chatanga1

The next line makes no sense from the english translation either.
 
"with my hands i will tear you off"...
 
I think it should translated as
 
"I will hold you here (as a aprisoner) all day and night.

Great stuff. Saw this on "Devon ke Dev - Mahadev."   That was an excellent series.
 
Maybe we should look at some of the gurmukhi lines to see if they have been translated properly.

I dont think there was any such raja at all.
 
 No, quite the opposite, the charitar says she is the wife of a rich man.

Illegitimate Justifications
Look (below) at how she is trying to justify an immoral act, using religion (Demi-Gods and fear of Hell). This can be seen in history too, where misguided people use religion as a tool, to justify sinful acts.
(She said,) ‘When a sexually distressed woman comes to a male,
‘And that male who turns her back disappointed, is worthy of hell.’(l8)'
(She said,) ‘Krishna was worshipped too, and he had indulged in love plays.
‘He made love with Radhika, but they never went to hell.(20)
‘With five elements Brahama, the God, created human-beings,
And He, Himself initiated love in men and women.(2l)
 
Bhul chuk maaf

have a read of this: ( i have bolded, underlined and separated the text to make it easier to read).
 
http://www.sarbloh.info/htmls/durbar_dasam8.html
 
Treh Charittar (Charitropakhyaan)
In Budha Dal tradition the stories told in Treh Charittar are without doubt all accepted as Guru Gobind Singh Ji's works. An extract from the writings of a British student of Indian religions may shed light on how exactly one such story came about to be in Dasam Guru Durbar:
 
 
‘In A.D. 1691, or thereabouts, Govind Singh, the tenth and last guru of the Sikhs, celebrated with unusual pomp at Anandpur the gay Hindu saturnailia known as the 'Holi'. Visitors were attracted thither from considerable distances, and amongst others came a young and beautiful Hindu widow named Anup Kaur, a khatrani by caste, and a resident of Lahore. Guru Govind Singh, who was only twenty-five years of age and a particularly handsome man, captivated the susceptible heart of the young widow, and she resolved to try her arts upon him. It appears that at this period the chief object of Govind’s life was to induce, I might almost say compel, the goddess Devi to appear to him and promise him her assistance against the Muhammadan rulers of the land, who were carrying on a bitter religious persecution of Hindus. For the attainment of the end he had in view,
 
Govind had gathered many Brahmans together, for, like all Hindus, he believed that if the appropriate religious ceremonies were correctly carried out, the goddess, however reluctant, would be constrained to make her appearance. It is well known to the Hindus that besides the Brahmans there are others who, by the practice of painful austerities, have become possessed of great, sometimes unlimited, power. These thaumaturgists are to be found only here and there, it is true, amongst the sadhus, therefore, Govind frequently restored for advice and assistance in his endeavours to propitiate the goddess Devi. Having come to know this, a happy idea entered the head of the lovesick Anup Kaur. She would personate a sadhu, enter into close relations with Govind, and, in the end, attract and ensnare the object of her passion. In pursuance of this plan, she disguised herself as a sadhu, and, being possessed of ample means, she easily secured accomplices in her scheme. She took up her abode at a spot within a short distance of Anandpur, and her satellites soon let it be known through the countryside that a most holy and learned Synyasi had favoured the neighbourhood with his presence. It was also given out that this most saintly Mahatma had a special key to open the heart of the goddess Devi. The important news, of course, reached Govind, for whom it had been specially prepared, and he forthwith instructed a confidential servant to arrange an early interview with the new-comer, the youthful sadhu, however, betrayed no eagerness to meet the Guru, and merely sent word to the effect that if Govind wished to come he might do so, but on condition that he came without any pomp or following, in an ascetic garb, at midnight and alone.
 
 
These conditions excited the imagination of Govind Singh, and enhanced the importance of the sadhu in his eyes. So, having donned the orange-coloured vestments of an ascetic, he sought the saintly Mahatma in the stillness of the night at the appointed hour. He was graciously received, and the usual exchange of compliments and ideas took place. After a little while, on some pretext or other the sadhu retired, and the then reappeared before the astonished Guru decked in silks and jewellery, a young and fascinating woman, with every attraction that could lure an ordinary mortal to her embraces. But Govind, like Joseph under somewhat similar circumstances, kept his virtue, and, after rebuking Anup Kaur, made good his escape; not however, before the disappointed temptress had raised the cry of "Thief!" Govind, who was never at any time deficient in artfulness, joined in the cry, and siezing Anup Kaur’s brother in the darkness, added greatly to the confusion, in which he managed to slip away safely. This adventure of Govind’s bore fruit of another kind also. The wiles of Anup Kaur had made a deep impression on him, and he wrote, or more likely collected, no less than four hundred and four stories on the wiles of women, for the timely warning, it is said, of his simple followers.’
('The Mystics, Ascetics, and Saints of India', by J.C. Oman, 1903, Pa 196-198)
 
Within Dasam Guru Durbar, it continues to state that Anup Kaur became an ideal chaste Sikh woman, and was later kidnapped by the Muslim chiefs of Malerkotala. Rather than surrender her honour she took her own life. The Muslims buried her as was their custom.
When Banda Bahadur attained ascendancy in Punjab, the Akali Nihang Khalsa went and retrieved the corpse of the venerable Anup Kaur and cremated her according to Khalsa Sikh rites.
 
 
It appears that the "mantar" was the mantar to make the devi pargat from the above text. Bombshell.
 
 

Jaggi as I have read needed a topic for his PHD and wanted to one a PHD on Dasam Granth being the work of Guru Gobind Singh, as at the time he believed that Guru Sahib was the author. But as Dharam Pal Ashta had already done such a PHD paper only a few years earlier, Jaggi was asked to submit an anti-thesis instead. So in order to get his PHD he did this and based it on the findings of previous groups that were anti-DG such as Bhasaurias. He rehashed some of their findings and submitted it.  Later some years on, he came round to accepting it as Guru krit again.

FYI this is from a  mobile app called  "Isearchgurbani".

Last line.

Quick observations:
 
This is the first time a charitar continues across several stories If im not mistaken, Anandpur was not located in the state of Kahlur, as the text states. However it is most likely talking about the current day Anandpur since it mentions proximity to Naina Devi and the satluj river. This could mean, that the purpose of the text is early on to show, that it is not a historical fact sakhi that is being conveyed here- it is a literary device to convey a message. This is the first charitar so far wherein there is a "preaching" and moralizing element involved, - long passages of philosophical content and argumentation. I do not recall any of the earlier charitars having any moralizing messages conveyed by the character in the story  
The moralizing passages are interesting. It appears that the argumentation of rejeection is two fold . One argumentation is of a higher, philosophical and educated mode, while the other is of a more "low", secular, straight forward way.
Examples of the higher form of argumentation:
‘Righteousness endows auspicious birth and righteousness confers
beauty.
‘The righteousness augments the wealth and holiness and the
righteousness idealises the sovereignty.  
Examples of the secular and more straight forward kind of argumentation:
‘Why should I abandon righteousness on your instance and make
myself worthy of hell? (l6)
‘Acquiescing to your request,Acquiescing to your request, I am not going to copulate with you,
‘Because, in my heart, I am apprehensive of denigrating my family.
‘Deserting behind my married woman (wife), I will never have sex with you.
‘I will never be able to find a place in the court of Lord of
Righteousness.’(l7)

Aren’t you ashamed of yourself?’( 19)
‘Not to abandon my wife, I will never have sex with you.(24)
‘Just because you say, why should I have sex with you?
‘I am afraid of being put in the hell.
‘To copulate with you is like disowning the righteousness,
And my story will go around the whole world.(25)
 
It appears, that the text asks the question: What kind of argumentation do you use to get your message across? Anoop does not seem to understand the higher form of argumentation, - therefore the raja keeps "lowering" his line of argumentation as the charitar continues - to make it more relatable for Anoop. it starts high and becomes lower and lower / more straight forward..
Interestingly, the Ariill Chand on page 60 wherein he praises her and then slams her in the last line. That is very similiar to the kind of narrative used in the Zafarnama, where Aurangzeb in many lines are praised for his military and political qualities, but then slammed at the end "agar door ast deen" - but you are far from religion. In a way, building up the person in order to slam him down. This happens on page 60 here - even though you are preety (building the person up ) I still have not fallen for you (slap in the face- wake up call).
Then after a long time, on page 61 onwards the argumentation is raised higher once again, slowly by slowly. .

Wanted to share this video here from decades ago, of Baba Trilok Singh Ji from Tarna Dal, Khiala pind Amritsar. Baba Ji is also the nephew of Baba Thakur Singh of Damdami taksal.
 
 

Yes lets have a look at 22. These Charitars are supposed to have some kind of background as to why Guru Sahib wrote this text in the first place according to Pyara Singh Padam.

Although we generally assume, that Panjab was the scene of mass murders of Sikhs during the partition, there was also another battle ground, which saw scenes from West Panjab being re-enacted on its minorities. I found this article and wouild like to share it with the forum members, and encourage members to also share any links/stories, that they feel the cyber sangat may benefit from.


from :http://www.khalidhas...e-untold-story/

The savagery that gripped the Subcontinent at a moment in history which should have been its most glorious remains inexplicable. While a great deal of academic work has been completed in India on the massacres and the movement of millions from one part of the divided land to the other, little of that has been done on our side, which is yet another pity that can be added to the long list of pities that every Pakistani carries in his heart.

Some years ago, I published a book of reminiscences about Jammu and how its Muslim population had been all but decimated in 1947, ironically with the connivance, if not at the directions, of the Maharajas government, which was supposed to have protected them. That slim book remains the only first-hand account, as far as I know, of what life was like for the Muslims of Jammu before 1947 and what happened to them as India and Pakistan awoke to freedom. Some copies of the book, Memory Lane to Jammu, found their way to Jammu and several people who read it later said that they really had no idea what had happened to the Muslims of Jammu city and outlying areas in 1947. Included in the book was a first-hand account recorded for the late Justice Muhammad Yusuf Saraf by Dr Abdul Karim, more than twenty of whose family members were killed and whose daughter was abducted, never to be found. He himself received eleven sword and knife wounds on his body and was left for dead.

A couple of months ago, I received an email from Bal Kishan Gupta, a retired engineer who lives in Georgia. He wrote, I read your article on Jammu 1947 on the website. It is a heart rending account of the massacre of Muslims in Jammu. I am from Mirpur and was a witness to the slaughter of the Hindus and Sikhs of Mirpur. As a matter of fact, I am one of the few survivors of the Alibeg concentration camp. As Muslim refugees from Jammu mark the anniversary of the November 5 Jammu killings, the Hindu and Sikh survivors of Mirpur remember the November 25 holocaust of Mirpur. He asked if I would publish his story and I said I would.

The account he sent me is harrowing. He was only ten at the time but he says he has a photographic memory. Many members of his immediate family, including some of his uncles and his great grandfather, a man of ninety, were killed in Mirpur. Some of what Gupta has recorded I have tried to corroborate from sources on our side but without luck. Hardly anything is on record. Even Justice Saraf in his two-volume history of the freedom movement in the State has confined his account to the military encounters that took place between bands of Pathan irregulars, sections of the Pakistan army and freebooters and the remnants of the Maharajas forces. It is not a satisfactory account and its gung-ho, super-patriotic tone is troubling because I expected more objectivity from a judge and Kashmiri patriot.

Justice Saraf writes that Mirpur district had Hindu majorities in its three principal towns of Mirpur, Kotli and Bhimber. Many Hindus fleeing from West Punjab had taken refuge in Mirpur town, swelling its non-Muslim population to 20,000. According to him, local mujahids and Pakistani volunteers cut off the Mirpur Cantt and a 500-strong force moved towards Mirpur town which was surrounded by the second week of November 1947. A force of 1,000 of tribesmen from Dir also joined in. Most of the atrocities committed against the non-Muslim residents of Mirpur were by these men, though Saraf does not record that. The outer defences of Mirpur city crumbled and many houses were set on fire. He writes, At about 4 pm (on 23 November) a column of humanity was seen emerging from the barbed wire enclosure on the Eastern side, made up of civilians and flanked by Dogra troops, which soon abandoned their helpless charges. The caravan scattered and as Saraf puts it their condition was pitiable; the effects of the fighting and the conditions of siege were clearly noticeable; they were emaciated, exhausted and frightened. By the evening, there was no Hindu or Sikh left in Mirpur town. Saraf records that while some Pathans as well as local Muslims wanted to kill the Hindus and abduct their women, they were prevented from doing so and the people who had now become refugees in their own land, were sent to Alibeg Gurudwara which was turned into a refugee camp.

Guptas memories are different. As a ten-year-old child I, along with 5,000 Hindus and Sikhs, was held prisoner in the Alibeg prison. On March 16, 1948, only about 1,600 prisoners walked out from Alibeg alive. I was one of them. Most of the survivors of Alibeg have died since the horrific massacres. As one of its few survivors, I feel compelled to document the events I witnessed. Around November 25, 1947, there were nearly 25,000 Hindus and Sikhs living in Mirpur. During the citys capture, close to 2,500 were killed in the infernos that erupted due to Pakistani artillery fire. Another 2,500 escaped with the retreating Jammu and Kashmir army. The remaining 20,000 were marched in a procession towards Alibeg. Along the way, Pakistani troops and Pathans killed about 10,000 of the captured Hindu and Sikh men and kidnapped over 5,000 women. The 5,000 Hindus and Sikhs who survived the 20-mile trek to Alibeg were imprisoned. In Janaury 1948, the Red Cross rescued 1,600 of the survivors from Alibeg. Between 1948 and 1954, around 1,000 abducted Hindu and Sikh women were recovered from Pakistan and Azad Kashmir.

Gupta writes, My grandmother Kartar Devi, my paternal uncle Mohanlal Gupta, and my maternal great-grandfather Lalman Shah were some of those who died in the infernos of Mirpur. My mother Padma Devi and my aunts, Rajmohni Gupta and Sushila Gupta, were some of the women kidnapped from the Mirpur courthouse. My wifes grandmother Diwan Devi Gupta and aunt were among those killed during the forced march towards Alibeg. My wifes cousin, Sesh Gupta, was one of the girls kidnapped by Pathans. Her fate is not known to this day. My mothers uncles, Lal Chand Dhangeryal, Chander Prakash Dhangeryal, Dina Nath Dhangeryal, Khemchand Bhagotra and her many cousins (whose names I do not remember) were killed. I saw Sardar Ibrahim in Alibeg surrounded by his bodyguards. The only helpful Muslims to visit Alibeg were Chaudhri Abdul Aziz of Datial village, who saved many Hindu children and women in his village, and Fateh Mohammed of Serai Alamgir who saved some Hindus from being slaughtered.

Many Mirpuri Hindus and Sikhs settled in Jammu, where there exists a Mirpur Road and a memorial sacred to the memory of the men, women and children who were killed for no other reason except that they were Hindus and Sikhs. I close this sad story with a snatch from the poem Faiz Ahmed Faiz wrote on his return from Dhaka: When will the eye behold the sight of grass without blemish? How many rains will it take for the blood spots to wash away?

http://www.talesofpanchatantra.com/works/book1-the-separation-of-friends
 
Reading this is amazing. You can the ethos and structure in this text that we see in Srii Charitropakhyan.

No there is no mention of that. But this is also a charitar where there is an absence of details of sexual activity between characters.

Dohra
 
In between the Ganga and Jamuna there was a valley called Kailakhar
here people of this place lived as humans in animal form 1
 
chaupai
 
Then the Minister began to speak
Listen o King who is dear to my life
One story I wish to narrate to you
which will get rid of your pain. 2
 
dohra
The King of Kailakhar had a woman
Who fearing the rule would come to end had this idea in her mind 3
 
Chaupai
 
Prem Kaur was the Queen
Who feared because of the King's old age
In who's abode there was not one son
This worry was always on her mind 4
 
Dohra
 
There was no son in the family and the King had become old
He was unable to perform intercourse and sire offspring 5
 
Chaupai
 
She then created a charade
To stop the Royal Palace slipping out of her hands
I shall get a son from another person
And announce it as the King's own body (ie his son) 6
 
Dohra
 
There was a pregnant woman who she called to her
And let the rumour start that she, the Queen was pregnant 7
 
She gave great wealth to obtain the (womans) son
And announced a son had taken birth in the King's House 8
 
Great wealth was given to singers, poets and musicians
And named him Sher Singh to everyone's approval 9
 
Chaupai
 
After some days the King passed away
And Kingship passed to Sher Singh
O King O King everyone called him
but no-one knew the truth behind it. 10
 
Dohra
 
Under the lines of destiny, a poor person became a King
He was made the King's son and then King by a womans charade. 11
 
Ending
 
 
 

Who fearing the rule would come to end had this idea in her mind 3
 
This is the correct translation of the line.

I wonder where the story of Madhav Kaam Kandla came into this. It has been disproved by scholars.  Prof Anurag Singh has researched raag Mala for over 11 years and has shown a lot of evidence that the Kaam Kandla connection is false.

http://www.gsahota.com/sarbloh/sarbloh.html#kahnsingh

This charitar obviosly has to do with the prominent concept of royal dynasties and how to continue a dynasty. It was very normal in human history that the females of harem's would plot and plan how to make sure their own sons were to take over power. If you read the story of Hindu and Muslim kings of India and the Middle East this is something that keeps happening again and again.
The way I see it, the story raises a discussion on legitimacy of the throne, - is being the son really all it requires to become a heir to the throne? Human history shows that many were of this belief, - if that is all it takes, then what do you do with all those fraud cases where the person sitting on the throne is not even the real son ? It debunks the whole notion of heirship and sitting on the throne, if it can be manipulated that easily.
According to the Hikayat, a true king is he who has wisdom and justice, - not bloood lines.

This is the name of the sack that goods are put in, that are carried by animals.  didn't know myself, looked it up on net.

time for another charitar @paapiman ?

Could be a reason why some of the old granths are so hard to read.

One thing that we can see from the above handwritten bani if the Gurus is that the "kanna" is not the short vertical line we see today. There is just a dot. Any ideas if this was the norm and when it changed to the vertical half line?

Wanted to add this video, of what I think is the chhauni at Harian Bela. It seems quite an old video given the recording quality.
 
 

In Ambala. The Sikh guy was in a bus when a yong ruffian came on board. There was an altercation between the two. The ruffian called some of his friends and they took the Sikh guy off the bus and attacked him.
 
 
right click, and then copy URL number, and then paste it here.