Woman As Guru

[CdnSikhGirl]

I've never heard these jokes?

Maybe you're speaking about a culture specific thing?

Hmmm like these.... the idea is that women's sole purpose is to serve men... for example by making them sandwiches whenever they ask. There are variations, but all basically stating a woman's place is only in the kitchen making food for the man at his every whim. Can you really blame us for being upset at this???

b2ap3_thumbnail_Sandwiches2-610x450.jpg

Sandwiches_6bda81_450710.jpg

8d58f901df81e70315bbacba775a73cf876a29488903b681ae704af0abc97b5f.jpg

Edited December 18, 2014 by Satkirin_Kaur

[BhagatSingh]

You make it sound like a career is horrible!

If that's what you got out of my post. I am sorry you missed the point completely.

I would be like if you were given a gun on a gun range and showed a target, in front of you to aim at. You would have missed the shot so hard that... let's just say you would not be welcome to that gun range ever again lol.

Seriously, I tried my best to present the information in bite-size. From your post it sounds like you didn't read it or don't care.

Maybe it's because I am a man, and what I say does not matter to you. I am starting to consider that hypothesis based on your recent replies.

PS "make me a sammich" joke is a humourous response to the misinformation that feminism and feminist have been spreading.

It's not a wise response I agree but it is the internet so what did we expect?

There are women who know better than to take "make me a sammich" seriously. They know who it is targeted at and they don't take offense because it is just a joke. You do know what a joke means don't you?

Learn something from her.

[BhagatSingh]

I've never heard these jokes?

Maybe you're speaking about a culture specific thing?

It is. This joke is specific to feminist cultures.

Feminists have bred the idea that (and I'll quote Satkirin): "wife (servant) and Mother (baby machine)"

[CdnSikhGirl]

You are also missing the point in that... feminism does not aim to put women in a superior position to men, they only seek to have equal opportunity and equal say in society. Men on the other hand are actually asking for superiority and authority over women...(masculinism I guess would be the opposite) There is a huge difference.

Strict Patriarchy operates in a system whereby the men have all the authority in society, women have no say. Same in the family... the husband gets his way all the time, while the wife has no decision making power.

To not have a voice in society is a bad position to be in with regards to your well being...

Guru Nanak was actually a feminist, by declaring that men and women were equal and deserved equal treatment.

I can understand that men would not want to give up all that power over women, but the only reason that in the last few centuries we have been given rights equal to men, was because of 'feminists' who fought for it.

And again, I have nothing against men...I believe I stated everyone should receive equal opportunity and say in society... women AND men alike. Wanting the same opportunities, is not the same as hating men. Far from it! Yet, you are trying to say that restricting women to the home into traditional roles and out of society and men being in authority positions over women, that does not equal discrimination to women?? That somehow men 'lording it' over women = harmony.

I am about to get married... he is not and never will be my 'superior'. I don't take commands from him and never will. And I WILL have equal say in the family, he won't have all decision authority, we will share it equally and talk things out. I WILL work side by side with him, to achieve the same goals. And I will make compromises, under the understanding that he will too. That's different. And he actually has worked on projects to empower women, so I guess I am lucky to have found him. He lives in India btw and is an Amritdhari Sikh!

[dalsingh101]

Guru Nanak was actually a feminist, by declaring that men and women were equal and deserved equal treatment.

No he wasn't.

One of the key, conspicuous things about white feminism is the overt aggressive emphasis on sexual freedom for women, which easily turns into promiscuity at ground level. Our Gurus would never have supported these wanton notions.

Feminisms main planks when it comes to female sexuality seem to be:

"I will dress how I damn well like, even if I look like a hooker, and no one should judge me for it"

"I will shag however many men I want, it's MY body and no one else's business!"

No way our Guru's would be supportive of that.

Sure: they'd probably support equal pay and opportunity, but all the other crap that comes with it - I don't see it.

Then you have the other weirdness of feminists brainwashed into thinking anything to do with the kitchen or cooking is some form of male oppression. I love cooking, do it ALL THE TIME. Then you meet these women who just can't be arsed because of stupid notions implanted in their heads - don't worry darling, we'll just feed the kids on takeaways and restaurant food then..... lol

Feminism - whatever noble objectives it might of had in its inception - has become skewed.

Edited December 19, 2014 by dalsingh101

[BhagatSingh]

Satkirin,

With each post you miss the mark. I don't even know where you begin responding to your post as it stems from a wrong paradigm.

Again just to make myself clear. I am not saying you are not spiritual or not a good woman or person or anything like that. I am sure you are exalted in that area. I am not saying you should sit at home and be a housewife or a mother. I think you should do whatever your heart or your gut feeling tells you.

So my objection here is not with you as a being. I am not saying any of the things you think I am saying. I am simply targeting this frame of reference you have with regards to gender and the issues that both genders face. I am saying that your framework is distorted.

The framework by which you are looking at reality is itself wrong. The way in which you are looking at things has been tainted by feminist ideology.

As Dally said:

Then you have the other weirdness of feminists brainwashed into thinking anything to do with the kitchen or cooking is some form of male oppression. I love cooking, do it ALL THE TIME. Then you meet these women who just can't be arsed because of stupid notions implanted in their heads - don't worry darling, we'll just feed the kids on takeaways and restaurant food then..... lol

This is only the beginning. Feminists have gone much further than to the point of utter insanity.

I have lived amongst married men and women in India and have been carefully observing their behaviour, coming from a previously feminist background myself just like you. So I know that your understanding of their lives is completely horse crap because my own understand prior to that was horse crap. I had no idea how they lived, and how they did things in and outside the household until I took a closer look, until I started studying more about it.

That's why I say you are simply operating from what you've been told growing up and you've taken that as gospel. Your fundamental frame of reference is all skewed. You have no first hand experience of it. You are only going by what the dominant ideology of the culture you are born in. On top of that when shown examples of male suffering that is equivalent if not greater than female suffering, you had nothing to say. It does not even fit within your framework. You completely ignored it, you didn't even acknowledge that that could be possible.

Dally you say:

Feminism - whatever noble objectives it might of had in its inception - has become skewed.

It's skewed no doubt.

However, did feminists/feminism ever have a noble objective? Here's what this woman has to say about it.

[CdnSikhGirl]

Oh, I agree there is an overlap in the old paradigm... there are men who would prefer passive roles with no decision making and they had struggles too, just as much as the women who prefer more leadership roles with authority. All that shows us, is that there should not be gender based roles to begin with. We should just let people pursue what they want to without trying to dictate what they can and can't do based on what's between their legs.

There are Fathers now who are happy staying at home with their kids while the Mothers are out working in CEO and exec positions. The decision was made because she was making more, and financially it made more sense for him to stay home. I don't see anything wrong with it. And neither do the men who do that. I think it's a personal decision and choice.... and should be left to the individuals to decide.

As it pertained to the original post however, I still think that the Gurus being men had nothing to do with men being more spiritual or anything, I think it was because at that time, women were dictated into more subordinate roles, and they would not have been taken as seriously. And also, coming from a man, the statement that women and men deserve equal treatment, meant much more than if it had been a woman claiming it.

Edited December 20, 2014 by Satkirin_Kaur

[harsharan000]

I think the topic is going off track.

We are more on issues of men and women, rather than, what a Guru means. We think we elect gurus as in political elections for a particular period of time.

The true Guru is Shabad, the True Guru is Brahmgyani, the True Guru is Gurumukh, the True Guru is the Lord Himself.

And just as Wahiguru has no gender, it is His power, His level of Consciousness which works in that particular body.

It is like a battery, which works the same in a doll, as in the soldier. It is the energy of that battery which makes them work, not the otherwise, that the toys work better, as per how they were designed or the roles to play.

In a siimilar way, the physical body of a woman or the man is not the Guru, which by the way is the topic of this thread. The Guru is not perisahble, the bodies of men or women, are just a handful of dust .... So, as said, Guru, is a power, which can work out His duties at the best, in any conditions, He has no such limits, though limited in disguise, as He is in a physical body which is just a covering

The True Guru, works on the inner planes, to guide the souls back to their True Home, Sach Khand .

Outwardly He only inspires us, to love Him, by doing the real bhakti.

Last, but not the least, it is Wahiguru´s choice, it is His mauj, He can do what He feels like. As said, if He wanted, what to say about human beings, He can make even the stones carry out His Hukum...

So brothers and sisters, sangat, let us not argue on the mayavee coverings(bodies, genders), but pay attention, to what He says to us through those wadbhagee Gurmukhs(irrespective of genders).

To argue about genders of the True gurus, is to question Wahiguru Himself.

Is that not shameful? Our manmukhta, has no limits .....

As long as the creation exists, either men or women, both shall continue to be imperfect beings, only by doing the real bhakti and elevating our consciousness to His level, shall we become perfect, then there shall be no arguments, that men this, or women that, because then, only He will exist.

Sat Sree Akal.

Edited December 21, 2014 by harsharan000

[CdnSikhGirl]

harsharan ji, beautifully put!

[ramgharia]

I think the topic is going off track.

We are more on issues of men and women, rather than, what a Guru means. We think we elect gurus as in political elections for a particular period of time.

The true Guru is Shabad, the True Guru is brhamgyani, the True Guru is Gurumukh, the True Guru is the Lord Himself.

And just as Wahiguru has no gender, it is His power, His level of Consciousness which works in that particular body.

It is like a battery, which works the same in a doll, as in the soldier. It is the energy of that battery which makes them work, not the otherwise, that the toys work better,a s per how they were designed or the roles to play.

In a siimilar way, the physical body of a woman or the man is not the Guru, which by the way is the topic of this thread. The Guru is not perisahble, the bodies of men or women, are just a handful of dust .... So, a said Guru, is a power, which can work out His duties at the best, in any conditions, He has no such limits, though limited in disguise, as He is in a physical body which is just a covering

The True Guru, works on the inner planes, to guide the souls back to their True Home, Sach Khand .

Outwardly He only inspires us, to love Him, by doing the real bhakti.

Last, but not the least, it is Wahiguru´s choice, it is His mauj, He can do what He feels like. As said, if He wanted, what to say about human beings, He can make even the stones carry out His Hukum...

So brothers and sisters, sangat, let us not argue on the mayavee coverings(bodies, genders), but pay attention, to what He says to us through those wadbhagee Gurmukhs(irrespective of genders).

To argue about genders of the True gurus, is to question Wahiguru Himself.

Is that not shameful? Our manmukhta, has no limits .....

As long as the creation exists, either men or women, both shall continue to be imperfect beings, only by doing the real bhakti and elevating our consciousness to His level, shall we become perfect, then there shall be no arguments, that men this, or women that, because then, only He will exist.

Sat Sree Akal.

thankyou for helping me.

[Anandpuria]

Just keeping aside the important debate about feminism, could someone help me? I am trying to write about the Baisakhi 1699 event. We all are aware that Guru ji ordained that a male Sikh on having been administered Khande di Pahul should append 'Singh' epithet to his first name. All early references confirm this. However, I haven't been able to locate the earliest reference ordaining a female to append 'Kaur' to her first name. Almost all references during and after Singh Sabha movement say so. I would be grateful if I could find the original reference closer to1699 during the 18th century. I feel the issue being debated about 'Women as Guru' falls broadly in a similar category.

[BhagatSingh]

Anandpuria,

Make a separate thread on that topic. Talk about the references that you have found. Post them up so everyone can see what you are talking about, that way we can be on the same page. Put up images, books, etc whatever you can to make your case as convincing as possible.

I think that will be very beneficial for those like me who are interested in pre-Singh Sabha history.

[harsharan000]

The constant discussion here on this thread, was, if a woman can be a Guru?

Through the aid of the Bani, let us see, what Guru Jee has to tell us, in this case we are taking the pure paviter Bani of Dhan Dhan Satguru Sachay Patshah Amar Das Maharaj, from Raag Maaroo ang 1068:

First of all He clearly tells us about how to make possible our union with the Almighty Wahiguru Akal Purukh:

ਨਾਨਕੁ ਏਕ ਕਹੈ ਬੇਨੰਤੀ ਨਾਮੇ ਨਾਮਿ ਸਮਾਇਆ

Naanak Eaek Kehai Baenanthee Naamae Naam Samaaeiaa

नानकु एक कहै बेनंती नामे नामि समाइआ

Nanak offers this one prayer: through the Naam, the Name of the Lord, may I merge in the Lord.

In this upper line, we can clearly see, that He is pointing us the way to merge our souls in that Infinite Ocean, namely Wahiguru;

He says, that throuh Naam only, can one make taht union possible.

Let us not look what is being done around us, or what the world is doing or has been doing until now. The world is governed by maya, by koor, so naturally the world is blind and going astray.

But in our case, we have to look at ourselves, as per how much we are putting Gurmat in our lives.

You see, no matter however we may not like to listen or see the Truths in the Bani, but then 500 years back; or infinte cycles of yugas one after the other, the message of the Gurmukhs, or Guru Sahibans, will always be the same.

Wahiguru is one, the way to reach Him has to be one, and this way, howsoever we maybe placed at different places or countries, but, this one path, Wahiguru has kept it within each one of us as same, to reach Him succesfully.

This path is designed by He Himself, is not man made

For Him we are souls, not different nationaliteis, nor genders, colors or classes. So it is our soul, (not our body) which has to elevate within and reach Him.

Man has created rituals, diversty of religions, pilgrimages, and an endless outer activities, which draws our attention only outwards, thus taking us awy from our objective: Wahiguru.

His wisdom surpasses all excelence. So if we really want to find and meet Him, we have to follow His instructions impilcitly.

It is only through His Naam bhakti, which withdraws our attention from maya, and focus on Him, thus we get attracted, we get pulled towards Him. It is He Himself, who pulls us through His Naam, and also merges our soul consciousness in Him, as seen in the words of Sachay Patshah Amar Das Maharaj.

So, if anything to be said, Gurmat or Sikhee, is path which revolves around Naam, or Shabad, which is the only Truth, everything else manmat, is paraphernalia, or call it illusion....

Then the second point to be kept in mind, in this Bani of Guru Amar Das Maharaj in the following line:

ਪੂਰੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਸੁਹਾਈ

Poorai Sabadh Bhagath Suhaaee

पूरै सबदि भगति सुहाई

Sublime and exalted is devotion to the Perfect Word of the Shabad.

Here He is telling us, that the bhakti of Naam, is the highest and the most perfect, thus the only valuable and profitable for us, any other practices, will be the reason of our constant coming and going in the cycle of 84.

The words of Guru Sahibans, are not to scare anybody, but to just make us aware of our spiritual nature, and to guide us back to Wahiguru, without any failure. This is His guarantee.

Many of us complain, that inspite of being religious minded in our own way, we do not get that bliss, that satisfaction, that taste of peace and tranquility, neither is our faith stable and firm ....

The answer to these our weaknesses, Guru Jee in the line below, says, that only by Naam Simran of Naam Bhakti, one mind gets defeated, then the soul is freed from its grip, and flies higher and higher in the planes of purity and true bliss, thus the soul gets strongly attracted like iron to magnet, and then the nearer it goes, the stronger the pull... until it finally gets joined to Him, there is no other way, nor shortcut.

ਮਨੁ ਤਨੁ ਸਚੀ ਭਗਤੀ ਰਾਤਾ ਸਚੇ ਸਿਉ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਇਆ

Man Than Sachee Bhagathee Raathaa Sachae Sio Chith Laaeiaa

मनु तनु सची भगती राता सचे सिउ चितु लाइआ

One whose mind and body are imbued with true devotion, focuses his consciousness on the True Lord.

Going still one step further, Sachay Sahib Amar Das, reveals us the secret, for our union with Him in the line below.

He says, it is only through Shabad practice or Naam Simran, that one cuts and burns off all karmas, thus one is liberated for once and forever. And then when one is liberated, one does not stay even for a second in the mayavee creation, but gets pulled by the power of that very Shabad up to Sach Khand....there is no other such power to accomplish this task of our union with Him.

ਆਵਣ ਜਾਣਾ ਸਬਦਿ ਨਿਵਾਰੇ

Aavan Jaanaa Sabadh Nivaarae

आवण जाणा सबदि निवारे

Through the Shabad, one's comings and goings in reincarnation are ended.

Then in this next line, He says, those who perform true devotion to merge in Him, get their objective, by loving the sweet Shabad, means, by being absorbed in His Simran in meditation

ਸਚੇ ਸੇਵਹਿ ਸਬਦਿ ਪਿਆਰਾ

Sachae Saevehi Sabadh Piaaraa

सचे सेवहि सबदि पिआरा

The true ones serve Him, through the Beloved Word of the Shabad.

ਸਹਜੇ ਗੁਣ ਰਵਹਿ ਦਿਨੁ ਰਾਤੀ ਜੋਤੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਮਿਲਾਇਆ

Sehajae Gun Ravehi Dhin Raathee Jothee Joth Milaaeiaa

सहजे गुण रवहि दिनु राती जोती जोति मिलाइआ

One who intuitively chants God's Glorious Praises day and night - his light merges into the Light.

In this upper line, Sachay Patshah Amar Das, reveals us our true nature as well as of Him and His Bhagats or Guru Sahibans.

He says, when we meditate on Naam, through its Simran constantly and regularly, we become inmaculate, then we as souls, our light, like that of a sun ray, which one day emerged from the Sun, merges back in the Infinte Sun: Satpurukh.

So, just as Light has no gender, and its purpose is to shine and give Light to dispel darkness, in a similar way, when Wahiguru comes and establishes Himself as a Guru or Guide, it is that Supraconscuois Light full of love, mercy, grace, wisdom ....which projects itself on us through that Guru in that particular body, which otherwise as we know, physical man/woman, is combination of matter and mind, thus totally ignorant or spiritually blind.

But only when Wahiguru comes and manifests Himself for a particular time in a particular body, for our spiritual uplift, that being is called Guru, that also, not per our wishes, but by His Hukum, His Mauj.

Then when it fulfills its purpose, as seen in the words of Amar Das Maharaj, any ray(soul), any Light(Gurmukhs), having emerged from Wahiguru Akal Purukh, return there to their origin, and merge in Him.

It is we manmukhs who constantly create controversies and disputes, because we put our minds above everything, but the teachings of Guru Sahibans are very clear.

So if we ever want to grow and become spiritually wise, we just have to follow Gurmat, which is not difficult at all, but very easy, and very simple, as simple as :

Jin Har japeeya, se Har hoeeya.

Sat Sree AAkal.

Edited December 28, 2014 by harsharan000

[CdnSikhGirl]

Exactly! Their gender did not matter. By trying to say that they were male because..... or they couldn't possibly ever be female because.... we are missing the point. Their gender was inconsequential. Soul is genderless! The light within them is genderless!

Edited December 28, 2014 by Satkirin_Kaur

[harsharan000]

Anyhow, I think it is better to be a sikh or disciple, rather than to be a Guru....

Why?

Just as being a child, one becomes worrryless, as one is taken care of .....

It is better to be a lover, than the beloved....

So that we may love with all our heart mind and soul, to the most beloved, and the most worthy, none other than Wahiguru Akal Purukh.

Jokes apart, being a Guru is not a question of choice.

It is a Hukum or Mauj of Wahiguru Akal Purukh.

That is important, Gurmat; not our choices, manmat.

Edited December 28, 2014 by harsharan000

[harsharan000]

In Raag Sorath, Third Patshahee, tells us something to be taken into consideration, of our true nature as souls and the one of a True Guru.

He says:

so guroo so sikh hai bhaa-ee jis jotee jot milaa-ay.
He alone is the Guru, and he alone is a Sikh, O Siblings of Destiny, whose light merges in the Light.

He says, our soul, or the True Guru, are nothing but Light, and as such, in the end merge in the eternal Light of wahiguru Akal Purukh.

So if the primal Light has no genders or colors, what genders or colors of caste, religion, natinality, race have the souls as such?

If the mighty Ocean, Satnam Samundar, has no caste or creed, what race, color, caste, creed or gender does the "mamulee" soul drops can have?

Our bodies are just coverings, with particular attributes, which are material are physicall, related to the those coverings, not the soul.

The soul is a naked ray of Light, with coverings in this creation, such as the three bodies, the mind and karmas .... but the soul as seen in essence, is nothing, but a spark of the Akhand Jot of Wahiguru Akal Purukh.

The job of the True Guru, is nothing, but to reunite our souls with that Primal Light of Satnam, through the Shabad. In that sense, that power of Wahiguru works as a guide, as a Guru, as a dispeller of darkness of our manmukhta, who leads us to Wahiguru Himself.

We have seen throughout the history, many men and women as kings, queens, poes, priests, priestessses, presidents of states or any other political or social order, which raech there by their own efforts, or by fighting for it, or even by recomendations, elections, by the people ....

But that True Guru, of whom the Bani talks about, is sent by Wahiguru Himself. He is no self/ man made guru.

These are fake, or better said uncomplete ....

Through Gurbani, Gurmat, we learn to overcome all our spiritual deficencies, thus we become more mature and broad minded, by seeing things in their true measure.

So let us not look at the coverings of the Guru, but the Light of Wahiguru shinning in them, irrespective of their genders.

By trying to look or find anything else apart from this in them, we miss , we deprive ourselves, of the chance of having full darshan of Wahiguru.

Sat Sree Akal.

[PAL 07]

Baba Beeram Das gave his gaddi to a woman and she was the spiritual leader Guru of the dera, just like in Sikh history of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji his wives were authoritarian figures

[CdnSikhGirl]

This is a very good point I just came across from a post from N30 S1NGH awhile ago...

That a married couple become ONE soul in two bodies, so therefore, the Gurus were really male AND female. The male form may have been the one that spoke out, but since the Gurus and their wives were really one soul in two bodies, they were literally one person, so therefore the Gurus were both male AND female, and the Guru's Jot was working through both bodies.

[tva prasad]

On ‎17‎/‎12‎/‎2014 at 8:53 AM, BhagatSingh said:

There have been only a few women who have explored it e.g. Meera Bai, who sung many poems and wrote herself, and Mai Bhago (although she never wrote any poetry), etc. And they are known for that as well.

 

However, the fact is that many more men have been mastering meditation than women and that's why most Gurus are men.

you wouldn't know how many women sants u have seen anyway. If they were a sant they wouldn't let people know. They stay gupt.

It is hard for me to point out who is a sant since I don't have an avastha. Only a brahmgiani can truly recognise a brahmgiani.

most gurus are men to represent god (husband) and we are the soul-brides.

[Tina Kaur Bains]

WJKK WJKF 

Agree - that Noor Ki Haqq (Light is Truth). Akaal Purakh Ki Joth is what exists within each of the 11 Guru Jees. Which is gender less, formless,infinite and beyond human mind grasp ( as an average human utilizes less than 1 % of there brain).

As a female who had advocated for female rights in a testosterone fueled environment for decades - I feel there is a definite difference between man and woman.  All my life I have tried to the uphold the punjabi tradition qualities of a "boy" as a "girl" in both west and east domains - you know it was exhausting. What I feel I discovered :

- Each gender have their own qualities that are required to form a symbiotic relationship

- Men have larger brain spans than women (fact : I cringed as well when I found out)

- Women are being victimized to compete with men. (I tried this too, and succeeded at an educational and corporate level, however when it came to jit jutsu and boxing - I was always thrashed by a men in sparring).

I believe Guru jee made women with beautiful qualities, of love, tenderness, compassion (greater than men) and are are gifted to men to make them grounded. Without wo men, men would not survive as Asa Di Vaar tells us. Funny thing, women are so strong we can survive without men but vice versa not so. We should be proud as women of the amazing strength and characteristics we have and not try compete with men.

In the Olympics till this day that divides sports on gender based. Same way an army and corporate fields will divide (although we have women specific roles - which will be utilized as and when needed)

Hence the Khalsa Fauj - army was created by Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Jee.  Where men have been baptized and the Guru Jees where all in the body of a male carrying the joth. This is not implying women have no strength - as chandi, kali ma, where beyound powerful. Satkar given to a Shree Sahib (kirpan) denotes the scale of which guru jee was defining a womens strength.

However, deep down inside my journey I keep feeling the Khalsa Fauj was made for men - purely because of the physical characteristics that waheguru attributed to them Yes, women can too compete with men and I have seen the years of training which women have to go through - yet they cannot still compete with men on many forms of sports.

 

Bhul Chuk Maaf Karna Mere Waheguru

 

[Liv]

On 12/16/2014 at 1:28 PM, jaikaara said:

This is just one of the tantrum kinda questions ..how many lady saints have been seen in Islam and Christianity ? why is the Pope always a man ? Why is the Imam always a man ?

 

If that is not enough , they will jump to gays and transsexuals.

"tantrum" kind of questions? With respect, let's not move to convenient implied misogyny to get across your point. Please try again and this time use describing, respectful, compassionate words. Start with Daya - it was the first name of the Panj Pyareh chosen by your Guru. And what, of all things, do you mean by "jump to gays and transsexuals". ? If you are going to commence a learned discussion at the level of resorting to labels, at least have the courage "Jaikaara" to finish what you start. It is then we can see and respond to you in your full glory. 

With respect, please try again. 

[Liv]

On 16/12/2014 at 6:12 PM, ragnarok said:

There is no gender for the Guru. Guru is neither man or woman, people who see only the body of the Guru do not see the Guru.

Correct. You collect all medals and jewels of good fortune at this point and proceed direct to to the top! Well done you ! 

[Liv]

On 17/12/2014 at 6:13 AM, CdnSikhGirl said:

I have to disagree with you BhagatSingh Ji... about women not being as spiritual or meditating etc. I think it's just that women have not felt the need to speak openly about it as much, or if they did, they were held back from doing so for fear of not being taken seriously in a society that saw women as lower spiritually then men. I think both gender equally have the same capacity for spiritual awareness and awakening.

 

I think the Gurus being male was more because of society at that time would never have taken women seriously, and women being uplifted to equal status, the ideal had to come from men.

 

Besides I think there are far more Sants who were female than we will ever know, but since they were not written about like the men, and because women usually do not feel the need to parade around stating to everyone that they are, they were kind of lost in history.

 

I have talked personally to far more women who have had natural spiritual experiences (without even trying) than men who have.

We have just had too many males dominating the conversation. Next these patriarchal types who hold incorrect interpretations of the myth that anyone let alone a male is superior to anyone else let alone a woman will try to have a go at those who practice their lives through the spectrum of sexuality and gender identity. Judgement is just one small step from hate. Judgement is not love -- only Waheguru is love. You're doing great holding your voice here and staying true to you. And, you identify as a Woman. Good on you. Your Guru is proud of you as am I. We need more women like you in this world to raise better men in the future who will just drop their egos or stories made up to serve a dangerous idea that they are in any way superior-- no one is-- no woman superior to any man - no man superior to any woman-- the "male" Guru was connected to God- God is genderless. The final incarnation of our eternal Guru is Guru Granth Sahib Ji -- genderless. When we move beyond gender we see eternity. I will meet you there ❤️???

[Liv]

On 03/11/2016 at 2:27 PM, tva prasad said:

you wouldn't know how many women sants u have seen anyway. If they were a sant they wouldn't let people know. They stay gupt.

It is hard for me to point out who is a sant since I don't have an avastha. Only a brahmgiani can truly recognise a brahmgiani.

most gurus are men to represent god (husband) and we are the soul-brides.

The only bhramgyani is waheguru 

[jaikaara]

23 hours ago, Liv said:

"tantrum" kind of questions? With respect, let's not move to convenient implied misogyny to get across your point. Please try again and this time use describing, respectful, compassionate words. Start with Daya - it was the first name of the Panj Pyareh chosen by your Guru. And what, of all things, do you mean by "jump to gays and transsexuals". ? If you are going to commence a learned discussion at the level of resorting to labels, at least have the courage "Jaikaara" to finish what you start. It is then we can see and respond to you in your full glory. 

With respect, please try again. 

you have all the time to do your flowery decoration with your words, so  please go ahead. The logic i gave was simple enough to understand, at every point a person who is different than other human beings will want to acquire a special status in the Panth , i should in fact say they want to just open the Pandora's box and distract the Panth.