Waking At Amrit Vela

[mit]

Hello all!

Lately, i have been trying to get up at amrit vela (between 4 and 5 am) and when i do i feel scared for some reason. I have no reason why. At other times i feel fine. Whenever i try and do my paath, i tend to feel tired so i tend to put off doing my paath and say 'ill do it later', but later never comes. Please can somebody advise me on why this happens. I also do my sukhmani sahib, but halfway through something always happens where i need to stop and do other chores around the house. I will be honest, i have a small mandir at my house, and i havnt really set foot in it for a while. When i used to do my paath, we used to have a beautiful energy around the house and we used to get animals come around our house, and even at 3-4 am we would hear birds singing outside, but that doesnt happen anymore. I havnt taken Khande da Pahul. Please can someone help!

Light

Mit

[shaheediyan]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/8636595/Bandgina...ghbir-Singh-Bir

I think this book by Raghbir Singh should be able to provide some comfort, encouragement and understanding.

Sant Niranjan Singh used to say that waking up at amritvela is like fighting a Tiger every morning!

The path of devotion is not easy by any means - and our Gurus make this clear.

The struggle and victory over our mind is what differentiates the Gurmukhs from the rest of the population.

The biigest thing I find that helps is inspiration - be it doing kirtan, listening to kathaa, reading history, doing seva etc - when one is inspired - they are strengthened, when inspiration subsides, so does our success....

Keep yourself inspired.

[JustME]

recently im finding that just "waking up"...............at amritvela is a huge blessing in itself....................try not to ritualise the concept............if ur finding it hard............just wake up.................walk about ur bedroom, have ur nitnem on audio in the background, or go for a walk outside whilst doing ur nitnem...........until this phase passes...............enjoy simply "being" in amritvela...........the rest will sort itself out......just a suggestion

[Kaljug]

Fateh, Mit ji!

I found it helpful to get to an early amrit vela by waking up an hour earlier every two weeks, e.g. if you are used to waking up at 7am, rise at 6am for two weeks, then 5 am, and so on until you get to your preferred time.

If you have a murti at home, and you do not intend to do puja of it again, it might be a good idea to hand it in at your local mandir to end your relationship with your Devi/Devata in a respectful manner.

I believe that what you are noticing about the change in atmosphere at your house is a purely psychological reaction, perhaps as a result of guilt feelings? Only you can answer that, though.

Also, It might be a good idea to come to a decision on whether you want to continue your puja alongside your recitation of bani (in which case, don't neglect your idol) or whether you want to stick to Sikhi.

Regards,

K.

[Xylitol]

A useful tactic I learned from Baba Gurdial Singh ji Tanday wale, tell your mind that if you don't wake up at x am, you don't get to eat. The mind loves to eat and the prospect of having to skip a meal if amrtivela is missed gives some serious motivation to get up!

[Matheen]

"Khalsa karey nit jung...." Amritvela is part of that jung (at least for me!). In my experience, the sangat you keep has a HUGE effect - probably to do with innspiration as mentioned earlier. Ardas helps the most though.

You must choose 1 path - Sikhi or the other one. The best thing, IMHO, would be to donate the stuff from your mandir to the local mandir, or a Hindu friend. Then do ardas to Guru Sahib to show you the way forward.

[mit]

i have a murti and shivalingam at home. I dont put milk on th shivalingam, but i do my paath, then recite Shiva Chalisa, Stuti afterwards. sometimes, i try and recite chandi di vaar afterwards. is this prohibited to do??

Light

Mit

[Matheen]

i have a murti and shivalingam at home. I dont put milk on th shivalingam, but i do my paath, then recite Shiva Chalisa, Stuti afterwards. sometimes, i try and recite chandi di vaar afterwards. is this prohibited to do??

Light

Mit

You can't follow two paths at one time - choose one and follow it with your heart. What will you do when you read Gurbani that says not to worship idols or devte, or Guru Gobind Singh Ji saying they are 'idol breakers'?

If you have contradictions in your mind, it will never get peace.

[mit]

You can't follow two paths at one time - choose one and follow it with your heart. What will you do when you read Gurbani that says not to worship idols or devte, or Guru Gobind Singh Ji saying they are 'idol breakers'?

If you have contradictions in your mind, it will never get peace.

hmmmm! you guys are wicked! I was very confused before i joined this forum, but you guys have cleared many doubts that i had! Thank you all!! May god bless you all with Naam, Health, Wealth and happiness!

Light

Mit

[tSingh]

Matheen

Udasis manage to do it, so I'm sure mit can as well. Its about recognising the real identity of shiva maharaj. There is not necessarily a conflict as long as you recognise that there are different levels of upasna and that murti puja is at the most elemental rather than the most advanced.

[shaheediyan]

tSingh Ji,

Could you expand on that, why would/do Udasis need to worship at an elemental level?

[mit]

tSingh Ji,

Could you expand on that, why would/do Udasis need to worship at an elemental level?

I have heard something similar. This is whats confusing me. i heard that 'Back in the day' alot of followers of Sri guru Hargobing singh ji used to recite 'Brahm Kavach' which arouses the shakti's for Kalika (Maha Kali) and Ma Chandika (Chandi Mata). From what i have gathered, Doing Nitmen and Gur-mantar is a must, but to worship the Devta (Shiva, Mahakaal, Kalika) isnt a wrongful thing to do, so long as you remember Akal Purakh and dont to Murti Pooja. Again, i dont know if theis is heresay, but i heard that Dasam Pita Ji also did Kalika Pooja, but was againt Murti pooja. Also, At sri Hemkunt Sahib ji, there is a Laxman Mandir there, or with in its vacinity, do people who visit Sri Hemkunt Sahib Ji, go there also? is there a Murti in that Mandir? 2 years ago, we went to india, me and the mrs, and there was a guy there who was saying that at certain times maha kali has been seen doing bhakti at the same place as Dasam Pita ji and said that there has been instances there others have seen her doing matha Teekh to the Gurudwara there. Another story is about a Gurudwara in africa. There was a cleaner there who saw Dasam Pita on his horse there and actually saw Dasam Pit Ji doing Matha Teekh there.

Sorry if im wrong guys!

Light

Mit.

[Matheen]

Leaving Udasis aside, if Gurbani says that the Devte long to take birth as humans so they can do bhagti and get mukti, then why worship them? Gurbani also says not to worship anyone except Akaal Purakh so it comes down to who you accept as your Guru. If your Guru is Gurbani, then do what Gurbani says.

Dasam Pita didn't do pooja of anything but Akaal Purakh - read Sri Dasam Granth ji. Sant Isher Singh Ji mention this in a couple of deevans, Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji also debunk that myth and I think Sant Jagjit Singh Ji Harkhowal wale also mentioned this in one of their recordings.

I know about that particular Gurudwara (Makindu) in Kenya - there are no murtis there, I can assure you.

Living as Guru Ji has asked us to live and reading/following Gurbani, doing Simran etc automatically attracts shaktis - that's what ridhya/sidhya are, but we don't worship them at any stage. If you do start puja of shaktis/devte etc, and you begin to get their 'pehra', it can be very hard to get 'shutkara' from them. This probably sounds like mumbo-jumbo, but is something I've seen.

Hope this helps!

[mit]

Leaving Udasis aside, if Gurbani says that the Devte long to take birth as humans so they can do bhagti and get mukti, then why worship them? Gurbani also says not to worship anyone except Akaal Purakh so it comes down to who you accept as your Guru. If your Guru is Gurbani, then do what Gurbani says.

Dasam Pita didn't do pooja of anything but Akaal Purakh - read Sri Dasam Granth ji. Sant Isher Singh Ji mention this in a couple of deevans, Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji also debunk that myth and I think Sant Jagjit Singh Ji Harkhowal wale also mentioned this in one of their recordings.

I know about that particular Gurudwara (Makindu) in Kenya - there are no murtis there, I can assure you.

Living as Guru Ji has asked us to live and reading/following Gurbani, doing Simran etc automatically attracts shaktis - that's what ridhya/sidhya are, but we don't worship them at any stage. If you do start puja of shaktis/devte etc, and you begin to get their 'pehra', it can be very hard to get 'shutkara' from them. This probably sounds like mumbo-jumbo, but is something I've seen.

Hope this helps!

Cheers for the reply! whats 'Shutkra'? sorry. Regarding the Brahm Kavach, was that read ack in times of war etc?

Thanks Again

light

Mit

[Matheen]

Cheers for the reply! whats 'Shutkra'? sorry. Regarding the Brahm Kavach, was that read ack in times of war etc?

Thanks Again

light

Mit

Shutkara - to get them to leave you alone when you stop doing their puja - to break away from them can be difficult for some people.

There are alot of legends and myths about Brahm Kavach - as far as I know, it was read for protection. There is nothing to suggest it was for devi/devta puja - just like Chandi di Vaar isn't puja of the devti.

[Kaljug]

Matheen

Udasis manage to do it, so I'm sure mit can as well. Its about recognising the real identity of shiva maharaj. There is not necessarily a conflict as long as you recognise that there are different levels of upasna and that murti puja is at the most elemental rather than the most advanced.

TSingh ji,

Could you explain how the Udasis reconcile the prohibition in Sikhi against idol worship and their murti puja? Perhaps we could have the discussion in a new thread?

Regards,

K.

[valli singh]

.

[Kaljug]

Shutkara - to get them to leave you alone when you stop doing their puja - to break away from them can be difficult for some people.

This is true, the Devis and Devatas can become jealous, though many Sikhs may find that this belief smacks of superstition. In my family, there was a Singh who was previously from a part of the family that worshipped Maha Mai. When he decided to follow Sikhi completely, he experienced a great deal of turmoil initially after giving up Devi Puja until he'd settled into a rhythm of naam simran and bani. It wasn't pleasant, I'm told, but it did give him the impetus to do a great deal of bhagti and it made him an excellent example of a naam abhyasi Gursikh.

Mit ji:

In my opinion, until you decide that you want to follow one path and not the other (that's if you decide to follow one and not both - IMO, I don't think it's possible to serve more than one master), it would be best to do what you are normally expected to do to care for your shivaling and murti as well as doing your bani.

Some say that you also need strict rehat before you should recite Chandi bani as it can cause krodh instead of bir rass. I have also been told that one should always do sampooran Anand Sahib after reciting Chandi di Var (since Chandi bani is yudh bani and Anand Sahib gives shaanti), so you want to consider doing that if you wish.

On a final personal note, I think it's great that you are showing so much enthusiasm and interest in doing things in a correct and respectful manner.

Regards,

K.

[mit]

Thank you all once again!

Sorry to be doing your heads in about all this! I don’t do murti pooja now, I do my nitnem, and after that I read my shiv chalisa after that. I did do murti pooja loooong time ago, but my heart got attached to bani, so I started to do my nitnem.

Thank you all again for your help and guidance, God Bless

Mit

[tSingh]

Sorry for the delay!

I'm not an Udasi, so treat my words with caution. However, I have spent time with a few Udasis, and visited a lot of Udasi ashrams/deras across north India. It would be very inaccurate to state that Sri Guru Granth Sahib is the ishtadev at Udasi ashrams, since all of the ones I've seen outside of punjab do not have prakash of sri guru granth sahib. There is always generally a shaiva leaning at Udasi ashrams because of Baba Sri Chand's identity and perhaps also because Shiva is the ideal for tapasvi svarup that Udasis adopt. Prachar of Gurmat, I think this is still there, but perhaps not as explicitly as in the past. There are many incredibly learned scholars and realised saints among the Udasis, but with it a lot of diversity. Its important to remember that a sadhu is a sadhu, meaning that they are all generally working towards the same goal.

On Murti Puja - there are always murtis at Udasin ashrams of devi devte, at the very least a shiva-ling, often the panch devtas because many of the Udasis I've come across have panchdev upasana as a basic set up for the ashram. The panch devte not only bring together all the division sections of the Hindu community (shaiva, vaishnav, shakta, followers of ganesh, etc), but are said to represent the five mahabhuta gunas. While this is the form of upasana for devotees, Udasis are generally nirguna advaita-vadis (gurmat) thus strive for brahamgyan. I once had a book, now stolen, called 'Murti Puja' by Svami Shankar Das Chakravarti (i think) printed in the early 20th century, during the time of the Akalis, defending the practice of murti puja as part of not only udasi mat, but also gurumat.

Regards the devi, whatever people feel here, I think there will always be a diversity of views about whether the devi manifested. Our older historical sources say that the Devi did manifest. Devi puja seems to be something well established among the Udasis also. The important issue is how the devtas are understood. Obviously Mahakaal and Mahakaalikaa can be taken as Shiva and Devi, they are also taken to be Sargun Parmeshvar and dynamic Maya-prakrti-shakti. There doesn't necessarily have to be any opposition between these two interpretations, although certainly Nirmale opt for the latter. This difference of opinion comes through in the 19th century clash between Kavi Santokh Singh and Swami Anandghan on the status of the devtas and Japuji Sahib. This suggests that this emphasis on the devte among many Udasis is not merely a post-Singh Sabha thing. Whatever the earlier reality, Udasis have been maintaining for a long time (see the writings of the great saint Swami Gangeshvaranand Ji, Mahant Anantananda Ji, Bada Udasin Panchayti Akhara, etc) that Baba Sri Chandar ji was part of a lineage traced back to Brahmaa, that Shiva took avatar as Baba Sri Chand to restore sanatan hindu dharam, etc.

From my experience, these practices are not i) for the sake of keeping their independence from the SGPC ii) to attract Hindus into the ashram to then do prachar of gurumat. Both are explanations that are too simplisitc. Again from my limited knowledge I would acknowledge that the last century has seen the Udasis make a concerted shift towards the Hindu mainstream, but I think there has always been that strong and influential base of Hindu followers in the north west of what was pre-partition india and beyond.

Yet...Udasis continue to hold the Guru Sahiban in the highest esteem as avatars of Bhagvan, continue to do prachar of the nirguna advaita vaad of gurumat, and continue to emphasise meditation through naam (I once spent a hot afternoon scowering the banks of mathura for a very old asthan of Sri Guru Nanak Dev, where he took ishnan in sri yamuna, presided over by the Udasis. Eventually there was a small kind of ashram set up, with bare rooms for udasin saadhs at a very quiet bank. Outside the kutiya was a very small mandir in which was a small murti of Baba Sri Chand and in devanagri above in silk was 'satinam', which says everything about the key feautures of Udasi mat)

Hope this helps.