SikhKhoj Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Most of the literature we get is either from Guru Gobind Singhs court poets or later works (post 1720s). Didn't Sikhs write down Sakhis, historical accounts, teekas during the other Gurus time? Sikh communities were settled since about 1530s (Guru Nanak settling in Kartarpur). Didn't Sikhs take interest in writing? We only have Bhai Gurdas, Pothi by Bibi Rup Kaur (adopted? daughter of Guru Har Rai) and some others. Is that all written by Sikhs in about 200 years? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 (edited) tsingh is the man with hidden info. He'd probably know of any now obscure works. Besides I don't get your question as a good few janam sakhis seem to have written in this period? Edited June 29, 2011 by dalsingh101 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted June 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Is he still active on forum or any contact info (mail)? How many Janamsakhis are there? 5-6? Makes about 10 books in total, is that enough for a period of about 200 years? Besides Bala Janamsakhi was written in 1690s. So only Vilayat, Meharvan, Puratan and some others are left. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 (edited) Is he still active on forum or any contact info (mail)? How many Janamsakhis are there? 5-6? Makes about 10 books in total, is that enough for a period of about 200 years? Besides Bala Janamsakhi was written in 1690s. So only Vilayat, Meharvan, Puratan and some others are left. I understand your point. That being said Bhai Gurdas's work is pretty voluminous. tsingh has started (recently) making brief visits to the forum. I think for a lot of people bani itself coupled with orally transmitted stories were enough? Hence the paucity of literature in that period? Edited June 29, 2011 by dalsingh101 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Maybe there was'nt a need? The masands and the Gurus were there to impart teachings so what would be the need for litterature? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted June 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Does TSingh have a mail adress where he can be contacted on? Yes indeed, Bhai Gurdaas work is quite large. Well there were Janamasakhis and even Sakhi pothi by Bibi Rup Kaur, so we can't say there was 'no need'. You are right about Guru and Masands being there, but was there no interest at all for history etc and need to write accounts or so? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 (edited) Does TSingh have a mail adress where he can be contacted on? Yes indeed, Bhai Gurdaas work is quite large. Well there were Janamasakhis and even Sakhi pothi by Bibi Rup Kaur, so we can't say there was 'no need'. You are right about Guru and Masands being there, but was there no interest at all for history etc and need to write accounts or so? Try sending him a message on the forum? http://www.sikhawareness.com//index.php?showuser=269 Edited June 29, 2011 by dalsingh101 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbreakable Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 maybe Sikhs in those days were just bothered about establishing a connection with vaheguru, rather than becoming gianis? everything you need is in gurbani, isn't that enough? no offense, just questions 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted July 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Yes, most probably. But weren't there any teekas, more Janamsakhis (of other Gurus) etc? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Sikhi is and has largely been a oral tradition. If you read books from Damdami taksal they lay great stress on seena baseena traditions, this is how knowledge was imparted. It could be interesting though to take the earliest litterature we have from damdami taksal and compare it to what they teach today to see if the teachings are consistent or if there has been any changes.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 What are the earliest works we have from the taksal? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted July 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Sudharm Marg Granth from 1810s ? It was written by a certain Nirmala Bhup Singh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Is it taksali then? What does it say? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted July 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Well Baba Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwaleys Katha has some elements from this Granth. (Kakkaars being given by Hindu deities etc). Taksalis learn from Nirmalas, they are quite close. Granth is written by a Nirmala. Haven't read it, it probably has history? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 That kakaars are given by hindu devtas can also be found in Daya Singh rehitnama I think which is 18th century. I think its more of a symbolic story suggesting that the devtas supported maharaj (ie. hindus should join his cause) and not in the negative way we read it today ie. Guru needed their help.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted July 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Daya Singh Rehatnama is probably tampered or unauthentic, while Sudharm Marg is written by Nirmala Bhup Singh in 1810s You may be right, different interpretations exist. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbreakable Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Daya Singh Rehatnama is probably tampered or unauthentic, while Sudharm Marg is written by Nirmala Bhup Singh in 1810s You may be right, different interpretations exist. Why do you say that? Why do you say it is tampered with? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbreakable Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Sikhi is and has largely been a oral tradition. If you read books from Damdami taksal they lay great stress on seena baseena traditions, this is how knowledge was imparted. It could be interesting though to take the earliest litterature we have from damdami taksal and compare it to what they teach today to see if the teachings are consistent or if there has been any changes.. What is orally given? Can you be specific? Wouldn't you say having something written is better than having a oral tradition, as oral traditions can easy be perverted, unlike written, which require more work. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbreakable Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 That kakaars are given by hindu devtas can also be found in Daya Singh rehitnama I think which is 18th century. I think its more of a symbolic story suggesting that the devtas supported maharaj (ie. hindus should join his cause) and not in the negative way we read it today ie. Guru needed their help.. I think my question to the writer would be, why would you write it like that? To get the hindus on your side? Are there any works written by "sikhs"** that make symbolic references to any Islamic literature/characters, angels, etc, etc 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted July 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Most Rehatnamas are tampered or unauthentic, I think I read that in Pyara Singh Padams book 'Rehatnamey' 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SURYADEV Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 I think the word 'tampered' is too strong. I do believe that RN's do change according to circumstances and timeline, hencce the reason there are so many types out there. No doubt the SGPC version will be modified in due course as different events/paradigms change things in the panth. Things that we think are acceptable now may be deemed unacceptable in the future. Maybe some 'Sardar kattar singh karkhoowala' will get voted into the Committee and decide that the current RN is to soft and lax, so he'll decide to amend it to what he thinks it should be. Does that mean that the original version was wrong/incomplete/substandard? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted July 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Well I didn't mean it in that way. There are clearly some rehats where the scribes have omitted words/lines when copying the 'originals'. Lines have also been added. The same Rehat which has 20 lines in one manuscript might have 50 in another one. That is what I meant by tampered. Some things are unacceptable - Rehatnama Desa Singh says it is okay to drink alcohol/opium, that is just not right. I think some Sikh should write a Granth on lines of Prem Sumarag. He should take out all good things out of Puratan Granths and compile a full Rehatnama. (not that the current SGPC one is incomplete or so) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amar_jkp Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 I think the word 'tampered' is too strong. I do believe that RN's do change according to circumstances and timeline, hencce the reason there are so many types out there. No doubt the SGPC version will be modified in due course as different events/paradigms change things in the panth. Things that we think are acceptable now may be deemed unacceptable in the future. Maybe some 'Sardar kattar singh karkhoowala' will get voted into the Committee and decide that the current RN is to soft and lax, so he'll decide to amend it to what he thinks it should be. Does that mean that the original version was wrong/incomplete/substandard? I would love to see a new Khalasthani Granth. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 I would love to see a new Khalasthani Granth. I would prefer to see khalsa yudh maryada granth before seeing khalistani granth. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhKhoj Posted July 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 (edited) Some Khalsa Yudh Maryada Granth must have existed, no? Maybe some parts in Suraj Parkash mention anything related to it? Edited July 22, 2011 by SikhKhoj 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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