drawrof

I just created the SIKHI federation...it wants exactly the same thing, we only do paats for 101 pounds

well bala is considered to be a conspiracy by the mina's that the handaleyay supposedly created, so there is alot of stuff that has been interpolated. I don't think that bhai mardana can be considered a falsification, bala can. based on what was said about mian mir above, that can be as well...Was there a persian ceremony done when darbar sahib was actually created? if so, what was it called? The fact that it is called a darbar, and alot of the other terminology doesn't discount a persian influence but it doesn't mean that it makes everything persian either. Economics has alot to do with the 'royal' influences. People emulate those in power because what they institute is usually a set precedent.

well bala is considered to be a conspiracy by the mina's that the handaleyay supposedly created, so there is alot of stuff that has been interpolated. I don't think that bhai mardana can be considered a falsification, bala can. based on what was said about mian mir above, that can be as well...Was there a persian ceremony done when darbar sahib was actually created? if so, what was it called? The fact that it is called a darbar, and alot of the other terminology doesn't discount a persian influence but it doesn't mean that it makes everything persian either. Economics has alot to do with the 'royal' influences. People emulate those in power because what they institute is usually a set precedent.

I know, I know!!! www.ashokaarts.com (sorry, I was just trying to sound like I knew something)

Tribalism or not, it is annoying!

I think a more comprehensive understanding of the dal panth would be required to make any statements. I think the discussions are correct and fine in their own right, and I agree the degeneration is a byproduct of weak leadership, change of social structure, a negative feedback from the community at large...Samurai's were known to pillage...something khalsa generally didn't do...keep up the constructive conversation

actually kharag singh, it is "khao-PEO, aish karro, mitro-oa, dil par kissay da dukhayo na" I think due reverence should be given to Kang ji!

Guys, I was joking and chatanga is just explaining how wine is used as a metaphor for corruption. Nothing of what he has said has promoted the usage of alcohol so lets not put words in his mouth!! I see his point, and I would have read it that way..if alcohol were used to clean a wound, it would not be seen as a nasha...it would be seen as a cleanser. That isn't the point though, alcohol in itself isn't bad, but man's addiction is...similar to how it has been deciphered above

I think it is blasphemous that you guys all subscribe to 'khao peeo aish karo mitro, dil par kissay da dukhayo na'

I just wanted to be cool. this was my last chance...I'll stick to watching 'countdown', thanks shaheediyan

I forgot to mention, alcohol is used for merriment, a tonic, and is applicable to wounds...

Sod you all, Wher do I sign up to become SP?

Chatanga, I agree with you here. Ask N3O, he would know, he's a takshali

I actually know what some of these terms mean now. I still have to get my head around it all before I decide where I stand, but interesting stuff, nonetheless

Guys, on another note. I do suggest people read some of the books the Javanmard has mentioned. I am only saying that because certain concepts of the constructs/approaches to god are laid out and it is really an excercise in itself. I am not saying.."I see the light, hallelujah", but I am saying...buy the books, read them...and if nothing else, you can argue point for point.

Keep these posts going, Javanmard is giving his points and is giving perspective. It isn't dialogue because he is getting words put in his mouth, but at the same time, I request javanmard to address every question. There is no need for slander as it doesn't take away or add to any argument. Lets keep this topic up

I would like to also Add, if one's theological/theosophical stance is one that states that everything comes back to them.....then other saints will not be seen as a threat, but rather just an affirmation of that faiths overall superiority....something to consider

I thought brahma was rajo gun, and shiva tamo gun??

Yes tSingh, do you still need the 11th verse?

without historical contexts its hard, I find to actually understand gurbani. This is my take on it. I say this because a person then applies gurbani to a paradigm that suit them in life which in turn becomes more a justification of the program running in their own mind as opposed to a sincere quest for truth...some people have the right program in their mind but the output just isn't the same

WOW! great nimrata Javanmard veerji!

Yes Neojit singh, That is a picture of swami anantand ji. I prefer his dreadlocks, but that is because I am a gangster...'scene'!

The answer to your question is simply no. I haven't listened to it myself. With all the katha on the internet these days it gets overwhelming and even the basic of sites and pracharaks gets overlooked. My source was the tika written by gyani kartar singh's shagirds. I am repeating the first thing that came to mind when the question was asked. As per the taksal, I gave what my opinion is right at the beginning. Thanks for the right direction. I will listen to the katha at some point.

Interestingly Kam, it wasn't Sant Gurbachan Singh ji, but rather the writers for Sant Kartar Singh ji who appended the information. This info is courtesty of Baba Jagjit Singh Harkowal wallay. The Kirpal singh or sevapanthi lineage I believe goes back to the point the sevapanthi's learned from nirmallay. I don't believe in the dam dami taksal as being anything divinely appropriated by guru sahib, but rather a 'college' that took prominence in the last 50 years. The historian, Dr. Tirlochan Singh, mentions that he spoke and did bachan bilaas with Inder Singh, the brother of sant sundar singh ji bhindrawalay, and he had said that his brother never referred to himself as being part of the dam dami taksal. Please read "the sword and the turban". Also, there is huge speculation about the origins of the damdama sahib. The one at sabo ki talwandi was a manji before it was made into the 5th takhat, prior to that....the damdama sahib that was mentioned was at anandpur sahib....stuff to ponder

With Regards to Maharaja Ranjit Singh not being able to recite mool manter: one source of history says that He ran into Bhai dukh bhanjan ji on his way to seeing Baba Sahib Singh Bedi Una Sahib wallay and He was asked "do you know japji sahib?"..the answer was no. "Do you know mulmantar?" the answer was no. Then Maharaja Ranjit Singh asked if he could be taught moolmantar and he'd learn the rest later. In essence, bhai dukh bhanjan (like most saints of that time) didn't want to have much to do with maharaja ranjit singh. As per the gold on Darbar Sahib, Javanmard, do you know why it was put on? I am not a personal fan of the sponsor a brick at darbar sahib myself, regardless of whether it is written in gurmukhi, shahmukhi, or english. These phenomena are quite new. As per community and culture, nearly every community in the world is running with the global market right now. Sure you have elite, sophisticated people everywhere, but they are not in the majority and generally...nor is the culture they subscribe to. Money is the benchmark, multinationals are the vazeers, and we are all slaves to it...regardless of what we'd like to think or believe.