The Wealth Of Indian Rural People

[SURYADEV]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-17544662

$300,000 income per annum from oranges! This guys a billionaire in India!

Now I know why Zulu wants to go to India......to make his millions.

[dalsingh101]

Yet again, conflicting information?!?!

If our die hard peasantry are anything to go by, the farmers lot is a load of depressing shite right now. But then you read stuff like this and hear about the farmers who are making a packet out there?

What's the score?

Edited March 30, 2012 by dalsingh101

[SURYADEV]

Well from my experience, I've got family who own masses of farmland and also rent some too. And they have made and are making quite a bit of money. Having said that being pendu Jatts, they are just saving it all to send their kids to the west!

I think there is a rich-poor divide in Pb and India and its just a MASSIVE gap in between

[G.Kaur]

Well from my experience, I've got family who own masses of farmland and also rent some too. And they have made and are making quite a bit of money. Having said that being pendu Jatts, they are just saving it all to send their kids to the west!

I think there is a rich-poor divide in Pb and India and its just a MASSIVE gap in between

Haww are you jatt?

[SURYADEV]

I used to be a jattboot but now I'm a Surya-bansi.

I know its its suprising, coz I dont swear , talk crap, vote SAD (badal) or do any of the common jatt stuff.

lol

Edited April 2, 2012 by SURYADEV

[G.Kaur]

Lol I never mentioned anything about what jatts do and what they don't do

[kdsingh80]

Its a fact that many farmers are benefitting from booming economy as prices of many eatables like milk,fruits,eggs,meat etc has gone up drastically in last few years.Also sky rocketed land prices in last 20 years have made farmers millionare in Haryana,Punjab, west UP etc

[SURYADEV]

Its a fact that many farmers are benefitting from booming economy as prices of many eatables like milk,fruits,eggs,meat etc has gone up drastically in last few years.Also sky rocketed land prices in last 20 years have made farmers millionare in Haryana,Punjab, west UP etc

There was a news item on Day & Night News last week about a group of farmers in Pb who were demonstarting about the low wholesale price of milk and that they cant make a living selling it on. The guys were even pouring gallons of milk onto the streets!

Now are they just being greedy or is there someone else in the supply chain who makes the real big money?

[kdsingh80]

There was a news item on Day & Night News last week about a group of farmers in Pb who were demonstarting about the low wholesale price of milk and that they cant make a living selling it on. The guys were even pouring gallons of milk onto the streets!

Now are they just being greedy or is there someone else in the supply chain who makes the real big money?

Farmers are not greedy.Many times they feel that they are not paid adequately so these type of protests do occur.Also cases of farmers just differ area wise.Its not like all farmers are making lot of money or all farmers are loosing money

[dalsingh101]

Panjabi peasants seem to be permanently disgruntled ......

I've got family who do farming back home, they are making a packet. They don't seem to be constantly moaning like certain people do.

But then maybe that is because they haven't engaged in that alcoholic loving, flash acting, spending like dickheads to impress others on daughters marriages culture like certain other people, who will remain anonymous...<clue - they like to go bwaah bwaah a lot and seem to be allergic to formal education and like wearing brightly coloured skirts - the men that is.......>

[chatanga1]

I used to be a jattboot but now I'm a Surya-bansi.

how can you change your varna?

People who make the most off lands, are those with a lot of land, as all the farmers make an allowance for crops being ruin, for a small farmer, becasue he has already invested in getting that crop growing, if the weather ruins it all, then he's got nothing but a loan to pay with no money to pay it.

Ive seen it with my own eyes, in our village. The bigger land-owners dont have this problem as they have more land, to spread the cost of any loss they incur.

Farming is tough in india, but some of the small-holders are at fault in trying to keep up with their neighbours, who have more land. Greed has become a problem, as more and more farmers are trying to squeeze that extra rupee out of the land.

IN UK, crop rotation is practiced to give the land a chance to recover, but to suggest this in panjab?

One of the more riskier things smallholders have done is invest in tractors and other farm machinery, when they dont really need them.

Edited April 7, 2012 by chatanga1

[dalsingh101]

how can you change your varna?

Why you buying into that old bull brother? Varna is just a man made thing. It's not some sort of innate characteristic.

One of the more riskier things smallholders have done is invest in tractors and other farm machinery, when they dont really need them.

I remember a female Jatti friend telling me how her cha cha kept buying tractors (from the money sent by her father in the UK) so he had like a range of them when he only needed one for the amount of land he had.

The ultimate issue is the one of trying to 'keep up with the Johals' in a really immature way. And feeling diminished because you can't give it as large as the next Jat.

My mom used to say some Jats go mad and kill themselves when another more wealthy Jat turns arounds and tells his poorer peasant brother:

"You can't be a Jat you must be a Choorah [or Chamar]!" <snigger snigger snigger>

Humility seems to be a seriously undervalued trait in Jat society?

The big question is "What are more level headed, conscious Jats doing about these deeply ingrained, negative features of their society and culture?"

[dalsingh101]

PS - I know hordes of Jats have got loads of dosh, that's why they can send they semi literate sons abroad through paying big bribes etc.

[tonyhp32]

The BBC report seems more likely an attempt to convince Indians how 'prosperous' they are and how therefore they should be buying more western goods and services. Also it is aimed at solidifying the myth that both India and China due to their strong economic growth will be able to pull the global economy out of recession. They use this myth to help maintain the confidence of the investors in the western stock markets. If only the sap investors in the west knew what a bubble both India and China are.

The BBC report conceals more that it reveals. It claims that Bullar's orange orchards 'fetch him $300,000 a year'. An economist would ask the question, is that $ 300K profit or income? If it's income then whether he is making a good living or not would depend on what his expenditure has been on growing his crop. If he expends $299K then his oranges don't make him shyte! Everyone knows that inflation in India is going sky high. The cost of farm inputs have also going up and farming in the traditional sense is dying out in Punjab. It is interesting that his claim to have made his wife's life easier consist of giving her a microwave and a washing machine! I've seen microwaves in even modest homes in rural Punjab!

The majority of farmers in Punjab are small scale farmers who in the green revolution days and after were able to make a good living farming the land. As land holdings became more fragmented over the years then these farmers were able to take land on mamla or theka from the absentee landholders who were migrating to the West from the 70s onwards. But now that land prices have gone up so much, the absentee landowners from the West are either selling their land or demanding more and more money from mamla. Recently I was in Punjab and the mamla rates in our area were astronomical. A kila now goes for around Rs 35,000 per year. The rate used to be about a tenth of that about a decade and half ago. The greed of the absentee landowners is galling. On the one hand they go around how the Sikhs in the West should be helping Sikhs in Punjab yet at the same time they demand top rates for the land for mamla. In our family we give our land on mamla to members from our patti in the village at a reduced rate so at least the farmer can make some profit. Our land is given out at Rs 25,000 a kila. Unfortunately the worst offenders for demanding top rates for mamla are those idiots that have migrated recently out of Punjab. They still work like bhaiyas picking berries in fields in Canada and the USA and yet when they are back in Punjab they show off how much money they have made abroad!!

The small farmer is pretty much shafted in Punjab. The labour rates demanded by chamars and bhaiyas is around Rs 250 per day and on top of that they have to be fed countless rotis and given nasha as well. The chamars who used to work for a share of the produce don't do that any more and even after taking a wage for their work their womenfolk will steal vegetables from the farmer's fields.

Some in our patti have already decided to give up farming for good. Rather than pay Rs 35,000 per acre they decide to just keep one kila of theirs to grow patthay for the majhan and give any others out on mamla. At least these farmers won't need to break their backs feeding the greedy mouths of absentee landowners. They will use their tractors and trolleys for day rate transport work.

Edited April 13, 2012 by tonyhp32

[dalsingh101]

Thanks for that insight Tony.

Personally, it just seems obvious that we need to move away from the 'traditional family occupation' thing that goes on in Punjab to a more dynamic/flexible and modern approach. Farming just isn't sustainable in the way Panjabi farmers want it to be. Landholdings generally shrink generation by generation causing the perennial problem which has Jat boys migrating. Add to that the general indifference to education/training and you get the ridiculous situation we see today - guys from well off families sending relatively pampered kids to the west who have no skill set of any value other than donkey work.

Also, a thing you did not touch on are the cultural factors which often have Panjabi farmers living beyond their means in a very imprudent fashion. Hell I see brothers wearing genuine Levis stuff out their, when people over here go Primarks etc. lol

[SURYADEV]

You mention shrinking land holdings, but I would have thought its working the other way as well. A few already rich 'astute' landowners accumulating more and more land. And then giving it out on halaa or ttheka.

i dont know about India being in a bubble, but Pb generally does seem to be heading that way. Simply becasue there is nothing to back up this massive growth rate or inflation. If anything I perceive the southern more educated states as being able to hold off the bubble effect.

How to cure Pb of its myopic short-sightedness?

[tonyhp32]

Thanks for that insight Tony.

Personally, it just seems obvious that we need to move away from the 'traditional family occupation' thing that goes on in Punjab to a more dynamic/flexible and modern approach. Farming just isn't sustainable in the way Panjabi farmers want it to be. Landholdings generally shrink generation by generation causing the perennial problem which has Jat boys migrating. Add to that the general indifference to education/training and you get the ridiculous situation we see today - guys from well off families sending relatively pampered kids to the west who have no skill set of any value other than donkey work.

Also, a thing you did not touch on are the cultural factors which often have Panjabi farmers living beyond their means in a very imprudent fashion. Hell I see brothers wearing genuine Levis stuff out their, when people over here go Primarks etc. lol

The problem is that even though the sons and daughters of non-dalit Sikhs might study hard and get good degrees, there is no hope of getting a government job which is really to only way that a family can get a decent income and survive. The dalits having reservation are able to get the jobs in the police, schools and the govt departments. You can understand in some sense why there is no incentive for these kids to study hard when they know that there is virtual no value to what grades they get as the dalits will get the jobs. This has led to the double whammy whereby the non-dalit students don't bother as they have no hope of getting a job and the dalit students don't need to bother getting good grades as they will automatically get the jobs! So we can now understand why every sector of Punjab is on a downtrend. Reservation has led to useless candidates getting jobs as teachers, revenue officials and policemen. The education system in Punjab is pretty much derided as the worst in the country, we can understand why when the teachers who have been employed by the government through reservation are failures and probable drop outs themselves.

We can sit in the west and criticise the people who try every means to get out of Punjab and move to the west but this is probably their only way out of the spiral which will lead them into poverty. The only asset that these farmers have is their land and due to the land price they can sell an acre or two and either pay agents to get their son out of the country or pay a dowry and get their daughter married off in the west all in the hope that afterwards the whole family will follow them out.

[kdsingh80]

The problem is that even though the sons and daughters of non-dalit Sikhs might study hard and get good degrees, there is no hope of getting a government job which is really to only way that a family can get a decent income and survive

Government jobs in any economy is like peanuts.There is no way one can say that the majority of people can benefiit from from them because only a tiny minority is employed by govt.

You can understand in some sense why there is no incentive for these kids to study hard when they know that there is virtual no value to what grades they get as the dalits will get the jobs

India has booming private sector,there is still good demand for educated professionals.Delhi and NCR regions are not too far away from Punjab.Also reservations are in all indian states ,the unreserved category suffer everywhere .You can easily find urban middle class Sikhs working everywhere in private sector

Reservation has led to useless candidates getting jobs as teachers, revenue officials and policemen. The education system in Punjab is pretty much derided as the worst in the country, we can understand why when the teachers who have been employed by the government through reservation are failures and probable drop outs themselves.

Govt school education sucks in almost all India.People should employ private tutors for their children.If they can spend millions on agents to send their children move out of India why can't they spend money on good education.I think the problem is mainly of lack of education culture not only in Punjab , but also in entire North India .