Niranjana Posted November 10, 2003 Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 sant sahib niranjana akali maha-gangster singh Gur Fateh, Sardar Bahadur Khalsa Sahib...please could I ask that you refrain from using the titles 'sant' and 'akali' in association with my name, these are not words to be played with lightly and I am far from being worthy of such titles...and NEVER refer to me as a Gangster...if you like to think of yourself as being someone out of the 'ghetto' so be it, I certainly am not and am far from being any sort of Gangster, Rude Boy, Homie, Dude or whatever the 'in' or 'cool' phrase maybe at present -no doubt popularised by some HipHop R n'B artist...I am at best a simple Singh Sahib...however, Niranjana will do fine! As per Bhai Chaupa Singh, your comments are noted and I must admit when I first encountered these (back in my late teens) I too had the same reaction, as you would say, too much "dodgy stuff" in these rehitnamas! You hit the nail on the head when you say "we shouldnt discount EVERYTHING he says - but we should be very careful reading his version of the rehat"...this needs to be considered, of course in relation to other rehitnamas, but also the historical occurences,situations and scenarios at the time of writing to understand why these requirements were in place...including the "dodgy" comments relating to brahmins and women...there are reasons for these being present... [note: I am not saying I support these notions in anyway] ...my personal take on the matter of rehitnamas is that they are complete documents in their own right, so cross-referencing them and combining them into one as a means of establishing some sort of ultimate rehit maryada (as is the case presently) does appear to be a little misleading [note: cross-referencing for study is a different thing] in that these articles reflect amongst other things, a snapshot of what was occuring during that time and the requirements needed... ...I personally cannot account for everything in these rehits, and admittedly I find some of the comments unsettling given present day attitudes and conditioning, however I increasingly find the line of thought that these are false rehitnamas that have been 'contaminated' by brahmins and other forces a tad too simplistic an approach to understanding these matters...with time, I'm sure these will become clearer... I note your comments on jewellery, and have no issue with your relation to Shabd Guru, if that is how it is revealed to you...just please accept that not everyone's relationship with Maharaj is the same as yours or mine, hence the same shabds (and others) will reveal themselves in a different way to way they do to you or me...so I ask that you please reconsider making statements such as:- "...cover their face with makeup or wear copious amounts of jewellry, frankly, like a rundhee?" (source: Khalsa Soulja) If you honestly feel that any women wearing jewellery qualifies as a 'rundhee' then, my dear 'soulja' I'm terribly sorry for you...but as I say, I respect your right to have your opinions and views...but remember that they are just that, 'your' views, no matter how many people or papers agree with you, they still remain your views... I thank you for sharing your thoughts on this matter and wish you a pleasent evening. Again, I highly recommend that you consider a rapping stint with the "Undergroud boyz" given your passion for all things 'ghetto' and 'gangsta' Lol! GUR BAR AKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gupt Singh Posted November 10, 2003 Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 Bestest Niranjana, Thanks for your opinions.......... my phrase was: "...cover their face with makeup or wear copious amounts of jewellry, frankly, like a rundhee?" please observe the term "copious". with loads of jewellry, any person is going to look a little bit on the seedy side. i agree my opinion might not be the right one, but its been formulated because no one has ever given a good reason to wear jewellry which ive seen to be inline with sikhi. sorry about calling u gangster but im sure in your teens you were accustomed to "slang" and "in terms"...were u not? unfortunately i havent considered a career in the rap business as a) sikhs havent penetrated that part of hte music market yet and i dont really like music (gave up rap a while ago) that isnt keertan or dhadi cuz i consider it a lil unneccesary, and, well kacchi bani bt thats another issue altogether Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihal_Kaur Posted November 10, 2003 Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 firstly I don't wear jewellery ..not at the moment, but i might when i get married...same for makeup KS I believe that when Guru Maharaj said live simply he meant live a life with not too many complications, a husband and wife should see themselves as excusive to each other and no others should be seen in the same way, if a woman dresses up for her husband, wears makeup, jewellery that is a nice thing, the husband would cherish that. Some men don't want their wives to be like that and some women don't want to do that either....but....some do. Just like living simply also means to eat simply, not too many convenience foods, but nice simple dahl, chol, roti. Also to not have too many possessions, or take pride in them, to not think about what others have in relation to ourselves and then feel jealousy, also to work only enough to to meet our needs. And keeping ourselves clean, wearing clean clothes, good personal hygiene, lots of meditation, contemplation.. are all examples of simple living. However you fail to acknowledge that inside us sits Vaheguru Ji, the true jot, and that is INSIDE...do you think a person with makeup and a person with less makeup would be any different in Vaheguru Jis eyes..in fact he sees the piaar (love) a person has for him, thats what his eyes look at...what do your eyes look at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gupt Singh Posted November 10, 2003 Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 nihal kaur in your post you gave great examples of the perfect life as a sikh - clenliness, namsimran, simple living, etc. what i fail to understand is why make up and jewelry is thrown in there! you are right what is on the outside is not *that* important. but hte motives for wearing jewelry and makeup definately come from the INSIDE......and those motives are going to be anything to do with sikhi. what exactly do you mean, dressing up for ones husband :? if its ok to wear fancy makeup, is it ok to wear expensive clothes? eat expensive food? why or why not? i dont see how its worse to eat posh food with hard earned money, than to rinse it on an ickle bit of gold to dangle off oneself with ones hard earned money. alot of men these days wear rings, necklaces.....i feel no need to wear a chain or ring even if its got a khanda on it....the furthest ive ever gone is wearing a malla for naamjaaping. if you could elaborate on why you feel in the need to have gold dangling off your body, or cover oneself in artificial chemicals to appear differently, i would be greatly appreciative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihal_Kaur Posted November 10, 2003 Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 because it looks nice to the wearer. :roll: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihal_Kaur Posted November 10, 2003 Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 being non judgemental is also a virtue of a sikh..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niranjana Posted November 10, 2003 Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 Bestest Niranjana, unfortunately i havent considered a career in the rap business as a) sikhs havent penetrated that part of hte music market yet and i dont really like music (gave up rap a while ago) that isnt keertan or dhadi cuz i consider it a lil unneccesary, and, well kacchi bani bt thats another issue altogether Sardar Bahadur Khalsa Soulja Sahib! GUR FATEH!!! Bhai Sahib, I'm not a real rap fan, my suggestions are based upon the language and terminology used in your posts which I find qualify you well above anyone else (sorry MC Malkeet Underground Sikhi!) to be the one 'penetrates' the Rap Music Market for the Sikhs...I'm not a fan of 'kacchi' bani either, however there's nothing stopping you from rapping your stuff within a Dhadi format...you have all the 'lingo' and 'gangsta-ness!" necessary! lol! I hope you have a great evening! Thanks for sharing your thougths, I'm happy to 'agree to disagree' on points (many in fact with you! lol) and appreciate your doing the same! Look forward to reading more from you on 'hardcore' Sikhi life in 'ghetto' and underground 'scene' with all the 'Sarabloh Gangstas' diong their 'thang'!!! LOL ...in the meantime, what are you doing up at this hour??? :evil: Surely as a 17 year old, this is way past your bedtime! :oops2: Mr Singh, have a good one... Vahe Guru Raakhaa! GUR BAR AAAAAKKKKKKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLL!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gupt Singh Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 LOL orite man.......10pm aint late tho :roll: i do try n get early nites tho cuz im up early n btw im 16. nihal kaur.......i was hoping for something a little deeper than "because it looks nice to the wearer".......when you say this......do u mean ur ego is boosted? you feel more confident? etc....plez elaborate..... surely you cant see your own earrings unless u look in the mirror......and y wud u stare at urself in the mirro? sorry if ive offended ny1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheena Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 you people are trippin over because a sis wears earing?? Please...don't become fanatics. It is simply an earing.....Yogis wear earing. Are they wrong?? Maybe she likes wearing them...isn't that good enough...forcing someone and telling them they are wrong for wearing them is judging them. It is natural for anyone going thru ( im assuming that she is in her 16-20 years age) such experience. I pierced my ear...because i wanted it and i liked the way it looked, but after few months i realized it wasn't me. Experiences weigh alot more than simply words given to someoen that it is bad to wear earings. Next time your sister or cousin gets married tell her that she can't wear earrings or put on make up because it is bad. Who are you to come inbetween her beloved husband and her. Does anyone come between you and god and tells you, that you can't wear the make up of meditation?? If she wears outside makeup it is still out of the desire for her husband. It isn't a SIN to wear makeup. It all matters onwhat the intentions are. If she is doing it for her husband, who are you to stop her?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihal_Kaur Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 lol ..... i dont wear earrings. :roll: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gupt Singh Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 im not asking people not to wear makeup or jewellry, im asking why they would want to wear it in relation to sikhi. this is a sikhi board afterall :roll: earrings are actually pretty bad.......if they are piercing ones.....cuz piercing is mutilating hthe body as discussed previously..... jewelery is more like rings, necklace etc......or if your a propa desi then ankle bell thingies lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 13, 2003 Report Share Posted November 13, 2003 when it comes to do with anything to to with brahmins or women i do not trust bhai chaupa singh. he claims himself to be one of the original panj pyare, he is also very anti women at times and very pro brahmin. but this doesnt mean we shouldnt discount EVERYTHING he says - but we should be very careful reading his version of the rehat, cross referencing it with other sources to prove what we are saying is right. KS, just wondered, I understand you have studied the Rehatnaama's in more detail than I have, and I respect your views on this topic, also I am becoming convinced that Guru Ji intented for women to wear Keski too. However, Im intrigued that you think it's ok to disregard some of Bhai Chaupa Singh's stuff and take the good stuff to be true, isn't this picking and choosing? You either say it's all false, or every word is true. I mean, in Islaam, you can see that they pick and choose a lot, but in Sikhi it's not the case surely. Just wondered what you thought, thanks. Gurfateh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gupt Singh Posted November 13, 2003 Report Share Posted November 13, 2003 trust me i dont know much about rehatnamas........all i do know is.........if there was one source of the rehat which was reliable thruout.....then there would be no arguments over rehat....but the fact is there are blatantly contradictions in the same rehatnamas as i pointed out in a post written by balpreet singh - bhai chaupa singh blatantly contradicts himself. i think its been obvious theyve been changed as i said.........but we cant really take an all or nothing approach......my way at looking at rehatnamas is........if you can find 3, 4 or 5 rehatnamas which all say the same thing, plus they can be put past the test of gurbani, then they are real. example, say we want to prove what the 4 kurehits are - i know bhai desa singh says it, so does bhai nand lal, now we can also back this up with other rehatnamas, as well as 2 bhatt vahi accounts (v reliable) i know offhand, and im sure most historical texts mention it, as do contemporary reports of the time (theres a musalman who says it, cant remember who)....so from that evidence its obvious what the kurehits are. we definately cant take one rehatnama and say this part of the rehat is definately true. but if many say the same thing it is much more likely. plz correct any mistakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheena Posted November 13, 2003 Report Share Posted November 13, 2003 so basically your approach is that if majority are in agreement, so it must be true? Majority of the Sikhs Lack the dicipline, that does not mean they are on the right path. Majority of the Population of the world is in pain, that does not mean its the only way to live. But i kinda see what you are saying tho, since it has to do with historical refrences and if u find more than one scholars saying the same thing, it has a greater chance to be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gupt Singh Posted November 13, 2003 Report Share Posted November 13, 2003 pheena, how else are we going to work out the proper rehat? do u have an alternative idea? the rehat maryada was worked out, probably in a very similar way. i personally base my opinions on 1. gurbani - sggs, sdgs 2. reliable historical accounts - bhatt vahis, contemporary accounts 3. rehatnamas - bhai daya singh, sau sakhi etc and 4. historical texts like panth prakash - dodgy but they do have some things that can be verified by the previous 2-3. if one rehatnama says do x, i wouldnt put much faith in something if 2 said do x, i would check it against gurbani if 3 said do x, then i would seriously consider it and if 4 different people (and i dont mean "scholars" i mean people like bhai daya singh who are one of the original panj pyare of 1699) all tell me to do this one thing then chances are, its real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amrikingh Posted November 14, 2003 Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 jewelery is more like rings, necklace etc......or if your a propa desi then ankle bell thingies lol there called Chaanjara u joka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amrikingh Posted November 14, 2003 Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 i dont think things like necklaces take you away from waheguroo inless u think there the most important thing (dungars ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gupt Singh Posted November 14, 2003 Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 yeah but why wud u want to wear the necklace in the first place? thats what im attempting to find out ere..........bt no replies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheena Posted November 14, 2003 Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 yeah but why wud u want to wear the necklace in the first place? thats what im attempting to find out ere..........bt no replies you are question the minor things in life...I wear a Gold Necklace around my Neck, I have never liked wearing anything on my fingers or around my neck. It was a Gift from my mother on my 18th birthday. I wear it because she bought it especially for me....mind you we are not very rich, she had to save money for the necklace. I wear it, it does not effect my devotion to God. It does not make me greedy. It is not the Gold that is bad, it is Greed that is bad. Money is not bad, it is the obsession with that money that is the sin. The answer to your question will vary from person to person. Everyone has their reason. If the reason is Obsession or greed, then it is obvious that he/she is misguided and lost in her/his desires. I can wear a necklace and still love God. I don't ahve any desire for gold. I could care less for it. Wearing a necklace is the choice i make for it makes no difference if i had it on or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gupt Singh Posted November 16, 2003 Report Share Posted November 16, 2003 i can have a bacardi breezer and i can still "love" god.........but rehatnamas say......"dont drink" and they also say "dont wear make up or jewlery" "my mommy gave it to me" isnt really the best argument ive heard for wearing jewelry, neither is "it doesnt affect my love for god so its ok"......if thats the only reason then it is totally unneccesary! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheena Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 i can have a bacardi breezer and i can still "love" god.........but rehatnamas say......"dont drink" and they also say "dont wear make up or jewlery" "my mommy gave it to me" isnt really the best argument ive heard for wearing jewelry, neither is "it doesnt affect my love for god so its ok"......if thats the only reason then it is totally unneccesary! Firstly You don't know a thing about me, the answer i gave was personal. I accept that which is given by Love ie: Necklace, a slap, a yelling. Well obviously you didn't understand what i was trying to present to you thru simplicity, yet you are taking it as a life and death situation. Im sorry my answer doesn't meet your expectations. What Rehatnama are you talking about?? Rather Which ONE? Is it from the same Rehat which the writer of that rehat wanted to add Jathka Meat is allowed to it? Did Our 10th Guru wear Gold?? if so well then Image of God himself is not following your Rehat? Did he have greed so he wore it?? No because he was a KING. KING of the SIKHS and if a Measly Sikh of the GURU were to wear a Necklace give by his mother out of Love, he becomes a Sinner?? Wearing a Necklace out of Greed or Desire for Gold is a SIN, for it adds to the attachment to maya. Me Personally could care less for gold, if perhaps you did not read what i wrote. You are correct then it becomes Unneccesary to wear it, but u did not understand that the love it was given with. If me wearing the Necklace makes my mother feel as if i have accepted her Gift. If i had simply thrown it back in her face by saying, " No The Rehat Says no Sikh is allowed to wear Jewlery" YOU probably can, but im sorry i cannot for the love was worth much greater than the Gold Necklace and the Necklace became a Symbol. I don't have attachment to the Necklace, i have attachment to the Love by which the Necklace was given with. If it was a Mala which she gave, i would've wore it. For the Intention it was given with was greater than the object itself. Jewlery is not only made of Gold. The Nihungs wear tons of Metal around them, in forms of weapons, why isn't that Jewlery, because it serves a purpose of protection right. Well my Necklace serves a purpose to my mother, don't confuse this as she will be sadned if she saw me without the Necklace. You should Also question the Brides Wearing Jewlery on their Wedding day and the days following it. The Body is a Temple and the Temple of Sikhism (Harmandir Sahib) is covered with Gold, Why? Shouldn't they set an Example to the Sikhs?? If you can feel the presence of God inside of Harmandir Sahib Regardless of the Covering/Decorating the outter Shell with Gold, then if i wear a Necklace will he Punish me. I will only hurt myself if i Attach myself to that Gold. I don't have the Desire for Gold. Then it makes no difference if i wear it or not. The purpose of Rehat to not allow someone to wear Jewelry/Makeup is so that the desire/Attachment to Maya does not occur, well i am telling you that i have no desire for Gold, so what difference does it make if i wear it or not. When i know and Within me no Desire arises for the Gold arises by the blessing of Waheguru. So keep your Rehat about me wearing a Necklace to yourself...i will take it up with Waheguru when i see him :!: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amrikingh Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 yeah but why wud u want to wear the necklace in the first place? thats what im attempting to find out ere..........bt no replies whats there to be confused about its not gonna go with u is it? nor is your kachera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ideal Singh Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 Firstly You don't know a thing about me, the answer i gave was personal. I accept that which is given by Love ie: Necklace, a slap, a yelling. Well obviously you didn't understand what i was trying to present to you thru simplicity, yet you are taking it as a life and death situation. Im sorry my answer doesn't meet your expectations. What Rehatnama are you talking about?? Rather Which ONE? Is it from the same Rehat which the writer of that rehat wanted to add Jathka Meat is allowed to it? Did Our 10th Guru wear Gold?? if so well then Image of God himself is not following your Rehat? Did he have greed so he wore it?? No because he was a KING. KING of the SIKHS and if a Measly Sikh of the GURU were to wear a Necklace give by his mother out of Love, he becomes a Sinner?? Wearing a Necklace out of Greed or Desire for Gold is a SIN, for it adds to the attachment to maya. Me Personally could care less for gold, if perhaps you did not read what i wrote. You are correct then it becomes Unneccesary to wear it, but u did not understand that the love it was given with. If me wearing the Necklace makes my mother feel as if i have accepted her Gift. If i had simply thrown it back in her face by saying, " No The Rehat Says no Sikh is allowed to wear Jewlery" YOU probably can, but im sorry i cannot for the love was worth much greater than the Gold Necklace and the Necklace became a Symbol. I don't have attachment to the Necklace, i have attachment to the Love by which the Necklace was given with. If it was a Mala which she gave, i would've wore it. For the Intention it was given with was greater than the object itself. Jewlery is not only made of Gold. The Nihungs wear tons of Metal around them, in forms of weapons, why isn't that Jewlery, because it serves a purpose of protection right. Well my Necklace serves a purpose to my mother, don't confuse this as she will be sadned if she saw me without the Necklace. You should Also question the Brides Wearing Jewlery on their Wedding day and the days following it. The Body is a Temple and the Temple of Sikhism (Harmandir Sahib) is covered with Gold, Why? Shouldn't they set an Example to the Sikhs?? If you can feel the presence of God inside of Harmandir Sahib Regardless of the Covering/Decorating the outter Shell with Gold, then if i wear a Necklace will he Punish me. I will only hurt myself if i Attach myself to that Gold. I don't have the Desire for Gold. Then it makes no difference if i wear it or not. The purpose of Rehat to not allow someone to wear Jewelry/Makeup is so that the desire/Attachment to Maya does not occur, well i am telling you that i have no desire for Gold, so what difference does it make if i wear it or not. When i know and Within me no Desire arises for the Gold arises by the blessing of Waheguru. So keep your Rehat about me wearing a Necklace to yourself...i will take it up with Waheguru when i see him :!: Dear Pheena Very nicely explained... Makes a perfect sense to me... Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr §ingh Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 whats there to be confused about its not gonna go with u is it? nor is your kachera well the Kachera has a reason to prevent lust and to be able to move smoothly.. praticle especially in wars and sport :roll: Jewelry incrases the risk of getting HANKAR / EGO /HAUME :? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amrikingh Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 well the Kachera has a reason to prevent lust and to be able to move smoothly.. praticle especially in wars and sport :roll: Jewelry incrases the risk of getting HANKAR / EGO /HAUME :? hahaha, bruv......what im saying to him is its not gonna go wiv u, when u die.......... iz it? I wear jewellery, but no way is it gonna make me all macho and going into da ghetto , i dont think im rich and stuff with, im like anyone else "Its control yaar ..........CONTROL" (apu accent) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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