her permission and subsequently she did ishnaan, a Sukhmani Sahib da Paath and then left her body by reciting the mantar and with that mantar taking her prana on top and realising it via bhram randar nari( subtle vein) through dasam dwara.

4th technique:

First concentrate on Sargun saroop of Vahiguroo while reciting shabad ie- Gur Ki Morat Man mein dhyaan Guru Ka shabad mantar man maan

then after mind becomes subtle, that shabad will automatically take you upper realms and that shabad will infuse in your surat


Techniques used and given by sant jawala singh ji harkhowaley (sub branch of bhai dya singh samparda)

Naam Simran Jagutiya by Sant Baba Jawala Singh Harkhowaley

1st technique

First do simran with the help of bakhri bani(recitation of tongue) and focus on trikurti
( between the eye brows) focus so hard and meditate so hard that you are exhausted consequently you will start meditating automatically on throat chakra with Madhma Bani (thought provoked automatic recitation) then focus so hard on madhma bani that it gets exhausted. Again consequently meditation will start in the heart and continue to the Nabhi (Navel). In the navel, guru’s jap awakens the kundalani in the navel. By doing this.,tenth door(dasva dwara) opens. By doing this technique your meditation process never stops and you are experience doesn’t break.

2nd technique.

Meditation using Vahiguroo Mantra...

Meditate with repeating Vahiguroo with your breath. When you inhale, take Vahi with your breath and take it all the way to Nabhi crossing your heart. Then take Gu from your heart to Ru from your trikurt by doing this... Tenth door (dasama dwara) opens..

Next stages (When trikurti opens) you see some light, first you see red then you see white and then you see the light that is so strong that makes thousands of suns and moons look dim but it doesn’t hurt your eyes ..It’s a feeling of calmness and rain of Amrit(Nectar).

That is followed with sweet(celestial ) sounds which are called Panj Shabad (Anhad Shabad)…focus on that shabad but you have to transcend the point that yogi gets to because that point is still bound by creations and its only when your ego dissolves that you achieved what you meant to be achieving..

Naad means sound (dhuni) and there are two types of sound

Aahat and Anhat

1. Aahat caused by two things colliding .This breaks down into thee parts 1. Breath = vocal sound 2. Sound which comes from instruments 3. Combinations of both and that’s where it collides.

2. Anhat: Heaven celestial sounds.

3rd technique:

Sant Jagjit Singh Herkhowal here is narrating the instructions given to his father on how to perform Naam Abhyaas by Baba Jwaalaa Singh Herkhowal.

Another technique by harkhowaley mahapursh

They are;

Preparations:

1) First recite Japuji Sahib

2) Then perform ardas requesting permission to recite naam and to be devoid of distractions

3) A mat should be laid on the floor, covered by a woolen cloth and then a white sheet

4) A pitcher of water is put to one side

5) The surroundings are adorned with incense and flowers

6) Sit facing the rising sun (east) in sidhaasana

7) Each hand should be placed on the knees in vairaag mudra

8) Keep spine erect, head high

9) To initially control the senses close left eye and with the right focus on the tip of your nose

10) Then recite mool mantar until you have strong concentration

11) Then recite gurmantar - first with baikri bani, then so only you can hear, then in the throat, then heart then navel chakra at belly button

12) This stage will take time but will be achieved with practice

13) once there, fix attention at triputi (between eyebrows)

14) He then explains trikuti and then way to dasam duar

15) The recitation of gurmantar should proceed with 'vaa' in stomach chakra, 'hi' in heart, 'guu' in throat and 'ruu' in triputi.

16) Four types of rasna - baikari (aloud), madama (in throat), pachyanti (voice in hriday/heart), and para bani (nabi).

17) Ru meaning light brings light to triputi (which is above the trikuti)

18) Therefore placing each of the gurmantar in each of the chkras in ascending order

19) explanation is then given of the nature of the experience that arises out of this practice, the final opening of saharakamal chakra and the experience of advaita.

20) There is further guidance on seasonal changes that need to be made, and issues of daily practice.

4th technique by harkhowaley mahapursh:

Baba jawala singh ji answered:

Hey pyaray gurmukho, the shabad, which is the emanation and form of guruji’s heart, that shabad is brahm. Get absorbed in that shabad and you will find that you no longer exist and that is the way that you will get muktee. Guruji has used the following lines in gurbani to explain this……

1)sabad gur peera, gaher gambeera, bin shabadai jag baugaanang.
2)Satgur bachan, bachan hai satgur paadhur mukat janavago
3)Etc etc (more bani was said to reinforce the point)


It is for this reason that gurmat is focusing on god through shabad ( gurmat hai shabad brahm dee upaashna) because shabad has 3 forms according to wise mahapurakhs:


1)asthool: when your eyes gaze on a granth and you read those letters out loud
2)misrat: when one’s birti (focus/attention) becomes attuned to the shabad, the shabad is both suksham and asthool because the mind is made of the (tatta da sato ansh)….the sat (virtue/true/purest) form of the qualities.
3)Sukham= sookham (astral/spiritual)

When the shabad abhyaas (meditation on the shabad) surpasses the consciousness(surat) of the mind, and gets absorbed in the paar baani (the celestial emanations of the primal sound)..(this is also called, naabhi di baani (sounds of the naval chakra). That baani has the ability to take the jeev’s surti (the consciousness of the being) to the pinnacle point of brahm (the point from which creation was started).

For this reason, you should all focus on the shabad.

5th technique: Viraat Upsana

Recite vahiguroo through your mind and at the same time visualize first start with people/places you dislike - see light in them then move on bringin the whole creation (parkirti) inside and try to feel as if every inch of this universe is reciting vahiguroo's name - leafs, waterfall, valley, tree's , wind.. as if you are seeing light's everything.

this way our mind which is dualistic see two (see god separate from creation) changes into non-dualistic mode which is see oneness (god's light in every being).

Techniques by sant baba aya singh ji hoti mardan (sub branch of bhai dya singh samparda). Sant aiya singh ji was murshid of sant jawala singh ji. Note this technique is given to sangat where there is not only sikhsangat but everyone- hindu and muslim:

refererence: The Radiance of complete journey to Akaal Purkh
chapter- Sant baba Aiya Singh Hoti Mardan giving sermons to Sangat.

Diffferent ways of Meditation.

1. Meditating by focusing eyesight on rising sun. It's done in winter. Hindus call it trianghlar concentration.

2. Shugal Mayyat or Mansuri..some hindus call it dead body's posture it is done by lying on ground on back with mind upwards, body completely loose and eye sight focused on behind the brows.

3. Breathing control in which attention is focused on third mole. It's equal to the first one and is done via padam asan(cross legged position)

4. Attention is focused inside as well as outside on the fae of Guru(mentor).

In this way, one enjoys the unique fruits of spiritual life and hidden secrets are uncovered.

5. Shugal Ishnan Jat- In this, attention is focued on kalava shanovari due to this practice the mediator gets absorbed into his own self.

6. Shugal Aina (Means of Mirror)- It involves eye sight focussing on eye pupil in the reflection. This way eye-pupils over turn inwardly and get's to white spot or third mole.

7. Half awakened position- By this eyes are constantly kept open to avoid sleep. Therefore even though in sleep one remains half awake.

8. Inner form and intellect are concentrated upon white spot.

9. Eye- sight is focussed on the nose-tip then gradually moves backward to the nose-root. Going inward one has to enter realm of subtility. Yogis call it Chacri Mudra. It is also mentioned in Gita. Meditation phase contains three types:

1. Meditation upon Guru's phsyical form.

2. By concentrating on the place of the spirit in the body one feels light like a lamp. This is subtle medtiation.

3. The comes Guru's light form above the path of God's and ancestors and stays with the Sikh(learner).

This way seeker merges into God. Shamas Tarbez says, "I become you and you become me and my life so that no one distinguish between you and me". Perfect meditation disolves the trinity of worship, worshipper and object of worship. Worshipper and the object of worship become one. God or Guru's beautiful face only can be seen with sacred eyes, look at him with excitement and asthetic sense just as muslims look up the moon of Id, It's is not every eye's business to have a glance of True Guru's light form. Only fortunate ones attain to this status. But human being instead of listening to spiritual voice is given to hear outer souns. Alas ! you are bounded by phsyical chains and do not listen to holy voice of mercyful god.

Love: Love is the divine Law. It will win where reason fails
God is love and love is God


I think this is enough for the sangata, there are soo many techniques in guru ghar, no technique is higher than other or more gurmatiya than others, what is highest of all and common within all is "prem" towards Vahiguroo which leads to "Gurparsad".

IkOngkar Satnaam Kartapurkh Nirbhau Nirvair Akaal Morat Ajooni Saihbhan Gurparsad...

Vaah Bhai Sikha! dhanvaad.