Maha Kharag Singh

vinegar. Among sikh groups eg Nihung, Nirmala, Sevapanthi, Taksaal, Akj, Nanaksar etc, its the Udhasis that claim to have the know how on this kind of stuff. Akj, Taksaal Nanaksar Soho Road mainstream of them disregard anything to do with the occult, they are aso the ones who say if someone holds a gun to your head start saying waheguru and a magical force field will form around you and the bullet will freeze in mid air matrix style. From my EXPERIENCE the only non Udasi place is baba vadhbhad singh jis dera who may i add use Udasi methds in their exorcisms.

ill tell you something never ever ever unless you some form of protection from Tantra or Kala Alam go to a Pir or Udhasi, because not all of them can be trusted. Usualy what happens is that these people will get rid of your main ailment but then give you a minor one which cause you to keep going back and give them money to "sort" you out. With me the very first Udhasi dera that i went to was one which was in my family, some of you may have heard of Kala Sangha and the Baba Kahan Das Ji Dera, Baba Ji's gaddi is within our family (naanke side) and when i went there my Grandmothers brother told me about the order and he said that I had protection from any form of Tantra/ Kala Alam due to A) me being Amritdhari Wearing a kirpan and C) for being Nitnemi. And it was totally on that basis why i went to visit a few Hindu Tantrics and a few Pirs. I once even tested a Pir Baba and i had an experience which i would never forget, which made me even more paka in my Nitnem, and after when i got back to Kale Sanghe i got shitttar from my Nanis Mama for testing the guy, because he said if he cant do anything to you he can send something to follow you and torment your family. Because there are two types of Jadoo, one is Apaa Jadoo which involves rituals and the other is the most dangerous Masani, which is the type of jadoo which causes possesions because its the ruh of a dead person. Apparently what they do is that they (the tantrics) wander around siveh and look for bones of the deceased, and its now common that there is always one person on guard whenever a funeral pyre is being burnt. Because its with the bones of the dead person they bring back its ruh and they bind it to do the tantrics bidding. And the most thing that the masani/ ruh wants is mukti and the tantric will make it do its bidding if it wants its mukti. Theres two ways in which the masani can get its mukti one is by the tantric releasing it and the other is most common way, where whoever the masani possess will harm him/her so much until he/she comes to an untimely death hence releasing the Masani. My Nanis mama also said that sometimes when he confronts these entities they ask for mukti but he cant give it because if he does then the person who the masani is possessing will take that person with it too. So he has to force the entity out by hook or crook, and sometimes he has to resort to beating the masani with his "Bhairo" da baseball bat until it leaves the poor person.

I know this is going to sound really weird and just to let you guys know I don't practice the dark arts but I have observed many exorcisms, by both Hindu rituals and Sikh'ish. It was just out of a general interest in this Grey area that lead me to do some research and see some of these rituals. Since the topic is about Sikh perspectives on the issue of exorcism, from what I have seen its the Udhasis who have the knowledge on how to exorcise these Patit Aatmas. If memory serves me correct I think it was Baba Shri Chand Ji who saved the child of some shardhaloos from the clutches of a Rakshash. Even though to the common eye the Udhasis seem to border between Hinduism and Sikhism, the rituals in exorcism do however involve an element of Islam, where names of Pirs are invoked. There are two types of black magic, one is Tantra, and the other is Kala Alam or more commonly Sifli Alam. Tantra is the Hindu version and to counter act it the Udhasis would invoke Bhairo, Devi and the power of Mast Malangs, and to counter Sifli Alam (Muslim version) Pirs Malangs and Masts are invoked. Even though spiritual intermediates such as Masts, Malangs, Pirs, Devi and Bhairo are used the main basis of the rituals were literally begging Almighty God to rid the victim of his/her ailment/s. And i must say these events are very eerie indeed and in no way from my experience do i feel that it was an act, because there is always some flaw in an act which can give it away, but these that i witnessed were very real.

there is one spelling mistake and its a typing error im sure pm saab will not be nit picky

ye it was only put up today

ALL UK RESIDENTS SIGN THE PETITION!!!!!! http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/BanSinghisKinng/ AKAAL! SAT SRI AKAAL! and can anyone whos a member of any other sikh forum please make a post with this link!

this man is seriously dangerous. I think were in need of a fatwa Nihung Style, what i find so damning is his comment "Sikhism is a house of heresy that should be at best burnt to the ground." admin cut

way to hit the nail on the head deepsingh! LOL! heres a better one and quite freaky sufi chanting http://youtube.com/watch?v=xY2Fp1ZcChY&feature=related

what a admin cut.

prof surrinder singh has done it in raag at an akj event: http://rapidshare.com/files/79728287/www.s...ee_Hoe.mp3.html

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Shaheediya Brother you post has to be the best post of 2007!!!!!!!!!!!

laalsingh bach ke reh sin is heavy in your palla with these blasphemous remarks! BTW Satguru Gobind Singh Ji makes many references to the Respected PROPHET Muhhamad, in Satgur Dasam Granth Sahib. And if you question Satguru Dasam Granth then a question mark will be blatantly seen over your remarks and scholarly authenticity.

i have to say chatangas bulbulhampton or better still black country accent makes it impossible not to laugh!

better still just pick up a Budha Dal Gutka, the Sundar Gutka that is.

i would think it would be SAT

i think its when sati mata committed suicide that he shed tears.

veere as i said, science isnt certain whereas dharam is, at some points science will coincide with dharam and at other points it will not. Essentially its about trust and faith, when science leaves the palla of religion will your faith falter or will it remain atoot on amar dharam, which is certain and unchanging. About all that energy stuff, when i personally meditate the things that i experience are energy related (which i will not discuss any further as it is private to me) hence my view on God is formed on those experiences. And there are many refferences in Gurbani relating to one primal ENERGY or SHAKTI as its translated into sanskrit/hindi/whatever. And sometimes i feel that yes its sometimes best to remain an agiani that to have your sentiments surt when science goes up the back ally, but then that all boils down to how strong your faith is. And to some extent i agree with your notion that using science as a medium can have an adverse effect, but then before the movement tof science towards atheism weren't science and religion drinking out of the same cup?

Fateh! N. Another view of mine is that Sikhi doesn't need to be ever subjected to questioning or justified for scientific approval. However if science is in favor of Sikhi then there is no harm in using science to propagate Sikhi by the medium of science. Some Sehajdhari Sikhs (in the extreme case of atheists or typical Punjabi background confused English desis) need such arguments to pull them towards the path of Sikhi. But on the whole of your argument I do agree that Sikhi or Faith is amar its unchanging whereas science isnt certain.

Bhai Saab Ji, as i have stated before i have limited knowledge. These statements I have gained by doing sangat with some Singhs, in India and some Hindu Shaastris (a particular group who dont do murti pooja) therefore i dont have sufficient evidence or knowledge to support such statements. I put them forward merely as a perspective of some individuals. Secondly, about the Shakti bit from my own understanding just like there are many levels one must surpass to reach The Almighty I believe that The Lord presents itself to that individual at that stage in the respective form or swaroop eg one gains Ridhi Sidhi. Just like Bahadur was talking about Sahariat Dharam.......Haqiqat Dharam where Shariat is the lowest and Haqiqat is that highest. My personal view is that The Almighty is an energy, and intelligent energy one which we have not discovered and one we never will. As per Quantum Physics yes there are four fundamental energies. But just as the proton was thought to be a fundamental particle at one time in history and then proved to have inside a selection of quarks. There is one unifying energy which is uncomprahendable and wont be found. We believe that emotion is our gateway to the house of the Lord, and that its through Bhagti Bhavana we gain the strength to knock at that door. But what is emotion scientifically they are chemical and hormonal imbalances which cause us to "feel" in that way. If these chemicals were to be broken down fundamentally they are stores of energy, and if one can ever identify which energy it is e.g. electromagnetic, then as i said there has to be an energy which is beyond these "four fundamental" energy which allows the universe to run like an engine. And its that very energy that i feel Satguru Nanak was reffering to as everyone has that spark of God. i would suggest brother that you do some research in to the String Theory, which is the the theory that one day will take over the Big Bang theory which has actually been disproved. In that theory it talks about strings of vibrating energy. Now if we were to put that into the context of Gurbani does Naad ring a bell. Where The Lord is the sound current which causes every thing to be. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

hey dont be so discriminating! theres cheene and japanee in there aswell as well as kaale!

aaja putar tere te mei tantra karda fer dekhda tere kol kere bhoot ounde ya paath karde vele!!!!!![schild=9 fontcolor=000000 shadowcolor=C0C0C0 shieldshadow=1]Aum Hreem Kleem Namah Swaha!!!![/schild]

Brother Niranjana, from what I have heard. Some people believe i.e. those who are worshipers of Shiva and/or Devi that Dasme Satguru was a Human Avtar of Rudra (Shiva's most fearful form) Shakti (his power) Hence why his affiliation with blue and the Dastaar Bunga and concept of Farla. As per my limited knowledge, there is one main Shakti, the universal energy which is omnipresent and is the cause for all lifes existent i.e. the spark in the engine of the universe. Then there are many Advait Shaktis (mystical) and then the lowly Ridhi Sidhi Nivasini Shaktis. I would love to have your insight into this...

vijay whats all this low caste this low caste that and please clarify who you are talking about when you use references such as bazigar. your english is terrible that why i cant make sense of what your saying, malwe dea shera tu hi kuch dass ki eh vijay ki bhonk reha hai?

i dont understand this guy. do us all a favour. who's bloody side are you on and dont come out with im on both sides, next time please use names instead of references.