chatanga1

it wasn't even doen respectfully, sikhkhoj called Sant Gurbachan Singh "gurbachana"  a mockery of his name but that was allowed.

it wasn't even doen respectfully, sikhkhoj called Sant Gurbachan Singh "gurbachana"  a mockery of his name but that was allowed.

it wasn't even doen respectfully, sikhkhoj called Sant Gurbachan Singh "gurbachana"  a mockery of his name but that was allowed.

Neo, give everyone a week to re-evaulate and open it again.

You are playing too many games!!... Like Dalsing said - acting like a new movie is coming out and you're presenting the trailer format in small litle bits. Just post your new 19th Century source in one go and lets get the debate going!
The presence of a poets named Shyam and Ram mentioned as "Guru ke pyare" by Bawa Sumer singh is well known . Yet this did'n mean he rejected the Dasam Granth as Guru krit. What was the Guru going to do - reject people in the darbar because of their names? Many poets had the same or similiar names - there were most likely two Bhai Nand Lals as well as two poets named Gurdas, Chand and Chandan,
Here is the 11th line - which Rattan Singh Jaggi most probably left out on purpose - clearly stating the Guru composed writings himself. I very much suspect that the reason you did'n want to scan either is because of the 11th verse!
 
ਦੋਹਰਾ। ਭਾਖਾ ਰਚੀ ਦਿਆਲ ਗੁਰ, ਸਭ ਮਨ ਭਏ ਅਨੰਦ। ਦੁਰਗਮ ਸੁਗਮ ਭਏ ਸਕਲ, ਪੜਿ ਸਿਖਨ ਹੋਇ ਭੰਗ ।੧੧।
So are you playing games because you are bored or what? Scan the Whole sakhi and lets get the discussion going! There are  too many games being played here!  You are seriosly being a Little kid for no reason, - you knew about the 11th verse yet you purposefully kept the debate going around in circles for no reason. The fourth part is also missing from the page.  Scan the sakhi and lets proceed to see what the sakhi says about the Poet's writings and the Guru's rachna. I dont trust that Rattan Singh Jaggi article at all after this serious omission!
 

We have Maharajs word. Do we need to look elsewhere?

We have Maharajs word. Do we need to look elsewhere?

We have Maharajs word. Do we need to look elsewhere?

We have Maharajs word. Do we need to look elsewhere?

We have Maharajs word. Do we need to look elsewhere?

you have proved to me that you are both, through your lies and attempted deceit on this forum.
yet you are so shameless in casting aspersions on others.

Mr Singh Ji, "if i admit" ??? Admit what? I don't need to admit anything, because some of the bani in Dasam Granth has the source already quoted such "Chandi Charitrar being the translation of Sri Markendya Puran".
You would know this if you bothered to look into it, instead of following dhunda.
The problem isn't that Sikhs beleive these words to be the original thoughts of Guru Sahib. The problem is people like you and that liar Asatkiran, who prefer to attach themselves like parasites onto people who know very little themselves.
 

Maharaj used examples from other Hindu granths but also wrote his own pure bani in Sri charitarpkhyian such as Sri chaupi sahib and a lot more. These Hindu granths were not available to lower castes and were in different languages and maharaj Ji wanted his Sikhs and the world to know what is written in granths. The lower caste could not say raam! They had to say Maar instead and if a lower caste did say raam they would have their tounge cut off by Hindu Brahmins. If the lower caste read any hindu Granth they would have taken out their eyes. If the lower caste listened to any Hindu Granth hot wax would be put in their ears. The guru translated a lot of the Hindu granths cause he wanted the lower caste to know about those granths. He wanted his Sikhs regardless of caste to have knowledge of other religions granths as well. Remember maharaj Ji sent Singhs to kanshi to learn about the Vedas etc. Guru Ji also gave his opinion a lot in chaubis avatar and wrote a lot in Sri charitarpkhyian which is dhur ki bani (for example chaupi sahib etc)
The Sri dasam Granth is all written by maharaj Ji and he included his own dhur ki bani and translations and all of it should be respected.

Also a majority of Sikhs that you say don't believe in Sri charitarpkhyian are people who aren't amritdhari. So your point is invalid.
mrsingh if you are afraid of kaam vale tuks then take out all kaam vale tuks in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji cause there are a lot of them. Mrsingh if you are afraid of Hindu stories then you should take out all the Hindu stories in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Do what teja bhasuria did and make your own Granth cause you clearly have a lot of phobias.

Quote 
paapiman, singh123456777, Harjot8963, Raagmala and chatanga1 Ji can all of you kindly clarify whether you believe the 404 Tiya charitars (excluding Sri Benti Chaupai Sahib) to be the original personally-devised (unplagiarised) work of Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj themself or if you believe that the 404 charitars are in fact translations of earlier historic Hindu sexual erotica stories?
Unquote
It does not matter to Sikhs, whether it was written by Satguru jee or approved by Satguru jee --- Either way, we must respect and follow its teachings. Even Bhagat Gurbani and Bhatt Gurbani, were not initially uttered by any of the masters, but approved and included in SSGGSJ.
Bhul chul maaf

It's white feminism.
 
Because they've been majorly suppressed by white men (like a lot of people have....), and Abrahamic faiths - which blame the whole fall of mankind (no less) as the result of some women's weakness (Eve and apple), they have become allergic to seeing ANYTHING written about women that doesn't represent them as perfect, angelic, wholesome, victims.
Like women are incapable of seduction, or have never used their wiles to get what they want. Like women are incapable of strong feelings of lust.....
Having brought Euro-white men to their knees, they think they can now expand their shit onto other communities - and they DON'T LIKE Charitriopakyaan, because it smashes open an element of male and female interpersonal dynamics that they don't feel is flattering. What they don't get is that the work highlights men's weaknesses and gullibility as much as women's.
 
Our own phudhoos hatred of it probably stems from deeply internalised Victorian 'morality' that they've imbibed from Europeans. 

I agree.It doesn't have to be given the status of Gurbani for it to be read by and used as knowledge by the Sikh. Guru Arjan Sahib didn't include Bhai Gurdas' Vaaran in Guru Granth Sahib, but that doesn't mean that we cannot read, respect, understand and follow them.

If it was a text by Rishis then it would be in Sanskrit as was the Books of knowledge. So Guru Sahib would have translated these for the common man to understand,as with most of the Dasam Granth (Chaubees Avtar, Cahndi Charitar) and this would have been the first time that the lower varnas would have access to them.

Why not just add to the already existing thread on "Prem Sumarg" on this forum?

I agree.It doesn't have to be given the status of Gurbani for it to be read by and used as knowledge by the Sikh. Guru Arjan Sahib didn't include Bhai Gurdas' Vaaran in Guru Granth Sahib, but that doesn't mean that we cannot read, respect, understand and follow them.

You have presented textual proof. A text with it written in.  It doesn't mean it will be true/proof, as its claims still have to be verified.

Charitarpakhiyan means shades or types of characters. Only those morons call it "wiles of women" in order to further their agenda.
It is like Aesops fables but with a more intense message. It talks about good and bad characters/characteristics of people. It is not aimed at degrading women (as that liar Asatkirin has claimed ) just as Aesops fables aren't saying that all  "Hares" in this world are not good for nothing, show-offy, arrogant things (which I can see in Sikh-khoj bless him).
It was their characteristics that Aesop told in order to educate humans. Gurbani also uses animal characteristics to educate humans.
Now why should/could Guru Ji write about this? If any of you had heard the story about Kalyig when he took his roop and confronted Guru Nanak, he was holding his tongue in one hand and his penis in the other. Kalyug was demonstrating to Guru Ji that in this era these two senses would be so strong that humans would not be able to confront or control them. To me CharitarPakhyan is just an extension of the spiritual (miri)teaching in Gurbani, in a more social, political (piri)form. It talks about the weaknesses of men and women, and the bravery and astuteness of both genders as well.
Then there is the sakhi of Bhagat Faird, who was confronted by the prostitute in his village about whether his beard was better than the dog's tail. Bhagat Ji only answered her on his death-bed and and her questioning why the delay in answering, Bhagat Ji replied that "this mann is so fickle, who knows whether it could have resisted". If you have heard the sakhi you will know what I'm taalking about.
My Vidya Guru also told me about this type of stuff and about how the rarest of men are able to control themselves in these situations.

Charitarpakhiyan means shades or types of characters. Only those morons call it "wiles of women" in order to further their agenda.
It is like Aesops fables but with a more intense message. It talks about good and bad characters/characteristics of people. It is not aimed at degrading women (as that liar Asatkirin has claimed ) just as Aesops fables aren't saying that all  "Hares" in this world are not good for nothing, show-offy, arrogant things (which I can see in Sikh-khoj bless him).
It was their characteristics that Aesop told in order to educate humans. Gurbani also uses animal characteristics to educate humans.
Now why should/could Guru Ji write about this? If any of you had heard the story about Kalyig when he took his roop and confronted Guru Nanak, he was holding his tongue in one hand and his penis in the other. Kalyug was demonstrating to Guru Ji that in this era these two senses would be so strong that humans would not be able to confront or control them. To me CharitarPakhyan is just an extension of the spiritual (miri)teaching in Gurbani, in a more social, political (piri)form. It talks about the weaknesses of men and women, and the bravery and astuteness of both genders as well.
Then there is the sakhi of Bhagat Faird, who was confronted by the prostitute in his village about whether his beard was better than the dog's tail. Bhagat Ji only answered her on his death-bed and and her questioning why the delay in answering, Bhagat Ji replied that "this mann is so fickle, who knows whether it could have resisted". If you have heard the sakhi you will know what I'm taalking about.
My Vidya Guru also told me about this type of stuff and about how the rarest of men are able to control themselves in these situations.

thats not really answering the point though is it. which scenario gives us more of a chance? 5 lions votes vs 6 sheep votes?

Charitarpakhiyan means shades or types of characters. Only those morons call it "wiles of women" in order to further their agenda.
It is like Aesops fables but with a more intense message. It talks about good and bad characters/characteristics of people. It is not aimed at degrading women (as that liar Asatkirin has claimed ) just as Aesops fables aren't saying that all  "Hares" in this world are not good for nothing, show-offy, arrogant things (which I can see in Sikh-khoj bless him).
It was their characteristics that Aesop told in order to educate humans. Gurbani also uses animal characteristics to educate humans.
Now why should/could Guru Ji write about this? If any of you had heard the story about Kalyig when he took his roop and confronted Guru Nanak, he was holding his tongue in one hand and his penis in the other. Kalyug was demonstrating to Guru Ji that in this era these two senses would be so strong that humans would not be able to confront or control them. To me CharitarPakhyan is just an extension of the spiritual (miri)teaching in Gurbani, in a more social, political (piri)form. It talks about the weaknesses of men and women, and the bravery and astuteness of both genders as well.
Then there is the sakhi of Bhagat Faird, who was confronted by the prostitute in his village about whether his beard was better than the dog's tail. Bhagat Ji only answered her on his death-bed and and her questioning why the delay in answering, Bhagat Ji replied that "this mann is so fickle, who knows whether it could have resisted". If you have heard the sakhi you will know what I'm taalking about.
My Vidya Guru also told me about this type of stuff and about how the rarest of men are able to control themselves in these situations.

The reason why there is so much misinformation is that people like Satkiran and mrsingh keep only bringing up the woman stuff up. Then everybody has the thinking that it's only about women etc.
 
Another reason there is a lot of misinformation is that our kathakars are not studied in these type of Banis. In puratan sampradas these type of Banis are studied for years but those days are gone. Now any joe can become a kathakar after studying for a few years.