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Sikh Community In Lahore Prevented From Celebrating Festival


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http://www.samachar.com/Sikh-community-in-Lahore-prevented-from-celebrating-festival-lhrqJHjcbhc.html

Sikh community in Lahore prevented from celebrating festival

Agencies

Posted: Jul 17, 2011 at 1558 hrs IST

Islamabad The Sikh community in the eastern city of Lahore has been barred from organising a religious celebration at a disputed gurdwara after a religious group persuaded authorities that celebrating the Muslim holy day of 'Shab-e-Barat' is more important than the Sikh festival.

The musical equipment of the Sikhs was thrown out and their entry to the gurdwara barred due to the efforts of the Dawat-e-Islami, a Barelvi proselytising group, The Express Tribune newspaper reported today.

Police were deployed outside the gurdwara to prevent Sikhs from conducting a religious ceremony until after the end of Shab-e-Barat, which falls tomorrow.

The Sikh community wanted to commemorate an eighteenth-century saint at the gurdwara on Friday.

Gurdwara Shaheed Bhai Taru Singh at Naulakha Bazaar in Lahore was built to honour the memory of a Sikh saint who was executed in 1745 on the orders of the Mughal governor of Punjab, Zakaria Khan.

Every July, Sikhs have held religious ceremonies to commemorate his sacrifice.

Though the gudwara was taken over by the Evacuee Trust Property Board after Partition, Sikhs were allowed to continue using it with relatively few restrictions.

Four years ago, the Dawat-e-Islami claimed the gurdwara was located on the site of the grave of a 15th century Muslim saint, Pir Shah Kaku.

The group claimed Kaku was the grandson of Baba Fariduddin Ganjshakar, an "implausible claim" since Ganjshakar died in 1280 while it claims that Kaku died almost 200 years later, in 1477, the daily reported.

The Sikh community had approached ETPB, which allowed both communities to observe their religious rituals according to their own beliefs at the gurdwara.

The Dawat-e-Islami used it every Thursday for prayer services while Sikhs used it once a year for the anniversary of Taru Singh's martyrdom.

This year, when Sikh men went in to set up their musical instruments on July 13, they were thrown out by men from Dawat-e-Islami and prevented from re-entering the shrine.

Members of the Sikh community, many of whom fear to be identified, said the leader of the group of men, Sohail Butt, claimed that the gurdwara was now a mosque and Sikhs would not be allowed to bring in their musical instruments any longer.

Butt admitted he had prevented Sikhs from performing their ritual, claiming that the gurdwara was inside the courtyard of the mosque.

"Shab-e-Barat is more important than the Sikh ritual," Butt said, adding the ETPB had accepted his group's stance.

Officials from ETPB admit that they have asked the Sikh community to postpone their celebrations until after Shab-e-Barat.

ETPB Deputy Administrator Faraz Abbas, who deals with Sikh affairs across Pakistan, admitted that Sikhs had been denied entry into the gurdwara.

Gurunanak Mission president Sardar Bishon Singh said the ETPB's decision to bar Sikhs from entering their shrine was against the constitution.

He said that he approached the ETPB but was told to wait until after Shab-e-Barat.

"How can we postpone the rituals of our faith," he asked, adding that the government was not paying attention to their cause.

Singh appealed to Supreme Court Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry to take suo moto action over the violation of rights of minorities in Pakistan.

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Here we(Sikhs) are building and repairing mosques for the Muslims in east Punjab like a bunch of idiots that we are, and this is how Muslims repay Sikhs in Pakistan. We need to act more like our grand fathers in 1947. If they deny us from attending our Gurdwara, we should repay them in kind and prevent them from entering their mosques. If they are trying to take over our Gurdwaras, we should take over their mosques in East Punjab. If they will hold functions and pray(namaz) in our Gurdwaras, then we should also hold functions and do kirtan at their mosques in our side of Punjab. I sure hope this is an eye opener for Sikhs who are idiotically building mosques for Muslims in east Punjab.

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At present we are secular liberal puppies.At best we will publish some articles or will beg to Pakistan,UNO Human right organisations and will cry

See the thing is, if we cannot take action by doing the same thing to their Mosques in east Punjab and giving them a taste of their own medicine, then the least we can do is not to build more mosques in our side of Punjab and showing what idiots we are.

Another interesting point in the article is, they mention that the Muslims who are doing this are Barelvi Muslims. Barelvis beleive in Sufism and are suppose to be the "tolerant Muslims". Here our liberal minded Sikhs are always blaming everything to the Wahabis. Well this shows that there is no tolerant form of Islam. Seeing our history with Islam from the past to the present it is even more depressing how apne(like sarbatdapala) feel so impressed by Islam. They always say "no it is the Wahabis who do the bad things, sufism is good and tolerant". Well this recent attack is by Sufi Muslims.

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The pakis have no reason to respect Sikhs. 150 years ago there were six times as many of them as us but they were shit scarred of how violent we were - it took the British to help them rise up against us. Nowadays why should a Paki respect Sikhs? Pakis want to paint Pakistan as some grand country that has always existed (even though it has much less right to exist than say Israel) and they are determined to wipe out any sign of what Punjab was really like. The truth is that Sikhs are back to square one in terms of self dependence. Shame the so called Kharkoos in pakiland dont go and clear out the Gurudwara. Oh wait, they might end up losing their ISI pay cheques. It's events like this that expose what situation Sikhs find themselves in around the world.

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Sikhs in Pakistan are scattered, few here and there. They have no fighting spirit either - maybe due to living as a tiny minority in an Islamic nation? If all Sikhs started to live in a few districts, some problems will be solved. Bigger numbers mean more representation. Do you know that there are only 100 Sikhs in Lahore? I know even big numbers don't help as 2 million Christians and Hindus can't do anything, but atleast they have their areas.

Besides we should shake off the liberal mindset, be more conservative. Don't raise your children with the crap that everyones path leads to God - no, it doesn't. If Guru Ji built a Maseet, Guru Ji also sent Banda Singh to raze Sirhind to the ground.

I have got crazy ideas for Sikhi but conservatives might just not agree.

Edited by SikhKhoj
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Besides we should shake off the liberal mindset, be more conservative. Don't raise your children with the crap that everyones path leads to God - no, it doesn't. If Guru Ji built a Maseet, Guru Ji also sent Banda Singh to raze Sirhind to the ground.

I have got crazy ideas for Sikhi but conservatives might just not agree.

Please share....this is probs the only platform where you will be encouraged to.

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Sikhs in Pakistan are scattered, few here and there. They have no fighting spirit either - maybe due to living as a tiny minority in an Islamic nation? If all Sikhs started to live in a few districts, some problems will be solved. Bigger numbers mean more representation. Do you know that there are only 100 Sikhs in Lahore? I know even big numbers don't help as 2 million Christians and Hindus can't do anything, but atleast they have their areas.

It's not about numbers but quality and how far people are willing to go. In the west we Sikhs should be campaigning for the US and Uk to end aid and hold the pakis to account. As well as screaming about this from the rooftops. If the Israelis had done this so many people here would be like 'the Palestinians should bomb them' etc. There is so much that could be done in retaliation but so many so called Khalistanis, pakilovers and the older generation would get in the way.

Besides we should shake off the liberal mindset, be more conservative. Don't raise your children with the crap that everyones path leads to God - no, it doesn't. If Guru Ji built a Maseet, Guru Ji also sent Banda Singh to raze Sirhind to the ground.

We all live in the Anglosphere. Arguments about liberalism and conservatism are pointless as they dont matter. What matters are Sikh values. Look at homosexuality - we're told by indian sikhs that it is illegal and that if we disagree that its our liberal thought against Sikhi. But who passed the homo laws in India? Yeah the Brits. Are there laws in Maharaja Ranjit's time? We dont know.

The truth is that Sikhs should be more nationalistic, sovereign and independant so that we dont develop these symbiotic tendencies. Not conservative or liberal.

I have got crazy ideas for Sikhi but conservatives might just not agree.

I'll get the plutonium!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But seriously be careful what you say on public forums. You dont want to do a 'KhalistaniGunMan' like on SikhSangat.

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Surya, I might not do that. I shared one of my ideas with 'amardeep' and he called me a dirty cunning Singh Sabhia lol (jokingly)

HSD2,

Indeed quality over quantity, but do you think 100 Sikhs in one city of millions can do much? Muslims make ghettos in Europe, but what have Sikhs done? They basically got small Islamic states within Europe. We could count the Sikh ghettos of Europe on one hand and even traditional Sikh areas such as Southall are becoming islamicised.

Canadian Sikhs, like the English Sikhs make about 1.25%, but are more politically more active. It is good that they got a few MPs, but why where like 3 Sikhs contesting from same area last time?

We should have more representation in countries like Canada. Canada has a small overall population, so it is easy to increase our % there. But Muslims are starting to grow larger than Sikhs even in Canada.

I don't care about the spheres, thing is a Muslim will be katar, he may live in any sphere. We make our children grow up with mentality like, all religions are fine/all paths lead to god/Mian Mir laid foundation of Harmandar Sahib/bla bla. Why don't we say how Sikhs punished the Musleh, razed Sirhind to the ground? How people like Jabar Khan were killed by Sikhs? How Gurbani says Hindu Anna Turku Kaana?

What did that guy say? I know he is kind of overenthousiastic lol

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Sikh immigration into west punjab wouldnt achieve much as the musis control the army/police/govt etc. It would become as bad as living in east punjab.

As for musis in the rest of the world, lets face it, its all gearing up to balkanisation. Only Sikhs who love musis or who want to relive the glory days of the british empire seem keen for this to happen. What you forget is that Sikhs have no reason to be proud of Sirhind or the other things as we arent Sikhs in national terms. There are canadian sikhs, british sikhs, hindustani sikhs etc who all see there history as being that of their adopted country. The Sikh nation ceased to exist a long time ago. No wonder so many sikhs love others, they need something to latch on to.

KGM basically said he wants to go to pakiland to get military training and fight india. He then went on to brag that loads(!) of sikhs have done it and that Khalistan is only a matter of time as a result.

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I am talking of Pakistani Sikhs concentrating at one place? There are more than 30,000 Sikhs, if they lived all in a few districts things would be easier, no? If not Punjab then Northern Sindh but people in areas like Nankana Sahib are very friendly and Sikhs in that district will usually not have problems (barring some incidents, but these happen everywhere so not a big thing).

(actually the above is happening, people from Tribal areas are moving southwards to Peshawar, Panja Sahib and Nankana Sahib. Many of you don't know but Sikhs have to pay jaziya per Sikh person in Tribal areas).

Well I see Sikhs as a Nation. Many people do. Sikh Nation exists and will exist forever.

KGM is foolish to say such a thing, especially on a monitored forum like SS.

Edited by SikhKhoj
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'41st Vaar' is even better

Brave and stalwart Singhs awoke and obliterated all the enemies.

Muslim faith evaporated and Hindu's remained in scarcity.

Neither there was any body to recite the Muslim Verses nor there was talk of Allah, the Muslim God.

Neither any one called for Nimaz, the Muslim prayer, nor they said Darrod, the benedictions. Fatima was remembered not and none revelled in circumcision.

This path of Shariyat (Muslim Divine Law) erased, Muslims were perplexed.

By applauding all and sundry, the Guru exhibited the operation of Truth,

And then he stimulated brave warrior Singhs in hundreds of thousands.

They picked all the cruel Turks in the world, and plundered and liquidated them.

Thus there prevailed the universal serenity and disregard for the tribulations.

Then circulated (Guru) Gobind's order to reflect upon the Timeless One.

The sovereignty of the Fearless predominated and justice was determined by the Truth.

Thus incarnating in the Kal-age, he unfolded Satjug, the Golden Age of Truth.

Abolishing all the Turks and barbarians, he inspired fidelity.

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It does'nt make any sense to cause communal tensions in Indian Panjab just because Sikhs are mistreated in Pakistani Punjab. Something should be done to help our Sikh brethren in Pakistan but to harass innocent muslims in India is not the solution.

In the words of Maharaj "I wish to take you higher [than to follow the practices of the Muslims]"

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See the thing is, if we cannot take action by doing the same thing to their Mosques in east Punjab and giving them a taste of their own medicine,

this would lead to a tit for tat action by muslims in other countries and we would really get it then. Especially in afghanistan and such.

The Sikhs live in fear in Pakistan, and if not total fear, at least with the fear that they will never be beleived over muslims. They realise their ineffectiveness. How to go about reassuring them i dont know but it doesnt look good.

If you go back to the topic i started about jhatka conference in 1944, then it will give you a clue of how Sikhs used to live without fear, even as a minority.

Edited by chatanga1
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How do we as a Kaum AND as individuals get that state of mind, that we had back in the past. The attitude and belief-set of Jhabbar and the old Sikhs of the past.

Specifically, as individuals. Looking to change the mindset of the kaum is a long-game. But if I can change and can effect the change in my kids then that is a good start.

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It does'nt make any sense to cause communal tensions in Indian Panjab just because Sikhs are mistreated in Pakistani Punjab. Something should be done to help our Sikh brethren in Pakistan but to harass innocent muslims in India is not the solution.

In the words of Maharaj "I wish to take you higher [than to follow the practices of the Muslims]"

That's fine and all. But reality is, that is the only way Muslims will understand. When Sirdar Baghel Singh conquered Delhi, he built numerous historical Gurdwaras in around Delhi. When he wanted to build Gurdwara Sis Ganj Sahib, he had to demolish a Mosque which was built on that very same spot where our Guru was Shaheed. At first the Muslims were getting angry at the idea of the Mosque being demolished to make way for a Gurdwara, but when Sirdar Baghel Singh took out his sword just half way out of it's sheath, the Muslims were humbled and became quiet at the very thought of what Sikhs might do if Sikhs become infuriated.

During that same period(misl period), there was a Gurdwara in Sirhind which was taken over by Muslims and converted into a Mosque. This was too much for the Sikhs to tolerate. Sikhs gathered together and attacked the mosque where they also executed the Maulvi and others who were responsible for converting the Gurdwara into a Mosque.

As HSD mentioned, Muslims were scared of Sikhs because of the level of violence Sikhs were capable of. But after the British had taken over Sikhs began losing this retaliatory instinct. Which is why Muslims very confidently directed violence towards Sikhs in early 1946. They did not think Sikhs were going to retaliate, but they were wrong and Sikhs did retaliate and ended up killing 4 times more Muslims then Sikhs were killed during partition.

Sikhs by nature are not instigators of violence. Sikhs only use violence in retaliation. If Muslims have forgotten what happened to them in 1947, and are up to their old games again, Sikhs should take notice of this.

Edited by Mithar
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Yeah so take action against the barelwis in Pakistan.. There is no point in harrasing muslims in India..

If the Sikhs of 1947 had this type of PC mentality and not have retaliated against Muslims and kicking them out of east Punjab then it is very likely that today east Punjab would have been a second Kashmir type situation.

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The simplest thing to do would be to reclaim the Gurudwara (as it belongs to Sikhs anyway), kill any troublesome sulleh inside, cut off their heads and stick them on poles outside the Gurudwara, take some pig's heads and sow them onto the bodies and then hand them over to the locals. Blame it on Jamdhoots or Divine Intervention/Hukam or something.

Edited by HSD 2
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If the Sikhs of 1947 had this type of PC mentality

So you support the massive abuse, torture and killing of Sikhs in the 80s and 90s by local hindus because they were simply 'teaching the Sikhs a lesson never to rebel or kill their prime minister again' ??????

you can NEVER justify killing civilians...

Edited by amardeep
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We are already getting it in some countries guys. Sikhs in FATA have to pay 1100 rupees Jizya per month. Leaving that aside, Pakistan has only 20,000 Sikhs - so don't expect them to take upon the 160 million Muslims. Only in our dreams or minds will these Pakistani Sikhs take upon Muslay like before.

1. We should learn from other communities, recent autonomy that was granted to Gorkhas. Why not to Sikhs in some Pakistani town/area aswel? In many towns such as Nankana Sahib, the lands belong to the Gurdwaras. But autonomy can only be given if there are many Sikhs residing there. But even in Nankana Sahibs Sikhs are quite a minority, so the majority Muslims will get irked if Sikhs get autonomy (which they won't get in first place). Autonomy would mean rights to prayer, practise any religion without fear of intimidation etc.

2. There are many places in Punjab and Sindh that are sparsely inhabited, why not establish small towns with Sikhs? Later they could ask for more autonomy.

How could this be done? Many of the Pakistani Sikhs are poor, there are also converted Sikhs from poor Hindu backgrounds, so they could easily go and live in an area if a Sikh organisation wished to help them.

3. There are thousands of Pakistani (Sindhi) Hindus who are Nanakpanthis. They mostly believe in Guru Nanak and Guru Granth Sahib, but some also believe in Hindu Devi Devtey. A few Sikh preachers could easily bring them either into Sehajdhari, Keshdhari or Amritdhari Sikh form.

What say guys? This, like my other ideas/plans may seem far fetched but it is not impossible to implement, we just need the right guys who have guts to work for Panth instead of running behind Maya.

Suryadev, Gurbani says: 'Babaniaa kahaneaa put saput karen'. Tell your children stories of brave Sikh heroes like Bhai Taru Singh, Bhai Mani Singh, Baba Deep Singh, Banda Singh Bahadur, Hari Singh Nalwa etc since they are young. Instill into their minds that we have to respect others, but only our Path is right. Make them take up sports, most preferably martial arts (krav maga, jiu jitsu etc) or any form of boxing. That would not be a bad start.

Note: Muslims can take over any country. They migrate in huge numbers and have many children. In this way Jordan, which had 20% Christians, now has under 8% Christians. Same way in India, Muslims are highly increasing - Hindus are decreasing slowly due to low birth rate and conversions to Islam/Christianity. Indian Hindus are set to be under 80% for the first time in history this time.

How are we concerned by this? Punjab has a high emigration rate. Remaining population is not aware of Sikhi, youth is on drugs and majority of people want to emigrate if given the oppertunity. Bhaiyyas (from Haryana and Central-West India) already make a large 10% of the population. Earlier Punjabis let them in thinking they are Hindus, but little did they know that there are quite a few Muslims Bhaiyyas aswel (Uttar Pradesh etc has many Muslims). Second immigrant group, the Gujjars, started coming in huge numbers from neighbouring states. These are mostly Muslims. For the first time did I see Muslims in my area. Now they have openly started keeping beards and kids wearing those caps.

It was in this trend that mosques that were empty, started to get filled. Mosques that were in bad conditions were repaired (with help of moorakh liberal Sikhs) and came to be used. Mosque in Ludhiana which had few guys has over 70,000 Muslims on fridays.

When will we wake up?

Those are excellent suggestions Sikhkhoj. Although Sikhs are only about 20,000 in number, but there is a large potential for increase. Pakistan has a large number of Hindus and Christians who can be receptive to the Sikh religion, especially Hindus. With increased numbers due to conversion, Sikhs should form their own towns, villages because strength lies in unity and greater numbers. From what I have seen personally, most Pakistani Muslims are not bad. It's just the religious ones that are not good and are turning that country into a shyt hole.

Sikhkojh, you made another noteworthy point about recent Muslim increases in east Punjab. Many of the Bhayaas are infact Muslims. Even Muslims Gujjars have been increasing in number and the Gujjars are the really religious ones with the long beards. Two years ago I went to a village near Ludhiana and was surprised to see these men who looked like Pathans from Afghanistan. Then someone told me that these are Gujjars from Kashmir who have settled here and have taken over the dairy business in the village, they are also reported to be armed. They even repaired the old mosque that was in ruins(thanks in part to local Sikh funding). Today their attitude has become so assertive and defiant that Sikhs in the village have begun to dislike them.

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