Why not refute sites and claims instead of slandering?

[The truth]

Moderators

alot of what NarSingha says causes 'trouble' however (correctly so) you guys allow it on for constructve debate

but how come it is ok then for NarSingha to say stuff like

"As I said, ur question will be answered on the website, sow ait for it.

If you think this is unfair...sue me"

and also to say

"Please remember, the only reason I am inviting discussion here is because I wish to do so, I may equally choose not to respond completely.

Use this chance wisely"

that's just totally egoism to me

he can't just say what he wants one day

and next day say he doesn't wnat to reply

double standards

and atittues like that will ultimetely ruin the good work this forum as done till now

[Guest]

the truth - i understand 100% what ur saying and yes it is very unfair on other members of the site.. everytime things get a bit hot then narsingha uses the "wait for the site" wildcard..

this is greatly unfair because narsingha himself loves to pressure others for answers to his own queries and demands that the likes of singh123 and other akjers respond to his questions which u would have seen on the ragmaala discussion and akj discussion.... but for over a week now bikramjit singh has been askin for the answer of one simple question which narsingha has been unable to give a tiny reply to.....

fair? i dont think so

ill get back to u on this matter

[Narsingha]

Unfair?

Are we stopping you from seeking the answers for yourselves? Most of the texts we use for the websites are easily available to anyone who has access to a Punjabi Bookstore/website.

Just because you cant get answers on a plate (like you're used to), doesnt mean you blame others for your laziness and accuse me of "homai".

:roll:

"and atittues like that will ultimetely ruin the good work this forum as done till now"

...thats funny.

[SUKHBIR]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,

Unfair?

Yes

Are we stopping you from seeking the answers for yourselves? Most of the texts we use for the websites are easily available to anyone who has access to a Punjabi Bookstore/website.

Clearly, the question pertains to a assertion made on the website that you are representing on this forum, would you disagree that you are a representative of the site(s) in question on this forum?

If you are unable to answer the question then a simple admission would reflect far more favourably than your current tact. If however you refuse to answer the question then this begs the query, what is the point of this 'thread'?

The previous 'thread' degenerated as a direct result of this reluctance or inability to provide a 'straight' answer to a 'straight' question.

Just because you cant get answers on a plate (like youre used to), doesn't mean you blame others for your laziness and accuse me of "homai".

The first half of this sentence is nothing more than a 'swipe' although it could have been regarded as a general comment the direct accusation in brackets defies that description. The further accusation of 'laziness' is no less of a personal attack.

There is no need for accusations, it is indeed our actions which in this case can be summarised as what we type, which will be the sole basis upon which readers will make their decisions as to who is arrogant, open, enlightened, obstructive etc.

"and atittues like that will ultimetely ruin the good work this forum as done till now"

...thats funny.

Giving what I believe to be the site etiquette in relation to this thread I will not respond to the above flippant remark I urge other 'posters' to show restraint.

On a general note I have till now abstained from this 'discussion' because I thought it was ill conceived and given the previous posting behaviour of certain individuals, it could not hope to meet the requirements it had set itself. It would seem this thread is following the exact same course as its predecessor that being obstruction, frustration, diversion, denial.

Indeed the intention of this thread was a noble one but I am afraid that we must be realistic in our estimations of certain individuals, groups, organisations.

Gur Fateh

Sukhbir Singh

[Narsingha]

Would you have me post an article that is meant to be on Sarbloh.info on this thread simply to please Bikramjit? Sorry but the desires of Bikramjit are not important enough for me to give him an exclusive peek. The answer may be simple, but if you do not know the answer, why would you assume the answer is just as simple?

Simple questions rarely result in simple answers. Sanatan Sikhi, unlike mainstream Sikhi isnt a series of "do's" and "dont's"...it caters for the real world.

As I said, there will be an article addressing Bikramjit's question on www.sarbloh.info. If you cannot wait, I, or lalleshvari can give u a reading list so you can research for yourself.

[Guest BikramjitSingh]

Would you have me post an article that is meant to be on Sarbloh.info on this thread simply to please Bikramjit? Sorry but the desires of Bikramjit are not important enough for me to give him an exclusive peek. The answer may be simple, but if you do not know the answer, why would you assume the answer is just as simple?

Simple questions rarely result in simple answers. Sanatan Sikhi, unlike mainstream Sikhi isnt a series of "do's" and "dont's"...it caters for the real world.

As I said, there will be an article addressing Bikramjit's question on www.sarbloh.info. If you cannot wait, I, or lalleshvari can give u a reading list so you can research for yourself.

Narsingha

As I wrote in a previous reply.. I'm not looking for an essay.. just a reason for your referring to Guru Nanak as 'Akali'.. or a reference would do.. which book did you pick this information from ?.

GurFateh

Bikramjit

[Akali Sirtor Singh Khalsa]

admin cut, on the other topic if AKJ doesnt reply they are wrong, and you harrass them. But if you dont reply, and akjers act like gursikhs, you are right, and have the right to not reply? you dont have to quote sources? you cant answer one simple question?

What a shame.

[Guest]

To All,

Feel free to post as many as questions you have in your mind towards these Sanatan sikh websites. It should not stop you if he is not willing to anwser any of your questions. This forum is open to everyone and if you don't get reply to your questions then everyone has the chance to look at them and they will have the same questions in their mind when they will be browsing these sites and it will prevent them from accepting everything blindly.

Questions will educate Sikh youth and they won't believe on sites blindly. I think all gursikhs will help sikhs this way if they keep posting their questions and flaws if they have come across any on these sites.

We're not trying to be hypocrite here but we're following our mission where there is no back door but everything is open to everyone right here on our forum.

Simple rule: If you want to help sikh youth then post as many as questions you have regarding these websites.

Thanks!

[some singh]

On your sites, you claim that after the British occupation of Punjab, the Akali Singhs were hunted out from wherever they could be found and exterminated. This is true enough. However, in other places on the site, it is stated that the Akali Nihungs were in charge of the major gurdvaras and takhts, until the 'british backed singh sabha' movement took control of the gurdvaras. This raises a few questions.

First, if the akali singhs were being hunted out, then how would they be able to maintain control of the gurdvaras? Did the British just forget to look inside the gurdvaras for them? What most of us were taught (and what almost all historians say and what makes most sense) was that the real akalee singhs were mostly killed, sikhee was almost wiped out, and the control of the gurdvaray was taken by hindu oriented mahants, who were backed by the British. The singh sabha movement and gurdvara reform movements were started to take back control from these mahants. Please clarify this.

Secondly, if the singh sabha movement people and the akalee morchas to take control of historic sikh shrines were British backed, then why were so many of these people killed and jailed? And why were those who were in control of the gurdvaras protected by the British? Or are you saying that this piece of history has been completely miscontrued and that it was actually the mahants running the gurdvaray that were attacked by the British?

What's the stance of these websites on events like the Nankana Saahib Sakha?

[Akali Sirtor Singh Khalsa]

QUESTIONS FOR THE UK nihangs.. ANSWER THESE...

to better understand your nihang sanatan sikhi, would UK nihangs please answer the following questions?

1) What happened to your old site? On that site they put pictures of shaheeds such as Bhai Fauja Singh Jee and called them UK nihangs. Then directly under that they put quotes from somewhere saying UK nihangs will be beat and their dharis will be cut.. why would you take that off? afraid it will make you look bad? (by the way I have a copy of your old site saved so you cannot deny it)

2) Is there a doctrine such a Rehitnama (code of conduct) you adhere to? I assume from the comment that the real message of the Gurus is being lost, how do the UK nihangs substantiate that they have the "real message", or indeed that hindu rss things have entered into their "sanatan sikhi"?

3) What is a "Gursikh" according to you UK nihangs??

4) why doesnt your so called "jathedar" even have so much as a proper bunga never mind a farlaa?

5) where did you learn your strange traditions of sanatan sikhi? who taught you how to jhatka goats? who taught you how to make sukha? who taught you santhia?

6) why do you translate bani the exact same was as RSS (fundamental hindus) websites do?

7) Assuming the UK nihangs are persuing the real message of the Gurus, could the UK nihangs please list where they gain their knowledge with regards to Gurmat Sangeet (kirtan), Santhia, and their special form of "jhatka gatka" which to real warriors looks like some weak attempt at mixing judo and gatka and other things together (which they consider to be the martial art of the Sikhs).

What is the UK nihangs stance on Ithihas (historical studies)?

9) Do you UK nihangs possess knowledge of Ayurveda (medicine), Gurmat Sangeet (classical Raags), Ithihas (historical studies), Sports (weight training, swimming, horseriding, etc), use of "tark" and "nijaj" (logic and reasoning), Sanskrit and other languages (essential in understanding Gurbani), knowledge of other religious texts eg, vedas, purans, gita, bible, koran etc (essential for comparative relgious studies).

10) Regarding history of the UK nihangs, could they please explain why they arent part of Budda dal and call themselves 96 crore budda dal.. or just recently, budda dal uk? (did you UK nihangs get kicked out of 96 crore budda dal too now?)

11) Why do you follow santa singh, even after he was excommunicated? your santa singh was shown helping indira gandhi and the armies attack akal takht and darbar sahib. is this bad judgement on your part?

12) what do the UK nihangs consider to be the message of the gurus?

13) On your website it says you take sukha, the panths rehat maryada clearly states: "A Sikh must not take hemp (cannabis), opium, liquor, tobacco, in short, any intoxicant." Does this mean you UK nihangs arent sikhs?

14) do you ever refer to bani or do you just listen to what your so called "masters" say?

15) where did the concept of jhatka arise? who started this? there is no record of jhatka on animals being done ritualisticly

16) according to the panth, shaheeds such as Bhai Fauja Singh are considered great martyrs of the panth, do UK nihangs not accept panthic martyrs? because it seems like you are ridiculing them.. according to the panth Bhai Randhir Singh, Akali Nihung Baba Nihaal Singh Jee (Tarna Dal) etc are great gursikhs of the panth, but you ridicule them, does this mean you are not part of the panth?

17) the UK nihangs claim to be sikhs, then can you explain why you smoke, drink, do crack/heroine?? also akal takht says that you dont have to read raag mala and raag mala hasnt been read at akal takht for 300 years, can you explain why you think its bani?

1 your followers beleive it is ok to sleep with any woman as long as she is not muslim. is this right? do you think its ok to sleep around? some UK nihangs were quoted as saying "its ok its for experience"

19) can you explain how you are part of the panth and follow the panths maryada but differ on such fundamental matters?

20) According to this statement above, it appears the UK nihangs are going direct against the Akal Takht, and even consider them to be wrong. Does this mean the UK nihangs are above the Akal takht because they are more "true" to history? Also, since much of their history comes from their so called masters, and other history seems to be just made up, yet others is from RSS sources, their claim to be true also seems to be a loose one.

21) You say its ok to take sukha, this is in direct violation of akal takht, do the UK nihangs think their stance to be more correct than akal takht, which they claim to follow?

22) What is the origin of your method of jhatka. can the UK nihangs provide evidence to back this up?

23) do the other groups you pretend to be aligned with know that you misquote them?

24) there is a line on your shastervidya site about using animal blood to purify things, there is also significant implication that you drink the blood in sarbloh battas (the same battas that amrit is made in and Guru Gobind Singh held so sacred), what is the scriptual/historical evidence for this conduct? you dont have much evidence for this conduct. you do not even quote from rehatnamas.

25) the same rehatnamas you say allow you to take sukha and eat meat say keski is a kakkar.. is this true? if so why do the UK nihangs pick and choose rehatnamas?

26) why do the UK nihangs say halaal meat is wrong, but jhatka is ok, but still buy chicken from the market (many times where the meat is halaal in uk so they can appeal to muslim shoppers).???

27) you UK nihangs say that sarbloh is not important, yet you do everything in sarbloh, even your manmat, at the same takht sri hazoor sahib where bhang and meat are served NEXT DOOR, there is sarbloh everywhere, explain this?

2 why are tarna dal jathas all over the world so eager to kill the UK nihangs? even though the UK nihangs say Akal Nihung Baba Nihal Singh contributed to the sites, and they say tarna dal is aligned with them, isnt this false? why such blatant lies on the UK nihangs sites?

29) why does budda dals (the real budda dal) website refer to Guru Gobind Singh as "Guru Gobind Singh Jee" but the UK nihangs refer to to him as "Akali Nihung Guru Gobind Singh" and the budda dal says "Guru Granth Sahib Jee" but UK nihangs say "Aadi Guru Darbar"

30) the UK nihangs "pay equal homage to all three Guru Granths" but the panthic rehat maryada says that the guru is "Guru Granth Sahib".. arent the UK nihangs creating their own cult? they are making their own guru ship.. isnt this entirely discrespecting our guru?

31) could the UK nihangs please explain what they have ever done for the panth that makes them so much greater than great shaheeds or gursikhs? in addition what is their stance on santa singh admin cut?

32) the UK nihangs call themselves "sanatan sikhs" which has never been heard before them, does this allude to the fact that they arent really sikhs or part of the panth?

33) the UK nihangs think its ok to drink liquor but is clearly against the panthic rehat marydada, what is their stance on this?

34) does jagdeep have multiple personality disorder (schizophrenia)?

35) how do the UK nihangs pick panj pyare? what is the standard they must meet? if the panj dont eat meat and dont read raagmala (all aspects falling in line with akal takht rehat) then do the UK nihangs consider these panj pyarai as being of gursikhi rehat or gursikhi jeevan? if not, does this mean the rehat of akal takht is wrong? if so then what is the stance of the UK nihangs?

36) could the UK nihangs please explain how they do keertan of japji sahib paurees or saloks of bhagat kabir jee if they beleive everything must be sung in exact raag? does this also mean that every keertani living today does keertan wrong because it is not always in same raag?

37) try and answer what i have written so far, if its beyond the capabilites of your phd mind on bhang, then just say so..

3 what makes UK nihangs sikhs? the UK nihangs go to great lengths to put down every real sikh and explain why slaughtering goats to make their site look "cool" and smoke bhang and drink and womanize yet now they claim to be sikhs. if a gursikh sleeps around, is buying non jhatka meat, smoking, and drinking, then he/she is FUNDAMENTALLY different from real sikhs and cannot say they follow the sikh panth. if they beleive they are right, does this make every other sikh false?

39) why is every quote you have from dasam granth about jhatka really just about killing humans and not animals, but you use this to justify meat eating?

does this mean:

a) you are wrong

you are wrong?

If it is this easy to prove that the UK nihangs are wrong with regards to bhang and womanizing, does it also mean they are possibly wrong with regards to other aspects of Sikh Faith? Does this also mean, that the literature that the UK nihangs write on their sites could have other incorrect facts within it?

I have tried to remain objective throughout this posting.

Please note, this is NOT a personal attack on the UK nihangs or narsinghs (jagdeeps) character...simply stating of FACTS and asking QUESTIONS designed to forward knowledge. Whether the facts and historical truths do not fall in line with admin cut thinking is something that cannot be helped. Perhaps the UK nihangs can provide a suitable explanation.

For the sake of making this an educational thread, please provide objective detailed historical/(full) scriptural quotes and references to all answers. and actually try ANSWERING for once instead of mind games...

[Narsingha]

I guess it ends here...

Your pathetic attempts at referring to as as "Nangs" wont get you very far.

Try as you may to come across as being intellectual, you have failed miserably. When you can stop the slander, and personal insults, and threats, then expect an answer. People such as yourselves even go as far as to make up malicious lies simply to malign the character of those who u consider a threat to the AKJ ideology.

The moderators seem to allow individuals such as "Akali Sirtor Singh Khalsa" using the derogatory term "admin cut" to refer to us and yet claim to ask for a civilised debate. This fake Tarna Dal Nihang called "Akali Sirtor Singh Khalsa" claims not to be slandering or attacking people's character, yet the terms he use prove otherwise.

Even more entertaining is that you claim to be affliliated with the "Tarna Dal". The Tarna Dal is subordinate to the Budha Dal. By insulting us, and referring to Nihang Nidar Singh, Akali Nihang Baba Santa Singh Ji, and myself as "Nangs", you have proven you are FAKES yourselves as you have no respect for the Budha Dal either. You are the real Nangs by your actions.

jokers.. :roll:

www.sarbloh.info and www.shastarvidiya will now become the voices and the truth will speak for itself. If you consider that we are "backing away", trust me we are not.

As time will show, this is simply the beginning of what is to come.

tata darlings...

Mod's Note: We already edited his post UK nihangs instead of ----- . So its time to be serious and have intellectual debate.

[Akali Sirtor Singh Khalsa]

wait.. what gives anyone the right to change the words in my post to giving them the respectful title of nihung? especially if they do not deserve it. And also, why delete my post showing they arent really part of any nihung dal?

[Guest]

wait.. what gives anyone the right to change the words in my post to giving them the respectful title of nihung? especially if they do not deserve it. And also, why delete my post showing they arent really part of any nihung dal?

Sirtor Singh Khalsa,

This is not a sikh only forum but we have invited other religions member to participate here so they can learn about Sikhism, so you better not use any kind of slur.

Talk to Akal Takat Jathedar and have him declare one hukumnama that these "Uk nihangs are admin cut" and we will let you use that word. This is not a battle ground but our mission is to give our youth one central platform where they can learn from each other.

We have a right or not for that you need to go through our rules on this site.

Here is the link for rules:

http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...topic.php?t=956

[Guest BikramjitSingh]

6) why do you translate bani the exact same was as RSS (fundamental hindus) websites do?

.

One of the main reasons that Narsingha was banned from the sikh history sites was because his Gurbani quotes were exactly the same as one oin an RSS site. These neo-Nihangs try to hoodwink us into believing that they are not affiliated to the RSS by throwing a bit of criticism in their direction but their activities show that they are just another in a long line of Panthic Dokhis like the Ram Raiyas, Dhirmaliyas, and others.

Narsingha has shown that he is unable to answer even a simple question about why his site refers to Guru Nanak as 'Akali', I doubt he will be able to answer questions on Rehat, santhya, Ithehaas such as the ones you put to him. In the end he has been shown up to what he really is a puppet in the hands of anti-Sikh forces.

GurFateh

Bikramjit

[Guest]

1) What happened to your old site? On that site they put pictures of shaheeds such as Bhai Fauja Singh Jee and called them UK nihangs. Then directly under that they put quotes from somewhere saying UK nihangs will be beat and their dharis will be cut.. why would you take that off? afraid it will make you look bad? (by the way I have a copy of your old site saved so you cannot deny it)

Sirtor Singh Khalsa,

As you've stated that you have a copy of their old website, so would you mind showing us as well?

Thanks!

[Guest]

One of the main reasons that Narsingha was banned from the sikh history sites was because his Gurbani quotes were exactly the same as one oin an RSS site. These neo-Nihangs try to hoodwink us into believing that they are not affiliated to the RSS by throwing a bit of criticism in their direction but their activities show that they are just another in a long line of Panthic Dokhis like the Ram Raiyas, Dhirmaliyas, and others.

Narsingha has shown that he is unable to answer even a simple question about why his site refers to Guru Nanak as 'Akali', I doubt he will be able to answer questions on Rehat, santhya, Ithehaas such as the ones you put to him. In the end he has been shown up to what he really is a puppet in the hands of anti-Sikh forces.

GurFateh

Bikramjit

Bikramjit Singh ji,

Can you post the link to that site and quotes of R.S.S? I want to look at them as well.

Thanks!

[sidak]

Narsingha - according to Budha Dal tradition (oral, scriptural etc etc), what was the minimum age one had to be before he could become a part of the Budha Dal ?

Unless the age stipulation has changed since the creation of the Budha and Tarna Dal's (in which case you should explain why this was changed and which of the Jathedars authorised it), aren't you a little too young to be part of the Budha Dal ?

[The truth]

While Akali Sirtor Singh Khalsa called you Nangs and this has upset you NarSingha please put this to one side and answer his questions

don't fob the sangat off by saying 'u will not answer cus of insults, slander' etc

because the questions he asked is in the same tone of questions that you asked about AKJ

so i guess don't be a hypercrite and just answer his questions'

otherwise i guess the sangat will realise you for the trouble maker that you are.

i have no doubt you have great knowlegde of History and tradition but Singh share it in a way which will make people who don't know much about it (myself included) want to learn, instead of coming across as a one man army on a mission full of ego and arrogrance.

[SUKHBIR]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,

Jagdeep, Nihang, Teja , Narsingha, browncookie or whatever pseudonym your using this week.

I guess it ends here...

What again? By my reckoning that's the third time you have chosen to 'retreat', I have always believed that a Sikh should stand by any resolution made, especially when made in the presence of the 'sangat' cyber or otherwise, yet you simply renege, it seems that this level of gumption is either far beyond you or you do not define yourself as such.

Your pathetic attempts at referring to as as "Nangs" wont get you very far.

Name calling is symptomatic of a climate that you, yourself have created, your contempt and disdain for any of the usual etiquette applied in discussion has been responsible for this situation.

Try as you may to come across as being intellectual, you have failed miserably..... People such as yourselves even go as far as to make up malicious lies simply to malign the character of those who u consider a threat to the AKJ ideology.

Intellectual seems to be a real word of choice with you, doesn't it? Is this a genuine fondness for the word or just indicative of a limited vocabulary? I doubt there are few of your posts where it hasn't been employed, you flatter yourself beyond reason if you consider your own abilities to be superior to other posters, based purely upon the structure and 'standard' of your post's, your reasoning and understanding or lack of it and not your affiliations, I would say that your of average competence, for a tertiary college student.

"When you can stop the slander, and personal insults, and threats, then expect an answer."

It is clear that you are unable to provide an answer under any circumstances as has been suitably demonstrated by this thread. To accuse someone of slander is yet again a case of the "pot calling the kettle black" as is evident from your

"People such as yourselves even go as far as to make up malicious lies"

comment.

The moderators seem to allow individuals such as "Akali Sirtor Singh Khalsa" using the derogatory term "admin cut" to refer to us and yet claim to ask for a civilised debate. This fake Tarna Dal Nihang called "Akali Sirtor Singh Khalsa" claims not to be slandering or attacking people's character, yet the terms he use prove otherwise.

Showing a lack of respect to fellow posters has been your 'forte' for some time even though its nothing more than a 'cheap rouse' intended to portray a aloofness of spirit, which as is evident in your more revealing posts, does not exist. Further you have no right to 'cry wolf' on the issue of personal attack or name calling since you are one of this sites most accomplished perpetrators.

Is this the sort of thing your referring to? From your last post!

?..... jokers.. you are FAKES... You are the real Nangs....

Even more entertaining is that you claim to be afliated with the "Tarna Dal". The Tarna Dal is subordinate to the Budha Dal. By insulting us, and referring to Nihang Nidar Singh, Akali Nihang Baba Santa Singh Ji, and myself as "Nangs", you have proven you are FAKES yourselves as you have no respect for the Budha Dal either. You are the real Nangs by your actions. www.sarbloh.info and www.shastarvidiya will now become the voices and the truth will speak for itself. If you consider that we are "backing away", trust me we are not.

The voices of truth? Truth?

From an individual who adopts multiple post identities to deceive, truth from an individual who would rather lie and use diversion than admit he cannot answer a question? Truth from an individual who declares he is to leave the site three times and fails to do so?

So your request for anyone to trust you is a very, very hollow request indeed.

'Backing away', retreat, surrender, give up, throw in the towel, use any combination you like to explain your actions but you have yet again been 'outed' this is not the first time or as I have discovered the first site that has lifted your thin veil.

As time will show, this is simply the beginning of what is to come.

tata darlings...

More to come? More lies, more deception, more manipulation, more denials, more empty declarations. I doubt anyone waits with baited breath.

Gur Fateh

Sukhbir Singh

Note for moderator : This post is neither slanderous nor personal it is based solely on post material to date, any derogatory comment made in this post by me has only arisen as a considered and equal response to earlier comment made within this thread and I would be more than happy to justify/validate any and all comments that I have made.

F.A.O. The Truth.

Veer, citing the use of the word 'admin cut' as 'his' reason for not replying is nothing more than a petty excuse. An answer was not forthcoming before the comment was even made, further, equally derogatory comments had already been made by 'nar...etc.' before the 'admin cut' posting.

[Guest BikramjitSingh]

Bikramjit Singh ji,

Can you post the link to that site and quotes of R.S.S? I want to look at them as well.

Thanks!

Truth Singh

Unfortunately that thread was deleted by Nasingha ( aka Nihang ) when the other sikh history forum users got wise to the fact that is knowledge of Gurbani came from RSS sites. At that timne sikh history forum had a facility for the thread originator to delete the thread. As Narsingha ( nihang ) started the thread he deleted them and went off.

GurFateh

Bikramjit

[truesingh]

Just a quick question. im not from the UK so i dunno how the nihangs are under RSS influence like you guys claim. How are they so successful in throwing gatks events there? it seems like they have alot of influence in the UK?

[Guest Javanmard]

There's more influence of RSS in Canada and the US (main contributor) but by the way....AKJ has welcomed RSS in the SIkh Panth. WHo are the real RSS bootlickers then :roll:

[truesingh]

lalleshvari,

your wrong about RSS influence here in canada. I dunno where you get your info. from but your sooo wrong.

[Jeff]

I have a genuine question about Sarbloh Granth. I've read that Sarbloh Granth isn't authentic or written by Guru Gobind Singh jee. What is the history of this Granth? I personally feel that shabads like "Khalsao mero roop hai khaas" seem like baaNee, but scholars feel otherwise.

the Encyclopaedia of Sikhism says:

"The authorship is however questioned by researchers and Scholars of Sikhism on several counts. First, the work is marked by extraordinary effusiveness and discursiveness of style over against the compactness characteristic of Guru Gobind Singh's composition as collected in the Dasam Granth. Qualitatively too, the poety of Sarbloh Granth does not match that of Guru Gobind Singh's Chandi Charitras and aar Durga Kee dealing with the same topic of wars between the gods and the demons. Profusion of metaphor and superb imagery of the latter compositions are missing here. Second, the author of Sarbloh Granth often uses his name, "Das Gobind" or the phrase "Das Gobind Fatah satigur ki" which is generally contrary to the style of Guru Gobind Singh. Third, the Sarbloh Granth contains, quite out of context, an account of the Sikh religion, which also includes a reference to the devolution of guruship on Guru Granth and Guru Panth (stanzas 3159-66). This would be out of place in a work of Guru Gobind Singh's own composition. Lastly, there is also a reference in it to Rup Dip Bhasha Pingal (stanza 2938/8) a work on prosody written by one Jaya Krishna in 1719, i.e. eleven years after the death of the Guru.

According to Pandit Tara Singh Narotam, a nineteenth century Sikh scholar and researcher, Sarbloh Granth is the work of Bhai Sukha Singh, a granthi or priest at Takht Harimandar Sahib at Patna Sahib, who however claimed that he acquired its manuscript from an Udasi recluse living in a forest near Jagannath (Orissa)."

The Encyclopaedia of Sikhism ed. Harbans Singh Punjabi University Patiala,

Vol 4, pg. 57

I looked at www.sarbloh.info and couldn't find much information on it. What do the Nihangs say is the origin of Sarbloh Granth and why wasn't it incorporated into Dasam Granth? I believe the old sarbloh.com site said that this granth was found in Hazoor Saahib by Dasam Pita and was written by him in an earlier jug. Is this true?

If it is BaaNee, then I think the Buddha Dal has made a mistake by selling it on the open market. It was the only granth not sold in stores, and it should have stayed that way. But I hope some Nihangs who are knowledgeable about this topic will enlighten us and comment on the above doubts I found in the Encyclopaedia.

[jagjit_waheguru]

There's more influence of RSS in Canada and the US (main contributor) but by the way....AKJ has welcomed RSS in the SIkh Panth. WHo are the real RSS bootlickers then :roll:

waheguru ji ke khalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh

Pyare jio, funny how nihangs act when the Gursikhs intellectually debate with them. I note no answers to questions sent by one veer.

As far as above quote, again by a hidden name.

Das, organised for what I know was the only Panthic level Uk conference on RSS, which happened in Coventry about 3 years ago. It was the first time detailed information on RSS was shown, and sent for noticeboards in all Uk Gurdwaras. At that time, AKJ UK was the only jathebandie to actively help and fund. Other supported, but only AKJ UK would fully stand by it. Note nihangs did nothing, just like 84. Now you wonder why I like the jatha.

After that all other groups like taksal, and Boss also made stands against RSS at various times. Here in Bradford where we have the most rightwing Hindu temple in Uk, who are openly VHP/RSS, only AKJ uk and Singh sabha Gurdwara stood against them.

So as you have done nothing yourselves apart from freely advertise their material and philosophy for them on the websites, why criticise the one group who did the most at the beginning. And before you put a silly newspaper report on, find the newspaper retraction the next day and put that on aswell.

Will be away for a week, so will read your responses when I get back. I have changed my mind about this forum, and appreciate you allowing this. But please like you did on other threads make Jagdeep and Co, answers the questions. For all their seek the truth, and intectual debate demands, they seem awful quiet on answers.

Lastly 2 questions, lallesvari, the fish which you eat as an amritdhari, how do you know it is not halal. They do fish aswell. Do you going fishing to get it?

To Jagdeep: I recently had a debate with a really intectual Pandit on life and religion. We spoke for hours. It was just for personal knowledge. However he revealed to me, That snaatan Sikhi as a concept was invented by Swami Dayanand, founder of Arya Smajism, philospoher for RSS. He used it to try to convince Sikhs they were Hindus, with deep debate. Thanks To Guru Ji in the Panth, Gursikhs like Singh sabha Movement countered everything he did. It seems he only convinced the Nihangs. Funny how that could happen with such intellect amongst them.

Anyway, I have asked him for text to prove this, so just to warn you may need a website on this aswell.

To the person who genuinely started this thread, you said everything these nihangs is against what you percieve to be Sikhi. Remember that, it is your natural instinct. They quote alot of dasam granth and other texts out of context. The problem is us, we should have more knowledge on these to counter this. This is Guru jis way of waking us up. Note no-to little use of Guru Granth sahib on their websites, because it slates their practices. They cannot even accept it as the Guru Granth sahib, calling it Adi Guru darbur.

The Nihangs of old did not do bhang,meat, etc. Baba banda Singh bahadhur and his singhs were seiged without food for months, and lived on leaves and Naam. Then afterwards every Singh was prepared to be Shaheed with him, not one turned his back. That is the effect of Naam.

The Guru Granth sahib is Sikhi, Naam Is Sikhi, Snaatan Sikhi is nothing but cleverness, to distract the Khalsa Panth from showing its unique lifestyle to humanity.

waheguru ji ke khalsa, waheguru ji ke fateh