Lucky

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Air is the least dense and the easiest out of the 5 to initially master and then separate from. "master" is probably a slightly incorrect term, but it's more of being fully immersed in it, learn it, move with it, become it.. and then let go. We have a choice to listen to our involuntary breathing 24/7 if we try. Better still, if we can get accustomed to the technique of saas saas doing "wahe"-"guru" or "har"-"har" with every inhalation and exhalation, then we can be doing 24/7 simran. Most meditation paths and schools guide you towards entering the Samadhi void by connecting all awareness into breath, and then disconnecting in an instant. Disconnect in an instant, so that your awareness isn't able to latch to any other element, but jumps straight into Sunn Samadhi. It's a case of directing all divided attention and awareness from the other elements into One single element, and when it is all contained in the one and there is ...complete control over it, ..you just "let go". ...and then bam! in an instant, you will be in sunn void. In sunn, there is no 5 elements, therefore no maya, No maya means no trai(3) gunnas, and so you are in the 4th, chautha padh.

The 5 tats thought was actually inspired by our very own Bhagat ji. He mentioned something along the lines of our complete existence being in continuous motion and changing moment to moment. This got me thinking and soon enough the whole 5 tats and maya began to make more sense! It made me realise that being truly "selfless" is extremely difficult and being mukht, is to be free from all associations of 5 elements.

5 Elements, Realization and being Selfless. Below is some explaining and understanding about what realization actually means and why the concern with 5 elements. Important to understand what 5 elements represent and what is not made from these 5 tat. I've not used any other references except for Gurbani quotes, so all errors are mine and I stand corrected. Everything made of the 5 tat is in constant change, moment to moment, in a continual flux of motion. This is what contributes to kaal and time. This is also what our mind perceives as the 'Reality'. The surroundings and the 5 tat maya,that existence is enveloped in, is perceived as the “Reality” Q: But if the 5 tat maya is the reality, then what is realization? A: Funny, because "realization" is actually realizing, that the reality perceived by our mind is Not the reality, and Not the truth. Realization = Realizing that reality, as we know it, is NOT actually real -Why? Because the Truth is aad jugaad,hai bhi, hosi,,,,, He always was, always is and will always remain "as is" Truth does not change. He is not in constant variation or shift. He stays as he always was and always will be Kabir ji says.. ਨਾ ਓਹੁ ਬਢੈ ਨ ਘਟਤਾ ਜਾਇ ॥ Nā oh badẖai na gẖatṯā jā▫e. God does not increase or decrease. ਅਕੁਲ ਨਿਰੰਜਨ ਏਕੈ ਭਾਇ ॥੩॥ Akul niranjan ekai bẖā▫e. ||3|| He is unknowable and immaculate; He does not change. ||3|| Q:Why does the MInd perceive the reality as the changing maya that is made of 5 tat? A:Because the Mind itself is made of 5 tat (non-spiritualists won't get what man tu jyot saroop hai really means) Gurbani confirms what I'm saying- ਇਹੁ ਮਨੁ ਪੰਚ ਤਤੁ ਤੇ ਜਨਮਾ ॥ Ih man pancẖ ṯaṯ ṯe janmā. This mind is born of the five elements. The unchanging "truth" our almighty lord Waheguru, is NOT made of 5 elements. Gurbani also tells us- ਰੂਪੁ ਨ ਰੇਖ ਨ ਪੰਚ ਤਤ ਠਾਕੁਰ ਅਬਿਨਾਸ ॥੨॥ Rūp na rekẖ na pancẖ ṯaṯ ṯẖākur abinās. ||2|| He has no form or outline, and He is not made of the five elements; our Lord and Master is imperishable. ||2|| Beloved Kabirji confirms. The mind is in constant change and living off the 5 elements in maya- ਇਹੁ ਮਨੁ ਪੰਚ ਤਤ ਕੋ ਜੀਉ ॥ Ih man pancẖ ṯaṯ ko jī▫o. This mind is the life of the five elements We are changing and everything in the universe, under the influence of 5 tats, is also changing. But behind all of this somewhere is the unchanging "ultimate reality".... the True one, the all knower and the doer. Q; How do we find this True one that knows all? By lifting this veil of 5 tats that makes the mind and everything that it perceives. This is where we have to try and "stop" or "still" the changing mind. To still is to move to this nothingness where there is no "I" (remember the "I'' is always changing) ...the "I" is the ego. To become SELFLESS through realizing the absence of real ego, is the practice of all paths. Find the UNCHANGING reality, the True Reality, the True Jyot. Here there is no "I" that exists, there is no ego....this is what is called being selfless. Kabir ji says- ਜਹ ਕਛੁ ਅਹਾ ਤਹਾ ਕਿਛੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਪੰਚ ਤਤੁ ਤਹ ਨਾਹੀ ॥ Jah kacẖẖ ahā ṯahā kicẖẖ nāhī pancẖ ṯaṯ ṯah nāhī. Where something existed, now there is nothing. The five elements are no longer there. Every path or faith tells us to forget about Ego in order to "become more spiritual" or more 'Sikh" However, ordinary followers ignore this injunction because the task seems way too difficult. As a result, these followers identify with their physical bodies or with their thoughts or experiences and mistakenly take this "other" as their true self. The 2nd reason that followers can't become selfless is because they do not know how to detach from the seductive pull of 5 tat maya. Gurbani tells us to detach and disassociate from maya, which actually stems from detaching away from the 5 tats that are not only in what we perceive around us, but also in what makes up our "running in 10 directions" mind. They don't understand the process of purifying, the japna to get away from the "forever changing" 5 tat maya àto the non-changing stillness and truth. They become at loss when it comes to the task of spiritual cultivation. I say "cultivation" because Gurbani pangtees about sowing and reaping seeds, are not all about karams, (wont cross-reference here now to go off current discussion.) they are also about the spiritual practice efforts you make and the gurprasad grace that will follow. Gurprasad and grace doesn't come from 'above to à down' if you've no efforts of going from 'down to àabove' Don’t fool yourself thinking that gurprasad grace can just come down from above if you sit cross-legged and hath-johr(hands folded), without making an ounce of effort to raise your awareness and consciousness! This brings me to another area of different discussion that also stems from the same 5 tat-changing-selves,...and that is "mukhti" or liberation. Real Mukhti is to be FREE from the 5 tat existence of change. Free from the changing and repeating cycles of birth and death. Liberated from the changing 5 element maya. The 5 elements have to be mastered before you can be free of them. You can do them in any order but out of Air, Water, Wind, Earth and Ether(space/akash), .Earth is the most difficult because our hair, fingernails, bones and earth kapra of physical body is the most dense. The least dense and the most flexible is the Air. The air corresponds to the prana in terms of it’s movement and Gurmat advises that we start here. Japo Saas saas simro gobind, saas saas to master that first element/tat of Air because it is the least dense and easiest one to master and separate from. Air is also what came first before material creation from Primal void of Sunn, Gurbani says… ਪਉਣੁ ਪਾਣੀ ਸੁੰਨੈ ਤੇ ਸਾਜੇ ॥ Pa▫uṇ pāṇī sunnai ṯe sāje. From this Primal Void, He fashioned air and water. Thus, it is very possible to do the reversible and enter Sunn Samadhi by mastering and separating from the Air. This is a key approach we use in simran to go into sunn from that cross-legged, hath-johr position. Air is the Guru of maya, since "pavan guru, pane pitaa, mata dharth.mahaat” and Air

THIS IS IT......EXCELLENT!!! It is smack-on, every single word. Where was this written originally?...I know it's a translation from Isher Singh Rara sahib

It's been explained before on this thread and others. For example....

These are all "pavan" sounds that you will hear as part of the prep. Some are heard longer than others depending on which of your nadis and chakras are more blocked. What you need to do is just acknowledge and move on. Don't get fooled into thinking they are anhad, but it's a consolation that you are heading the correct way. You may well have heard some kirtan in the distance as well, but that again, is not the one that you will hear when you get closer. Again, don't try and focus into it because it is another clever distraction. I can tell you what the signs and confirmations are for the real kirtan coming from sacha mahal and what you may probably hear prior to that, but I'm not going to say on open forum because of previous plagiarizing incidents. You can pm me when something else is experienced and I will do my best to compare with what I've encountered and accomplished. I have no objections telling you or others that are making genuine efforts and putting in real simran time, but other curious enquirers, that are too ignorant to try have been told in pms to go and work at it first These are all little barriers that you have to overcome as more prana starts moving and channels start opening up, different experiences will be encountered.

No comment :).........sometimes you can tell who has naam and who doesn't.

@jaikaara Good advice. I know a few people who have done that. I also learned from one that we shouldn't drink cold water! it should always be at about our own body temps(37.5C) or higher. I just can't get used to it as I have a naughty habit of throwing ice in all my drinks.

If they were "sukheyoh", then YES, that becomes a karmic weight if you don't finish them. I think you understand that by "sukheyoh",.. I mean the scenario where one has a need of some sort and they promise to do some 'ponnh daanh' or jaap to Praise waheguru in the joy of the need being fulfilled. The "intention" is very important in these matters and it shouldn't be about ego but about praising Waheguru and showing more love to waheguru because "he" is the doer. You shouldn't really "sukhh" unless you are sure you can do it and do it very soon.. Seriously,..... you don't want to die with some unresolved sukhh in your life because it will affect your karmic path in the after life. Therefore, I do strongly suggest that you complete them if they were "sukheyoh"... because I do know some people/families that have had relatives pass away that had uncompleted "sukhannh" and they later came to light in one way or the other. Anyway, I've done the 10,000 mool mantar japs in 10 days on quite a few occasions. I always did them with strict discipline and 1000plus malas in one sitting per day. In those days, I was also naïve and probably didn't give full dhyian.and focused on numbers,.... but I passed all the exams every time and it definitely helped increase my faith.

Oh, I see. What I referred to above is very complex and it can't be done until you have risen above hirda and throat. It is advised to not even attempt until one has become adept in saas graas, saas saas and rom rom simran. It is not a jugtee that is done with voluntary jap.... but it is very steady,sehaj.... internal-antarghat... I've been doing it for over a year and it is difficult to understand unless you've practiced going very internal. You need to just focus on DHUN and listen to your own jap before any advanced steps. By listening to dhun, you will eventually begin to hear a series of sounds and then anhad. Once anhad comes, then you will be guided towards the source of the true sounds. In the techniques that some of us have done on here, we start with jap at breath. This involves naval, stomach/diaphragm breath control... and listening to your own jap. "Listening" is the key....and no ascension will occur unless "dhun mein dhyan, dhyian meh jania" It is only radhasoamis that tell you to start jap at agya chakkar , but they also tell you to focus dhyian on their master. Whether this works or not, is none of my business,......I stick with what I understand from the house of Guru Nanak ji. and these techniques along with experiences and progress are explained in the meditation thread

Which jugti are you referring to?

That's very correct. It's the journey of prayag or trikuti, and is about going from the front above eyes and In a 'straight' path to the dasam via the sehaj guffa(brahmans cave). On this path is the serious bathing in the internal Amritsar. It's a long journey and using 'rom rom' is very helpful. I also note that this is analogous to the physical structure of Darbar sahib and walking across the straight path on the sarovar towards the darbar.

@CuriousSeeker@HisServant you can try any kind of yoga that is more accessible for you. Most of the core components are the same except for the active fitness yoga workouts which are physically demanding. There is no measurement of benefits in terms of time. It all depends on dedication and kirpa. Spiritual efforts and results NEVER depend on quantity. However, physical results do and when your physical thann starts align then the sukham sareer will find it easier to follow Going online to do yoga is never the same. I only noticed the physical significance of sangat energy in yoga class environments. Everyone directs their inner energies towards the same goals and you begin to realise that you can reach heights and levels that you thought you never would!! If you try the same thing at home in front of a screen, then it just won't happen I'm afraid. Bhagat Kabir ji says- ਮਨ ਹੀ ਮਨ ਸਿਉ ਕਹੈ ਕਬੀਰਾ ਮਨ ਸਾ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥੩੨॥ Man hī man si▫o kahai kabīrā man sā mili▫ā na ko▫e. ||32|| Only the mind can deal with the mind; says Kabeer, I have not met anything like the mind. ||32|| The MIND is the ONLY part of ourselves that can cure and fix itself. All you have to do is hold it still. Practice holding it still. Great heights are only reached when we hold that stillness that is instigated by a hold of breath. Just think that in every sport or event where a player takes the vital shot for a goal, he holds his breath momentarily for that instant. When a basketball player leaps to dunk,... soccer player swings his leg..., snooker player takes a strike....etc.. They all hold the breath for that instant moment. This involuntary and subconscious action is us trying to 'hold' the mind. Somehow, the auto-response knows that mind will be steady and fully focused when held and holding the breath will help. Heights are only achieved when you 'hold'. The darshan of waheguru only happens when you can 'hold' and exit thru the dasam. Therefore, I can say that taking part in activity that involves you holding breath-mind to achieve full focus for a goal, is also going to be helping stabilize your mind. In this regard, You realise the meditative component in sports and especially in skills like sniper target shooting where they have to be so steady prior to holding their breath at the moment of the vital shot.

Good topic man. I can't stress enough about the importance of proper posture and the "no no no" about anterior pelvic tilt. You've got to understand your body and learn to listen to it. ......Bad posture and misaligned balance will ALWAYS lead to other physical problems. Most simple knee problems are due to knock-on effects from mistreating your own back...---> leads to unbalanced contractions in lower torso and legs --->leads to pull or push on knee ligaments --->PAIN!!! ...For eg, classic pain on the outer medial knee is most commonly due to a tight IT-band.... A few weeks ago a bajurg was in the gym and was mentioning the pain on his outer knee. After monitoring a few of his few movements and posture, my trainer was pretty sure that his IT band was tight. He demonstrated few stretches for the old baba to try .......and a week later ...Volia! .....he was cured. He couldn't believe it as he had suffered months and months with stomach problems from anti-inflammatories that his doctor was prescribing..... I think that if we do anything that can in some way hinder our spiritual progress, then our body will try telling us with warning signs, one way or the other. The body knows that our purpose in life is to find our own jyot....and if you start misaligning your back and making spiritual blockages, then you will suffer body symptoms due to the physical blockages caused in return. Off the top of my head, I know that core exercises like the planks, lunges.squats whilst keeping back straight by looking straight ahead in mirror...etc.. will help with pelvic tilt. Also many stretches like downward dog, cat stretches, and even quad stretches. It is important to push and strengthen your legs because that is the direction negative energies from your bad posture will go. I used to do a lot of cycling and I would recommend this or if you wanna do it in gym then use a spin-bike rather than the other sort. My personal all time tip is to keep that naval slightly tense and pulled in at all times and chest out like a big palwaaan!!! Yeh, the macho look of chest out and holding your belly flab in,.. is very very healthy and a very good protectant for your back. Did you know that you won't injure your back muscles by lifting something awkward from floor, if your navel is pulled inwards and slightly taught? Even when sitting down to do simran, ..naval in,,chest out, a few deep slow breaths..and go! You wanna be able to feel all your energy travelling up and down from muldhara up to your head and back down with every breath. There are loads more tips and ways to avoid these postural problems and I tend to just use my initiative as I go along. I recommend you don't sit too much on comfy couches and sofas where your back is not straight. A yoga ball is excellent to sit on and there are numerous exercises that you can use it for. As for Yoga, I can only talk about the kundalini yoga that I have been doing for a few years. ... Yes, It does definitely help, ..and if done properly, it will help clear the mind, heighten your inner and outer awareness, strengthen and help elongate your spine, strengthen your body,teach stamina and endurance......and best of all... it can help achieve unforgettable moments of transcendent joy and spiritual ecstasy! :) . There is nothing better for me than to have Yoga as an art of extending my spiritual prayer and devotion into physical discipline.

lol...........that book is written by someone who is a member of this forum!

You ever experienced any astral travel?

Conceptualize everything in terms of "energy". Even mental energy that you use for thoughts. If you are using too much thought energy towards lust, then you need to started redirecting that same energy towards other better thoughts. BTW, it is not really correct to assume that only "high avastha person has conquered lust",,, because out ofall the 5 dhuts. Lust is the one that takes so many hidden form in your own energies. This 'lower down energy'(below navel) is the ONLY one that can be transformed into a substantial amount of divine energy,...this is what shall help to go towards Higher avastha. Higher avastha doesn't come first and then kaam vanishes, kaam has to be stamped on in order to get to higher avastha. It's important to understand this, especially about conserving this energy. Kaam is a huge hindrance for any spiritual progress. I disagree that you should distract yourself or avoid situations such as avoiding places where opposite sex may be or using cop-out excuses to avoid temptation. Because you are just SUPPRESSING the same energy, which usually ends up manifesting into frustration, anxiety, anger, disease or any other negative trait. Instead, when it occurs, like say a physical arising or itch down below, then you should DIVERT your THOUGHTS towards Akaal. You should try and pump navel, do saas saas and make/feel the energy rise upwards towards your hirda. You should embrace this human instinct/behavior by NOT letting maya control your thoughts, but taking charge yourself and directing them towards physical. it's as if the universe just lumps a ton of energy on you with you making any effort. Pick up and use this load of energy wisely.

I'm surprised he hasn't been shot.

Seeing this kind of stuff is not good and means the person is not meditating towards the truth of har har naam dhrir. If you see this stuff, then you have to start looking at yourself to find your own faults. I actually believe that this happens to people who don't ever acknowledge or realise their own faults. My understanding is a little different to Gyani's. .......Going by what Gurbani says, ... the 5 dhuts are "seen", but they are seen running away from you when you have conquered their influences. This happens at advanced stages after one has bathed at the internal "Amritsar" outside of Hari-mandar. (journey from agya forehead to dasam duar). A number of pangtees point this way like the one below.... ਭਾਗਿ ਗਏ ਪੰਚ ਦੂਤ ਲਾਵੇ ॥੨॥ Bẖāg ga▫e pancẖ ḏūṯ lāve. ||2|| The five demons who tortured me have run away. ||2|| However, prior to this, ,..at a stage where naam is fully pargat with naam amrit and one's full dhyian is in Guru's charan.., One can see the jamdoots, but these messengers of death won't show their faces to gurmukh... ..Gurmukh will see them running...infact, running away!..... For the unlucky ones, the jams CAN reveal themselves with monstrous features like multiple heads, limbs, and one eye for example... Again, there are a number of pangtees telling us about the jams running away.. ਨਾਮੁ ਸੁਣਤ ਜਮੁ ਦੂਰਹੁ ਭਾਗੈ ॥ Nām suṇaṯ jam ḏẖūrahu bẖāgai. Listening to the Naam, the Messenger of Death runs far away Some of the above, I have witnessed myself but won't go in too much detail on open forum.

Good stuff Sat. I think that this guy came here some time last year and I recall my Kundalini instructor mentioning a few things. These guys have a lot more spiritual information than fellow Sikhs imagine. I have learned some incredible wisdom and encouraging knowledge from Yoga teachers. Sometimes just a few simple explanations and reasons seem to fit so well with what Gurbani says. It often results with understanding and seeing gurbani at more deeper and informative levels when experience and practice can be applied directly. Glad you got some doubts cleared up Sat, because doubts are a huge hindrance on the spiritual path.

I'm not sure which file you are referring to?

That's good stuff HisServant. I think you are very ready for further development. I recommend that you spend more time doing silent and real antarghat jap. You should either be very close or are probably already hearing some anhad. The hardest part now is to just stay in "sehaj". You don't want to think too much about advancing either because the mind will try and convince you. Sit calmly, be steady and have the attitude of enjoying going deeper and deeper inside yourself. Just to add, - staying in sehaj is done by keeping full dhyian on Dhun(Dhun meh dhyian, dhian mai janiya.....). listening to the sound of jap. ...........Just at the beginning when you are trying to settle down, attention is put on your physical - in terms of breath, posture, balance/settling....then afterwards, take attention off these physical aspects and keep dhyian on listening to dhun and nothing physical in body. . You have to just let it all happen without looking out for it.

Guest Bablu, you seem quite educated about "hate" that I seriously recommend you post on here as a member. Then we can have some sensible discussions and help educate each other in this bhavsagar we are in. BTW. Your post reminded me of the movie "The Hateful Eight" which is now my favourite Quentin Tarantino movie of all time!!!... I recommend it to you! and just to end, I will say "Well, Good for you, Sister"

Fungal infections, as you may know occur in "warm" and "moist" environments. They are associated with "heat". In terms of spiritual sun and moon energies, these refer to heating and cooling as well. My guess is that it kind of makes sense if we associate fungal infections with internal "garami" . So in terms of inner cleansing, I would imagine that yes, these excessive internal garam toxins are breaking out. This heat association is also related with internal tapas, tamogun maya...tamogesic foods.... I don't know too much about this area of study, but with regards to spiritual body mapping; the stomach area(or below diaphragm) is analogous to furnace and tapas because this is where food is burned, metabolised and is the place from where the energy stems from. It's also associated with Sun energy, whereas the cooler moon energy is higher up towards the crown and bindu chakra.. Half-crescent moon in Shiv-Shakti symbols is also associated with same cooler bindu energy................The idea is to have the right balance between sun-moon, Shiv-Shakti, left-right, ida-pingala....etc.. because only when BOTH physical and sukham sareer are in balance - can the central sukhmana channel open up for kundalini(central & non-dual) energy, to rise up and open main gateway.. Only then can we actually see our own MIND in it's Jot saroop.(This is the purpose of human birth out of the lakh chaurasi) With reference to the technique of japna that has been described on the other thread of "wahe" whilst breathing in and "Guru" when breathing out, The energy is meant to rise upwards on "wahe". [NOTE- that this is just one technique out of hundreds, no technique holds more Truth than the next one] I've always stuck with the technique of pulling navel slightly inwards with "wahe" as well. This helps in the sense that the inward pull is also in line with your lower mooldhara(sexual) energies rising upwards....-same path as kundalini.. We all have too much energy lower down which is why "kaam" energy is abundant without effort but the "Transformation" in sikhi is about transforming these kaam and lower, darker energies into the divine energy. -You may remember in physics that the law of conservation is "energy cannot be created or destroyed, but is simply transferred from one form to another" ............In line with this, it always makes me snigger when someone claims to have got rid of all their kaam because our weakness is kaam-energy. ...and energy can not be got rid of or destroyed. Transformed/transferred,-Yes! It sounds like your dad's rise of energy upwards, is in line with the idea behind the technique described,... and this sounds good!