Mr Sardar Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 (edited) [REMOVED] Edited December 10, 2015 by sarbatdapala 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Baba Fareed was a muslim but Sant Kabir was not 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sardar Posted January 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Baba Farid bani contradicts certain elemnets of haddith like halal meat however maybe it was his genuine idea that it is wrong or revelation or al-taquia to spread islam hard to know. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaljug Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 (edited) The quran makes no mention of stoning, but: 5:33 Those who wage war against God and His Messenger and strive to spread corruption in the land should be punished by death, crucifixion, the amputation of an alternate hand and foot or banishment from the land: a disgrace for them in this world, and then a terrible punishment in the Hereafter I'm pretty sure that if Jesus had a problem with stoning, he'd have a bigger one with crucifixion. The reason that Sufism is so close to Sikhi is because of the influence of Indian and other religions which affected its development, not because the original Islam was anything like Sikhi. What you are doing is making up a revisionist history of Islam to make it more palatable - for yourself or for the sangat, I don't know which yet. K. Edited January 21, 2011 by Kaljug 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silence Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 (edited) baba fareed ji and bhagat kabir ji were not muslim,there is no way that either was a folower of mohammed when he did ucharan of dhur ki bani which is Satguru. as for islam: http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/41588-bachitter-natak-on-muhammad/ (scroll down to the post by 'UKGupt Kaur') Edited January 21, 2011 by Silence 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Silence: According to the bani of Baba Fareed he did not believe in reincarnation and he used to pray in mosques 5 times a day. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 The houris are mentioned many times in dasam bani... If i remember correctly there is a tuk where Maharaj says something like "I killed him and he went straight to paradise to company the houris" or something similiar. Page 120, Line 7 Thousand of houris (beautiful heavenly damsels) move in the sky; they move forward to marry the martyrs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 The houris are mentioned many times in dasam bani... If i remember correctly there is a tuk where Maharaj says something like "I killed him and he went straight to paradise to company the houris" or something similiar. Page 120, Line 7 Thousand of houris (beautiful heavenly damsels) move in the sky; they move forward to marry the martyrs. If you read DG in general, it quickly becomes apparent that Guru ji uses a lot of metaphor and poetic imagery/language. So you can't really take the above statement literally. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 If you read DG in general, it quickly becomes apparent that Guru ji uses a lot of metaphor and poetic imagery/language. So you can't really take the above statement literally. DalSingh Ji, would you care to venture a different view of what it could mean? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdsingh80 Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Silence: According to the bani of Baba Fareed he did not believe in reincarnation and he used to pray in mosques 5 times a day. Does it mean that bani of Bhagat fareed ji contradict bani of Guru's and other bhagats who use to believe in reincarnation? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laalsingh Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 The houris are mentioned many times in dasam bani... If i remember correctly there is a tuk where Maharaj says something like "I killed him and he went straight to paradise to company the houris" or something similiar. Page 120, Line 7 Thousand of houris (beautiful heavenly damsels) move in the sky; they move forward to marry the martyrs. Interesting! Search revealed that word 'hoor' comes numerous times in DG. Concept is something like fighters dying in battle and hoors in sky waiting for them to marry them. Following two lines use word 'hoor' in battle of Ramayana. ਮਾਗੜਦੰਗ ਮਾਰੇ ਸਾਗੜਦੰਗ ਸੂਰੰ ॥ ਬਾਗੜਦੰਗ ਬਯਾਹੈਂ ਹਾਗੜਦੰਗ ਹੂਰੰ ॥੫੭੬॥ Ram killed the brave fighters who were wedded by the heavenly damsels. ਜਾਗੜਦੰਗ ਜਾਗੇ ਸਾਗੜਦੰਗ ਸੂਰੰ ॥ ਘਾਗੜਦੰਗ ਘੁੱਮੀ ਹਾਗੜਦੰਗ ਹੂਰੰ ॥ The mighty warrior Lakshman regained his senses and the roaming heavenly damsels went back; Seems like everybody gets 'hoor', even the bad guys. Where it came from? From Quran or it is some ancient Indian thing? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laalsingh Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Does it mean that bani of Bhagat fareed ji contradict bani of Guru's and other bhagats who use to believe in reincarnation? It means that it does not matter if reincarnation exists or not. What matters is you have this body until death. ਲਾਹਾ ਲੈ ਲਓ। 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sardar Posted January 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 (edited) Ok sufism may have basically stolen many bits of Hindu dharam, Buddhism, Greek mythology, Zorostrainsm and many past religions even some we know longer know of. Sufism by some is believed to be origins so if that is the case then it may need to be looked into deeper. How about Sufism's predecessor mysticism of Gnosticism and Kabbalah anyone have insights into these. The idea of Islam at the moment in many Pakistanis is sufism itself but when introduced to Haddiths they become socially corrupt as people. Basically majority of the Pakistanis were all manipulated do you think it may be possible to make that apparent to them one day? Edited January 24, 2011 by sarbatdapala 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Im starting Islamic studies at the university next week.. will be interesting to see how reliable hadith litterature is in the light of historical methodology 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Im starting Islamic studies at the university next week as part of what course? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted January 24, 2011 Report Share Posted January 24, 2011 Electives.. Im starting a course on indian religions also (Buddhism and hinduism)... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted January 25, 2011 Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 (edited) DalSingh Ji, would you care to venture a different view of what it could mean? Well from what I have read of the depictions of battlefields in the DG, Guru ji seems to have adopted a brilliant style that is a mixture of gritty realism with the incorporation of mythology from various sources. I'm just saying that this could explain the references to houris looking to wed dead soldiers, imagery clearly taken from Islamic lore. At other places he uses more Indic references to create his depiction and in other instances realistic imagery is used i.e. wounded people wailing on the field. I don't think the houri references are literal, I think they are more poetic. Sikhi doesn't really focus on warriors being rewarded with virgin nymphos after death now does it? Edited January 25, 2011 by dalsingh101 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sardar Posted January 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 (edited) [REMOVED] Edited December 10, 2015 by sarbatdapala 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sardar Posted January 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 (edited) [REMOVED] Edited December 10, 2015 by sarbatdapala 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sardar Posted January 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2011 (edited) [REMOVED] Edited December 10, 2015 by sarbatdapala 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sardar Posted February 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) [REMOVED] Edited December 10, 2015 by sarbatdapala 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted February 6, 2011 Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 bulleh shah stopped banda singh bahadur from killing muslims as he wanted to take revenge for shabzedey martyrdom, bulleh shah told him he would not be any different from Aurangzeb then if he done that (I am abit skeptic about that statement) Where did he say that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Sardar Posted February 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) [REMOVED] Edited December 10, 2015 by sarbatdapala 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatanga1 Posted February 7, 2011 Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 there is no record of Baba Banda Singh and Bulleh Shah ever having met. the writer harish singh dhillon has wrote in his book of Baba Banda Singhs life, that they met, but he says himself that the book is written with a dramatical slant on historical base. He says that when Banda Singh was paraded thru delhi, Bulleh Shah had a conversation with him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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