savinderpalsingh

What crap are your spewing??? Here is an article that refutes your crap.

Takht chief frowns on sewa by women
Varinder Walia
Tribune News Service

Amritsar, October 11
The demand to allow baptised Sikh women to perform kirtan and seva inside the sanctum sanctorum of the Golden Temple raised a controversy again at a seminar organised by the Global United Sikh Women Organisation here today.

When Dr Mohinder Kaur Gill, a Sikh scholar, wanted the inclusion of baptised women among Panj Piyare ( Five Beloved Ones), Jathedar, Akal Takht, Giani Gurbachan Singh chided her for raising such sensitive issues publicly. He, however, said such matters should have been taken up by the sub-committee of SGPC representatives, Akal Takht, Sikh intellectuals and baptised women.

Rajinder Singh Mehta, member, executive committee, SGPC, at the function said women could not be allowed to participate in Panj Piyare or perform kirtan/seva due to a variety of reasons. He said the Almighty had differentiated man from woman at the time of birth, hence nobody should raise such a demand.

Dr Mohinder Kaur, contradicting her own point, said the SGPC had given certain administrative reasons for disallowing women to clean the sanctum sanctorum or carry Guru Granth Sahib in a palanquin, but there was no valid reason to deny them a chance to perform kirtan.

Bibi Jagir Kaur, after taking over as SGPC chief in 1999, had announced to treat baptised women on a par with men for discharging religious duties in the Golden Temple. Earlier, then acting Jathedar, Akal Takht, Prof Manjit Singh had taken a jatha of baptised women to perform seva in the sanctum sanctorum, along with wife of Harbhajan Singh Yogi. Later, notwithstanding her announcement on February 3, 2003, Bibi Kiranjot Kaur, a former general secretary, SGPC, could not arrange kirtan in the sanctum sanctorum.

Gender discrimination in the Golden Temple was highlighted at the international level on February 15, 2003, when two England-based Sikh women were allegedly assaulted by SGPC sevadars during sukhasan (carrying Guru Granth Sahib in palanquin) in the Golden Temple .

Earlier, at the seminar Dr Upinderjit Kaur, education minister, said to preserve moral and ethical values in society, women should have to do introspection to awaken society ethically, morally and artistically by eradicating social evils.

Women and organisations, including GND University, Punjabi University, SGPC, Kendri Sri Guru Singh Sabha, Chandigarh, and Naad Pargaas Sri Amritsar participated in the seminar. The minister congratulated Dr Jasbir Kaur, president, and said such seminars would help form an ideal society.

Okay, I’ve decided to get this stuff down for anyone seriously interested in learning Panjabi - for once and for all.

That way, those people who periodically pop up on forums with questions regarding those first, tentative but monumentally important steps they should take in order to develop their Panjabi reading/writing language skills, will have something to follow. Plus, it’ll mean I wont have to retype this stuff out again and again in future.

First thing: Before anyone undertakes to learn anything that requires patience and persistence, they must first come to a place where the desire, the pure ‘want’ to learn is deep within them. Fall in love with the idea of yourself knowing Panjabi. Let this sustain you throughout your learning.

I, personally, am a BIG advocate of modern teaching approaches which utilise a person’s existing English skills to help them master Panjabi. I used such an approach to teach a nonPanjabi speaker for about 5 weeks over a summer holiday once, and was astounded at the fast progress. I myself was introduced to the basics of reading the language in the more traditional, ‘rote’ manner, where one first learns the alphabet (through ‘parroting’) and then moves on to increasingly complex words (and sentences) from there. Having been exposed to both modern and traditional approaches, I feel the more modern method allows learners to make faster progress – and is more fun!

The strategy the primer below adopts is to get a learner to understand the sounds associated with the various symbols of the Gurmukhi script (commonly used to write Panjabi) using English words. If this sounds confusing to you, don’t worry, it’ll all become obvious once you start the exercises. English readers should note that unlike the English language, in Panjabi the letters or symbols of the Gurmukhi alphabet only ever correspond to one particular sound. In time you will see the advantages of this over English.
Using the following approach, you will be reading and writing words (even possibly basic sentences) – before you have mastered the complete Gurmukhi alphabet. When you do eventually get to memorising the Gurmukhi alphabet by rote, this method makes that task infinitely easier as you will have already become familiar with some of the letters/symbols of alphabet beforehand.
Okay – are you ready!

Step 1: Download this Panjabi Primer. I swear by it.

Work your way through the first lesson. It’s easy. Give yourself a few hours somewhere quiet to do this. If you need to, briefly have a Panjabi reader read a few words with you to help you get started.

What you will cover REALLY helps to gain an understanding of the relationship between the symbols of the Gurmukhi alphabet and the sound they correspond to. By a few hours you will be able to write some basic English words in the Gurmukhi script. Minimal guidance from someone who knows how to read Gurmukhi can help, but isn’t absolutely necessary for lesson 1. Once you’ve done it and feel comfortable with the symbols and sounds that have been covered, try thinking of other English words you can write with the letters/symbols you’ve learned so far.

Work through the Primer steadily. Every time you start a new lesson, briefly go over what was covered in the last one before hand. Your knowledge will develop incrementally this way.

It might help to use a Panjabi knower to clarify the sounds of the symbols used in lesson 2, when you do start it


Remembering what you’ve learned.



Revisit what you have learned regularly, so that it gets reinforced in your memory. This doesn’t mean spending hours repeating material you’ve already covered. But go back to it, so that you retain your learning. REMEMBER, IT IS ONE THING TO LEARN SOMETHING – AND ANOTHER TO RETAIN THAT LEARNING – so practice frequently (in short bursts) because failing to go over what you have learned with some regularity causes it to diminish from your memory. That’s what we want to avoid, that gradual fading.

A good tip is to have a vocabulary list handy in a small note book, or as an image or file on your mobile phone/laptop. When you have five or ten spare minutes in a day – go over them. Do this on the train to work for example. Or use your ipod/mobile and headphones to play some of videos that are linked to below. This helps firmly establish the material in your mind in a way that doesn’t require too much effort. If you leave revisiting what you have covered for too long, you could easily end up in cycles of having to relearn parts of what you had previously grasped – simply because it has escaped from your memory because of time.

Another good tip is to use a mixture of reading AND writing when you re-cover material. So on one day, simply read the words/symbols you have covered on a prior occasion and on another write them down. This will reinforce the material both visually and kinesthetically, creating more pathways for retrieval from your memory.

Step 2: Once you’ve become comfortable with a few of the lessons in the Primer, it’s time to start learning the alphabet. About the third week after you have started the Primer would be a good time to introduce this into your learning. Start with this video.
 
 

I advise learning one line of the alphabet per week (alongside the material you are covering in the Primer). Note that the video will also help you to build up your Panjabi vocabulary.

Read a line of the alphabet to yourself at least five times, and then write the letters out on a piece of paper. Learning five letters a week, shouldn’t be too taxing. Plus you will already be familar with many of the letters from the exercises you’ve done from the Primer.
You can download a Powerpoint version of the above video which allows you to go through the letters at your own pace using mouse clicks, from here. It's called the 'Panjabi alphabet tutorial' in the presentation section.

Tip: The Gurmukhi alphabet is organised in a very scientific way. I found the video below very handy in highlighting this. It also helped to clarify the otherwise subtle distinctions between different sounds. I strongly advise learners to go through as many times as is neccesary after they have started learning the alphabet. English readers should note how proper tongue placement and aspiration are essential to correct enunciation in Panjabi – and if you don’t understand what this means or if it seems confusing to you, don’t worry, it was the same for me before I watched the video a few times!
 
 
 
 



FAQs.

How often should I study?


As a guide, in a week, I suggest having at least one long session (covering a complete, single lesson from the Primer) and then two subsequent fifteen minute ‘recap sessions’ later in the same week. In these ‘recap’ sessions revisit a representative selection of the example words from the Primer exercises and, later, when you start learning the alphabet, go over some of the lines of the alphabet in each ‘recap session’. Keep these sessions short and focused. In an ideal situation you could have 4 ‘recap’ sessions in addition to your main one, in a week. If you are really keen and inclined to study everyday, I would strongly advise giving yourself at least one day of nonstudy. The brain seems to process certain things in quite a mystical and unconscious way when learning, I’ve found giving yourself short breaks helps with this. But in the final analysis, learn to identify and adopt the strategies that help you to learn in the most efficiently way. Different people find different things helpful.



Where will this get me in terms of language acquisition?


By following the above you will cover the absolute essentials of the written language. By this I mean reading words, and basic sentences.



Where do I go from here?


The answer to the above question will differ according to your grasp of the spoken language. I imagine those wanting to learn the language will broadly come from three types of backgrounds.
 
In the first will be those who have no, or very little previous knowledge of the language, written or spoken (prior to starting the above). I think the next logical step for such people would be to learn to construct longer sentences in Panjabi. So we’re talking about ‘syntax’ here (or more simply put, the order of words in a sentence). To do this you need to steadily build up your Panjabi vocabulary. As a tip, when you start to do this - making it a habit to pay careful attention to the gender of nouns at the outset will be of great advantage later. Make the effort to do this! The second type would have had previous exposure to the spoken language to some degree, say via family circumstances but are not particularly fluent in speaking (a third generation Panjabi in the diaspora for example). Such a person may possess knowledge of at least some of the more rudimentary aspects of the language (like grammar and syntax), even if this understanding is implicit as opposed to explicit. For them I suggest focusing on learning to write what you already know how to speak, or at least hear around you. Take interesting words, phrases and/or sentences you hear around you and learn to write them down. Write down lines from Panjabi songs you like. Supplement this by reading basic books. Translate basic English sentences into Panjabi and vice versa. Make it your goal to know how to read/spell all the Panjabi words you already know, and then add to this vocabulary. For those who already had a good command of the spoken language but were previously unable to read and write it, once your reading speed picks up, I would suggest translating brief Panjabi newspaper or Internet articles that interest you, or small sections of books. Free Panjabi newspapers available from Gurdwaras may be of use to you in this. Websites such as Scribd, Siikhbookclun.com, panjabdigitalbrary and apnaorg also carry a wide selection of freely available Gurmukhi Panjabi books. Don’t be overambitious with translation exercises but at the same time make sure you stretch yourself. As a rule each translation exercise should bring a number of previously unknown words to your attention. Write these downs with their definitions in a notebook. This will help expand your Panjabi vocabulary. Start translating one page, then go onto two, and so forth.  
 
Panjabi dictionaries and typing in Gurmukhi

You can type in Gurmukhi with this site.


Here are two great Panjabi dictionaries you may find useful:

1) Punjabi University, Patiala dictionary

2) Srigranth dictionary


I hope this is of use to some of you. All the best to you and your learning experience. My last piece of advice is to simply get stuck in and enjoy the experience!
 
 

If sitting crossed legs is hard try sitting bir assan for more than 7 mins without pain. The panj pyare have to sit for more than 45 mins in bir assan position.

Now here is the entire bani :
http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=185&L=15&id=7868

ਗਉੜੀ ਗੁਆਰੇਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
गउड़ी गुआरेरी महला ५ ॥
Ga▫oṛī gu▫ārerī mėhlā 5.
Gauree Gwaarayree, Fifth Mehl:
ਕਲਿਜੁਗ ਮਹਿ ਮਿਲਿ ਆਏ ਸੰਜੋਗ ॥
कलिजुग महि मिलि आए संजोग ॥
Kalijug mėh mil ā▫e sanjog.
In the Dark Age of Kali Yuga, they come together through destiny.
ਜਿਚਰੁ ਆਗਿਆ ਤਿਚਰੁ ਭੋਗਹਿ ਭੋਗ ॥੧॥
जिचरु आगिआ तिचरु भोगहि भोग ॥१॥
Jicẖar āgi▫ā ṯicẖar bẖogėh bẖog. ||1||
As long as the Lord commands, they enjoy their pleasures. ||1||
ਜਲੈ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ਰਾਮ ਸਨੇਹੀ ॥
जलै न पाईऐ राम सनेही ॥
Jalai na pā▫ī▫ai rām sanehī.
By burning oneself, the Beloved Lord is not obtained.
ਕਿਰਤਿ ਸੰਜੋਗਿ ਸਤੀ ਉਠਿ ਹੋਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
किरति संजोगि सती उठि होई ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Kiraṯ sanjog saṯī uṯẖ ho▫ī. ||1|| rahā▫o.
Only by the actions of destiny does she rise up and burn herself, as a 'satee'. ||1||Pause||
ਦੇਖਾ ਦੇਖੀ ਮਨਹਠਿ ਜਲਿ ਜਾਈਐ ॥
देखा देखी मनहठि जलि जाईऐ ॥
Ḏekẖā ḏekẖī manhaṯẖ jal jā▫ī▫ai.
Imitating what she sees, with her stubborn mind-set, she goes into the fire.
ਪ੍ਰਿਅ ਸੰਗੁ ਨ ਪਾਵੈ ਬਹੁ ਜੋਨਿ ਭਵਾਈਐ ॥੨॥
प्रिअ संगु न पावै बहु जोनि भवाईऐ ॥२॥
Pari▫a sang na pāvai baho jon bẖavā▫ī▫ai. ||2||
She does not obtain the Company of her Beloved Lord, and she wanders through countless incarnations. ||2||
ਸੀਲ ਸੰਜਮਿ ਪ੍ਰਿਅ ਆਗਿਆ ਮਾਨੈ ॥
सील संजमि प्रिअ आगिआ मानै ॥
Sīl sanjam pari▫a āgi▫ā mānai.
With pure conduct and self-restraint, she surrenders to her Husband Lord's Will;
ਤਿਸੁ ਨਾਰੀ ਕਉ ਦੁਖੁ ਨ ਜਮਾਨੈ ॥੩॥
तिसु नारी कउ दुखु न जमानै ॥३॥
Ŧis nārī ka▫o ḏukẖ na jamānai. ||3||
that woman shall not suffer pain at the hands of the Messenger of Death. ||3||
ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਜਿਨਿ ਪ੍ਰਿਉ ਪਰਮੇਸਰੁ ਕਰਿ ਜਾਨਿਆ ॥
कहु नानक जिनि प्रिउ परमेसरु करि जानिआ ॥
Kaho Nānak jin pari▫o parmesar kar jāni▫ā.
Says Nanak, she who looks upon the Transcendent Lord as her Husband,
ਧੰਨੁ ਸਤੀ ਦਰਗਹ ਪਰਵਾਨਿਆ ॥੪॥੩੦॥੯੯॥
धंनु सती दरगह परवानिआ ॥४॥३०॥९९॥
Ḏẖan saṯī ḏargėh parvāni▫ā. ||4||30||99||
is the blessed 'satee'; she is received with honor in the Court of the Lord. ||4||30||99||

The 'Husband' spoken about is Akaal...

You hold a mean grudge don't you.

What about the people who hide behind the teachings but make no effort whatsoever to be physically capable like a Singh is supposed to be?

Like all those pot bellied granthis.

You know yourself, as per Giani Gian SIngh's observations, it was a norm for Sikhs to be physically training in martial arts before annexation. This was a continuation of practice put in place by dasmesh pita - the tyaar bar tyaar thing people talk about. How comes so many people excuse away laziness and cowardliness by hiding behind the 'teachings'?

The consequences are obvious - Sikhs regularly getting their arses kicked and their girls being abused under their noses.

That being said - I think the message has started to get through to keshdhari Sikhs in London, these days I see a fair few that look like they seriously train it out on the tube. It's about time too....

Too many 'Singhs' have been like the lion in The wizard of Oz

What about if you don't?

Are you going to wait until problems land on your doorstep before you start to train? Isn't that lack of foresight in a obviously volatile world?

What about training so you can also help other people in your community instead of leaving them to the wolves when they get outnumbered?

it is in context to , just as you described

same guru nanak dev ji said
when he saw a muslim arguing with butcher,
he was getting a murgi slaughtered and its blood stains got on the muslims white cloths

and when asked he said "this butcher ruined my sucham , i have to go take bath again and put freshly washed clothes again to go visit mosque "
then guru Nanak dev ji uttered something similar in reply

But the kateb do not acknowledge God as being in all beings, they vehemently argue the opposite.

The Panth Parwan RM is the central maryada of the Panth. It is the most basic maryada, and there is no restrictions on any samprdayes or jathas expanding this maryada to include what they feel is maryada. the Samprdayes have different aspects of maryada, which just expand on this PPRM.

an example is the prayer of Benti Chaupai, the Panth Parwan Maryada says you must read upto pauri 26. All Samprdayes read the whole 31 pauriya, and some read 4 pauriya before the actual Paath.

If you want to discuss this further find an existing thread and let's take it there.



Bhenji, did Bhai Ghaniya, Bhai Nand Lal, Mahant Kirpal do any sewa in the Guru's house?

I really couldnt drag myself to respond to your other copy and paste points again.

From my heart, don't make the same mistake as me, and read things and believe they are the one and only jatha that knows everything. The akj's vision of what Gurmat is, has no place in Sikh history. You can read about the bhasaurias and find out more on this find, and that will give you an idea.

The rest is upto you.

Have you spoken with Sant Jagjit Singh Harkhowale about this issue? I recall him telling the sangat the reasons that Panj Piaray had to be men (similar to Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale's given in the clip above), and also advising that the Singhs in the Panj Piaray needed to be healthy in body (he gave example of why a Singh with a missing limb should not be in the Panj Piaray) as well as in his Sikhi.

My personal opinion is that maryada should not be altered by anyone, brahmgyani or not, if it is Guru given. I also feel that since Khande Ki Pahul was initially a warrior's initiation and given first by 5 Sikhs in male human form, it should always be administered by 5 Sikhs in male human form who have health, strength, and at least some understanding of shastar puja/vidya.

Yes, brahmgyanis are beyond gender in spiritual avastha but their physical roop has a gender, and an energy based on this gender, which is represented and passed on by them during amrit sanchar.

K.

No women cannot be one of the 5 pyare watch this clip it will tell you why.

brilliant point never thought of that.....there you go end of topic.

^ Thats a beautiful way of asking the mind to come home .

Came across the following today:

ਗਉੜੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥ ਰਾਖੁ ਪਿਤਾ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਮੇਰੇ ॥ ਮੋਹਿ ਨਿਰਗੁਨੁ ਸਭ ਗੁਨ ਤੇਰੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਪੰਚ ਬਿਖਾਦੀ ਏਕੁ ਗਰੀਬਾ ਰਾਖਹੁ ਰਾਖਨਹਾਰੇ ॥ ਖੇਦੁ ਕਰਹਿ ਅਰੁ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਸੰਤਾਵਹਿ ਆਇਓ ਸਰਨਿ ਤੁਹਾਰੇ ॥੧॥ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਹਾਰਿਓ ਅਨਿਕ ਬਹੁ ਭਾਤੀ ਛੋਡਹਿ ਕਤਹੂੰ ਨਾਹੀ ॥ ਏਕ ਬਾਤ ਸੁਨਿ ਤਾਕੀ ਓਟਾ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਿ ਮਿਟਿ ਜਾਹੀ ॥੨॥ ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਸੰਤ ਮਿਲੇ ਮੋਹਿ ਤਿਨ ਤੇ ਧੀਰਜੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥ ਸੰਤੀ ਮੰਤੁ ਦੀਓ ਮੋਹਿ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਕਮਾਇਆ ॥੩॥ ਜੀਤਿ ਲਏ ਓਇ ਮਹਾ ਬਿਖਾਦੀ ਸਹਜ ਸੁਹੇਲੀ ਬਾਣੀ ॥ ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਮਨਿ ਭਇਆ ਪਰਗਾਸਾ ਪਾਇਆ ਪਦੁ ਨਿਰਬਾਣੀ ॥੪॥੪॥੧੨੫॥{ਪੰਨਾ 206}

What about water which has life in its aswell. Asa Ki Var - Pehla panee jeo hai. I guess i cant drink water then aswell as not eat vegetarioan.