Can Someone Be A Keshdharis Sikh And Gay At The Same Time?

[HSD1]

In a society where people can make up a whole identity, based on the data that as males they like to have sex with other males, is a society teetering on the edge of the pit. No one denies that these unnatural acts have occured throughout history. But a big difference is that there were certain rules of behaviour, in the past, that were known as rules of NATURAL MORAL ORDER. Which were created over the course of many generations for the harmonious and coherent functioning of society. Now with no Natural Moral Order people feel free to 'express' all their unnaturalities in order to standardise and normalise them. It should be accepted that a Man goes with a Woman, anything deviating from this is against natural law and therefore against God and causes suffering to the person because it goes against natural instincts and will cause remorse for him later on. And I would say gays are possessed, possessed by an idea that causes them to override natural impulses, an external factor that enters into them and moves them in the Gay direction. All this 'i was born gay' BS is a self justification for gays to make their own Raj a gay kingdom which is their secret aim and conspiracy, eventhey have infiltrated Sikhs how sad. Please WAKE UP and dont let the gays make their Gay Raj by supporting them ideologically, being gay is wrong. But if you have to be gay it is ok to do it quietly in private, just don't try to make a Gay Raj.

Rather live in a Gay Raj then a Paedophilic Donkey-Shagger Raj.

Edited February 8, 2011 by HSD 2

[chatanga1]

You know what, I think there is a homo reference in the original Panth Prakash text but I have never been able to translate/fully understand it?

I've attached it, incase anyone can nail it (pun intended).

the only word i could pick out on the 1st line is gaand meaning anus.

the 2nd line saying something like surrounded by soldiers on all sides, he is set alight.

Edited February 8, 2011 by chatanga1

[chatanga1]

And I would say gays are possessed, possessed by an idea that causes them to override natural impulses, an external factor that enters into them and moves them in the Gay direction.

for them the natural impulse is for other people of the same gender. what ideas do you think they get? and gay direction? you having a laugh?

[HSD1]

That's because they are mostly fags themselves (or have tendencies that way inclined) and are repressing it and it is coming out all ugly and angry like it always does with them. That's what I reckon. Seriously.

Maybe its because english women and men look so alike? It's quite easy to mistake a white man with long hair for a white woman sometimes. I think all this acceptance of homosexuality wont last in england. Give it 30 years and they'll go back to how they were.

[dalsingh101]

Okay, on repeated requests from a certain forum member who is clearly fascinated by the matter, and who shall remain anonymous <ahem.....HSD!>, I will attempt to translate the gand related portion of Panth Parkash posted earlier.

I would like to take the opportunity to say, I for one will not judge a brother for certain...err..predilections....

here goes.....

Edited February 8, 2011 by dalsingh101

[HSD1]

Okay, on repeated requests from a certain forum member who is clearly fascinated by the matter, and who shall remain anonymous <ahem.....HSD!>, I will attempt to translate the gand related portion of Panth Parkash posted earlier.

I would like to take the opportunity to say, I for one will not judge a brother for certain...err..predilections....

here goes.....

As usual the older generation try to cover their tracks by blaming the young. Lets not forget it was HE who brought this all up. Anyway, get translating.

[dalsingh101]

Pad arth of first line:

ਗਡਵਾਉਣਾ - to get something pitched, planted, fixed, buried

ਕਿੱਲਾ ਗੱਡਣਾ - to drive a ਕਿੱਲਾ (into); figurative usage to establish oneself firmly

ਗਾਂਡ - anus

ਗੈਲ - rut (groove, track) or with along, by, by means of

ਘਿਸਟਾਇ - No idea, couldn't find definition???

ਵਹਿੜ - young cow, heifer

Interestingly found this too under ਵਹਿੜ ......

ਜੱਟ ਬੂਟ

ਜੱਟ ਵਹਿੜ - rustic, boor, yokel; an illiterate, dull, simple, unsophisticated person!! So Jatt boot is an actual Panjabi word!!?? WTF??

Guys, I don't even want to try and put those words together man.......

[Xylitol]

a gay person can certainly be a sikh and i would not condemn them for it, but the idea of same sex anand karaj is abhorrent. Despite that a person can be born gay, it doesn't mean that same sex relations are ok. Just like people may feel other sorts of perversions due to past karams, perhaps even perversions that came to them from birth, but those remain unjustifiable in light of Gurmat. The energy of same sex couples is not complementary, ie, not made for each other, unlike that of a male and female.

[laalsingh]

Even if gay tendencies are present in gays since birth, that does not mean they have to act on it. It is never an excuse to indulge in these unnatural activities.

We have to face many temptations, some are acceptable. Others, we have to control. We are not animals that we have to act on every temptation. This behavior is pure manmat.

[Mekhane'ch Jannat]

'for them the natural impulse is for other people of the same gender'

This is not a natural impulse coming from within i.e. an impulse of an individuals ESSENCE. But an outside impulse grafted onto the PERSONALITY, which overrides natural impulses which are present in the human ESSENCE. The increase of ideas and pseudo-concepts (inc. fake sciences l;ike economics) cause a growth in personality which is fake because it comes from outside. There is a difference between human ESSENCE and human PERSONALITY. As I said personality comes from what people -- or outside forces like the media -- tell YOU you are, and essence is the innate sanskars you are born with. As this civilization worships personality and hates anything coming from essence, there are many gays that are not gay from their inherent sanskaars but are gay because they worship or identify with personality and therefore like automatons fall under the influence of gay ideas/forces (ideas are forces as they 'move' YOU see ideomotor theory) This is what I meant, tongue in cheek, about the gay raj.

In any self respecting, honourable society if a male was found out to have 'gay sanskaars' then maybe a special place away from others could be made for them where they can eliminate this sanskaar and then continue on the path to human self-perfection. It is something undesirable in a Human Being akin to paedophilia or animal sex or excessive kaam, something which needs to be understood and then transformed into a more higher noble attribute. To normalise this tendency which is unbecoming to Human Beings as was said pure manmat, is to show a lack of compassion to others, by making stronger their own weaknesses and not helping them by uprooting these weaknesses.

[chatanga1]

ਘਿਸਟਾਇ - No idea, couldn't find definition???

this is from Panth Parkash :

ਖਾਨ ਬਹਾਦਰ ਮਾਰਿੳ ਤਾਰੂ ਸਿੰਘ ਘਿਸਟਾਇ ।। (ਪੰਨਾ 383)

its saying : Khan Bahadur said, kill Taru Singh, and im guessing ਘਿਸਟਾਇ means with pain/torture or prolonged possibly.

[Mithar]

'for them the natural impulse is for other people of the same gender'

This is not a natural impulse coming from within i.e. an impulse of an individuals ESSENCE. But an outside impulse grafted onto the PERSONALITY, which overrides natural impulses which are present in the human ESSENCE. The increase of ideas and pseudo-concepts (inc. fake sciences l;ike economics) cause a growth in personality which is fake because it comes from outside. There is a difference between human ESSENCE and human PERSONALITY. As I said personality comes from what people -- or outside forces like the media -- tell YOU you are, and essence is the innate sanskars you are born with. As this civilization worships personality and hates anything coming from essence, there are many gays that are not gay from their inherent sanskaars but are gay because they worship or identify with personality and therefore like automatons fall under the influence of gay ideas/forces (ideas are forces as they 'move' YOU see ideomotor theory) This is what I meant, tongue in cheek, about the gay raj.

In any self respecting, honourable society if a male was found out to have 'gay sanskaars' then maybe a special place away from others could be made for them where they can eliminate this sanskaar and then continue on the path to human self-perfection. It is something undesirable in a Human Being akin to paedophilia or animal sex or excessive kaam, something which needs to be understood and then transformed into a more higher noble attribute. To normalise this tendency which is unbecoming to Human Beings as was said pure manmat, is to show a lack of compassion to others, by making stronger their own weaknesses and not helping them by uprooting these weaknesses.

Amazing post brother. Totally agree with you, especially the bit in bold.

[chatanga1]

In any self respecting, honourable society if a male was found out to have 'gay sanskaars' then maybe a special place away from others could be made for them where they can eliminate this sanskaar and then continue on the path to human self-perfection.

you mean like how the christian ministers claim to heal gay people?

[HSD1]

This is not a natural impulse coming from within i.e. an impulse of an individuals ESSENCE. But an outside impulse grafted onto the PERSONALITY, which overrides natural impulses which are present in the human ESSENCE. The increase of ideas and pseudo-concepts (inc. fake sciences l;ike economics) cause a growth in personality which is fake because it comes from outside.

Completely offtopic but I feel it needs to be said: I studied economics for a while and it is a load of rubbish. People still argue over theories from the Victorian period and most of the new thinking is totally devoid of reality. Having said that, the western economic thinking of the 18th and 19th century has its uses. Its because of the economics of that period that the british were able to surround, infiltrate and corrupt the Khalsa Empire. Using their firm grasp of economics they then built up their armies on our borders so that they could fight a war of attrition. A war they knew they would win because they could afford to replace entire armies where as we couldnt. Why do I bring this up? To show you the truth. When tryrants, wicked men and unholy prophets preach hate and amass their armies to wreak havoc on the world, where is the Khalsa? Where are our divisions, our squadrons, our fleets? How do we fight injustice in this world when we dont have the means to? Or even understand how to? Miri and Piri anyone?

There is a difference between human ESSENCE and human PERSONALITY. As I said personality comes from what people -- or outside forces like the media -- tell YOU you are, and essence is the innate sanskars you are born with. As this civilization worships personality and hates anything coming from essence, there are many gays that are not gay from their inherent sanskaars but are gay because they worship or identify with personality and therefore like automatons fall under the influence of gay ideas/forces (ideas are forces as they 'move' YOU see ideomotor theory) This is what I meant, tongue in cheek, about the gay raj.

We've only got your word for it. Until we find a gay or lesbian sikh and ask them we wont know whether your talking rubbish or if you have a point.

In any self respecting, honourable society if a male was found out to have 'gay sanskaars' then maybe a special place away from others could be made for them where they can eliminate this sanskaar and then continue on the path to human self-perfection. It is something undesirable in a Human Being akin to paedophilia or animal sex or excessive kaam,

What is paedophilia and what is animal sex? In Japan the legal age of consent is 13. In india they are planning legislation to allow 12 year olds to have sex with one another. The christian church is one of europe's oldest paedophile rings. The less said about the muslims the better, but we all know of the numerous infrared nocturnal videos on youtube from apache gunships in iraq showing what pious muslim men do to their donkeys when the sun goes down. My point is that all these supposed civilised, respectable societies are not as good as you think they are. Stop using ignorance and lack of understanding to prove your point. If a gay man wants to go off with another gay man to live a normal life then all I can say is good luck to them. Far better that then get married to a women who you have to lie to for the rest of your marriage.

To normalise this tendency which is unbecoming to Human Beings as was said pure manmat, is to show a lack of compassion to others, by making stronger their own weaknesses and not helping them by uprooting these weaknesses.

Lol, sikhs have many weaknesses that they hide in a number of ways. They are far too numerous and offtopic for me to go into but I still find it amusing that no one has provided religous evidence to back them, just their own personal interpretations based on quasi-spirituality.

Edited February 9, 2011 by HSD 2

[HSD1]

We have to face many temptations, some are acceptable

Why are some acceptable and others not? Anyway no one is advising promiscuity on this thread.

[dalsingh101]

The crux of the matter is just how far we go individually and as a quom on the issue?

One thing is for certain, I hope we don't go the Taleban route and start throwing them off second story buildings or crashing walls on them with tanks.

Then what about all of the people who end up working with them in professional environments? What's a Singh supposed to do? Avoid them? Plus lets be real, Panjab has had kusray and other whatnots roaming about quite freely, so it isn't like we haven't tolerated such things before?

Hell, my brother refuses to go Panjab because he met some of those weirdos when he went as a youngster and they scared him. Those weirdos who threaten to show you their 'business' (or lack of!) unless you pay them. I'd say Panjab is pretty f**ked with weird stuff like that.

Plus did you guys in the UK see that show when Paul Merton went Panjab and they showed those butch ass Panjabi blokes dressed as women...wtf!

So it appears as if Panjabis generally seem to have traditionally tolerated gandus and other weirdos anyway.

Maybe some back home brothers can explain this?

Look I'm not exactly pro gandu, but I wouldn't go as far as to say I am anti.

Edited February 10, 2011 by dalsingh101

[kdsingh80]

Plus lets be real, Panjab has had kusray and other whatnots roaming about quite freely, so it isn't like we haven't tolerated such things before?

Khusreys are found in all over India,Punjab is no exception .Lot of myths are associated with them Like God always hear their prayer,or their blessings have power etc.But if one give their example by saying that they are accepted in Indian society then he is wrong.They live like an outcaste in society apart from begging and asking for money they don't have any occupation or should I say that no one will accept them in any type of occupation

also Khusreys are also found in Pakistan too and I don't think i ever heard they are being killed even from the most fanatic muslims

Edited February 9, 2011 by kdsingh80

[dalsingh101]

But they still seem okay with them at weddings or other celebrations?

Edited February 9, 2011 by dalsingh101

[kdsingh80]

But they still seem okay with them at weddings or other celebrations?

Why not when the myth that their blessing bring goodness then definately they are accepted on occassion when their is happiness in the family.

[dalsingh101]

Why not when the myth that their blessing bring goodness then definately they are accepted on occassion when their is happiness in the family.

Okay, so we can say generally Panjabi Sikh society seems to accept homo, transgendered and transvestite type men on the basis that they can act as talismans and bring good luck.....

hmmmm

And we think western society is messed up with its own homo position.....

[kdsingh80]

Okay, so we can say generally Panjabi Sikh society seems to accept homo, transgendered and transvestite type men on the basis that they can act as talismans and bring good luck.....

hmmmm

And we think western society is messed up with its own homo position.....

Are they accepted as men? the answer is no .they have to dress and live like a woman.If your are known some of Indian society then Hijra ,chakka is one of the favourate slang used on boys men .

as far blessing part is concerned then It is an entire Indian or even in pakistan culture

[Mekhane'ch Jannat]

kay, so we can say generally Panjabi Sikh society seems to accept homo, transgendered and transvestite type men on the basis that they can act as talismans and bring good luck.....

Yes, things that signify auspiciousness and auspiciousness are known as omens. Omenology in India is a known science, one of the Vedanga's that is known as Nimitta. For instance totally black animals are known as unlucky (due it being Shani Ji's/Saturns colour) so if you see a black cat when you for instance start out to the bank for a loan this could be an omen of misfortune that you will not get a loan. Please do not mock traditional beliefs as they contain much wisdom.

I studied economics for a while and it is a load of rubbish. People still argue over theories from the Victorian period and most of the new thinking is totally devoid of reality. Having said that, the western economic thinking of the 18th and 19th century has its uses. Its because of ...................

You are right the economic view allowed the british to conquer the world. But the cost was quite immense - you could say they *sold out* To a certain character named Mephistopheles who taught the British this science <<---- if you do a search on this characters name you will find out what the British had to give up to gain this so called science. And you advocate the Khalsa to use this vile means how despicable! The end does not justify the means. For the dangers and inhumane consequences of economic ideology please see "Rationality and the ideology of Disconnection".

My point is that all these supposed civilised, respectable societies are not as good as you think they are. Stop using ignorance and lack of understanding to prove your point.

I agree, but i just offer an ideal on how things maybe should be, i do not mention any particular place or society.

Edited February 9, 2011 by Mekhane'ch Jannat

[HSD1]

But the cost was quite immense - you could say they *sold out* To a certain character named Mephistopheles who taught the British this science <<---- if you do a search on this characters name you will find out what the British had to give up to gain this so called science.

An imaginary character from German folklore? OKaaaaay then.

And you advocate the Khalsa to use this vile means how despicable!

Nope, I dont. Read my post again, I just said we have to be aware of what is going on and why people are doing it.

The end does not justify the means. For the dangers and inhumane consequences of economic ideology please see "Rationality and the ideology of Disconnection".

Like I said before I think modern economics is devoid of reality. Again I dont know where you're getting the idea that I am advocating any of it.

I agree, but i just offer an ideal on how things maybe should be, i do not mention any particular place or society.

Again, until a gay or lesbian sikh posts on here then we wont be able to understand where their coming from.

[Mekhane'ch Jannat]

An imaginary character from German folklore? OKaaaaay then.

Sorry to keep going off-topic but this character is an important player in Archetypal History. Just as there are characters in physical history there are also characters in the realm of the psyche but they do not have physical bodies but possess an intelligence. On a smaller fragmented personal level you make a pact with this chap when you indulge in temporary sensory pleasure when you know you shouldn't or you take more from the world than is alloted to you, in exchange for.....well..... something or other..

[dalsingh101]

Yes, things that signify auspiciousness and auspiciousness are known as omens. Omenology in India is a known science, one of the Vedanga's that is known as Nimitta. For instance totally black animals are known as unlucky (due it being Shani Ji's/Saturns colour) so if you see a black cat when you for instance start out to the bank for a loan this could be an omen of misfortune that you will not get a loan. Please do not mock traditional beliefs as they contain much wisdom.

So on one hand you are espousing respect for this 'omenology' and on the other you are apparently castigating the lady-boy types who are considered to be one of these very 'omens'?

Plus calling omenology a science is complete rubbish.

You ever read this about the subject?

http://www.searchgurbani.com/bhai_gurdas_vaaran/vaar/5/pauri/8/line/3

Edited February 10, 2011 by dalsingh101