Sant Hari Singh Ji Randhawale and pissed off members grilling him on woman equality

[paapiman]

Closing statements:
 

-  if Gyani jee knew that the Gurudwara follows the so-called SRM, then Gyani jee should not have talked about women and menstruation.
 

-  the Singh who uttered the death threat should have controlled his emotions. It is also illegal to utter a death threat in Canada. He should apologize to the women.
 

-  the woman in the video has full rights to express her opinions but, if she is not an amritdhari, she should not interfere in Gurmat matters.

 

-  Smegma, saliva, eye fluid and sweat for a healthy human cannot be compared to menstrual bleeding, blood, feces, urine, etc.
 

-  women must avoid doing any seva in a Gurudwara, especially Satguru jee's saroop's seva, when they are on periods
 

-  men, who have any medical condition, which can result in any involuntary ejection of fluids such as urine, seminal, etc, must also avoid doing Satguru jee's seva

 

-  Any person (male or female or otherwise) who is bleeding, not feeling well, has diarrhea, cold, running nose, high fever, on medications, has flu, any type of infection, any kind of contagious disease, etc must avoid doing Chaur sahib seva, kirtan, katha, langar seva, Maharaaj de seva, etc. This should be common sense as it maintains proper hygiene.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

 

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

Edited June 6, 2015 by paapiman

[Guest]

Closing statements:
 

-  if Gyani jee knew that the Gurudwara follows the so-called SRM, then Gyani jee should not have talked about women and menstruation.
 

​Please stop referring to Sikh Rehet Maryada as the 'so-called SRM' in every post, because it very overtly shows purposeful and abhorrent disrespect and this is very wrong - you should be ashamed for doing it, since this is whether you like it or not, it is panthic decision that was arrived at over years by literally hundreds of Sikhs from ALL backgrounds. 

If you do not follow SRM yourself then fine, follow whatever jatha you want but do not show such overt and abhorrent disrespect. It's very juvenile behaviour. You would be (and have been) the first to jump on anyone who criticizes your Rehet Maryada, but then you do this thing?  You are very juvenile person! 

[paapiman]

​Please stop referring to Sikh Rehet Maryada as the 'so-called SRM' in every post, because it very overtly shows purposeful and abhorrent disrespect and this is very wrong - you should be ashamed for doing it, since this is whether you like it or not, it is panthic decision that was arrived at over years by literally hundreds of Sikhs from ALL backgrounds. 

If you do not follow SRM yourself then fine, follow whatever jatha you want but do not show such overt and abhorrent disrespect. It's very juvenile behaviour. You would be (and have been) the first to jump on anyone who criticizes your Rehet Maryada, but then you do this thing?  You are very juvenile person! 

​Off-topic. Please start a new post, if you want to discuss the so-called SRM.

Bhul chuk maaf

[Guest]

No thanks, you just proved my point.  You are not one that should talk about respect in any way shape of form since you have no concept of it! 

[PAL 07]

Sant Giani Hari Singh isn't a yesterday school drop out who chooses to become a Giani with his eyes on the dollars.  He is the prestigious student of the great Sant Gurbachan Singh and what he has said is not wrong.  The problem is with the masses of Sikhs who are unable to comprehend simple principles on code of conduct but rather choose to make a huge drama about it in the hazuri of the Satguru and behave like junglee wild dogs.  The Akaal Takht needs to release an official Panthic Maryada that will stop any quarrels.

Until this doesn't happen more damage to the Panth will happen.  Central Government will prefer for this to not happen.  Whilst great scholars like Giani Hari Singh are with us it is imperative that this is done because the next lot of Dhunda's will surely create a great rehat maryada lol

 

[Guest]

And who gets to make this new Panthic Rehet Maryada? The one in existence was already developed by hundreds of Sikhs and took years.  I fear if certain sects have their say, then women in SIkhism will end up worth about as much as women in Islam.  Then what will happen to Sikhi?  You do realize that if the women leave, within only a few generations, Sikhi will be gone.  You don't call that damage?  It's already happening!  Sikh girls are marrying outside the faith because they don't see anything in it for them.  All they see are Sikh boys who look down on them and think of them as inferior and want to control, limit what they are allowed to do, dictate restrictions on women that men don't have.  Oh hey, I guess the new panthic maryada can add in there the threat of death if someone wants to leave.  Then where will be be? Sikhism will be a male only religion, and in a few decades it will be gone.  You cant really expect the women to hang around if they are shut out of everything and told to shut up and take their place as a subordinate.  

[Singh123456777]

This guest sounds a lot like Satkiran eh

[mahanpaapi]

[CdnSikhGirl]

Wow... I am not surprised by the comments from paapiman...  anyway here are some things I found: 

"Dear Khalsa Ji,

My detailed post on this issue is given below.

Sikhi tells us how to live a life of householder with spiritual purity. Sikhi applies to men and women alike. Sikhi gives advice only on few aspects of life, i.e. Mental Purity through Naam, Contribution to the society through Kirt, and Seva through Wand Shakkna. Our Panth is a stand-alone modern religion; it does not draw sustenance from other sources. 

Sikhi does not interfere with the natural processes of life, which are all place, time, person and situation dependent for the solution; our Guru Sahib knew this very well. How to deal with Menstruation, which is a natural process, is not he task of modern religion; it is in the domain of hygiene and sociology. It has nothing to do with spirituality.

You may please inform the individual (the one who has asked for information i.e. the researcher) that religions are neither mirror image of one another nor are they congruent. A religions should not be judged standing on the premise of some other religion, separated from each other by vast time span. 

Khalsa Panth enshrines equality among genders. Women are in no way inferior to Men. Please tell the researcher that Khalsa Panth, which is based on Sikhi, is a modern rational religion that has benefited from the progress made by mankind in the domain of knowledge. 

Menstruation is not an issue to be dealt by any modern religion. Khalsa Panth should not be evaluated standing on the premise of ancient time; it is a religion, which is in tune with modern thought. It is current. It should not be studied with ancient from of mind.

There is no restriction on women during her periods. Though there are many Khalsas who have not shed their own past affiliation and still practice certain restrictions. It only means our sociology is lagging behind, nothing more. It is an indicator of our failure, my failure to educate our own members. It is an abrasion in our living.

If one says that women is unclean during her periods it is because in the past she had not been provided with the means to remain clean; it is a matter of hygiene and not of spirituality. These days with what science and technology has provided, they remain clean. 

If some guy says women are unclean, then this man should also tell how he is clean when he is carrying all his shit in his intestine. Shit also is filth; no one wants to touch it. Why no religion talks about these unclean men. The reason is that it is the men who have designed the religion; they have never understood women.

See the arrogance of we men. We try to deprive women of her individuality; we say the word man is deemed to include woman also. This position of men cannot be justified; just see the spelling. It is the word women that include men not he other way round. The all-comprehensive word for both the genders can only be woman and not man. Further, if we move away from language and view again this interpretation, then we find that biologically all men were included in women before their birth and not the other way round. Yet we close our eyes to reality shut off our thinking and say the word men is deemed to include women; logic does not support such assertion.

Guru Sahib has said ‘Ek noor se sub jag upjaya, kaon bhalai kaon mandai’. The menstruation in women is the results of the same creation. We mortals do not cause it; it is a natural process. It cannot be the basis of discrimination of any kind. If it is practiced, it will be against the teachings of Gurbani. Being clean applies both to men and women alike and today’s science and technology provides products to remain clean. 

This arrogance is reflected in many of religious practices and social practices. Khalsa Panth does not recognise such discrimination; though in evolving Khalsa society, unfortunately, it exists.

Women should not be discriminated. They are the future of our Panth. They give us birth; they give us our ‘Samskaras’.

With love and respect for all.

Amarpal Singh

and

Well said. Veer Amarpal Ji has put it all very well. IN Gurmatt this type of "physical" so called impurity is not deemd attention worthy at all as it is a natural process.

And how is menstrual blood "dirty" or "unclean" anyway. It is the same as any other blood we all carry in our bodies..this is nature's way of a cycle of birth and blood needs to be shed to carry out this activity...but that doesnt make the blood dirty/unclean.

Secondly the Male chauvanists who promote this idea ( mosty the hinduised SANTS/BABAS/DERAWALLAHS who themsleves know Gurmatt very little and depend heavily on fairy tales/sakhis etc)..conveniently forget that many of these huge bellied "sants" themselves have PILES ( a condition due to too much sitting on ones backside)..and they carry "no protection" ( while every modern lady does)...and in piles too blood drips out..and that blood is definitely dirty..... and what about "gas" flatulance etc.

Sorry to be so blunt but i have no patience with these so called parcharaks of "gurbani" who totally ignore the fundamentals GURBANI sets out and promote their own pet ideas and fallacies in the from of Sikhi Parchaar. many a time such a "sant ji" has banned women paathis from participating in their Akhand paaths due to such outdated/wrong/totally ungurmatt beleifs. A SIKH WOMAN is entitled to do anything a SIKH man is entitled to do...Do Akahnd paath, sehaj paath, chaur sewa, be a memeber of the PUNJ PIYARAS,...NO QUESTION S asked. GURU JI said SO in His GURBANI.

Gyani Jarnail Singh

and

Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

das salutes the vews of Gyani Sahib and Amarpal Singh Ji,

If mensurated lady is not allowed in any Sikh function then it is just a cpoying of Brahmanical idea.As only in hindu temples such tabbo is in function.

In fact what comes out during period is discarded female egg.Infact all males are product of fusion of that egg with male's input.

Hating female with same is like hating our own body.

If Das gets such 'sant' (As Gyani ji Told) with pile then das will tell him to go for surgery.

Anyway das was only wondering that there are some Jathas in us who are more After Kachhera being ritualastically worn by female.

Das did talk to a missioary on this account.He told that female can wear safty pads under Kachhera and there is no tabbo.Das is interested to know that does anyone has obejection in that ?

Because by going with Kachhera only without safety pads may put female in embaaracing positionn in Sangat.So be it any bloddy Deradar with piles due to eating more then needed or not doing kirat(Labour) or any Sikh sister with mansuration there must be a good safety mechanism so that in Sangat there must not any emmbarracing situation.

Das is writing it in there as some ritualistics Jathas may prefer that nothing must be worn under Kachhera,This is rediculous.

Vijaydeep singh

 

 Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ki Fateh.

Veer Vijaydeep Singh Ji,

You are absolutley correct in questioning the ritualistic "insistence" on just kachhera..and "nothing" inside the kachhera. NO where is it stated that one must NOT wear anything ( like safety sanitory pads/etc) next to your body, ...and by doing so it violates the Rehat maryada...IMHO a menstruating lady can wear sanitory protection, a tight panties to keep it all in place and then and over that a kachhera can be worn..and Sikh rehat maryada will in no way be affected in any way. This is entirely LOGICAL. Anything or anyone that says contrary to this is being illogical and stubborn male chauvanist. Sikhi/Gurmatt is not that "weak" that it can be threatened by just a few drops of menstrual blood...HA HA YES this does "threaten" the MALE POLE POSITION of the Sant Babas who want the power to "dictate" maryada to all and sundry as and when they decide...that is WHY..they can prance around in PUBLIC with just kacheras under their big cholas ( NO PYJAMA)..but a Lady Sikh CANNOT do that as ( their naked legs will excite them !! I ask these hypocrites as to what type of sikhs are they that the mere sight of a lady's legs excites them in the Guru's darbar..I was flabbergasted to listen to a Tape of a Famous Baba Ji talking about this..he says" Ladies and Men dont sit mixed in the Darbar because an accidental touch of a lady's GODA may excite a man and impure thoughts will arise and simran will be interrupted..and he goes on to say that as for him being a sant baba and all that spirituality.. mere sight of a lady's legs makes him lose all concentration in kirtan etc..wah wah wah sikhi of these frauds )

This is the reason we must insist on GURBANI VICHAAR/LEARNING/STUDYING.... to dispell such misconceptions doubts wrong ideas being propogated in the name of Gurbani/Guurs/Gurmatt/Rehat etc. The more our youngsters learn Gurbani and Vichaar the more the LIGHT of GURBANI will dispell the veil of Darkness FALSEHOOD. Gurbani and Gurmatt are so LIBERAL/FREE of Falsehood/misconceptions/etc that Sikhi is the Best and easiest religion to follow.

Gyani Jarnail Singh

 

[CdnSikhGirl]

Looks like many Singhs actually DO support us after all... just not on this particular forum! 

[sukrit kaur]

First one somewhere clears that if a person is amritdhari,so whatever he is saying cannot be surely right,on other side if a non amritdhari giving his views  then he may be right.So,it depends upon spiritual kamai or spiritual vivek..

Dhan baba nand singh ji!!

 

[sukrit kaur]

 

  Quote

If some guy says women are unclean, then this man should also tell how he is clean when he is carrying all his shit in his intestine. Shit also is filth; no one wants to touch it.

 

Same questions were in my mind.yes what about fecal matter in rectum?? What about all chyme in stomach?? What about urine in urinary bladder??? Then that's too dirty associated with body..and same body is just close to Guru maharaj while doing paath.so shall we start doing dhotii asaan(dunno exact word) ,which rishiis used to do to clean their bowels before meditation??? 

Guru Nanak maharaj has cleared everything..

BTW  very well said veer ji!!

 

Edited June 7, 2015 by sukrit kaur

[paapiman]

First one somewhere clears that if a person is amritdhari,so whatever he is saying cannot be surely right,on other side if a non amritdhari giving his views  then he may be right.So,it depends upon spiritual kamai or spiritual vivek..

Dhan baba nand singh ji!!

 

​The above comment makes sense. In addition to that, it is also possible that a Hindu/Muslim/Non-Sikh's view might be better than that of a Sikh.

If everyone is given the right to express their opinions in a Gurudwara, it would result in chaos. Therefore, certain restrictions have to be placed.

Bhul chuk maaf

Edited June 7, 2015 by paapiman

[paapiman]

 

Same questions were in my mind.yes what about fecal matter in rectum?? What about all chyme in stomach?? What about urine in urine bladder??? Then that's too dirty associated with body..and same body is just close to Guru maharaj while doing paath.so shall we start doing dhotii asaan(dunno exact word) ,which rishiis used to do to clean their bowels before meditation??? 

Guru Nanak maharaj has cleared everything..

BTW  very well said veer ji!!

 

​One cannot compare matter, which is inside the body to the one, which is leaking out. This does not make sense.

Bhul chuk maaf

[sukrit kaur]

My closing statements:

First of all,it's TOTALLY wrong to talk to a Gyani/Gurmukh in the manner they did.To start shouting or yelling in A GURUDWARA in  the presence of SGGSJ is a total manmatt.

Second,To call cops (who were not sikhs even I dun think if they knew much about sikhi) is not a task of grace.

And whoever gave death threats must be punished by panj pyare there with consent of Gurudwara commitee and gyani ji.

And Yes it's their Respect for SGGSJ that they are giving so much importance to hygiene.And it's respect of opposite group too that they want to follow teachings of gurbani and Guru Nanak Dev Ji maharaj.so my conclusion is One should always give his/her full efforts to maintain proper hygiene /cleanliness for doing any kind of seva.It's applicabe for both genders.Not only WOMEN should be counted.Talking about menstruation(keeping guru nanak dev ji's teachings in mind),if a bibi doesnt feel well or she is feeling that she cant keep the hygiene upto the level it's needed,then she must abstain from doing seva.On same time,if she is quite well in maintainig proper hygiene with help of advanced products and she is not feeling as bad that can trouble her for maintaing hygiene,then she can do seva.If it's about sitting on maharaj tabeya,then she may carry her own sheet with proper thickness to guarantee proper cleanliness and I think it would show her utmost respect.

Another one,I think one should NEVER look upon anyone by his/her physical appearance.Being an amritdhari doesnt prove his superiority over others in sikh society.Everyone can meet Guru sahib.Guru sahib loves anyone by the beauty of his soul. No one is born amritdhari!!! There is a definite time for everyone to take amrit in their  lives.Very good karmas are needed for it.and we are not Brahmgyanis that we recognize anyone's spiritual beauty just from his face.So,NEVER UNDERMINE ANYONE!!So,if a person is non amritdhari then it doesnt prove his /her spiritual ignorance.and if a peraon is amritdhari then it does nt mean he is surely a spiritual person.JINNA NANAK GURMUKH "HIRDA SHUDHH" HAI  , HAR BHAGAT HAR LIJEY..

As doors of sache patsah are open for everyone,then let it open with due respect.HINDU TURK KOU KOI RAAFJI IMAAM SAAFI MANAS KEE JAAT SBAEY EKAY PEHCHANBO || KARTA KRIM SOI RAJAK RAHIM OHI DUSRO NAA BHED KOI BHOOL BHRAMM MANBO||

And a SIKH must learn to cope up with mona's ,roda's or patit's in a very understandable manner.and A SIKH must always try to listen a non sikh ,and should give his best to propagate the teachings of Guru Nanak Patsah and he should come out as an example for such people.

To merge with sachepatsah must be the ultimate goal of a sikh rather than to take sikhi in worldly terms or to make it a KATTARPANTHI religion.

AYA SAFAL TA HU KO GANIYE,JAAS RASAN HAR HAR JAS BHANIYE

And the last one but very important is ONE SIKH SHOULDNT TRY TO PUT OTHER SIKH DOWN ,this will lead him to false ego and ultimately from his true goal.

Gur fateh!!!

[paapiman]

It is very important that we don't loose our cool in such matters.

For example, if a Sikh woman wants to be part of the Panj Pyaray (which is against Gurmat), one must politely and humbly explain her the maryada, as set by the tenth master. If she does not agree to it, one should not loose his temper over it. There are far more important problems in the panth to tackle.

When dealing with patis/outcasts (monay, rhoday, sharabee, kababee, etc) face to face, try to explain them Gurmat in a polite manner. Don't be abusive and rude towards them.

On a personal level, stay kattar (firm in orthodox principles).

Humility and politeness are great virtues, promoted by Gurmat.

Bhul chuk maaf

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

Edited June 7, 2015 by paapiman

[sukrit kaur]

On a personal level, stay katar (firm in orthodox principles).

you mean Kattar?? Then why??

Okay!!! Yes yes!!! One should try to stay attached to his principles which are right,he must never lose his righteousness but he should also be ready to leave his wrong sides..

Gur fateh!!

 

Edited June 7, 2015 by sukrit kaur

[paapiman]

you mean Kattar?? Then why??

 

​Kattar meanes:

- Never do ninda of anyone

- Never say lies

- Follow Rehat maryada

- Never earn by dishonest means

- Don't make fun of others

- Don't engage in slander and libel

- Be polite and humble

- Respect other humans

- Don't be racist

- Don't look at other women with lustful eyes

- Don't make fun of other religions

- Don't get angry at small issues

- Don't brag about yourself

- Don't be greedy

- Don't forget nitnaym

- Always give daswandh

- Don't be jealous of anyone

- Share your food

- Don't praise yourself

- Don't expose anyone (if no greater good is present)

- Don't be overly attached to worldly things

- Don't listen to your own praises and feel good

- Always expose your bad deeds and talk only about the good deeds of others

- etc

Hope, it is clear now.

Bhul chuk maaf

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 7, 2015 by paapiman

[sukrit kaur]

​Kattar meanes:

- Never do ninda of anyone

- Never say lies

- Follow Rehat maryada

- Never earn by dishonest means

- Don't make fun of others

- Don't engage in slander and libel

- Be polite and humble

- Respect other humans

- Don't be racist

- Don't look at other women with lustful eyes

- Don't make fun of other religions

- Don't get angry at small issues

- Don't brag about yourself

- Don't be greedy

- Don't forget nitnaym

- Always give daswandh

- Don't be jealous of anyone

- Share your food

- Don't praise yourself

- Don't expose anyone (if no greater good is present)

- Don't be overly attached to worldly things

- Don't listen to your own praises and feel good

- Always expose your bad deeds and talk only about the good deeds of others

- etc

Hope, it is clear now.

Bhul chuk maaf

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

 

 

 

 

 

Yes!!! I just edited the post .....got it just right back!!

Yes!! Exactly!!

Gur fateh!!

[paapiman]

This guest sounds a lot like Satkiran eh

hahahaha...........seems like you are scared of her.....hahaha

[SAadmin]

Can we close this topic now?

[CdnSikhGirl]

It is very important that we don't loose our cool in such matters.

For example, if a Sikh woman wants to be part of the Panj Pyaray (which is against Gurmat), one must politely and humbly explain her the maryada, as set by the tenth master. If she does not agree to it, one should not loose his temper over it. There are far more important problems in the panth to tackle.

Bhul chuk maaf

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

​Actually its only against certain sects Gurmat.  If a Bibi wants to be part of Panj Pyaray there is actually NOTHING in Gurbani or otherwise that prevents it.  Even in the so-called Gurmat Rehet Maryada itself, the use of the word 'Singh' denotes both Singh and Singhni just as the word Lion means Lion and Lioness.  Because every seva in the so-called GRM is mentioned 'Singh' yet both do other seva as some have pointed out.  So that is not excuse.  Also, absence of proof is not proof of absence... its only SOME Sikh's opinion that Guru Ji meant to discriminate women.  There is no proof.  Also, majority of panth agrees that women can be part of Panj Pyaras.  So if she wants to,  instead of trying to tell her 'nope no girls allowed' just point her to somewhere that follows the PANTHIC rehet maryada... the Sikh Rehet Maryada, the ONLY Rehet Maryada accepted by Akal Takht!  What Damdami Taksal does should not be forced down the throats of the rest of the panth.  They are sect only.  

So if a Sikh woman wants to follow GURBANI, and be seen with a single eye of equality, and participate in Panj Pyaras, which is NOT against Gurmat (outside of DDT etc) then she can do so RIGHTFULLY anywhere that follows Sikh Rehet Maryada.  So don't speak as if GRM is the only RM and that everyone should follow it.  

 

Edited June 7, 2015 by Satkirin_Kaur

[paapiman]

Can we close this topic now?

​Bro, go ahead and close it, if you want.

Waheguru jee kaa Khalsa

Waheguru jee kee Fateh

[paapiman]

 There is no proof.  Also, majority of panth agrees that women can be part of Panj Pyaras.  So if she wants to,  instead of trying to tell her 'nope no girls allowed' just point her to somewhere that follows the PANTHIC rehet maryada... the Sikh Rehet Maryada, the ONLY Rehet Maryada accepted by Akal Takht!  What Damdami Taksal does should not be forced down the throats of the rest of the panth.  They are sect only.  

I am not a scholar, so I am not aware of all the problems in the so-called SRM. Gender equality is one of them. I will try to figure out the details from a scholar and post it.

As of now, Sikhs have no one RM.

Bhul chuk maaf

[Guest]

​Please stop referring to Sikh Rehet Maryada as the 'so-called SRM' in every post, because it very overtly shows purposeful and abhorrent disrespect and this is very wrong - you should be ashamed for doing it, since this is whether you like it or not, it is panthic decision that was arrived at over years by literally hundreds of Sikhs from ALL backgrounds. 

If you do not follow SRM yourself then fine, follow whatever jatha you want but do not show such overt and abhorrent disrespect. It's very juvenile behaviour. You would be (and have been) the first to jump on anyone who criticizes your Rehet Maryada, but then you do this thing?  You are very juvenile person! 

​I agree.